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Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: SysAdmin on September 04, 2013, 12:12:42 AM
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http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows-phone/22748/did-nokia-blackmail-microsoft-sale-threatening-abandon-windows-phone
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Golly! It's almost like Microsoft's incredibly-late-to-the-party efforts to break into the mobile market have been completely futile or something!
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Very very sad news, from now my interest in mobile phones will be much lower.
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They're really doubling down on their botched strategy, aren't they? Don't these people have brains?
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Microsoft is NOT "Visionary", they're "Reactionary" (that may not be a proper term, but it's close enough)
and slow too...
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They're really doubling down on their botched strategy, aren't they? Don't these people have brains?
I don't think they actually have much choice, what else are they going to do....give up on mobile?
MS aren't really in that bad a position, with RIM dying quickly they should be able to become a firm 3rd choice in the smart-phone and tablet market. The mobile market is very important to them because people aren't very interested in buying desktops these days and the server market is moving to cloud based solutions.
My take on the current mobile market:
Apple: Looks like they are running out of ideas with yet another 'refresh' of the iPhone coming out on the 10th (along with some cheap-and-nasty looking plastic phones), could start to lose a lot of market share.
Android: It looks like Google want to take control of Android more by making their own 'reference' devices, this may force other manufactures like Samsung to leave Android behind.
WinPhone: We'll have to wait and see, could see some solid growth in the next few years though (obviously depending on what happens in the Android/Apple space).
RIM: DOA
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Android: It looks like Google want to take control of Android more by making their own 'reference' devices, this may force other manufactures like Samsung to leave Android behind.
Android is becoming as bad as the old "one os for each model of phone" that it replaced.
Currently I'm thinking my next phone will be firefox or windows.
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Microsoft is NOT "Visionary", they're "Reactionary" (that may not be a proper term, but it's close enough)
and slow too...
It's definitely an appropriate term.
Microsoft is not without vision or visionary people. The problem is in execution.
I once read an excellent article about how things work in the auto industry; The designers would come up with a cool visionary design for the next model of a car, then the industrial designers would compromise that vision with a whole bunch of adjustments to fit within the ISO specs, then the engineering team would further compromise the original vision by adapting it to the limitations of the existing fabrication, then the business people would compromise it even further to make sure there is spare parts compatibility and align with the sales targets.
In the end what ends up rolling off the production line is a far cry from what the visionary design intended. In many companies, including Microsoft, this same process occurs and affects delivery.
A truly innovative company challenges standards and industry norms, invents new fabrication systems, and puts the consumer first. And they do all this in concert with operational realities. Nokia is not one of these companies, well it hasn't been for a very long time. Apologies to the Finnish folk, but Nokia may as well be Microsoft.
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At least they can now make boots while their PC sales head south....
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I don't think they actually have much choice, what else are they going to do....give up on mobile?
MS aren't really in that bad a position, with RIM dying quickly they should be able to become a firm 3rd choice in the smart-phone and tablet market. The mobile market is very important to them because people aren't very interested in buying desktops these days and the server market is moving to cloud based solutions.
Hmm, I guess I was thinking of "they" as Nokia. Before they got in bed with Microsoft, Nokia was struggling in the smartphone market, but they still dominated the low-end segment. When Nokia first started partnering with Microsoft, they effectively surrendered the entire low-end market and threw away all the investment (and engineering talent) they had put into their in-house smartphones. And the thing they replaced it all with (Windows Phone) was itself floundering in the market. Now they're surrendering their entire phone business to Microsoft. Will they have anything left once this is over? Microsoft could at least do them the courtesy of acquiring the whole company instead of just leaving a mangled corpse for the patent trolls to carve up.
I realize this deal gives Microsoft a more direct line into the phone market, but I think they'll have better luck improving their sales by dumping Windows 8. The phone should complement the desktop. Maybe the phone should even be the desktop. But the desktop should not be the phone, which is what they are currently pushing.
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In the end what ends up rolling off the production line is a far cry from what the visionary design intended. In many companies, including Microsoft, this same process occurs and affects delivery.
Yep it's funny, it happens a lot with motorbikes too.
Check this out.
Original B-King concept bike (http://www.gizmag.com/go/1287/)
The production model (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/235/1078/Motorcycle-Article/2008-Suzuki-B-King-Bike-Test.aspx)
Whereas the original concept looked awesome the production model was actually a bit of a donkey.
Are we off topic yet?
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I don't think they actually have much choice, what else are they going to do....give up on mobile?
You know what? Yeah. Yeah, they should. Because they've been banging their heads against the wall trying to make it in the mobile computing market since 1996, and in that time the most you can say is that they had some moderate success with Windows CE back when "pocket PCs" were still a thing and every PDA/phone OS was horrible so it didn't really matter that CE was horrible too. But they missed the boat on modern smartphones, they missed the boat on tablets, and the best they've been able to achieve in that space is Windows "well, it's pretty okay" Phone 7/8, which still hasn't even come close to touching iOS's market presence, let alone Android's.
CE is dead. Nobody wants Windows Phone. They botched the Surface line and nobody cares about it anyway. And all the while they've been alienating their real customer base trying to force themselves into the mobile market by trying to make all their desktop/laptop users use an OS designed for tablets on the theory that this will get them to replace their PCs with tablets. Enough of this nonsense. They need to throw in the towel on this, go back to focusing on their strengths, and let the mobile market sort itself out, not double down on their flailing and failing attempts to be a third-place also-ran in a market they long since missed their chance at.
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For all I know they were colluding for three years, just to set up the Microsoft buy.
I'm not impressed with how the market is going. They are all going for vendor lock-in and plenty of gimping e.g. (no apps on memory cards).
I have no intention of becoming reliant on a smartphone for internet access.
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7 million phones sold in one quarter isn't anything to sneeze at, John. They are number three in the market, and number one in Latin America. You make it sound like Nokia and MS are sitting on street corners in cities all over the world begging people to take W8 phones for free and people aren't taking them, while the independent, confirmed sales figures say otherwise. Have you tried a Windows Phone? A Windows Phone 8... Not a 5 year old Treo running Windows Mobile 6. At a reported $10 license fee for each handset sold, MS isn't exactly losing money on Win Phone.
I honestly think most people would really like the Nokia 1020 if they tried it.
If I wasn't so entrenched in the Android world right now I'd gladly give one a shot. I used one recently and was quite impressed at how snappy it was, and the 41 MP camera in the 1020 is just great.
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The real news is the disappearance of Nokia in the world of mobile phones not this microsoft s h i t
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You're right, Kickstart - on a global scale, Nokia was a major player in the mobile market for years, especially in Europe.
Within North America, we mainly only ever saw Nokia feature phones. Was very few, if any - carriers that offered subsidized Nokia smartphones, which forced North Americans to pay $800 for unlocked Nokia smartphones if we wanted them, so they never were widespread here. IIRC, I paid well over $700 for my unlocked N95 in 2007 or so.
I had a N95 and a 9300, and still have a Nokia 770 Tablet - best hardware in the industry came from Nokia, imo.
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It's "funny" how quick people are to write off something that is a relatively new market.
We're only at the dawn of the mobile age and there's plenty of twists and turns to play out yet.
The original XBox was also the 3rd player in a market, but with time MS gained some pretty decent traction. Despite the (amusing) cries of many claiming MS are a dying entity they still have the money to have a decent crack at becoming a real player in the mobile market.
Personally I expect many ups and downs for all players over the next few years.
History has shown how quickly things can change in the IT world and phones will be no excepton.
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@fishy_fiz
The mobile market is incredibly different to the console market, though.
The console market is two or three firms competing by releasing major upgrades every 5 years or so. Each step is a large technological step which basically wipes the slate clean each time.
The mobile market, on the other hand, has more players and also evolves. A new phone comes out every 5 days rather than 5 years, so each generation affects the last in a way that doesn't happen in the console market. The result of this is that it will be much harder for Microsoft to take a significant market share like it did in the console wars.
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It was an epic fail for Nokia to miss out so blatantly on the entire smart phone revolution (and please don't say things like "but Nokia had their 'Communicator' a decade before it all started" — that kind of products is *not* related). If it can't be iOS (which it of course can't, not if you aren't Apple), then at least it has to be Android. With the whole infra structure of app stores etc connected to it of course. There is no third. Certainly not Symbian. And does anyone really want Microsoft's solution? Sales figures this far has said clearly "no", and for Nokia in particular, the newest sales figures for "Lumia" is rumored to be catastrophic. It will be very difficult for them to enter a market that has existed for many years that is completely occupied and dominated by iOS and Android.
Nokia is making the right decision to cut the phone part of the company loose and sell it off to MS. Nokia is still very strong in other segments, and this will remove a considerable risk and bring stability to what's left, and the cash input should be more than welcome and enable investments to further strengthen their positions on the markets they are still on.
Microsoft is going south though. PC sales in general is dropping through the floor, Windows sales are catastrophic. They are going all-in on the mobile sector with phones and tablets, but to be honest it's not going too well there either. Too little, too late. Microsoft in 10 years (or 5 years even) isn't going to be what it is today, or what it was 10 years ago.
This is the fall of the old giants.
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No more free updates for Nokia Maps on my E72 I guess :(.
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No more free updates for Nokia Maps on my E72 I guess :(.
Actually, I don't think that Nokia Maps was included in the MS deal...?
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You're all forgetting what really killed Nokia, and it happened a long time ago.......
[youtube]GJqm17etOSU[/youtube]
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Funny enough the N-Gauge was invloved in both the rise and fall of Nokia.
Not entirely unlike the amiga the early models were pretty darn successful and impressive for their day to a point that there was a shedload of variations, none of them particularly enhancing it while the competitiors caught up and surpassed it.
I quite liked Pandamonium though (screenshot) :)
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V***u. :|
Also, as one trying to get electronics and stuff from somewhat local companies, this makes things difficult. I really don't want a Lumigon. :D
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@novacoder
I dont know how is the situation on australia but here the N-Gage and N-Gage QD were not any success but also a failure to kill Nokia.
@odin
Nokia maps are still from Nokia, but i dont know is the support to Nokia phones continues after this, nice phone the E72 =)
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Aye, the E72 is nice but I curse the thing often for its slowness. In a way it is good that Symbian has been put out of its misery and buried.
Ah yes the NGage :D. At least it created a funny meme on the interwebs for a while.
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Aye, the E72 is nice but I curse the thing often for its slowness. In a way it is good that Symbian has been put out of its misery and buried.
I think the pre-Elop strategy of getting all the Symbian coders to develop for Qt on Symbian and then migrate to Qt on Meego was a great idea.
It might even have saved them but we'll never know. :(
RIP Nokia.
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The latest nokia phones with symbian belle (500, 700,701, 808) are faster than many android phones and symbian belle ft2 too, symbian isnt just a 7650, n-gage or N70 by example.
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The latest nokia phones with symbian belle (500, 700,701, 808) are faster than many android phones and symbian belle ft2 too, symbian isnt just a 7650, n-gage or N70 by example.
I loved my N80 and my Black N95-8GB phones, wonderful devices and I could do pretty everything I do with the Android phones I've had over the last 4 years.
Here's hoping that Jolla is succesful and gets bought by Nokia and transformed into a new Nokia phone divison to compete with MS. :)
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Im thinking in Jolla too, lets pray for it or some more options :)
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I loved my N80 and my Black N95-8GB phones, wonderful devices and I could do pretty everything I do with the Android phones I've had over the last 4 years.
Here's hoping that Jolla is succesful and gets bought by Nokia and transformed into a new Nokia phone divison to compete with MS. :)
It's funny you should say that, I just said that to my brother yesterday in an email. I suggested Nokia could use the billions from Microsoft to buy Jolla.
No matter, I will be buying a Jolla as soon as it comes out to replace my still in use N95. It will be my first non Nokia, though really it is Nokia in spirit.
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It's funny you should say that, I just said that to my brother yesterday in an email. I suggested Nokia could use the billions from Microsoft to buy Jolla.
Oh that would make me laugh so much! :D
No matter, I will be buying a Jolla as soon as it comes out to replace my still in use N95. It will be my first non Nokia, though really it is Nokia in spirit.
I'm due an upgrade in a couple of weeks as my contract is nearly up. I thinking of just taking a SIM only deal and putting the money saved each month away until i've got enough to buy a Jolla phone.
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I pre-ordered a Jolla phone :D
So in reading more about this deal (I've been a Nokia fan since my N900, and I bought the doomed before birth N9, which I still use as my main phone).
They bought up the phone making part of Nokia, but all the R&D (Advanced technologies, I believe is what it was referred to as) is still Nokia, along with the Patents that were licensed to MS for 2.x Billion (the other 5billion was for the purchase of their phone division).
So part of the deal is that Nokia can't make Nokia branded phones until 2016. But that gives a few years to see how Jolla pans out..
I kind of think some of the insiders in Nokia were kind of planning this all along, sort of a "Hey, let's test to see if we can be different enough and succeed with Windows phone, and if not, let's have a plan B." There was a supposed plan B for a while, and then Jolla was announced and then Plan B was "there is no plan B, they're screwed!"
Oh, and an earlier post said that there were 7 million phones sold in a quarter, and it's not like Nokia were standing on the corner giving them away for free... actually they practically were! I am pretty sure for a while there you could get an AT&T contract for 20 bucks and get a Lumia.
Sad bit is, S40 (low end), Symbian (low/mid end), Maemo/MeeGo (high end) probably would have worked out very well if they'd waited one more year with Qt merging all the platforms.
The bull*?#@**?#@**?#@**?#@* that Elop was feeding people that "Oh, it's all about Ecosystem!" Nokia had a larger 'App' store than Apple did for a rather long time.
The only real reason that iOS and Android took off is all of a sudden people were impressed with touch screens, and getting the Nokia smartphones to work well with touch took a bit too long.
That and as already mentioned Nokia presence in the USA was almost nil, especially Symbian phones. I only ever saw ONE Symbian phone on T-Mobile, and I almost bought one to learn Qt for, but it was a lower end, even for Symbian. One other reason I think Symbian died of is a simple 'Spec War' issue, where they advertised a lower resolution screen than all the other phones coming out.
Funny thing is, newer versions of Symbian (from what I'd read, hadn't ever used one) were VERY battery efficient and fast even on low end hardware. The fact that 'modern' smart phones need to be charged every other day at the latest, is just depressing when some of the earlier ones would last at least a week.
I'm very much looking forward to my Jolla phone. In fact, I think tomorrow I'll wear my Jolla T-Shirt to work. :D
As an off topic rant, when I first started getting my own phones, I bought Motorola because of the processors they made for the Atari ST/Amiga. My first phone I actually used a lot was a Motorola RAZR2, (which I rooted) then a Motorola Cliq, and I hated Android (1.6 at the time) so much, I only had it for about a month and a half, before I had found the Nokia N900 had come out. Holy crap that phone is AWESOME.
Check this out; http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142&highlight=neo900
I very much want one...
slaapliedje
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Nokia has been sinking for a long time! Microsoft just rescued them and probably saved them self for a while..
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I just have to add this;
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1372208&postcount=21
slaapliedje
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http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows-phone/22817/nokias-android-plans-forced-microsoft-72-billion-buyout
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http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows-phone/22817/nokias-android-plans-forced-microsoft-72-billion-buyout
True or not, it's interesting to read.
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A $7.2 billion buyout in order to keep the one halfway important Windows Phone vendor from jumping ship. That's hilarious :D