Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: vox on August 19, 2013, 02:21:30 PM
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Wanted: Volunteers to make OS4 and MOS hardware entries for Big Book of Amiga Hardware
Hi guys!
I`ve just recently noticed that there are no Eyetech Amiga One / Acube SAMs / A-EON X1000
in big book of Amiga HW (great website) Also, Pegs and Efikas deserve entry too (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Its purely hardware, needs hi-res pics, see the style
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/CategoryList.aspx?id=1 (http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/CategoryList.aspx?id=1)
All properly formatted pics and info should be sent to info@bigbookofamigahardware.com (info@bigbookofamigahardware.com)
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These machines aren't Amigas therefore they should not be on the BBOAH.
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@nicholas:
+1
@vox
whats the use of it? can you stop stupid actionism? you start to behave as if amiga were your sole property. have you even asked anybody if your idea be appreciated? bet not.
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These used Commodity Hardware so, there seems little point adding them to the database...
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These used Commodity Hardware so, there seems little point adding them to the database...
At least Draco due to AHI/RTG even with 060 falls out that narrow definition. At some point of time
we all started to use commodity RAM, sound and gfx cards, expansion ports, hard drives, out of
Commodore standard, especially when it died. And it was kind of normalization, to leave
some times weird sometimes good Apple/Mac/CBM standards. And happened to all.
There is Minimig, and author accepts these as valid entries, no matter what is your opinion of these boards.
Call it sacrilege, but it will be done. Even PPC Macs if MOS users demand so :-)
Wiki does so
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_models_and_variants#PowerPC-based_Amiga_models_.28post_Commodore.29
AMIGA is also machine running AmigaOS, not just chipset based computer with 68k named AMIGA.
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There is Minimig, and author accepts these as valid entries, no matter what is your opinion of these boards.
Call it sacrilege, but it will be done. Even PPC Macs if MOS users demand so :-)
Nobody would.
Wiki does so
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_models_and_variants#PowerPC-based_Amiga_models_.28post_Commodore.29
AMIGA is also machine running AmigaOS, not just chipset based computer with 68k named AMIGA.
No it isn't. A PPC motherboard running "AmigaOS" is an AmigaOne not an Amiga. This was clearly laid out and accepted as fact by both parties in the Amiga Inc vs Hyperion trial yet you don't accept it. Why?
An Amiga is a computer based around a 68k CPU and OCS/ECS/AGA chipset manufactured by CBM or Escom.
One of my closest and dearest friends is one the OS4 developers and even he doesn't say that these PPC motherboards are Amigas.
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Nobody would.
..No it isn't. A PPC motherboard running "AmigaOS" is an AmigaOne not an Amiga. This was clearly laid out and accepted as fact by both parties in the Amiga Inc vs Hyperion trial yet you don't accept it. Why?
An Amiga is a computer based around a 68k CPU and OCS/ECS/AGA chipset manufactured by CBM or Escom.
One of my closest and dearest friends is one the OS4 developers and even he doesn't say that these PPC motherboards are Amigas.
funny so all the classics running PPC boards to use AmigaOS are no longer Amigas:angry:
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funny so all the classics running PPC boards to use AmigaOS are no longer Amigas:angry:
Read my post more carefully.
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Step 1, get rid of .NET
Step 2, ??
Step 3, world domination.
Any way, if I can help in any way, then I will do so.
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Nobody would.
No it isn't. A PPC motherboard running "AmigaOS" is an AmigaOne not an Amiga. This was clearly laid out and accepted as fact by both parties in the Amiga Inc vs Hyperion trial yet you don't accept it. Why?
An Amiga is a computer based around a 68k CPU and OCS/ECS/AGA chipset manufactured by CBM or Escom.
One of my closest and dearest friends is one the OS4 developers and even he doesn't say that these PPC motherboards are Amigas.
I rephrase the exponation: AmigaOne boards, Efika, Pegasos ... even being common PPC blah blah hardware deserve an entry in Amiga history, simply because they are part of it. Even they should not be litterally called AMIGA but EFIKA and PEGASOS as well as Samanthas ...
Under same criteria Minimig should be out. Or Draco.
SImilar list is already part of Amiga History, herby would be kindly asked if users do have this hardware to provide hi res images
and update a bit big book with more recent developments.
It sadly does have only a company pages, not concept one realated as AmigaHistory that causes such resistance.
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/everyamiga.html
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I rephrase the exponation: AmigaOne boards, Efika, Pegasos ... even being common PPC blah blah hardware deserve an entry in Amiga history, simply because they are part of it. Even they should not be litterally called AMIGA but EFIKA and PEGASOS as well as Samanthas ...
Under same criteria Minimig should be out. Or Draco.
SImilar list is already part of Amiga History, herby would be kindly asked if users do have this hardware to provide hi res images
and update a bit big book with more recent developments.
It sadly does have only a company pages, not concept one realated as AmigaHistory that causes such resistance.
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/everyamiga.html
@Vox,
Hi,
If that is the case then you would have to also allow all intel machines running Amiga Forever, it runs the Amiga OS, and even has the original roms and also I would say is more Amiga then anything else out there. It just uses more modern equipment then say an out dated ppc chip, or a slow chip like what is in minimig. The only thing is it can not run OS4 yet but I bet if the programmers really worked at it , they can get it to.
No, I say lets leave the Amiga database for the real Amiga's only. We should start another database for the emulators that are out there.
smerf
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This should probably be a separate project simply to avoid confusion. A "Big Book of OS4 Hardware" wouldn't leave people who just want to find out about classic Amiga options trying to sift out all the OS4-only stuff.
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This should probably be a separate project simply to avoid confusion. A "Big Book of OS4 Hardware" wouldn't leave people who just want to find out about classic Amiga options trying to sift out all the OS4-only stuff.
Your right, I will submit my entry and when have time and proper images of all mentioned boards. Surely, there will be no other such big website.
There is everything Classic exhausted to details, but no matter mention of later developments. And its just few boards. Its right of people not to participate. ACube is already a listed company, why not having Genesi , Eyetech and A-EON?
Amiga Forever is software emulator, UAE based. Emulation doesn`t count in.
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So are you going to include every Intel, AMD and VIA CPU/motherboard combination that AROS runs on in this new dream of yours?
Raspberry Pi too?
How about every Android phone and tablet that AROS also happens to run on?
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I applaud your efforts and would be happy to provide AmigaOne X1000 shots for you.
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These machines aren't Amigas therefore they should not be on the BBOAH.
I agree. Lets not contaminate the BBOAH with commodity HW.
If anything make a separate site.
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Why not just add a section for "machines designed for AmigaOS 4"? It won't take away anything from the rest of the site; if you don't want to see machines like Sams and X1000s just don't go into the new area.
It's not like there's anything sacred about 68k Amigas, they're all just machines designed to run AmigaOS on, or machines that were chosen to run AmigaOS on in the case of the A1XE: that includes 68k and PowerPC.
I would also include machines like the Peg 1 and 2 and Efika for MorphOS and the AROS machines like the iMica, but I would stop short of including generic PCs and Macs because they're covered by other websites; you have to draw the line somewhere, after all.
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Why not just add a section for "machines designed for AmigaOS 4"? It won't take away anything from the rest of the site; if you don't want to see machines like Sams and X1000s just don't go into the new area.
It's not like there's anything sacred about 68k Amigas, they're all just machines designed to run AmigaOS on, or machines that were chosen to run AmigaOS on in the case of the A1XE: that includes 68k and PowerPC.
I would also include machines like the Peg 1 and 2 and Efika for MorphOS and the AROS machines like the iMica, but I would stop short of including generic PCs and Macs because they're covered by other websites; you have to draw the line somewhere, after all.
yap, I certainly agree... but as per usual most suspects favour in-fighting and bring everything down with them... sigh...
Tom UK
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yap, I certainly agree... but as per usual most suspects favour in-fighting and bring everything down with them... sigh...
Tom UK
Any hardware post-Escom is not an Amiga nor is any OS made by Hyperion allowed to be called "Amiga OS", this was made quite clear during the court case and accepted by both Amiga Inc and Hyperion.
Why is this so hard to accept for some people?
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Why not just add a section for "machines designed for AmigaOS 4"? It won't take away anything from the rest of the site; if you don't want to see machines like Sams and X1000s just don't go into the new area.
It's not like there's anything sacred about 68k Amigas, they're all just machines designed to run AmigaOS on, or machines that were chosen to run AmigaOS on in the case of the A1XE: that includes 68k and PowerPC.
I would also include machines like the Peg 1 and 2 and Efika for MorphOS and the AROS machines like the iMica, but I would stop short of including generic PCs and Macs because they're covered by other websites; you have to draw the line somewhere, after all.
Good.Can you do it for at least one board / model that you have? Hi res images and detailed tech description in BBOAH is needed. Thanks.
I would understand If it such resistance was by people that know not of anything that happened after 1994 I would understand. However, cant please all the people ...
Some of these boards like Eyetech and Genesi are already a history, and deserve a bit of preservation, even aren‚t made by CBM simply because it died.
Most of additional CBM Amiga hardware like SCSI, PCMCIA, RTG and AHI cards, PCI add on cards are also Commodity hardware, but aren‚t deleted. Neither are Draco or Minimig.
Point is it was made in connection to Amiga/alike OSs.
Any hardware post-Escom is not an Amiga nor is any OS made by Hyperion allowed to be called "Amiga OS", this was made quite clear during the court case and accepted by both Amiga Inc and Hyperion.
Why is this so hard to accept for some people?
As well as AmigaOne is board series made to run AmigaOS as sucessor, being extension of Amiga on PPC arhitecture.
Why is this so hard to accept for some people? It was official at the time. Suddenly everyone has amnesia.
It is with great pleasure that we are able to announce the first new Amiga hardware in over 6 year
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in-fighting.... go on... (last response here)
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As well as AmigaOne is board series made to run AmigaOS as sucessor, being extension of Amiga on PPC arhitecture.
AmigaOne != Amiga
AmigaOS != Amiga OS
Please answer my questions regarding AROS hardware.
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I see absolutely no harm in having pages for "Amiga NG Systems" or "Amiga like systems".
They have pertinence and interest amongst the Amiga community. Don't let narrow vision and crippling definitions of what one perceives as an "Amiga" keep helpful info off a site like BBOAH.
I can fire up my MOS machine or my SAM and run a classic Amiga program just fine, no emulation required. I know neither machine has a C= logo on the case, I know they aren't Amiga's. But are they of interest and in relation to the Amiga lineage?
I believe so.
If having a SAM or MOS box on BBOAH is something that will keep you up nights, I truly worry about y'all, lol.
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AmigaOne != Amiga
AmigaOS != Amiga OS
Please answer my questions regarding AROS hardware.
I believe iMica and AresOne deserve the entries, just don`t have the hardware to do high res pictures and entries.
Hardware architecture can and should change.
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I see absolutely no harm in having pages for "Amiga NG Systems" or "Amiga like systems".
They have pertinence and interest amongst the Amiga community. Don't let narrow vision and crippling definitions of what one perceives as an "Amiga" keep helpful info off a site like BBOAH.
I can fire up my MOS machine or my SAM and run a classic Amiga program just fine, no emulation required. I know neither machine has a C= logo on the case, I know they aren't Amiga's. But are they of interest and in relation to the Amiga lineage?
I believe so.
If having a SAM or MOS box on BBOAH is something that will keep you up nights, I truly worry about y'all, lol.
It's about pollution.
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I believe iMica and AresOne deserve the entries, just don`t have the hardware to do high res pictures and entries.
Hardware architecture can and should change.
Why not my phone? It runs AROS just as well as those machines.
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Why not my phone? It runs AROS just as well as those machines.
No it doesn`t. That ground is we go for UAE since it runs Android and so on. Really universal thingie, but limited to OS up to 3.9.
To that, AROS/OS4/MorphOS represent step beyond.
Please demonstrate a phone that runs AROS, that would be really nice.
Pollution is not Amiga evolution, you have mixed it up with ecology.
Anyone that had to continue Amiga spirit had to abandon chipsets because it was hard concept to compete to developed gfx/sound market, as well as 68k was effectively replaced with PPC. And MorphOS and AmigaOS 4, in despite all of its difficulties, as well as AROS dedicated machines, serve to purpose with right hardware available at that time.
Why people that are versed in computer history, show need for revisiting commonly known places?
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No it doesn`t.
Yes it does.
http://netcologne.dl.sourceforge.net/project/aros/nightly/20130819/Binaries/AROS-20130819-android-arm-system.tar.bz2
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Yes it does.
http://netcologne.dl.sourceforge.net/project/aros/nightly/20130819/Binaries/AROS-20130819-android-arm-system.tar.bz2
Thanks, didn`t know there is AROS for Android
You are welcome to send an entry if you desire so. However, if I am correct, these are running AROS as VM, not natively, but nevermind.
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It's about pollution.
Who is the ultimate judge on what constitutes "pollution"? Who sets the bar as to purity? Sort of subjective upon whoever is looking at things, no?
I've got very little interest in legacy Amiga stuff these days. If someone was to post legacy machine info on a NG Amiga site I visit, would I be offended and call it "pollution"? No. I likely wouldn't read it if it held none of my interest and leave it at that. Such a case would be loosely related to what I am interested in, but really offer me nothing, so I simply would skip over it just like I do the sports page in the morning newspaper. Not my cup of tea, but certainly not "pollution" if someone gets value out of it even if I do not.
I know that sports section is there everyday in my newspaper, and that someone surely enjoys it even if I do not, and that's it's ultimately my choice to disregard it. I don't lose sleep over that sports section, you know?
Whatever happened to people having the personal free will to just read what is interesting to them and ignore what they do not like, or what they are not interested in.
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I agree with others. Lets not pollute BBOAH with NG Amiga stuff. If it can execute 68k code natively then it should be added. That is where I would draw the line.
NG stuff running AROS/OS4/MorphOS could have a dedicated site instead.
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Thanks, didn`t know there is AROS for Android
You are welcome to send an entry if you desire so. However, if I am correct, these are running AROS as VM, not natively, but nevermind.
No not running in a VM but running hosted on top of the Linux kernel like MorphOS runs hosted on the Quark Kernel.
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Who is the ultimate judge on what constitutes "pollution"? Who sets the bar as to purity? Sort of subjective upon whoever is looking at things, no?
I've got very little interest in legacy Amiga stuff these days. If someone was to post legacy machine info on a NG Amiga site I visit, would I be offended and call it "pollution"? No. I likely wouldn't read it if it held none of my interest and leave it at that. Such a case would be loosely related to what I am interested in, but really offer me nothing, so I simply would skip over it just like I do the sports page in the morning newspaper. Not my cup of tea, but certainly not "pollution" if someone gets value out of it even if I do not.
I know that sports section is there everyday in my newspaper, and that someone surely enjoys it even if I do not, and that's it's ultimately my choice to disregard it. I don't lose sleep over that sports section, you know?
Whatever happened to people having the personal free will to just read what is interesting to them and ignore what they do not like, or what they are not interested in.
Because, as it's name clearly states, The Big Book of Amiga Hardware is a site dedicated solely to documenting Amiga hardware and nothing else.
You have already admitted yourself that OS4 and MorphOS machines are not Amigas, therefore they do not belong on that site. Simple as that.
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I agree with others. Lets not pollute BBOAH with NG Amiga stuff. If it can execute 68k code natively then it should be added. That is where I would draw the line.
NG stuff running AROS/OS4/MorphOS could have a dedicated site instead.
But teh reel!
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I admitted it myself on my own beliefs and nothing more. Ones definition of an Amiga may only be towards C= hardware and not AT or Escom, or any of the NG platforms. I'd just like to see a single site with all native, amiga like hardware represented, old or new (not covering emulation hardware, obviously - a PC is still a PC and all, with or without UAE , AF or Amithlon).
That being said, the "Amiga" right beside me clearly says "Amiga OS" on the titlebar at the top of the Workbench screen. It'll run pretty much any classic, legacy 68k software I try on it. In that sense it is an Amiga, no?
:)
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I admitted it myself on my own beliefs and nothing more. Ones definition of an Amiga may only be towards C= hardware and not AT or Escom.
That being said, the "Amiga" right beside me clearly says "Amiga OS" on the titlebar at the top of the Workbench screen. It'll run pretty much any classic, legacy software I try on it. In that sense it is an Amiga, no?
:)
Correct, no.
It's an industrial PPC motherboard designed for the embedded market running a clone of the Amiga Operating system that doesn't even have the legal right to use the word Amiga, just AmigaOS.
Look closer, does it say AmigaOS or Amiga OS? If the latter then someone ought to tell the legal owners of that trademark as I'm sure their lawyers would be very interested to know.
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Look closer, does it say AmigaOS or Amiga OS? If the latter then someone ought to tell the legal owners of that trademark as I'm sure their lawyers would be very interested to know.
@ Nik,
Troll! :smack:
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Yes add the X1000.. The description should include...
The X1000 costs more than the original Commodore custom chipset A1000. The X1000 system still a WIP with many features still not implemented. The X1000 manufacturer is more interested moving to next model rather than concentrating on getting the X1000 fully operational.
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these machines aren't amigas therefore they should not be on the bboah.
4gr33d
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Because, as it's name clearly states, The Big Book of Amiga Hardware is a site dedicated solely to documenting Amiga hardware and nothing else.
You have already admitted yourself that OS4 and MorphOS machines are not Amigas, therefore they do not belong on that site. Simple as that.
SUrely, Nyx and Boxer fully fall on that category.
How narrow minded people are.
On industry standards vs Commodore standards and 68k natively
And so do these boards run Amiga PPC/MorphOS PPC programs NATIVELY.
Walker was first to feature ISA and PCI bus as Zorro replacement as standard (promoted by Mediator) so moving from CBM standards was clear and real, as much as Apple moved from Apple specific standards to industry standards.
It features Nyx which is neither as well as Boxer that also has ISA/PCI and PowerPC.
ISA slots were even present on early Amiga 2000 and Amiga 3000, but usable only via
IBM PC emulation cards.
Amiga stanards were innovative up to Amiga 3000.
Why leaving NG hardware out of picture, especially that BBOAH features nice things like scanned commercials and manuals for the boards/systems?
On companies:
I do remember companies from that time, but things evolve.
All those companies left the market, and we were left with mentioned companies
(Eyetech, Genesi, Acube,A-EON)
They have designed hardware specifically for Amiga market that has no other uses
(can run Linux thanks to Linux versatility)
There is no such definition of BBOAH, and obviously no censorship of such kind, beside YOUR interpretation what belongs there.
Once again, website owner accepted to include mentioned boards as long as someone else makes the articles. Needed are people that have such hardware, time, nice camera and that can scan manuals and so on, not people claiming its heresy.
NG stuff running AROS/OS4/MorphOS could have a dedicated site instead.
New website would just make a duplicate, for what, just few boards that are part of Amiga history and recognized as PPC continuation on both Amiga Wiki pages and Amiga History models page.
Who would host such as OS4/MOS communities are divided,
and why not using existing resources? Because of peoples "Classic idolism"? Linkage to Amiga name?
Half Amiga models presented there bear no Amiga name.
Its not an "Alien infiltration" its showing what we use today, who developed it and that was progress after 1997.
Not preserving our own history, just makes it look like everything ended with CBM. Even those were glory days
there is more to it. Some people decide to stick to Classic only seeing it as "clone OSs" on "clone hardware"
but they fail to see custom home computers ended with Atari and CBM simply because its too expnsive
and non competitive. And yet the same people use same AHI and RTG to utilize cards with additional power,
difference only happened in moving to PowerPC - that included Motorola and is de facto next generation replacement of 68k.
What a bunch of hypocrisy.
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Yes add the X1000.. The description should include...
The X1000 costs more than the original Commodore custom chipset A1000. The X1000 system still a WIP with many features still not implemented. The X1000 manufacturer is more interested moving to next model rather than concentrating on getting the X1000 fully operational.
Website doesn`t include prices, and mentions just the Workbench and Kickstart versions supplied, which do exist for NG systems. Or we should also delete OS4 from Workbench nostalgia?
http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/
Hardware itself is fully fanctual and X2000 is generally just continuation of same line with newer and more avail hardware.
I am really glad you will not do contribs to BBOAH.
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@ thread
Seriously? Are we having the "si not teh true amg1a!!!!1111oneoneone" argument again? Like it or not, the NG boards were designed and/or marketed to our community because they run Amiga OS (or something so f***ing similar that there's no appreciable difference). I'm so sick of this pedantic "must have 68K", "must have OCS/ECS/AGA", "must have been blessed with silicon dust salvaged from the debris of MOS Technology" criteria.
The Macs that Apple sells today have exactly nothing in common with the 1984 Macintosh and people still accept them as Macs. Even before OSX, the Macs that Apple was selling had exactly nothing in common with the 1984 Macintosh and people still accepted them as Macs. Why must we be so petulant about the Amiga?
Just stick the PPC motherboards in an "NG Amiga" subsection - hell, even put a disclaimer on it - and be done with it. We don't need to fragment the distribution of information any further.
Guys: We've been having this fight for more than TEN YEARS. ENOUGH!
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Well put, Matt.
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Matt, that's more or less what I was trying to say too.
I will never understand the way the word Amiga is treated like a holy name that must not be defiled. For goodness' sake- it's just a computer. If CBM hadn't gone but then the Amiga would definitely not be using a 68k CPU or legacy chipset either.
Let's keep perspective on this, please. Putting in a section for AmigaOs or Amiga OS or MorphOS or AROS isn't going to make Baby $deity cry.... but it will help people looking for hardware to run WhateverOS and that's a good thing. If you don't want to read that section, don't click on that link; the quality of your life will not go down because of its existence.
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well in any case, it would be great to have a list of what hardware or chipsets are supported under the various amiga ng systems.
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@Matt_H
Amiga or not, can't we have our own dedicated web site? The truth is that many hardcore Amigans do not want to merge with NG stuff and we should just respect their opinion. NG Amiga is its own breed that has very little to do with heydays of Commodore.
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I think this is a very bad idea; only real Amiga hardware is real Amiga hardware! It's really no more difficult than that! Keep the history clean and pure. This won't mean that any NG efforts won't have a place in the history as Vox claimed, not at all, but the fact is that HW wise they have all more in common with common commodity PC HW (CPU being the biggest/only difference) than true Amiga HW. It's nothing bad with that IMHO, but it's just not the same, it's not Amiga, and this isn't changed by putting a boing ball sticker on top of it.
I would also include machines like the Peg 1 and 2 and Efika for MorphOS and the AROS machines like the iMica, but I would stop short of including generic PCs and Macs because they're covered by other websites; you have to draw the line somewhere, after all.
The line should of course be drawn right at the last true Amiga HW that existed, not before, and certainly *not* arbitrarily after! Amiga HW is Amiga HW, period!
If you would include AmigaOne/Teron, Pegasos, iMica etc, then you should also include *all* AROS native HW, as well as *all* of these:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65055
You should at least be consistent, and not draw the line from certain individuals arbitrary subjective opinions!
But again, only Amiga HW is Amiga HW. It's no more complicated than that!
:madashell:
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@matt_h
amiga or not, can't we have our own dedicated web site? The truth is that many hardcore amigans do not want to merge with ng stuff and we should just respect their opinion. Ng amiga is its own breed that has very little to do with heydays of commodore.
+1
:)
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Always been the problem with Amigans, Itix. The "our" mentality. Like the NG guys and guys that use emulation are the lepers of the bunch. It's always been part of the Amiga curse and it stinks.
We're all on the same boat, Lads. NG, classic, emulation, whatever it is - you should be damned thankful there's even an Amiga scene *left", rather than driving wedges over stupid semantics like "baww, those new school guys wanna put their poopy new pics and info on *our* site!". Use what you enjoy. I'd love to hear your experiences with it, even if I use a different method at getting my "Amiga" fix.
My logic? If someone goes there (BBOAH or elsewhere) after 20 years of being out of the Amiga scene, and sees something that sparks his interest, classic or NG - that gets him back into the Amiga? Godspeed to him. Information is power. I'm happy to get another Amigan back into the fold, whether he uses an A500, an X1000, or a MOS rig.
Find it ironic that no one has issues with the completely vaporware or prototype stuff, or the oddball kiosk stuff that *really* has no overlap to the dear classics on BBOAH, but they fudge their undies at the mere mention of NG hardware. "TAINTED, TAINTED!!! I CALL THEE TAINTED!!!"
I'd be amused if it wasn't just so damned predictable, really. Guess the major thing missed in all of this was the "if this link doesn't pertain to you, don't click it!" ideal.
Truth of the matter is, Vox merely asked for help doing sections on the NG stuff. Instead everyone went into this Holy War mode and went into the usual tirade. Vox, if you still plan on adding this info (and I hope you do), I'd be happy to help you, as I own a SAM 440 and a MOS Mac (as well as an A1200).
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Wow... Lot of strong emotions stired up!
All I was asking is what advantages does adding commodity hardware to the database give?
The question that needs to be asked is, what do people use the database for. Before for someone starts adding in a lot more "noise" on the site, it is first important to find out what are the most viewed pages, and why did people visit them.
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All I was asking is what advantages does adding commodity hardware to the database give?
That's a very good question, and one that did enter my mind in regards to how I use the site, but perhaps I was a bit short sighted in regards to other peoples usage cases. Me, I couldn't care less about what is listed on BBOAH. I visit there a couple times a week and read what interests me personally and skip what doesn't interest me. Pretty simple concept to ignore what doesn't offer me any value, and I'm glad a site like BBOAH even exists. It's one of the Amiga sites that we simply cannot ever let slip away, it's of that much value, just like Aminet or A.org. I can say 100% that in 2008, when I was getting back into the Amiga after being gone from it since around 1994, BBOAH truly did bring me back into the Amiga scene with its' wealth of information.
"Commodity hardware" is an odd word to use, but a suitable word. A PPC Mac running MOS is still a Mac, even though it's running an Amiga-oid OS. Same goes for things like the SAM, they are embedded boards that coincidentally run an Amiga-oid OS, OS4. Neither are "official Amiga's".
I think a lot of people fear what this will usher in. If we add the SAM boards (and other OS4 boards), and MOS capable machines, AROS machines - what's next? Any PC running Amiga Forever or Amithlon deserves its' own entry? Nah, that's never going to happen, IMO. Same goes for "wolves in sheeps clothing" things like the re-fabbed C-USA C64 clone cases with PC guts, or their Amiga branded Mini ITX Mac Mini knockoffs. Is it right for me to have no issues with SAM and OS4/MOS, or AROS rigs getting on BBOAH, but I have worries about someone coming along demanding that an off the shelf PC running Amiga Forever warrants its' own entry? Who knows.
I suppose I am looking at the future more than anything. Legacy, and I mean true legacy - Amiga hardware at the base machine level will never be made again. A lucky lottery winner would be foolish to start remaking a 20 year old computer like the A1200. The future lies in expansion products like Amigakit and other supportive vendors are selling for legacy fans, as well as in the NG systems - and perhaps even more so in the FPGA implementations like FPGA Arcade. FPGA Arcade is no more of a truly technically "Amiga" solution that a SAM or MOS machine, is it? I mean, for you hard line Amiga zealots, it's "still not an Amiga", is it? Same goes for a Minimig - yet Minimig has an entry on BBOAH that no one seems to be griping about.
One serious question I have of all of you: When the FPGA Arcade goes public and undoubtedly impresses the living heck out of all of us, does it warrant a BBOAH entry? I mean, it's no more a "real Amiga" by most of you peoples standards than the SAM or MOS machines on my desk are, you know? Choose wisely, lest thee appear to be a hypocrite :)
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Wow... Lot of strong emotions stired up!
All I was asking is what advantages does adding commodity hardware to the database give?
The question that needs to be asked is, what do people use the database for. Before for someone starts adding in a lot more "noise" on the site, it is first important to find out what are the most viewed pages, and why did people visit them.
+1
the whole action is nothing but another desperate attempt to crap all over the genuine amiga fans sandbox to spoil their game if they dont convert. and this just by individual actionists of some other system. im sorta tired of being haunted by freaks like that. as usual morphos users show more reason, integrity and respect to amiga legacy.
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I think this is a very bad idea; only real Amiga hardware is real Amiga hardware! It's really no more difficult than that! Keep the history clean and pure. This won't mean that any NG efforts won't have a place in the history as Vox claimed, not at all, but the fact is that HW wise they have all more in common with common commodity PC HW (CPU being the biggest/only difference) than true Amiga HW. It's nothing bad with that IMHO, but it's just not the same, it's not Amiga, and this isn't changed by putting a boing ball sticker on top of it.
The line should of course be drawn right at the last true Amiga HW that existed, not before, and certainly *not* arbitrarily after! Amiga HW is Amiga HW, period!
If you would include AmigaOne/Teron, Pegasos, iMica etc, then you should also include *all* AROS native HW, as well as *all* of these:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65055
You should at least be consistent, and not draw the line from certain individuals arbitrary subjective opinions!
But again, only Amiga HW is Amiga HW. It's no more complicated than that!
:madashell:
I understand the logic behind such opinion, however Amiga hardware is whatever runs AmigaOS. I agree AROS makes a situation bit more complex, so for the beginning we ll go without it, with much respect to AresOne and iMica.
This is what current BBOAH managment says
I see that there's a lot of thread activity regarding NG Amiga in BBoAH.
My personal defintion of "Amiga hardware" is hardware that can be used with AmigaOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS)
Since a lot of entries in BBoAH has been made before I took over, I can't gurantee that all BBoAH entries are valid according to the above definition.
Sadly, so far only one AmigaOne XE owner volunteered, as well as I will do my share of work.
However if this website definition includes only OS4 capacable hardware, it excludes Efika and Mac Minis
(and all 72 models ....) altough I am for opting for full MorphOS pages. As long as they do nice pages
for all 72 models ...
Still looking for SAM 460, Efika, Pegasos 1/2, AmigaOne non XE models volunteers.
And whoever wants do to piece of job
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Always been the problem with Amigans, Itix. The "our" mentality. Like the NG guys and guys that use emulation are the lepers of the bunch. It's always been part of the Amiga curse and it stinks.
Truth of the matter is, Vox merely asked for help doing sections on the NG stuff. Instead everyone went into this Holy War mode and went into the usual tirade. Vox, if you still plan on adding this info (and I hope you do), I'd be happy to help you, as I own a SAM 440 and a MOS Mac (as well as an A1200).
Thanks Duce, can you be counted in? A1200 is there, so there is SAM 440 to do, and if you wish MOS Mac, why not. Like Trevor said, that will be a painful one, but again, yes it works.
the whole action is nothing but another desperate attempt to crap all over the genuine amiga fans sandbox to spoil their game if they dont convert. and this just by individual actionists of some other system. im sorta tired of being haunted by freaks like that. as usual morphos users show more reason, integrity and respect to amiga legacy.
Again, no one is forcing anyone to "Conversion" just because existance of newer boards will be added.
I am interested to hear how does more entries harm BBOAH or Classic community?
How does it discrispect anything if its part of the same community, made for it,even
due to licensing reasons mainly, most of that hadrware doesn`t have CBM or Amiga name?
Is it freakish to update a page with current and recent developments?
And why someone that used to be Classic user but has moved to MorphOS / OS4
is not a "genuine user or fan"when it is continuous investment in future of the same kind?
The question that needs to be asked is, what do people use the database for. Before for someone starts adding in a lot more "noise" on the site, it is first important to find out what are the most viewed pages, and why did people visit them.
Seems like a bit for history and nostalgia, and whereever possible, they provide nice manuals, schematics and other useful material.
Some of the hardware like Pegs and older AmigaOnes as out of production qualify as historical setting, and while still around and we have
manuals (so we don`t dig eBay auctions) should be done.
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Would be happy to send you any SAM 440ep information you need, just let me know what you are after via a PM here if you like. Owned a 440ep since late 2008.
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Sadly, so far only one AmigaOne XE owner volunteered
Maybe because it's simply wrong?
So, seems like Pegasos / Efika owners so far chose to be excluded. Their choice.
OMG are you for real? Who are *you* to make decisions and definitions on behalf of an entire community?
:confused:
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I suppose if the operator of the site wishes to include NG systems, it's well within their rights, isn't it? Hey, she's a free world. Nothing stopping a person from creating a purist site only dealing with one specific genre of the hobby.
Curious still why stuff like Minimig is kosher but other newer systems simply are not. Minimig or FPGA is no more "Amiga" at the base level hardware than a NG PPC machine is. A question I am pretty sure we won't ever get an answer to :)
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Always been the problem with Amigans, Itix. The "our" mentality. Like the NG guys and guys that use emulation are the lepers of the bunch. It's always been part of the Amiga curse and it stinks.
We're all on the same boat, Lads. NG, classic, emulation, whatever it is - you should be damned thankful there's even an Amiga scene *left", rather than driving wedges over stupid semantics like "baww, those new school guys wanna put their poopy new pics and info on *our* site!". Use what you enjoy. I'd love to hear your experiences with it, even if I use a different method at getting my "Amiga" fix.
My logic? If someone goes there (BBOAH or elsewhere) after 20 years of being out of the Amiga scene, and sees something that sparks his interest, classic or NG - that gets him back into the Amiga? Godspeed to him. Information is power. I'm happy to get another Amigan back into the fold, whether he uses an A500, an X1000, or a MOS rig.
Find it ironic that no one has issues with the completely vaporware or prototype stuff, or the oddball kiosk stuff that *really* has no overlap to the dear classics on BBOAH, but they fudge their undies at the mere mention of NG hardware. "TAINTED, TAINTED!!! I CALL THEE TAINTED!!!"
I'd be amused if it wasn't just so damned predictable, really. Guess the major thing missed in all of this was the "if this link doesn't pertain to you, don't click it!" ideal.
Truth of the matter is, Vox merely asked for help doing sections on the NG stuff. Instead everyone went into this Holy War mode and went into the usual tirade. Vox, if you still plan on adding this info (and I hope you do), I'd be happy to help you, as I own a SAM 440 and a MOS Mac (as well as an A1200).
+1
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this all has nothing to do with practical reasoning. its just publicity stunt by an os4 vocal supporter. if yox really intended to gather a useful database of technical reference he could open his own site. however se sure wouldnt bother to do that as the only reason is to mix up the os4 systems under genuine amigas and therefore to misguide the unaware visitors, that the hardware in question has anything in common.
there were actions like this before, just to name the famous amiga developers lists where the genuine inventors are named in one breath with sdl porters. its just sad and certainly puts more people off than anything else, but be my guest.
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OMG are you for real? Who are *you* to make decisions and definitions on behalf of an entire community?
:confused:
It's the boing ball fever , no known cure for that :)
Vox if you don't include all three camps there will be a war :furious:
As long you include all flavours I'm fine with it :laughing:
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Maybe because it's simply wrong?
OMG are you for real? Who are *you* to make decisions and definitions on behalf of an entire community?
:confused:
Or maybe because people are laisy and willing to troll?
No, I am not, I am simply trying to add to BBOAH what were 21st century developments.
No one is community alone, but again, why spitting over something that was developed for that community? Because its not CBM made (quite a lot of expansions aren`t), don`t have Amiga name (again, some latter Amiga clones didn`t have it) or just because OS was ported to PPC so it isn`t 68k?
There is no reasonable justification for exclusion of newer hardware.
We`ll see in time, how many new entries will be made.
First step seems to be important and quite hard :-)
What was the commercial - most friendly community?
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I applaud your efforts and would be happy to provide AmigaOne X1000 shots for you.
Thanks, AmigaOne x1000 done :-)
@nicholas:
+1
@vox
whats the use of it? can you stop stupid actionism? you start to behave as if amiga were your sole property. have you even asked anybody if your idea be appreciated? bet not.
No, its not my sole property. Idea is to update BBOAH. Some will appriciate, some will not. That is life. But something will happen after all.
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Agree with Blizz there - going to include one, make sure the rest of the comparable NG systems are covered.
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Agree with Blizz there - going to include one, make sure the rest of the comparable NG systems are covered.
Agreed here. Cover the systems that are designed at least partially with Amiga-likes in mind (e.g. Sam440ep, EFIKA), or that were chosen as "official" hardware in times of need (e.g. A1XE, iMica), as well as of course machines dedicated for Amigalikes (X1000, Pegasos 1, Peg 2). Put them in a seperate section for "Post-Commodore hardware running Amiga-like OSes" so it doesn't affect the rest of the BBoAH and most people will be happy.
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this all has nothing to do with practical reasoning. its just publicity stunt by an os4 vocal supporter. if yox really intended to gather a useful database of technical reference he could open his own site. however se sure wouldnt bother to do that as the only reason is to mix up the os4 systems under genuine amigas and therefore to misguide the unaware visitors, that the hardware in question has anything in common.
there were actions like this before, just to name the famous amiga developers lists where the genuine inventors are named in one breath with sdl porters. its just sad and certainly puts more people off than anything else, but be my guest.
No, its not a holy war against anyone. And why opening new website if there is well established credible source existing?
Hardware mentioned has something in common, its AmigaOS.
List that you mention at Amigaos.net is LIST OF ALL PEOPLE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO AMIGAOS as it well explains. You might find it missleading, but please writte to website owners to separate up to OS 3.9 developers from OS 4 developers - even it actually gives credit to all people that have done something for AmigaOS.
Huh, if people knew PowerPC transition includes so much hate ...
It's the boing ball fever , no known cure for that :)
Vox if you don't include all three camps there will be a war :furious:
As long you include all flavours I'm fine with it :laughing:
Have the war without me, I`ll stop writting here.
Everyone can submit entries on your own, or PM me.
Thanks to Duce and ddniUK for willignes to aid the cause, and do something
Matt_H, Spirantho, Sysadmi, Nostalgiac and few other souls that do understand it :-)
Separate section will be kept so it doesn`t contamite the "pure".
Its the same little boat we do sink, and any idea of positive action is even dragged to mud (Blizz1220 can related to infamous Serbian cauldron in hell :-)
As far as I am concerned, all system should be covered under their sections, but who will do the work (BBOAH doesn`t allow 3rd party images, its best to have that hardware)
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I do applaud the initiative, it would be great to have one place where supported hardware for NG systems is listed.
Maybe include links to the drivers?
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Huh, if people knew PowerPC transition includes so much hate ...
the only logical step to extend the bboah database, if this is really necessary, would be to categorize it in four or even five sections:
1. genuine amiga and extensions
2. 68k clones
3. morphos hardware
4. aros hardware
5. os4 hardware
as i said, it doesnt make sense to mix up hardware and systems not compatible to each other into one category, with not interchangeable software and parts.
so if you caught fire, blame yourself, because it was you starting the whole mess not anyone else.
.
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I use the bboah to look up old hardware that has been out of production for almost 20 years or more. Hardware that I would have used with my A500 or A1200. The site is invaluable for such a purpose, as there is no other resource out there where this information is available.
I would say that adding newer hardware is fine, but more often than not, there are plenty of other resource sites for this information as a duplication of effort in this regard seems a waste of time... That said, it's someone's hobby, let them add what they want... But be mindful that if the main reason or someone using a site becomes difficult and slow (hosting storage and bandwidth charges might go up etc), the majority of users might move on... you could be shooting yourself in the foot.
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let them add what they want...
actually yes. nothing particular will come out of this. few people will show off what they consider "amiga" in an "official" database. hardly anyone will notice. things like that happened and went past without an impact. sigh..
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Have two sections: One for Amiga computers, and one for computers that are related to Amiga and Amiga OS. Problem solved.
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funny so all the classics running PPC boards to use AmigaOS are no longer Amigas:angry:
:roflmao:
To everyone--those who think 'sacrilege' about commodity parts, those who see PPC as Amiga or not Amiga, etc.--the question one should ask is: "Does it run AMIGA OS?" In these (hopefully) modern times, the OS should matter more. Things done "the Amiga way".
I think some limit "the Amiga" by restricting it to (maybe fabled by now) custom silicon. What's custom, anymore? Really.
More importantly, what would be 'the Amiga philosophy', when it comes to hardware? Being able to take advantage of what's there, and use it in the simplest way? The most efficient manner?
A site for the Big Book Of Amiga Hardware is a good idea.
It's probably more relevant to think: what hardware is 'Amiga OS specific'? Or can be utilized by Amiga OS. If/when that becomes every piece of OS out there, so much the better--it'll show the diversity, and I would say advantage of Amiga OS, but then an operating system can be made to use whatever hardware there is out there (and that only takes willpower, aside from money, to do that).
:biglaugh: I think Amigan 'purists' are insane now. The 'Amiga' fish used to rule the old pond it was in; but along came a PC tsunami and left us all with an open sea. To not build a 'bigger boat'--to want that 'Amiga' fish to continue seeing the pond and hoping to rule it anymore--is foolish. When times change, you change with them, or get changed to the past forever.
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@ Nik,
Troll! :smack:
Oh yeah, silly me, I forgot that when you tell the truth to the true believers it's trolling. ;)
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+1
the whole action is nothing but another desperate attempt to crap all over the genuine amiga fans sandbox to spoil their game if they dont convert. and this just by individual actionists of some other system. im sorta tired of being haunted by freaks like that. as usual morphos users show more reason, integrity and respect to amiga legacy.
+1
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It's the boing ball fever , no known cure for that :)
Vox if you don't include all three camps there will be a war :furious:
As long you include all flavours I'm fine with it :laughing:
There are four "camps".
Amiga + Amiga OS
AmigaOne + AmigaOS
Various hardware + MorphOS
Various hardware + AROS
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Agreed here. Cover the systems that are designed at least partially with Amiga-likes in mind (e.g. Sam440ep, EFIKA), or that were chosen as "official" hardware in times of need (e.g. A1XE, iMica), as well as of course machines dedicated for Amigalikes (X1000, Pegasos 1, Peg 2). Put them in a seperate section for "Post-Commodore hardware running Amiga-like OSes" so it doesn't affect the rest of the BBoAH and most people will be happy.
So should we add all the PCI/AGP/PCI-E Nvidia and ATI video cards supported by Amiga+Mediator|Grex|Prometheus/AROS/OS4/MorphOS? All of the various USB devices supported by Poseidon?
"No" is the answer as none of these are specific to Amiga computers.
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There are four "camps".
Amiga + Amiga OS
AmigaOne + AmigaOS
Various hardware + MorphOS
Various hardware + AROS
Surely we can overcomplicate this further...
Sam440 was not rebranded as AmigaOne and Sam460 is listed as AmigaOne 500 (for systems) from Acube but as SAM460EX BASIC SYSTEM from Amigakit.
Heh.
#6
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Surely we can overcomplicate this further...
Sam440 was not rebranded as AmigaOne and Sam460 is listed as AmigaOne 500 (for systems) from Acube but as SAM460EX BASIC SYSTEM from Amigakit.
Heh.
#6
If non-AmigaOne branded hardware like the Sam440 are considered Amigas by the faithful does that mean the Pegasos II is also an Amiga?
Because they were VERY vocal about it not being an Amiga prior to 2010.
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:roflmao:
To everyone--those who think 'sacrilege' about commodity parts, those who see PPC as Amiga or not Amiga, etc.--the question one should ask is: "Does it run AMIGA OS?" In these (hopefully) modern times, the OS should matter more. Things done "the Amiga way".
sacriledge.. sigh. its just a fact that hardware wise an amiga is just what it is.. commodore amiga. it has its custom architecture and custom standards not to encounter anywhere else, and thats the information that needs to be preserved and documented. ppc hardware doesnt fit with any genuine amiga hardware and its parts. it isnt even particularly unique as its usually based on third party reference designs. there is no practical reason to list it along the genuine amigas.
I think some limit "the Amiga" by restricting it to (maybe fabled by now) custom silicon. What's custom, anymore? Really.
More importantly, what would be 'the Amiga philosophy', when it comes to hardware? Being able to take advantage of what's there, and use it in the simplest way? The most efficient manner?
then amiga would have to be what aros is today. right? yet i dont think any aros developer feels an urge to include his system in amiga hardware reference.
A site for the Big Book Of Amiga Hardware is a good idea.
It's probably more relevant to think: what hardware is 'Amiga OS specific'? Or can be utilized by Amiga OS. If/when that becomes every piece of OS out there, so much the better--it'll show the diversity, and I would say advantage of Amiga OS, but then an operating system can be made to use whatever hardware there is out there (and that only takes willpower, aside from money, to do that).
but then you must differentiate between incompatible system architectures. you cant run genuine amiga system on any ppc or x86 board, as well as you cant run mos or os4 on genuine amigas except equipped with a ppc expansion (while you can run aros admittedly). you cant exchange software between amiga, mos, os4 and aros without porting is.so it doesnt make sense to pretend these systems are all one thing.
:biglaugh: I think Amigan 'purists' are insane now. The 'Amiga' fish used to rule the old pond it was in; but along came a PC tsunami and left us all with an open sea. To not build a 'bigger boat'--to want that 'Amiga' fish to continue seeing the pond and hoping to rule it anymore--is foolish. When times change, you change with them, or get changed to the past forever.
but amiga is what it is, what it ever was, you will not change it to the opposite pretending its bigger than it is. information hosted on the web should reflect factual state of affairs not intentions and wishes of individuals within the wider community.
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Surely we can overcomplicate this further...
Sam440 was not rebranded as AmigaOne and Sam460 is listed as AmigaOne 500 (for systems) from Acube but as SAM460EX BASIC SYSTEM from Amigakit.
Heh.
#6
reminds me of a disney book i had as a child where an squirrel fell in love with a skunk and painted a stripe on its back to pretend being one too. the skunk has not bees as easily fooled as some wannabe "amiga" fans.
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I don't see what the big deal is about adding NG kit to the site would be. It could get its own little section and would have absolutely no usability impact for the folks who go there looking for classic stuff.
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I don't see what the big deal is about adding NG kit to the site would be. It could get its own little section and would have absolutely no usability impact for the folks who go there looking for classic stuff.
It's also about the intention behind Vox wanting to do this.
It's religious, no matter what he may claim to the contrary.
Should I as a Muslim who accepts Jesus Christ as the Messiah try to have Islamic stuff added to an encyclopedia of Christianity just because we have a shared heritage? No, it's a ridiculous idea just like this one.
Vox is so desperate to justify his purchase of an X1000 as being a genuine Amiga he is on a personal crusade to rewrite history.
CUSA had a legitimate licence of the Amiga trademark yet Vox went ballistic in his previous crusade against them as not being worthy of the holy name.
He is a hypocrite of the highest order.
As the CEO of Commodore Amiga Iran and sole legitimate owner of the Trademark "Amiga" in the Non-Aligned Movement, I hereby bestow unlimited and irrevocable licences upon the members of Amiga.org to retroactively apply the Amiga trademark to their own personal kitchen toaster and post photos and technical details on BBOAH.
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There are four "camps".
Amiga + Amiga OS
AmigaOne + AmigaOS
Various hardware + MorphOS
Various hardware + AROS
Don't forget my camp. People having OS3.x+OS4.x+MOS+AROS machines.
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As the CEO of Commodore Amiga Iran and sole legitimate owner of the Trademark "Amiga" in the Non-Aligned Movement, I hereby bestow unlimited and irrevocable licences upon the members of Amiga.org to retroactively apply the Amiga trademark to their own personal kitchen toaster and post photos and technical details on BBOAH.
Not the best example, since a toaster -would- probably be in an Amiga, whether in the kitchen or elsewhere. Heh.
Let's go with Amiga® Jacuzzi instead:
http://www.tubz.com/jacuzzi_amiga.htm
#6
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It's also about the intention behind Vox wanting to do this.
It's religious, no matter what he may claim to the contrary.
Should I as a Muslim who accepts Jesus Christ as the Messiah try to have Islamic stuff added to an encyclopedia of Christianity just because we have a shared heritage? No, it's a ridiculous idea just like this one.
Vox is so desperate to justify his purchase of an X1000 as being a genuine Amiga he is on a personal crusade to rewrite history.
CUSA had a legitimate licence of the Amiga trademark yet Vox went ballistic in his previous crusade against them as not being worthy of the holy name.
He is a hypocrite of the highest order.
As the CEO of Commodore Amiga Iran and sole legitimate owner of the Trademark "Amiga" in the Non-Aligned Movement, I hereby bestow unlimited and irrevocable licences upon the members of Amiga.org to retroactively apply the Amiga trademark to their own personal kitchen toaster and post photos and technical details on BBOAH.
CUSA had a serious lack of fans in any camp. Pretty much universally hated by everyone, so I don't see any reason to hold Vox to higher standards there.
Who cares what his intentions are? Is this about Vox, or is it about whether or not NG stuff should be added to the site?
I don't see how it makes a lick of difference if we have a few NG boards up on there, it certainly won't detract from anything.
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Don't forget my camp. People having OS3.x+OS4.x+MOS+AROS machines.
There are four individual camps as stated above, some may "belong" to more than one. As do I, currently to only 3 of them because I sold my BPPC and can no longer run OS4.
Better?
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CUSA had a serious lack of fans in any camp. Pretty much universally hated by everyone, so I don't see any reason to hold Vox to higher standards there.
Who cares what his intentions are?
I care and I'm not the only one either.
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Not the best example, since a toaster -would- probably be in an Amiga, whether in the kitchen or elsewhere. Heh.
Let's go with Amiga® Jacuzzi instead:
http://www.tubz.com/jacuzzi_amiga.htm
#6
I chose toaster for a reason. ;)
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NG Amiga OS hardware in BBoAH has been on the to-do list for a very long time....
Please note - I have classic only myself.
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the question one should ask is: "Does it run AMIGA OS?"
Absolutely not. My pc can run Amiga OS, and is NOT an Amiga.
In these (hopefully) modern times, the OS should matter more. Things done "the Amiga way".
Amiga is the name of a computer from history, it refers to HARDWARE, and the OS is irrelevant.
I think some limit "the Amiga" by restricting it to (maybe fabled by now) custom silicon.
But that's what Amigas are. They're computers based on custom (chipset), and not so custom hardware (68k).
It's probably more relevant to think: what hardware is 'Amiga OS specific'?
No, it's not. General purpose computers are never OS specific. Amiga OS specific hardware doesn't exist, and that includes actual Amigas.
:biglaugh: I think Amigan 'purists' are insane now.
You're calling people insane for pointing out that Amigas are computers from a few decades ago, and not accept the whole 'If it runs anything that even just looks like Amiga OS, then it's an Amiga' thing. It's you guys who need to wake up and stop wanting your non-Amiga computers to magically become Amigas, because it ain't ever gonna happen.
And no, people who know what Amigas really are (is that even such a difficult thing to know?), will not call your non-Amiga computers Amigas just because you want the machines to be Amigas.
When times change, you change with them, or get changed to the past forever.
Amiga IS the past (in the sense that they haven't been made for a long time). Just like the Atari ST, Commodore 64, MSX, ZX Spectrum, and all other home computers from the eighties.
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NG Amiga OS hardware in BBoAH has been on the to-do list for a very long time....
Please note - I have classic only myself.
Ah, is this the new BBOAH announced a few months back.
What do the other BBOAH(s) that have been running longer have to say? In particular the one run by Germans that took over from the original when it closed its doors?
I count three/four at least. Which one is yours?
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/
http://www.bboah.com/
http://www.bboah-works.de/
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/
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http://www.bboah.com/index.php?search=ppc&submit=Go&action=search
http://www.bboah.com/index.php?search=powerpc&submit=Go&action=search
http://www.bboah-works.de/bboahfaq/index.php?search=ppc&submit=Go&action=search
http://www.bboah-works.de/bboahfaq/index.php?search=powerpc&submit=Go&action=search
As expected, only Amiga specific hardware.
I tried searching for 'ppc' and 'powerpc' on http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/ but it's search function doesn't work on OWB, kind of ironic.
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Ah, is this the new BBOAH announced a few months back.
What do the other BBOAH(s) that have been running longer have to say? In particular the one run by Germans that took over from the original when it closed its doors?
I count three/four at least. Which one is yours?
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/
http://www.bboah.com/
http://www.bboah-works.de/
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/
It's in his profile:
IT's also the only one that gives the impression of still being updated.
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com
#6
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Absolutely not. My pc can run Amiga OS, and is NOT an Amiga.
Amiga is the name of a computer from history, it refers to HARDWARE, and the OS is irrelevant.
But that's what Amigas are. They're computers based on custom (chipset), and not so custom hardware (68k).
No, it's not. General purpose computers are never OS specific. Amiga OS specific hardware doesn't exist, and that includes actual Amigas.
You're calling people insane for pointing out that Amigas are computers from a few decades ago, and not accept the whole 'If it runs anything that even just looks like Amiga OS, then it's an Amiga' thing. It's you guys who need to wake up and stop wanting your non-Amiga computers to magically become Amigas, because it ain't ever gonna happen.
And no, people who know what Amigas really are (is that even such a difficult thing to know?), will not call your non-Amiga computers Amigas just because you want the machines to be Amigas.
Amiga IS the past (in the sense that they haven't been made for a long time). Just like the Atari ST, Commodore 64, MSX, ZX Spectrum, and all other home computers from the eighties.
Some contradictions there.
At any rate, if the website there is to be dedicated to the 'Commodore Amiga' hardware, then nothing whatsoever should come after the bankruptcy of Commodore. That puts it pre-1996. The whole site should be dedicated to about ten years or so. 1985-to-1996. Everything thereafter was a 'fork'.
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There are four "camps".
Amiga + Amiga OS
AmigaOne + AmigaOS
Various hardware + MorphOS
Various hardware + AROS
Do you want Vox to start "modernizing" old entries too ???? :p
Various hardware + Amithlon
Various hardware + Winuae
Various hardware + Amikit
Various hardware + Amiga Forever
Those are even more Amigas probably because they can run actual OS 3.9
and software for it ...
Covering AOS4 Morphos and Aros should be enough though ...
Especially Aros68k , it's the one most related to BBOAH ...
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Do you want Vox to start "modernizing" old entries too ???? :p
Various hardware + Amithlon
Various hardware + Winuae
Various hardware + Amikit
Various hardware + Amiga Forever
Those are even more Amigas probably because they can run actual OS 3.9
and software for it ...
Covering AOS4 Morphos and Aros should be enough though ...
Especially Aros68k , it's the one most related to BBOAH ...
And of course, Commodore Amiga Mini with C-OS.
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Some contradictions there.
Nope. Amigas are general purpose computers that can run more than just Amiga Os. Amigas aren't limited to Amiga OS in any way, and were never designed to only run Amiga OS; they were designed as general purpose computers that can run anything. This applies to all general purpose computers, and not just the Amiga.
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Nope. Amigas are general purpose computers that can run more than just Amiga Os. Amigas aren't limited to Amiga OS in any way, and were never designed to only run Amiga OS; they were designed as general purpose computers that can run anything. This applies to all general purpose computers, and not just the Amiga.
I know what Amigas are, thanks. :-)
And all you're saying is: Amiga is OS-agnostic.
But in the same breath, you're saying that Amiga OS is irrelevant, and also that a PC isn't an Amiga just because it can run Amiga OS.
:lol:
I stand by all I've ever said. The classic Amiga machines, though they still work after all these years, are not being manufactured anymore (and if they were, they'd be laughed at, if the specs didn't change) and, thus, in that respect, they're dead and gone. That is what is irrelevant these days: the amiga classic machines (despite SOME still using them). I've got a classic; my brother has classic Amiga machines. They all still work, but none are as powerful as what is available in the PC world these days.
So that only really leaves the "Amiga OS" as a focus for what can be "Amiga" now. And much--as misguided as some of it was--has come since the Commodore bankruptcy, and some did bear the name "Amiga"; and was from a company called "Amiga".
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It's in his profile:
IT's also the only one that gives the impression of still being updated.
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com
#6
It doesn't work on Amiga/MorphOS browsers unfortunately.