Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: takemehomegrandma on August 21, 2013, 09:40:45 AM
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Let's keep perspective on this, please. Putting in a section for AmigaOs or Amiga OS or MorphOS or AROS isn't going to make Baby $deity cry
As long you include all flavours I'm fine with it
Agree with Blizz there - going to include one, make sure the rest of the comparable NG systems are covered.
Well, in that thread people were called trolls, people were called narrow minded because they felt it to be wrong to mix common commodity HW with true Amiga HW. The naivety shown about the intentions by some in that thread was hilarious. Well, theoretical discussions like the quotes above aside — what systems will *really* qualify? Not in discussions on amiga.org, but in cold reality, according to the site admin?
bitman: Current BBoAH considerations is:
Sam: Custom HW, runs AmigaOS natively (OS4)
X1000: Has name "Amiga", Custom HW, runs AmigaOS natively (OS4)
Pegasos: Custom HW, Runs AmigaOS natively (OS4)
AmigaOne 500: Has name "Amiga", Custom HW, runs AmigaOS natively (OS4)
MiniMig: Custom HW, Runs AmigaOS natively (Amiga OS)
Running AmigaOS natively - is without host OS and not under emulation requiring a host OS.
With AmigaOS I mean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS (Amiga OS 1.0-3.9, plus OS4)
blizz1220: So IMica AresOne Efika Pegasos and other "custom" hardware would be accepted? Or would only AmigaOS 4 hardware be accepted to enter the site ?
bitman: I did not mention Amiga OS 4 specifically - if a piece of custom hardware runs AmigaOS (any version) natively, I think it would qualify.
blizz1220: Maybe "custom hardware" should be replaced by "dedicated hardware" as to include Aros and Morphos machines ?
bitman: I personally don't see any connection between Aros/MorphOS and AmigaOS other than API compatability.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38055&forum=2&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0
So in the end it was/becomes nothing else than what many of us predicted from the beginning — some kind of stunt in favor of OS4, to make it and its HW a little more "teh true!!1!" compared to the other NG alternatives, to blur the line between "Commodore Amiga" and "NG" a little more, but only regarding OS4, they are very explicit about that! Vox (etc) can now say, with a little more weight behind their words than before, that "I'm teh reel!!1! you are not!!1!", and the Amiga Apartheid has taken one more step in the wrong direction. Goal reached, cased closed. And thread locked.
:rolleyes:
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Well, in that thread people were called trolls, people were called narrow minded because they felt it to be wrong to mix common commodity HW with true Amiga HW. The naivety shown about the intentions by some in that thread was hilarious. Well, theoretical discussions like the quotes above aside — what systems will *really* qualify? Not in discussions on amiga.org, but in cold reality, according to the site admin?
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38055&forum=2&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0
So in the end it was/becomes nothing else than what many of us predicted from the beginning — some kind of stunt in favor of OS4, to make it and its HW a little more "teh true!!1!" compared to the other NG alternatives, to blur the line between "Commodore Amiga" and "NG" a little more, but only regarding OS4, they are very explicit about that! Vox (etc) can now say, with a little more weight behind their words than before, that "I'm teh reel!!1! you are not!!1!", and the Amiga Apartheid has taken one more step in the wrong direction. Goal reached, cased closed. And thread locked.
:rolleyes:
My personal opinion is that all community driven project deserve entry - including Efika, Pegasos 1, as far as iMica and AresOne. But I am not a BBOH maintaner, and line was put just to OS4 compatibile systems. I don`t feel being anymore Amigan then MorphOS or AROS user. AROS only makes it tricky since its extremely portable (like the phone Nicolas presented).
Website is dedicated to hardware that was made to run AmigaOS and any refreshment is good. Hope more boards will find the way to BBOAH including FPGA Arcade.
My idea is to show that post Commodore evolution did happen thanks to enthusiastic companies and individuals, no supermacy there.
We will see will maintainer stretch his definition - however I must say that no MorphOS user showed interest (in fact attacked the idea at all) to make an Pegasos or Efika entry. I cannot do it, simply because I don`t have the board, and and BBOAH is bit more then just puting the hardware info - real high res pictures, manuals etc.
Maybe a desire to make an entry would make him change the mind,
not just negativity.
As in nice modern roots tune - Positive Action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AIZEh3hzpQ
As usual, my personal corner is that CUSA Amiga Mini doesn`t belong there as no Amiga related OS was supplied with it. Its a matter of concept, not name. As well as I do know only EdPonPon that has one - I believe not even a Dammy has one :-)
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@Vox
Not only that the CUSA Amiga Mini did not even include an emulator or anyway to run any version of Amiga OS at all. It was a true slap a name on a PC and see if it sells. I'm glad it's gone for good. No need for the confusion and what a lazy way to sell a fake Amiga!
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Well, in that thread people were called trolls, people were called narrow minded because they felt it to be wrong to mix common commodity HW with true Amiga HW. The naivety shown about the intentions by some in that thread was hilarious. Well, theoretical discussions like the quotes above aside — what systems will *really* qualify? Not in discussions on amiga.org, but in cold reality, according to the site admin?
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38055&forum=2&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0
So in the end it was/becomes nothing else than what many of us predicted from the beginning — some kind of stunt in favor of OS4, to make it and its HW a little more "teh true!!1!" compared to the other NG alternatives, to blur the line between "Commodore Amiga" and "NG" a little more, but only regarding OS4, they are very explicit about that! Vox (etc) can now say, with a little more weight behind their words than before, that "I'm teh reel!!1! you are not!!1!", and the Amiga Apartheid has taken one more step in the wrong direction. Goal reached, cased closed. And thread locked.
:rolleyes:
But but but t3h reel, you nasty troll!
The most amusing thing to me is that this fork of BBOAH by the true believers doesn't even work with Amiga web browsers.
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But but but t3h reel, you nasty troll!
The most amusing thing to me is that this fork of BBOAH by the true believers doesn't even work with Amiga web browsers.
There is no supermacism in such position. There is a slight adventage of AmigaOS name, but people should know better.
If people think (as I do) dedicated AROS and MorphOS boards do deserve an entry, why not first trying to make one? That is a positive way of pressuring, instead of seeing "supermacism" and "conspiracies" everywhere.
Web browsers for Amiga will improve, hopefully. It does work in OWB-MUI if that is the answer, but that is not an Classic browser (which is only Amiga for you?)
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@Vox
Not only that the CUSA Amiga Mini did not even include an emulator or anyway to run any version of Amiga OS at all. It was a true slap a name on a PC and see if it sells. I'm glad it's gone for good. No need for the confusion and what a lazy way to sell a fake Amiga!
It included UAE :P
And besides everyone know the real way to sell a fake Amiga is to include a fake Amigaos sheesh. What I do personally is I set this to launch on startup. http://www.chiptune.com/ . :)
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Blah blah, repeat BS over and over again
That forked OS4 fanatic site doesn't even work with Odyssey.
Oh and there is no advantage to the name, the antics of the companies involved and of the cheerleaders over the last 13 years have made it a laughing stock.
I own the same Trademark in the very country you live in, your X1000 and it's OS infringe on my rights. Perhaps I should contact the relevant authorities and have it stopped at customs and denied entry.
Maybe I will, maybe I won't.
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Blah blah, repeat BS over and over again
That forked OS4 fanatic site doesn't even work with Odyssey.
Oh and there is no advantage to the name, the antics of the companies involved and of the cheerleaders over the last 13 years have made it a laughing stock.
I own the same Trademark in the very country you live in, your X1000 and it's OS infringe on my rights. Perhaps I should contact the relevant authorities and have it stopped at customs and denied entry.
Maybe I will, maybe I won't.
Surely, extremely positive attitude, serves the purpose.
However, I keep my rights to address the Amiga Kraljevo in any case :-)
http://www.amiga.rs/
They could do something really constructive.
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Surely, extremely positive attitude, serves the purpose.
However, I keep my rights to address the Amiga Kraljevo in any case :-)
http://www.amiga.rs/
They could do something really constructive.
Let's follow the lead of the western rights holders.
I feel a lawsuit brewing between Commodore Amiga Iran and Amiga Srpska. Let's hope it drags on for years and destroys the brand name even further.
It would be a fitting tribute.
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stunt in favor of OS4, to make it and its HW a little more "teh true!!1!" compared to the other NG alternatives
Nobody has to make it "a little more the true", it actually is.
That doesn't mean it should be in the Amiga hardware book, of course. But what we really don't need is another thread where you're discussing why your god has much bigger genitals than ours.
Amiga Apartheid
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
You really miss the old flamewars, I take it.
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Just let it go GrandMa.
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@Vox
Not only that the CUSA Amiga Mini did not even include an emulator or anyway to run any version of Amiga OS at all. It was a true slap a name on a PC and see if it sells. I'm glad it's gone for good. No need for the confusion and what a lazy way to sell a fake Amiga!
While I agree with your assesment of CUSA (They were the entire reason I registered Commodore Amiga in Iran "for the lolz"), they did have a genuine legal right to use the trademark that they paid for in good faith.
They didn't try to steal the trademark by nefarious means or court cases.
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Nobody has to make it "a little more the true", it actually is.
It is not. Get over it, Amiga, is long dead since the nineties.
Today we have new Amiga-like systems, which some are really cool, and try to follow what they believe would nowadays be the Amiga concept. But they are not "the real Amiga thing" just because a bunch of former software developers, rabid users, and marketing people wish to. And it is nothing wrong or devious of assuming some computer is Amiga-like, it is great to have them, and shows the strong influence the Amiga had in the computing world, despite the fact it died at a young age :)
It is always a nice thing to call things by their actual name.
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not just negativity
Commodity PC motherboards without a single trace of Amiga HW inside of it, albeit with PPC CPU and built in much smaller volumes, are now being added to that list of real Amiga hardware, just as you wanted. And of course *ONLY* those who runs OS4! Which is very "positive" indeed! None of the other NG systems that *also* runs on commodity HW (just like OS4), no, they are *explicitly singled out*, since there isn't "any connection between Aros/MorphOS and AmigaOS". They aren't "teh reel!!1!", it's as simple as that! It's there, in black on white! I just knew that the "MorphOS and AROS isn't related to Amiga" card would be played out, some people never misses an opportunity like this, and this has been a very "positive" experience indeed Vox!
:rolleyes:
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How about Mac Mini?
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Commodity PC motherboards without a single trace of Amiga HW inside of it, albeit with PPC CPU and built in much smaller volumes, are now being added to that list of real Amiga hardware, just as you wanted. And of course *ONLY* those who runs OS4! Which is very "positive" indeed! None of the other NG systems that *also* runs on commodity HW (just like OS4), no, they are *explicitly singled out*, since there isn't "any connection between Aros/MorphOS and AmigaOS". They aren't "teh reel!!1!", it's as simple as that! It's there, in black on white! I just knew that the "MorphOS and AROS isn't related to Amiga" card would be played out, some people never misses an opportunity like this, and this has been a very "positive" experience indeed Vox!
:rolleyes:
Like I said before and original question included MorphOS too, I do believe at least Peg and Efika deserve the same. I don`t share the criteria of only OS4 offered.
Yes, this has been "very positive" experience for me.
Never again should I publicly ask for help here.
On having no HW connection to old Amiga, I am intersted to hear what people expected - AGA chipset maybe or Zorro bus?
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How about Mac Mini?
Yes indeed! That one is way more "custom HW" than any of the "new entries" on that list, it even has its own custom motherboard form factor instead of the standard ATX/MicroATX/ITX/etc, it's built using a custom design (by Apple) "Intrepid" NorthBridge controller, etc.
Heck, it even boots OS4!
:lol:
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Heck, it even boots OS4!
:lol:
I've been waiting all day for someone to mention that. lol
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Yes, this has been "very positive" experience for me.
Never doubted it.
On having no HW connection to old Amiga, I am intersted to hear what people expected - AGA chipset maybe or Zorro bus?
You still don't get it, despite what a gazillion of people has told you already on this site, on AW.net and on moobunny. So I won't bother again. It's not possible to get through to you, you aren't listening.
Well, now that we have been reminded again that MorphOS and AROS has no connection to Amiga OS other than the API and that none of its HW should be on the same list as OS4 hardware for this reason — let's talk about cooperation! Wouldn't it be cool if the MorphOS developers and the AROS developers could join forces with OS4 to create OS5? Wasn't it you who said that?
:lol:
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Never doubted it.
You still don't get it, despite what a gazillion of people has told you already on this site, on AW.net and on moobunny. So I won't bother again. It's not possible to get through to you, you aren't listening.
Well, now that we have been reminded again that MorphOS and AROS has no connection to Amiga OS other than the API and that none of its HW should be on the same list as OS4 hardware for this reason — let's talk about cooperation! Wouldn't it be cool if the MorphOS developers and the AROS developers could join forces with OS4 to create OS5? Wasn't it you who said that?
:lol:
From a technology point of view, does OS4 have anything that MorphOS or AROS even need?
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It is always a nice thing to call things by their actual name.
Yeah, that's right. No one calls a Ford a Mitsubishi. These people don't realize the mess we'd be in if everyone just started calling things whatever they wanted.
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Well, now that we have been reminded again that MorphOS and AROS has no connection to Amiga OS other than the API and that none of its HW should be on the same list as OS4 hardware for this reason
Bad reason indeed. A better reason is perhaps that PC and Mac hardware don't belong on an Amiga page, because PCs and Macs aren't related to the Amiga. Saying Aros and MorphOS have nothing to do with Amiga is of course plain nonsense.
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Bad reason indeed. A better reason is perhaps that PC and Mac hardware don't belong on an Amiga page, because PCs and Macs aren't related to the Amiga. Saying Aros and MorphOS have nothing to do with Amiga is of course plain nonsense.
Should 3DFX Voodoo Cards and ATI Radeons be on an Amiga hardware page? Creative Labs Soundblaster Cards?
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You still don't get it, despite what a gazillion of people has told you already on this site, on AW.net and on moobunny. So I won't bother again. It's not possible to get through to you, you aren't listening.
Now your catching on. :)
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Never doubted it.
You still don't get it, despite what a gazillion of people has told you already on this site, on AW.net and on moobunny. So I won't bother again. It's not possible to get through to you, you aren't listening.
:lol:
I just don`t agree with you as to me AmigaNG hardware is also new Amiga hardware. Its just not Classic hardware, but my definition of Amiga is broader.
Well, now that we have been reminded again that MorphOS and AROS has no connection to Amiga OS other than the API and that none of its HW should be on the same list as OS4 hardware for this reason — let's talk about cooperation! Wouldn't it be cool if the MorphOS developers and the AROS developers could join forces with OS4 to create OS5? Wasn't it you who said that?
These are my words, but it wasn`t me who said that MOS and AROS had no connection to AOS. So you are blaming me for something, I haven`t told.
However, you are right about one thing - I have no dream of reuniting people and OSs anymore, its obvious not even common problems and heritage doesn`t help at all.
Its all thank you folks for your attention. Its not my purpose to be Moo star.
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my definition of Amiga is broader.
then go and make your own site on the subject of your amiga definitions instead bothering us with it. just go away and leave us alone, will you?
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It is not. Get over it, Amiga, is long dead since the nineties.
What's that got to do with anything I said? I refuted the claim that AmigaOS 4 is "more officially Amiga" only in the eyes of some religious zealots - it is actually more official than its 'competitors'.
That doesn't mean it's a better product, or still relevant or whatever else. It just means it's more official. And if that's really important to somebody, so be it.
It is always a nice thing to call things by their actual name.
Exactly, which is why there's one official AmigaOS and two clones - which are collectively referred to as "the Amiga systems" on Amiga-News.de, similar to "the Unix systems" which is also a family of more or less compatible operating systems, some official, some clones.
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As far as I am concerned, the BBoAH should really only contain information about hardware built specifically for the original Amiga machines. So, while info about a particular PCI expansion bus is useful, I don't feel there's any value in including information about generic PCI cards you'd put in there. Possible exceptions to that rule being perhaps lists of known compatible devices.
Regarding "NG", it's a bit muddier. Nobody can seriously claim that OS4, MorphOS and AROS aren't anything to do with the Amiga (though many try), so in my view it's fair to include information about hardware purpose-built to run these operating systems. So stuff like the A1, Pegasos, Efika, Sam and so forth are all valid entries.
Of course, generic PC's and PPC based macs are as much commodity hardware as anything else, so I don't feel there's a need to include them because as with vanilla PCI cards, it's all already out there. However, it would certainly be useful to include information about, for example, which specific models are supported. If you want a fully supported MorphOS, AROS or Amithlon box, it would be an ideal resource to check.
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As far as I am concerned, the BBoAH should really only contain information about hardware built specifically for the original Amiga machines. So, while info about a particular PCI expansion bus is useful, I don't feel there's any value in including information about generic PCI cards you'd put in there. Possible exceptions to that rule being perhaps lists of known compatible devices.
Regarding "NG", it's a bit muddier. Nobody can seriously claim that OS4, MorphOS and AROS aren't anything to do with the Amiga (though many try),
For me it's not that these three OS's have nothing to do with the Amiga but that the hardware they run on (With the exception of those machines with Phase5 accelerators and AROS 68k builds) are not Amigas, therefore said hardware doesn't belong on a site that is supposed to be documenting Amiga specific hardware.
so in my view it's fair to include information about hardware purpose-built to run these operating systems. So stuff like the A1, Pegasos, Efika, Sam and so forth are all valid entries.
I'm not convinced, should Amiga DE devices like the Sharp Zaurus be included too? DE was the official succesor OS to the 68k Amiga OS at one point afterall, just as official if not moreso than OS4, despite it having nothing in common with the 68k OS nor even running on any 68k hardware.
Of course, generic PC's and PPC based macs are as much commodity hardware as anything else, so I don't feel there's a need to include them because as with vanilla PCI cards, it's all already out there. However, it would certainly be useful to include information about, for example, which specific models are supported. If you want a fully supported MorphOS, AROS or Amithlon box, it would be an ideal resource to check.
Isn't that easily available from amigaos.net or morphos-team.net etc already?
In the end it's up to the site owner what content he puts on it. Those of us who believe Amigas were only ever manufactured by CBM and Escom will never be convinced otherwise and vice-versa.
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I am far and away A.org's most vocal and (IMO ;) ) important AROS supporter... But I don't see how it is relevant to the bboah discussion. AROS is Amiga Software, it doesn't matter what it runs on (pretty much everything BTW) :)
;) my point is, that the hardware database should be for Hardware that is related to "Amiga Hardware", it's lovely that our new modern "super" AmigaOS clones can run on x amount of hardware, but that is a special feature of them, it doesn't really make the hardware they run on "Amiga Hardware" :)
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What's that got to do with anything I said? I refuted the claim that AmigaOS 4 is "more officially Amiga" only in the eyes of some religious zealots - it is actually more official than its 'competitors'.
That doesn't mean it's a better product, or still relevant or whatever else. It just means it's more official. And if that's really important to somebody, so be it.
I thought you were stating the opposite, my wrong :)
Exactly, which is why there's one official AmigaOS and two clones - which are collectively referred to as "the Amiga systems" on Amiga-News.de, similar to "the Unix systems" which is also a family of more or less compatible operating systems, some official, some clones.
I wouldnt risk to say OS4 is official. It is officialy made by Hyperion, and they "claim" it is the official "AmigaOS" but not "Amiga OS", and that they have argued that they have some legal rights for that. And then it runs on the "AmigaOne" but not on an "Amiga".
To continue elaborating this, my x86 notebook runs the official Commodore-Amiga OS 3.0 within WinUAE, but that doesnt make my notebook an Amiga.
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therefore said hardware doesn't belong on a site that is supposed to be documenting Amiga specific hardware.
Sure, but you could argue that custom machines that are specifically built for AO4 may belong in their own section on the site, because they're Amiga related (while not being actual Amigas). Obviously, macs and pcs don't belong there at all.
but my definition of Amiga is broader.
Your definition of Amiga is irrelevant, because the makers of the original Amiga computers got to decide what an Amiga is, not you. The last Amigas are therefore the AGA Amigas. What you, me, or anyone else thinks, is entirely irrelevant.
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Sure, but you could argue that custom machines that are specifically built for AO4 may belong in their own section on the site, because they're Amiga related (while not being actual Amigas). Obviously, macs and pcs don't belong there at all.
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Surely, we agree on that - point is not to replace old Amigas, but to show what is today relevant.
Idea is not to replace / alter past, but add some continuation to it
Your definition of Amiga is irrelevant, because the makers of the original Amiga computers got to decide what an Amiga is, not you. The last Amigas are therefore the AGA Amigas. What you, me, or anyone else thinks, is entirely irrelevant
In same manner, it was decided that AmigaOne is a successor line.
I wouldnt risk to say OS4 is official. It is officialy made by Hyperion, and they "claim" it is the official "AmigaOS" but not "Amiga OS", and that they have argued that they have some legal rights for that. And then it runs on the "AmigaOne" but not on an "Amiga".
I wouldnt risk to say OS4 is official. It is officialy made by Hyperion, and they "claim" it is the official "AmigaOS" but not "Amiga OS", and that they have argued that they have some legal rights for that. And then it runs on the "AmigaOne" but not on an "Amiga".
I would risk to say it is official, but that alone isn`t making it any advance to other two branches. Its AmigaOS (not Amiga OS) just because that is trademark allowed. AmigaOne is similarly, official successor of Amiga, but that doesn`t make Efika/Pegasos/AROS system any less what they are and not less Amiga related.
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From a technology point of view, does OS4 have anything that MorphOS or AROS even need?
[cue Mario theme]
The Frieden Bros.
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As far as I am concerned, the BBoAH should really only contain information about hardware built specifically for the original Amiga machines. So, while info about a particular PCI expansion bus is useful, I don't feel there's any value in including information about generic PCI cards you'd put in there. Possible exceptions to that rule being perhaps lists of known compatible devices.
Regarding "NG", it's a bit muddier. Nobody can seriously claim that OS4, MorphOS and AROS aren't anything to do with the Amiga (though many try), so in my view it's fair to include information about hardware purpose-built to run these operating systems. So stuff like the A1, Pegasos, Efika, Sam and so forth are all valid entries.
Of course, generic PC's and PPC based macs are as much commodity hardware as anything else, so I don't feel there's a need to include them because as with vanilla PCI cards, it's all already out there. However, it would certainly be useful to include information about, for example, which specific models are supported. If you want a fully supported MorphOS, AROS or Amithlon box, it would be an ideal resource to check.
+1
Sums it up quite nicely.
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+1
Sums it up quite nicely.
Yes, but AmigaOne is hardware specifically built for Amiga(OS)
Anyway, I am preparing X1000 entry for this weekend.
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The funny thing about all this is that Morphos should be considered "the real amiga ng" because the morphos team is made up of some of the best classic amiga developers. If it wasnt for morphos team there would have been no NG amiga. Look into these guys are and what they did for classic amigas (ppc hardware, gui toolkit, cybergrafx, first usb stack etc etc etc etc)
as a matter of fact if you look into old amiga magazines the pegasos and morphos was going to be "amiga os4"
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Yes, but AmigaOne is hardware specifically built for Amiga(OS)
So what? What do you want? A frakking cookie?
There is *NO* difference between AROS, MorphOS or "AmigaOS(tm)". Please get your head out of your arse and quit with the elitist mentality. If you wish to put details regarding "AmigaOS" hardware on BBoAH, then you need to do it for all of them, 'cos every one of the Big 3 are the "successor" to Amiga OS 3.1......
Frakking zealots..... :anger:
[EDIT] - And *PLEASE* spare us the whole "But Hyperion won the case against Amiga Inc. and are the chosen ones" bs.....
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methuslas you are right
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The funny thing about all this is that Morphos should be considered "the real amiga ng" because the morphos team is made up of some of the best classic amiga developers. If it wasnt for morphos team there would have been no NG amiga. Look into these guys are and what they did for classic amigas (ppc hardware, gui toolkit, cybergrafx, first usb stack etc etc etc etc)
as a matter of fact if you look into old amiga magazines the pegasos and morphos was going to be "amiga os4"
The MorphOS team is made up of the cream of the crop when it comes to Amiga developers. Who are the OS4 team? The only one I've heard of that developed good stuff in the old days is Olaf Barthel.
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The big book of Amiga Hardware should be be diluted with additions from the successor camps. There should be successors to it, like the Big Book of AmigaOne Hardware and the Big Book of Morphos Hardware and the the Big Book of AROS hardware...
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Just let it go GrandMa.
+1, sheesh c'mon GrandMa:whack: