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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: curtis on August 01, 2013, 04:53:17 PM
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I'm in the process of expanding an A2000 I picked up a while back.
So far, I've added a kipper2 8MB memory card.
Got a minimeg installed for 2MB chip RAM which gives me a total of 10MB!
Am considering using a cfide68K for the hard drive. Now that mkl has figured out the IDE hard drive problem with the adapter, it'd be perfect.
Probably add a ROM switcher just for s&g's.
Anyone else ever try this? I know it kind of defeats the purpose of the slots for the A2000, but it's still kinda cool looking!
Curtis
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Awesome! I'm building up my own A2000 right now going a more traditional route, but would love to see build pics of yours as you progress! :)
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hmmm I was wondering if the Kipper2k board would work with an Amiga 2000. I may pull it from my Amiga 500 and put it in my 2000...
( and move my super denise into the 2000 as well )
:) or just buy another one of each... :):afro: <-- i think that means cool...
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With an IDE-to-SATA adapter, you might be able to put in a Solid State Drive (SSD) and run things faster and cooler. :D
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hmmm I was wondering if the Kipper2k board would work with an Amiga 2000. I may pull it from my Amiga 500 and put it in my 2000...
( and move my super denise into the 2000 as well )
:) or just buy another one of each... :):afro: <-- i think that means cool...
I actually just emailed Kipper2K yesterday to ask if one could use his 8MB board underneath the processor + a card in the accelerator slot... wasn't sure if sticking something in the A2000 accelerator slot completely disables the 68000 socket or not? Will let you know when I hear back! :)
...or just buy another of each, that's cool too. :D
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I actually just emailed Kipper2K yesterday to ask if one could use his 8MB board underneath the processor + a card in the accelerator slot... wasn't sure if sticking something in the A2000 accelerator slot completely disables the 68000 socket or not? Will let you know when I hear back! :)
...or just buy another of each, that's cool too. :D
That ram would be 16BIT and a lot slower than the 32BIT RAM on an accelerator and thus actually using it will slow you down almost as much as not having an accelerator at all... as long as the RAM priority is set correctly, it should not be detrimental, just not not overly useful. If it did work, perhaps it would be useful for Z-II DMA on a HD controller.
I would be interested in hearing if it would work though :)
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@bbond007 and @waltermixxx:
I received this response from Kipper2K last night:
"This board will autoconfig fastmem at mem location 200000 – 9fffff. I know it will work in the A2000 with a few configurations but I am not sure what else you have, if it sits in the same mem location as my board then it will cause a conflict."
So it sounds like it will work on a regular A2000, the thing I'm trying to do is a little more unique - add 8MB into the 68000 socket in addition to the 16MB on my 040 card, guess I will have to check what the address space of that memory is, but I'm guessing it's mapped high 32-bit, so as long as the 68000 socket isn't completely disabled when adding something into the accelerator slot it should work and not cause conflict. As long as the priority of the 32-bit ram is higher, that is, LOL. ;)
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Yeah, I'm 100% sure 32bit ram is outside ZII range. Otherwise you could never see 16MB, 32MB, etc...
When I had my A2000, I know I had 32MB 32bit on my PP&S 040 and 4MB 16bit ram on my GVP 4008 SCSI with GURU ROM. The 4MB on the board was utilized by the guru for DMA as ZII can't DMA into 32BIT ram.
Does the kipper board let you disable 4MB? I'm guessing, you'd run into trouble if you tried to add a ZII GFX board.
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Does the kipper board let you disable 4MB? I'm guessing, you'd run into trouble if you tried to add a ZII GFX board.
He makes both a 4MB and an 8MB model. Thinking ahead, I suppose! ;)
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Well, I'm thinking I'm going to have to pass on the CFIDE68K adapter as when I add the Vortex 286 board, it sticks up too high with the IDE adapter installed!
I've got a Dataflyer IDE and will probably use it, but have a question. Can you run a CD-ROM drive with the Dataflyer?
I know the Dataflyer uses a special format program, but there isn't anything in the manual regarding a CD drive!
Actually, I may have to do some hacksaw work on the drive cage as the Vortex/kipper2 stack is touching the bottom of the drive/power supply support. Tried both ways with the memory expansion on top and bottom. No joy!
Bummer!
Oh, BTW, I also added a Indivision so I've got VGA output without an Amber card! Guess I'll have to change the name of the thread to using only 1 slot!
Curtis
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Pics?
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Pics?
Decided to pass on the Vortex 286 board as with the memory module it would intrude with the support for the floppies and power supply.
Fitted the CFIDE68K and it's a bit lower so I think I'll go with a bridgeboard IF I decide I want DOS/Winblows compatibility. Does anyone know if 3.1 will work with a bridgeboard? The ROM I've got in there right now is 3.1. Guess I could use a switcher with 1.3 if 3.1 doesn't support the bridgeboards.
@TheMagicM. Here's some pictures. Note the clearance between the "stack" and the support. Not a whole lot of room there!
Looking at the pictures you'll notice there is ZERO clearance between the "stack" and the minimeg! Guess you could take a Dremel tool to the memory module...
Also, looking at the second picture you'll see the Indivision adapter for vga output.
Third picture shows there's only 1/4" clearance in this configuration. Better than with the Vortex 286 where there was negative 1/4" clearance! Yeah, it was actually forcing the metal UP!
Had to boost the stack with 2 sockets to clear the ROM chip. That really pushes things up!
Curtis
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I just hope to one day land an Amiga 4000T. It's always been a dream of mine! But, they cost way too much.
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Well, hit a major snag in this project.
I had decided to go with a GVP 030 combo board for the cpu accelerator. Yeah, using 1 slot.
Picked up a good working board, thanks DutchinUSA, dropped it in and suddenly my CFIDE68K adapter, CD-ROM, and expanded memory disappeared!
It seems the GVP combo board disables the cpu socket AND everything in it so anything plugged in there is a fleeting memory unless I disable the GVP board which sort of defeats the purpose of having it in there.
Considered rigging a switch to disable the combo board if I wanted to use the other stuff, but it didn't really make sense to have anything in the computer that wasn't being used!
So I've decided to go a little more conventional route and use the combo board as memory expansion, SCSI interface, and (obviously) cpu accelerator.
Still, I've got the vga output using an Indivision vga adapter without using a slot.
Anyway, I proved the concept is feasible to a point. Perhaps even more so if an accelerator for an A500 is used that plugs into the cpu socket.
So, next stop for my A2000, a SCSI media reader so I can boot from a CF microdrive and read other format memory cards. Add a SCSI CD-ROM, and a 386SX bridgeboard!
Should be pretty nice.
Pictures to come later, after I get the CD drive!
Curtis
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Yep, the Kipper2k board definitely looks like the way to go.
When I stop playing with alternative ISAs long enough, I intend to install one in my A2000.
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Thanks for the pics. Its a tight fit but definitely a cool project.
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It seems the GVP combo board disables the cpu socket AND everything in it so anything plugged in there is a fleeting memory unless I disable the GVP board which sort of defeats the purpose of having it in there.
Yeah, you shouldn't use 68000 socket expansions in an A2000. If you want to use them then you'd be better off with an A500.
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I'm in the process of expanding an A2000 I picked up a while back.
So far, I've added a kipper2 8MB memory card.
Got a minimeg installed for 2MB chip RAM which gives me a total of 10MB!
Am considering using a cfide68K for the hard drive. Now that mkl has figured out the IDE hard drive problem with the adapter, it'd be perfect.
Probably add a ROM switcher just for s&g's.
Anyone else ever try this? I know it kind of defeats the purpose of the slots for the A2000, but it's still kinda cool looking!
Curtis
Why do all this to a machine that has a proper expansion bus curtis. You are way better off bang for buck using a gvp 030 board or some such. especially since 32bit ram is way better than 16bit ram,and onboard scsi is a plus. all the dongle type things are neet and all but generally not as reliable as a cpu slot accelerator in the long run. If you really want a bridgeboard,go for the C= 2088,2286 or 2386.. 286 boards are pretty easy to find and relatively cheap-they allow you to share amiga side cdroms,floppies and even use isa vga gfx cards and soundcards for the pee-cee side.. 2088's are semi useful maybe as a low end dos box lol.
Take advantage of the slots,it is what they are there for ;)
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Mechy, I was just trying to see what could be done!
Yeah, it's easier to use the slots, but sometimes you just have to try something to see if you can do it. Sort of like the last words of a redneck, "Hold my beer and watch this!"
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Mechy, I was just trying to see what could be done!
Yeah, it's easier to use the slots, but sometimes you just have to try something to see if you can do it. Sort of like the last words of a redneck, "Hold my beer and watch this!"
Don't get me wrong, it does work. I have used a csa derringer 030/50 with 32MB ram in a 2000 long ago,which fits in the 68000 socket.The IVS vector 030/50 was also a great card which used the cpu slot with the same spec and decent scsi on board. it was a darn good card and probabaly better than the gvp stuff in some ways,72 pin simms was a plus on the derringer and the vector used standard 30pin ram!
We all enjoy hearing about your trials with this hardware also.
good luck
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We all enjoy hearing about your trials with this hardware also.
Ditto this! This thread is chock full of tips to help expand my own A2000 project! ;)
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I got some ideas too, for my A2000. An Indivision (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=918) ECS will be on the way and I'll trade that for the Microway AGA 2000 it's been using.
I'll stay with the GVP 030 (unless I can find an 040 I can afford), But for now this thing doesn't miss a beat.
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A quick update on progress so far.
Pulled the kipper2 memory expansion and the CFIDE68K since with the GVP 030 combo card they were just drawing electricity and not doing any good. They'll find a new home in an A500 when I finish with this project.
Next was planning on dropping a 2286 bridgeboard upgraded to a 486SX, but suddenly remembered bridgeboards don't like more than 6MB of RAM and there is no way to configure the memory on the combo board to push 3 banks of memory to outside the Zorro map area, so it's out.
Finally installed a media reader with the compact flash/microdrive as the boot device. Added a CD drive and turned it on. No boot!
Checked the addresses on the media reader and CD. For some strange reason the media reader has to be set as device 6 to boot.
It also appears that with the media reader set as device 6 any address I set the CD to will not allow the media reader to be bootable. The system tried to boot from the CD. So out the CD drive goes! It'll be installed in an external case and plugged into that side of the SCSI chain.
Out or curiosity and to refresh my (obviously) failing memory, does SCSI automatically default to the lowest device number for booting?
So, anyway, I'm up to 1 card in the A2000 and I only plan to add one more card, the Thylacine I have laying around.
Curtis
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What media card reader are you using? If it's one of the Mechware ones, I use them successfully in both my A500 (with external CD drive) and A2000 (with internal CD drive). You might want to check your termination jumper, otherwise you should have no problem running an internal CD. Using an external chassis to house the CD drive seems like a huge waste of space. ;)
It shouldn't matter what your device ID is for booting, I boot from 0, or 1, or 5, or whatever. All that matters is that the devices are set to different ID's, terminated correctly, and show up as "bootable" when you open the Early Startup screen.
Also AFAIK most GVP accelerators map their memory into the 32-bit address space, so shouldn't conflict with the 16-bit address space limitations of the bridgeboard. Try running SysInfo, it should tell you if the memory is 32-bit or not.
Also, good luck with that Thylacine! It's a dog in my A2000, laggy and slow when it even detects a device at all (or doesn't freeze up), and this is with an '040. I've been meaning to try it with the original Thylacine software instead of Poseidon and see if that's any better, otherwise I'll be selling it on. Really seems to need A3000/A4000 ZIII bus.
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It will be a couple of days before I have time to get the model number on the media reader. Christmas time is a bit hectic!
However, IF I remember correctly, it's a SMC. Just don't hold me to that.
Curtis
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Okay, the media reader is the SCM PCD-50B.
Tried finding a manual for it online. No joy. Since it's the same thing that mechy sells, I may drop him a line and see if he's got a scanned copy I can get from him.
However, I also did some checking on the CD drive I was using, a TEAC CD-56S. Come to find out, to DE-activate the terminator on it, you put the shorting block in place, NOT REMOVE IT! Totally bass-ackwards of what I was expecting.
Since it's now bedtime for this tired old body of mine, I'm going to try it with the shorting block in place tomorrow after I get off work. I strongly suspect I may have some interesting results to report...
Stand by to stand by!
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I was going to suggest checking with Mechy! ;) I was confused by mine at first, too (I have a pair of the 60 models) and he was able to set me straight.
If it helps you at all, on my A2000 system I've got the internal CD-R drive set as unit 0 (with no termination) and the card reader set as unit 1 (with termination jumper installed). It was just easier to route the cable this way, coming up from beneath the drive sled, hitting the CD and then the card reader. I use a few different cards but my default configuration is with a CF in the PCMCIA adapter (LUN 0) as my main OS3.9 system, a second CF in the CF slot as OS3.1 (backup), an SD card (LUN 3) installed and formatted as FAT95, and occasionally I've set up a partition on an xD card for backups, as well. The only slots I have yet to use are the SmartMedia and Memory Stick ones, LOL.
Trust me, it all works, but you may have to do a little bit of poking around or messing with Mountlists, especially if you want to do crazy things like have one of the drives set up running PFS and another running FAT95, and I can pretty much promise you there will be some cursing involved, but at the end of the day it all works pretty darn well. HDToolbox should detect the card reader as one device, and address all the slots as individual LUN's, just remember to check the "bootable" box and set your boot priority correct for whichever cards you install an OS on. :mickeymouse:
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Well, turning the termination on the CD didn't help a bit.
Tried setting the ID on the CD from 1-5 with no change.
Tried switching places on the cable. Didn't make a bit of difference.
No matter whether the CD is terminated or not, in any position on the cable, any address; if the CD is in the chain, the SCM is not recognized.
Oh, did notice one other odd thing. With the CD in the SCSI chain, when I turn the computer on, I get 6 short flashes on the power light and a dark gray screen.
So, I'm really thinking about bowing to the invertible and taking the CD external.
However, to keep the space from going to waste, I am going to try and mount the 286 board in the computer and poke a microdrive reader in that space.
On the 286 board, I found a "Make It 486" adapter that swaps out the 286 processor for a Cyrix 486 clocking at double the clock speed. That should be interesting to see how it runs.
Updates later...
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No matter whether the CD is terminated or not, in any position on the cable, any address; if the CD is in the chain, the SCM is not recognized.
Oh, did notice one other odd thing. With the CD in the SCSI chain, when I turn the computer on, I get 6 short flashes on the power light and a dark gray screen.
So, I'm really thinking about bowing to the invertible and taking the CD external.
As another thought, it really sounds like there's some issue with your CD drive. It's a standard 50-pin SCSI, correct? Have you considered just trying with another drive? It really sounds like yours may have some defect. The card reader works fine without the CD drive in the chain, correct? I've bought 50-pin SCSI drives on ebay before for under $5 each, shouldn't break the bank. ;)
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Actually dude, it's really messing with my OCD-thing to think that someone with an A2000 would have to use an external drive. I've got this here drive that I bought with a bulk lot of other Amiga items recently. As you can see from the pics it's mounted in an external housing, but internally it's just a regular 50-pin SCSI drive. I'd be glad to sell you this one for $5 plus shipping from VA. You could remove it from it's external chassis and try to mount it internally (in the chain with the card reader), and if that still fails just throw it back in it's external housing. Interested?
Note - I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but everything else I bought from that lot has worked fine. You may need a Centronics-connector termination block for external use, or the termination jumper on the drive may be enough... let me know and I'll try to dig one of those out and throw in with it, too, if you need one. ;)
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As another thought, it really sounds like there's some issue with your CD drive. It's a standard 50-pin SCSI, correct? Have you considered just trying with another drive? It really sounds like yours may have some defect. The card reader works fine without the CD drive in the chain, correct? I've bought 50-pin SCSI drives on ebay before for under $5 each, shouldn't break the bank. ;)
Guess that's possible. Picked it up on fleabay with the owner saying it was pulled from a working computer. Starting to suspect the computer was working, but the drive wasn't! That or it was the only thing on the SCSI chain.
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Sent a PM to Oldsmobile_Mike taking him up on his offer of the external drive.
So, will move on to installing the bridgeboard while waiting for his drive to come in.
Curtis
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Well, this thread has been dormant a bit too long. Time for an update.
Got the drive from Oldsmobile_Mike and dropped it in. SCSI chain didn't lock up but the silly thing would not recognize when there was a disk in it!
Spent several nights trying to get AMICDFS to recognize a disk in the drive. No soap. FINALLY figured out the drive was the problem, not the driver software!
Picked up another drive on fleabay and dropped it in. Worked like a champ!
Installed OS3.9 with no problems.
Still trying to get the Thylacine to be recognized, but at least the machine is working now.
Also have a question for the general population.
I'm thinking of adding internet capability to the machine. Since I have a media reader that has a PCMCIA slot was wondering if it would be easier to go with a PCMCIA adapter, either wired or wireless, or drop in an ethernet adapter into a Zorro slot.
Comments would be greatly appreciated.
Curtis
p.s. Mike, don't worry about the drive. The external case it came in was worth the money I paid for the drive and case. I'lll use it somewhere.
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Eep, sorry about the drive, it's always hit-or-miss with this old hardware, you can use that external case with a different drive, HD, or even your media card reader, anything that has a 50-pin SCSI interface. I've done some weird hacks with my other one to get around copying files between multiple devices, etc. Good to keep around! :D
I forget - is your media card reader one of the Mechware ones? If so, you won't be able to use a PCMCIA ethernet adapter. Those slots only work for storage, it's not the same as the PCMCIA slot in an A600/1200.
Thylacine is a slug under Zorro II, I'm not happy with mine, planning on ditching it as soon as they do another run of X-Surf 100's and then just waiting for the USB to be finished on those. But that's definitely the fastest way to add networking... from what I hear the X-Surf 100 pretty much smokes everything else... supposedly a new production run coming in February. Fingers crossed! ;)
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Mike, don't worry about it. Like I said the price was good for just the case which, like you said, can be used for a ton of stuff!
Yeah, that media card reader is like the one Mechy sells. So guess a PCMCIA ethernet card is out.
Looked up the X-Surf 100 and that sounds like the deal! Checked Vesalia and ETA is Feb of this year, so hopefully we'll both score!
Now to figure out how to get the Thylacine and Bridgeboard working.
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Looked up the X-Surf 100 and that sounds like the deal! Checked Vesalia and ETA is Feb of this year, so hopefully we'll both score!
Hi Curtis!
I just got an email from this company that they have X-Surf 100's in-stock:
http://amigastore.eu/en/204-x-surf-100.html
Funny, I'd never heard of them until I picked up a copy of Amiga Future and saw their ad. :idea: I'm going to order one this week, will let you know how it goes!
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Definitely keep me posted.
I've never heard of the either! Prices look comparable to amigakit and vesalia tho.
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Hi Curtis!
I just got an email from this company that they have X-Surf 100's in-stock:
http://amigastore.eu/en/204-x-surf-100.html
Funny, I'd never heard of them until I picked up a copy of Amiga Future and saw their ad. :idea: I'm going to order one this week, will let you know how it goes!
Why do these deals always pop up when I am flat! I hope they will around in three weeks or so.... I am not up on this card - obviously zorro II, are fast enough for real use?
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Why do these deals always pop up when I am flat! I hope they will around in three weeks or so.... I am not up on this card - obviously zorro II, are fast enough for real use?
@Motrucker - try ordering one, the price actually went down after I added it to my cart and started filling out my order info. Win! Very slick website they've got, BTW.
There's another thread here on amiga.org where a bunch of users posted their speed test results with this card and Roadshow. Of course most of them are on ZIII-equipped systems, will have to see what I get on ZII, but yes, the card is supposed to be able to switch speeds depending on the bus. Not looking forward to trying to figure out Roadshow, might try it with Genesis or Miami first.
Another thing I'm not too keen on is the USB ports on the card aren't active yet (waiting on an update), but since I want this mainly for the Ethernet that's not too big a concern.
Will let y'all know how it works out, am sure I'll post some middle-of-the-night rant if I can't figure it out, LOL. ;)
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I would use the card strictly for connecting to a network (internet). Don't really care about USB - I think all Zorro USB ideas are to slow?
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Well, guess the title of this thread should be changed to Expanded A2000 using only 1 slot!
Final configuration is:
GVP 030 Combo board with 16MB RAM, 40MHz '030 cpu,
2MB chip RAM upgrade,
Indivision ECS for VGA output,
SMC media reader booting OS 3.9 off of a 2GB microdrive.
While I was putting it all back together, I was looking in there and thinking those slots sure do look wasted!
I was kicking around the idea of dropping in a 2286 bridgeboard that I've upgraded to a 486, but couldn't get my hard drive controller to work on the PC side AND the BLASTED thing doesn't have an external floppy port! Only bridgeboard that didn't come with an external floppy port!
If anybody wants pictures, let me know and I'll get them posted.
Curtis
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@Motrucker - try ordering one, the price actually went down after I added it to my cart and started filling out my order info. Win! Very slick website they've got, BTW.
There's another thread here on amiga.org where a bunch of users posted their speed test results with this card and Roadshow. Of course most of them are on ZIII-equipped systems, will have to see what I get on ZII, but yes, the card is supposed to be able to switch speeds depending on the bus. Not looking forward to trying to figure out Roadshow, might try it with Genesis or Miami first.
Another thing I'm not too keen on is the USB ports on the card aren't active yet (waiting on an update), but since I want this mainly for the Ethernet that's not too big a concern.
Will let y'all know how it works out, am sure I'll post some middle-of-the-night rant if I can't figure it out, LOL. ;)
Mike, go with Roadshow. Easier to setup than Miami or EasyNet. I tried all 3 and roadshow is super easy and performs the fastest....