Amiga.org

Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: Pyromania on July 29, 2013, 06:37:36 PM

Title: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: Pyromania on July 29, 2013, 06:37:36 PM
I'll be adding an Electric car section to the Coffee House section of Amiga.org soon. Electric cars are like the Amiga Tech of the car industry, misunderstood, trolled and strong feelings for and against them. Like an Amiga when you try one you will understand why owners love them. Personally I bought an Electric car in March 2013 and it saves me about $380 per month in gas not including saving in maintenance and wear and tear on my other gas cars. Sadly I have the Nissan Leaf and not the Tesla Model S which is the best one. Nissan has managed to sell about 100,000 Electric cars worldwide. I am able to plug-in to most places in the Chicago area for free. The Coffee House has been around for a long time and has many sections I have no interest in. I keep it around because some Amiga.org members like it. I hope others that have a love of technology enjoy the new section and buy their own electrified cars. Great way to save money, help the earth and get rid of some of that nasty cancer causing smog!
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: commodorejohn on July 29, 2013, 07:05:54 PM
Putting aside all other issues with electric cars, even if other Aorg members give a crap, there just isn't a subforum's worth of stuff to say about them. If you want to talk about them, just start a dang thread.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: SysAdmin on July 29, 2013, 07:08:50 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;742963
Putting aside all other issues with electric cars, even if other Aorg members give a crap, there just isn't a subforum's worth of stuff to say about them. If you want to talk about them, just start a dang thread.


More Electric car news comes out then Amiga/MorphOS/AROS news combined.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: commodorejohn on July 29, 2013, 07:16:36 PM
And? That doesn't mean anybody cares about it, or that there's anything worth saying about it beyond that.

Just leave off the delusions of grandeur and start a dang thread like the rest of us mere mortals.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: spirantho on July 29, 2013, 07:41:02 PM
This is a bit of a worrying precedent.
Electric cars have as much to do with Amigas as they do lederhosen - i.e. nothing at all.

Can't we just stick to Amigas on the Amiga forum? It's not like the forum is dead or anything.

I hope the sysadmins didn't just pick a random controversial topic to make a subforum of just to get postings and advertising revenues up... that's an even more worrying precedent.

Please, let's keep Amiga.org about Amigas. Let's not water it down - there's enough specialised forums for things like electric cars that people can go to if they have that interest.
I may not agree with a fair amount of what's said on this forum, but at least it's Amiga-related.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: klx300r on July 29, 2013, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: spirantho;742972
..
Please, let's keep Amiga.org about Amigas. Let's not water it down - there's enough specialised forums for things like electric cars that people can go to if they have that interest.
I may not agree with a fair amount of what's said on this forum, but at least it's Amiga-related.

+1
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: arttu80 on July 29, 2013, 08:02:56 PM
Quote from: spirantho;742972
This is a bit of a worrying precedent.
Electric cars have as much to do with Amigas as they do lederhosen - i.e. nothing at all.

Can't we just stick to Amigas on the Amiga forum? It's not like the forum is dead or anything.

I hope the sysadmins didn't just pick a random controversial topic to make a subforum of just to get postings and advertising revenues up... that's an even more worrying precedent.

Please, let's keep Amiga.org about Amigas. Let's not water it down - there's enough specialised forums for things like electric cars that people can go to if they have that interest.
I may not agree with a fair amount of what's said on this forum, but at least it's Amiga-related.


+1

I too enjoy cars (I own 80 Trans AM, 72 ElCamino, 97 Riviera supercharged, 96 Roadmaster LT-1, and some others great performers) and sometime even like to talk about em , BUT NOT on Amiga forum, dude! When I sit down, and open A.org I DON'T want to see any car b*****it.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: LoadWB on July 29, 2013, 08:10:43 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;742959
get rid of some of that nasty cancer causing smog!


Electricity comes from unicorn farts.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: SysAdmin on July 29, 2013, 08:13:29 PM
Quote from: spirantho;742972
This is a bit of a worrying precedent.
Electric cars have as much to do with Amigas as they do lederhosen - i.e. nothing at all.

Can't we just stick to Amigas on the Amiga forum? It's not like the forum is dead or anything.

I hope the sysadmins didn't just pick a random controversial topic to make a subforum of just to get postings and advertising revenues up... that's an even more worrying precedent.

Please, let's keep Amiga.org about Amigas. Let's not water it down - there's enough specialised forums for things like electric cars that people can go to if they have that interest.
I may not agree with a fair amount of what's said on this forum, but at least it's Amiga-related.


But Amiga.org has had a Coffee House sub-forum for ages. I have no interest in Coffee House Politics for example but I keep it around because members have been using it for years. If I had been around since the inception of Amiga.org sub-forums like politics would have never been created. They have nothing to do with Amiga computers. Electric cars on the other-hand because of being technologically ahead of their time and against the status quo get as much hate and FUD thrown at them as the Amiga had/has. Great tech thats misunderstood, sound familiar?

Don't forget Electric cars use electricity just like Amigas. I once read that if the world had continued to use Amiga's instead of Windows machines the cost of electricity saved since 1994 would be just shy of 1.6 trillion dollars. Don't worry I have more Amiga's than Electric cars so your beloved Amiga.org won't be a-changin.


:)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on July 29, 2013, 09:15:17 PM
I am actually interested in electric cars. However I guess the others are right, after the initial discussion there is not much more to say.

You could just put in a Cars (in general) CH section.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: commodorejohn on July 29, 2013, 09:19:46 PM
Quote from: SysAdmin;742979
But Amiga.org has had a Coffee House sub-forum for ages. I have no interest in Coffee House Politics for example but I keep it around because members have been using it for years. If I had been around since the inception of Amiga.org sub-forums like politics would have never been created. They have nothing to do with Amiga computers.
The difference is there's actually a subforum's worth of stuff to say about politics.

Quote
Electric cars on the other-hand because of being technologically ahead of their time and against the status quo get as much hate and FUD thrown at them as the Amiga had/has. Great tech thats misunderstood, sound familiar?
Even if we were to accept this assessment at face value (which I don't,) I could make the same argument about, say, LaserDisc, or the Dreamcast, or any number of other things. Do those deserve their own subforums here?

Just start a freaking topic if you want to talk about them. There is absolutely zero point to creating a subforum unless you're trying to change the entire direction of the site.

Quote from: LoadWB;742978
Electricity comes from unicorn farts.
This  is archaic thinking, man. Everyone knows that the new research into  leprechaun wishes is the real future of energy in this country.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: desiv on July 29, 2013, 09:27:05 PM
This is just silly..
If the SysAdmin wants a forum for Electric Cars, he can have one...

It's not like anyone is forcing anyone else to read the messages....
I never go to the Coffee House.  I know it's there, could care less, and yet it's being there doesn't negatively effect me in the slightest...

Sheesh..

desiv
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: SysAdmin on July 29, 2013, 09:35:02 PM
@commodorejohn

Per your suggestions I just added sub-forums for LaserDisc and the Dreamcast. Thanx for the feedback.

:)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: Bamiga2002 on July 29, 2013, 09:39:45 PM
Quote from: desiv;742992
This is just silly..
If the SysAdmin wants a forum for Electric Cars, he can have one...

Yes :), make a dang subforum for the dang electric cars and see all the countless posts just flowing in :D
(seriously...:smack:)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: commodorejohn on July 29, 2013, 09:46:21 PM
Quote from: desiv;742992
This is just silly..
If the SysAdmin wants a forum for Electric Cars, he can have one...

It's not like anyone is forcing anyone else to read the messages....
I never go to the Coffee House.  I know it's there, could care less, and yet it's being there doesn't negatively effect me in the slightest...
I disagree. The problem is that this is just another instance in a long line of instances of SysAdmin thinking that this site exists just to give him a preexisting audience for whatever he really wants it to be this month, like when he was stirring up the CUSA flamewars in a transparent attempt to drive site traffic, or shilling for shítty headphones. News flash, SysAdmin: Aorg is not about you. I don't want to sound like a total ingrate, but face the facts: it's just not. If you try to make it be about you, you're just going to drive away the people who want a forum about the Amiga, like so many people have been driven away already.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: SysAdmin on July 29, 2013, 09:51:43 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;743000
I disagree. The problem is that this is just another instance in a long line of instances of SysAdmin thinking that this site exists just to give him a preexisting audience for whatever he really wants it to be this month, like when he was stirring up the CUSA flamewars in a transparent attempt to drive site traffic, or shilling for shítty headphones. News flash, SysAdmin: Aorg is not about you. I don't want to sound like a total ingrate, but face the facts: it's just not. If you try to make it be about you, you're just going to drive away the people who want a forum about the Amiga, like so many people have been driven away already.

News-brief Tedd's gave the site to me and has been gone for a while. I was never a fan of CUSA and was against Tedd promoting them on the site, giving Barry interviews Etc. I was always against CUSA's strategy of trying to sell the Amiga community overpriced Linux boxes we never asked for. Tedd gave them a little more leeway but I think he was proven wrong in the end.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: Bamiga2002 on July 29, 2013, 09:51:51 PM
+1 1/2
You hit the nail on the head there c=johnny boy.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: desiv on July 29, 2013, 09:55:13 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;743000
The problem is that this is just another instance in a long line of instances of SysAdmin thinking that this site exists just to give him a preexisting audience for whatever he really wants it to be this month,.

It's not like that's the ONLY thing he does on this site..  Mostly, this site is great fun about Amiga stuff...

Now, does he ever do that?  Maybe...  Personally, I don't care...
It's his site..
As long as he doesn't take down the Amiga stuff, I'm good.  That's what I'm here for..
There is a lot of stuff on this site I'm not interested in.
I just ignore it....

Life is too short to be bothered by stuff that can be easily ignored...

..unless you enjoy bothering with it..  :swords:  ;)

desiv
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: commodorejohn on July 29, 2013, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: SysAdmin;743002
News-brief Tedd's gave the site to me and has been gone for a while. I was never a fan of CUSA and was against Tedd promoting them on the site, giving Barry interviews Etc. I was always against CUSA's strategy of trying to sell the Amiga community overpriced Linux boxes we never asked for. Tedd gave them a little more leeway but I think he was proven wrong in the end.
Well, that's good to hear (though it would clear up some of the confusion if there weren't one unified "SysAdmin" account so people have to keep track of who's running things to keep this all straight.) Nevertheless, my point stands: Aorg is about what Aorg has always been about, the Amiga. Trying to change or dilute the focus of that (particularly in a way that nobody here cares about - if people on this forum cared about electric cars, why are there no topics about them in the Coffee House already? What's a subforum going to do for that?) is just going to drive more people away.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: Bamiga2002 on July 29, 2013, 10:01:53 PM
Quote from: desiv;743005
It's his site..
As long as he doesn't take down the Amiga stuff, I'm good.  That's what I'm here for..
Let's see if we are facing another "60 minutes" site shutdown this time...
Methinks this site is for us Amigoids regardless of the owner.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: desiv on July 29, 2013, 10:04:42 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;743006
What's a subforum going to do for that?) is just going to drive more people away.


Really?

So, this is a viable conversation from your perspective:

Bob:  Hey Frank, I just found this great website..  Lots of great Amiga information
Frank:  Really, let me see..  Yep, covers a lot of topics, and has some great people willing to help out if  you have problems..
Bob:  Yep, and some fun and spirited discussions, this is just...er.. wait.. What's that?
Frank:  What's what?
Bob:  Did you scroll down?  There's a forum for Electric cars here!!!
Frank:  What?  On an Amiga site!!!  Well, that's it!  No matter the Amiga content, I'm out!
Bob: Me too!!!  Whew, that was a close one...

;-)

desiv
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: A6000 on July 29, 2013, 10:18:54 PM
I never look at the coffee house area, but I might find it interesting to read about electric cars now and then.
The hold-up with electric cars is battery technology, get that sorted and we'll all be driving them.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on July 29, 2013, 10:51:29 PM
As long as they don't show up on the main page I couldn't care less.  Go for it.  It *is* cool technology, but I'm surprised that there aren't already better forums out there for it.  For example when I want to go a forum about my pickup truck I go to coloradofans.com, I wouldn't ask for a sub-section on an Amiga website for my truck.  Isn't there already a, I dunno... leaffans.com or something?  ;)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: Lurch on July 29, 2013, 11:03:10 PM
At the end of the day it all comes down to keywords and ad revenue.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: A6000 on July 29, 2013, 11:11:36 PM
I remember an issue of practical computing in the late seventies that had an article about a pet 2001 removed from it's case and installed in a luxury car, so there is a tenuous connection between commodore and cars.:D
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: paul1981 on July 29, 2013, 11:38:11 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;743006
...if people on this forum cared about electric cars, why are there no topics about them in the Coffee House already? What's a subforum going to do for that?) is just going to drive more people away.

:laugh1:
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: mikrucio on July 30, 2013, 02:59:32 AM
electric cars are crap, most people are fooled into the idea that they save the environment
and is an alternative to fuel.

except there is one major problem.
you need more electricity, more electricity equals more nuclear power stations.
or more smoke stacks (coal)

Especially in Australia we are so freaking dumb that the government wont make nuclear power plants. so instead they choose to make more smoke stacks....
so more coal burnt = larger hole in the ozone layer = more problems for everyone.

even if you have nuclear power, most countries will still have smoke stacks as well.
making more electricity is not a solution.

in fact to be completely blunt with all of you, there is no human solution to this problem!
either way we go we are DOOMED!
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: SysAdmin on July 30, 2013, 03:37:11 AM
@mikrucio

If you are against Electric cars then you are against electricity. Please tell me you don't have electricity in your home or apartment. A EV car uses less eletric to charge up than an air conditioner. My electric costs went up about $35 per month. Please tell me you don't have electricity but then how could you be posting on Amiga.org?

:)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: commodorejohn on July 30, 2013, 04:11:20 AM
Quote from: SysAdmin;743038
A EV car uses less eletric to charge up than an air conditioner.
As in, it draws less power when charging than an air conditioner? It looks (if I'm reading this right) like that's marginally true for central AC (3300Kw/h for the Leaf versus ~3500Kw/h for the AC, about a 6% difference) but not remotely for a window unit (~1800Kw/h, 54% of the Leaf's power draw.) But the way I hear it, it takes a Leaf about eight hours to charge (from a dedicated charging station - more like 15-20 if you don't happen to have one of those handy and have to use a normal electrical outlet!) and it gets ~75-100 mi. per charge. Average miles per year for most drivers is about 15,000, so that's 150-200 charges, or 1200-1600 hours of charging per year. Whereas depending on the part of the country, AC is going to be running about 8-10 hours a day for about 1/4-2/5 of the year, or anywhere from 730-1461 hours per year, at no more than 6% greater power consumption and possibly little more than half.

Yeah, that definitely looks like a lower impact!
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on July 30, 2013, 04:17:01 AM
Air con plus heating. Easy for a car with a motor. Not easy for one with a battery in it.

There is a connection btw PowerPC was always sold as a greener CPU.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electricfied
Post by: Iggy on July 30, 2013, 04:33:55 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;742978
Electricity comes from unicorn farts.


No it isn't.
Electricity is just smoke.
I see it every time I break something the runs on electricity.

BTW - As the coffeehouse is for off topic discussions, I'm all in favor of starting this thread.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: amiman99 on July 30, 2013, 04:34:21 AM
I think is OK to have sub forums about topics completely unrelated to Amiga. Maybe you could call it "Current Tech", or "Current Events", something more generic, but that's up to the Admins.

I'm actually are looking into electric cars, I'm eyeing the new Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, but it looks like is getting delayed.

My reasons to get the PHEV (Plugin Hybrid) is economical and political.
Economical, so I can save money. It's estimated that equivalent cost of electricity is about $1 a "Gallon", compared to $3.50 avg today.
Political, I don't want to support/give money to the Middle East (I know that most oil companies are American or Western), but I want to support my local Electric Company, which is partly owed by the city, which means that my money stays in the community in which I live. also, I hate how the price of oil is tied to the stock market and events throughout the world.

So there is no environment cause in my purchase.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: agami on July 30, 2013, 05:01:29 AM
Quote from: mikrucio;743033
electric cars are crap, most people are fooled into the idea that they save the environment
and is an alternative to fuel.

except there is one major problem.
you need more electricity, more electricity equals more nuclear power stations.
or more smoke stacks (coal)

Especially in Australia we are so freaking dumb that the government wont make nuclear power plants. so instead they choose to make more smoke stacks....
so more coal burnt = larger hole in the ozone layer = more problems for everyone.


As a fellow Australian I agree that we should have nuclear power plants.
And whilst more electricity consumption will require more electricity production it need not come from coal, though most of it will in our enormously vacant land.
The side-effect is that there is a reduction of fuel refineries, fuel tankers on the roads, off-shore fuel drilling and oil tankers.

Quote from: mikrucio;743033
even if you have nuclear power, most countries will still have smoke stacks as well.
making more electricity is not a solution.


Nuclear power plants have cooling towers from which water vapour clouds billow, not smoke.

Quote from: mikrucio;743033
in fact to be completely blunt with all of you, there is no human solution to this problem!
either way we go we are DOOMED!


Actually, all the solutions to this problem are human. We are not waiting for divine intervention, well not the ones actually working on the solutions.

The fact is, converting electrical energy to the kinetic energy of the vehicles motion is more efficient than that derived from the internal combustion engine. So even with brown coal electric plants, less pollution is created for every kilometer traveled vs. a kilometer backed by fossil fuels.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: SysAdmin on July 30, 2013, 06:57:30 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;743041
As in, it draws less power when charging  than an air conditioner? It looks (if I'm reading this right) like  that's marginally true for central AC (3300Kw/h for the Leaf versus  ~3500Kw/h for the AC, about a 6% difference) but not remotely for a  window unit (~1800Kw/h, 54% of the Leaf's power draw.) But the way I  hear it, it takes a Leaf about eight hours to charge (from a dedicated  charging station - more like 15-20 if you don't happen to have one of  those handy and have to use a normal electrical outlet!) and it gets  ~75-100 mi. per charge. Average miles per year for most drivers is about  15,000, so that's 150-200 charges, or 1200-1600 hours of charging per  year. Whereas depending on the part of the country, AC is going to be  running about 8-10 hours a day for about 1/4-2/5 of the year, or  anywhere from 730-1461 hours per year, at no more than 6% greater power  consumption and possibly little more than half.

Yeah, that definitely looks like a lower impact!

Nissan Leaf only takes 3.5 hours to charge if you have a 240 volt  charger. And that's if you have a fully depleted the battery.  It's  unusual to do that unless you drive great distances daily. If that's the  case an EV car is not the right solution for you. Even when I charged  using 110 volt it was done in 10-12 hours. You can even find 480 volt  chargers that charge your car in 30 minutes. If your driving around town  most charging stations are 240 volt and free. If I go shopping I charge  for free and I am able to charge for free close to where I work. Keep  in mind no one is being asked or forced to replace their gas car with an  EV. It just provides another choice in the market. If electric cars get  popular it will make the demand for gas go down and hopefully the  price. Then even if you never buy a EV and still drive a gas car you  benefit from lower gas prices (supply vs demand). I drive 100 miles per day so before the electric car I was paying $380 per month in gas and kept getting slammed with high maintenance costs. Since March when I got the EV my transportation costs have gone to $35 per month (I charge for free at work). And my maintenance costs have been $20 for a cabin filter replacement on my EV. I don't want to breath in unfiltered air from the other cars that are running on gas!
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: commodorejohn on July 30, 2013, 07:29:47 AM
Nobody's being forced to replace their car with an EV car, but a lot of people sure are getting told how unqualifiedly awesome* and Totally The Future Of Driving** they are by EV car advocates...

* (as long as you have a good charging infrastructure everywhere you'll be driving, don't mind decreased driving range when using your climate controls, and have a contingency plan for running out of juice)
** (in <100 mi. hops, with hours of downtime in between)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: SysAdmin on July 30, 2013, 07:37:40 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;743054
Nobody's being forced to replace their car with an EV car, but a lot of people sure are getting told how unqualifiedly awesome* and Totally The Future Of Driving** they are by EV car advocates...

* (as long as you have a good charging infrastructure everywhere you'll be driving, don't mind decreased driving range when using your climate controls, and have a contingency plan for running out of juice)
** (in <100 mi. hops, with hours of downtime in between)

I use the A/C in my EV almost every-time I drive and it makes me lose 2 miles of range. All locations don't have an EV infrastructure in place yet and your right that is something to check ahead of time before buying an EV. Electric cars just like sports cars, SUVs, trucks, etc are not the right transportation solution for everyone. Running out of juice or gas would suck in anything you are driving.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: commodorejohn on July 30, 2013, 07:49:08 AM
The difference is that running out of gas you can catch a ride to the station and take a few gallons in a can - you can't just go and buy another of the monster seat-sized batteries the Leaf uses off the shelf!
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: SysAdmin on July 30, 2013, 07:53:04 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;743060
The difference is that running out of gas you can catch a ride to the station and take a few gallons in a can - you can't just go and buy another of the monster seat-sized batteries the Leaf uses off the shelf!

I'm not sure about other cities but here in Chicago Nissan gives me free towing and the tow truck can give me a quick charge or tow me to the nearest charging station.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: don27dog on July 30, 2013, 10:32:58 AM
I am not so much into electric cars but I have been tinkering with e-bikes for a few years now. My current mountain bike runs on 48v 20AH lifepo4 battery with a 2000W controller with a range of about 35 miles and top speed around 35 mph. My next build I am going with a123 prismatic cells 72v with a crystalyte 7240 which should top out at around 50 mph.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: Terminills on July 30, 2013, 10:45:09 AM
Quote from: SysAdmin;743051
Nissan Leaf only takes 3.5 hours to charge if you have a 240 volt  charger. And that's if you have a fully depleted the battery.  It's  unusual to do that unless you drive great distances daily. If that's the  case an EV car is not the right solution for you. Even when I charged  using 110 volt it was done in 10-12 hours. You can even find 480 volt  chargers that charge your car in 30 minutes. If your driving around town  most charging stations are 240 volt and free. If I go shopping I charge  for free and I am able to charge for free close to where I work. Keep  in mind no one is being asked or forced to replace their gas car with an  EV. It just provides another choice in the market. If electric cars get  popular it will make the demand for gas go down and hopefully the  price. Then even if you never buy a EV and still drive a gas car you  benefit from lower gas prices (supply vs demand). I drive 100 miles per day so before the electric car I was paying $380 per month in gas and kept getting slammed with high maintenance costs. Since March when I got the EV my transportation costs have gone to $35 per month (I charge for free at work). And my maintenance costs have been $20 for a cabin filter replacement on my EV. I don't want to breath in unfiltered air from the other cars that are running on gas!



What's the replacement cost on the battery?
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: A6000 on July 30, 2013, 11:08:43 AM
In the case of electric drills, it is cheaper to buy a new drill than just a new battery on its own.
It is probably true for many other electrical devices that use non standard rechargeable batteries.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: Terminills on July 30, 2013, 11:14:52 AM
Quote from: A6000;743077
In the case of electric drills, it is cheaper to buy a new drill than just a new battery on its own.
It is probably true for many other electrical devices that use non standard rechargeable batteries.


lol that was my point.   I know an electric forklift I've seen a new battery cost as much as $7000.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: spirantho on July 30, 2013, 11:16:49 AM
Quote from: Terminills;743073
What's the replacement cost on the battery?


It doesn't work like that - when you buy the car, you rent the batteries, not buy them. So they should get replaced by the manufacturer every few years I believe.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: som99 on July 30, 2013, 11:21:30 AM
Sorry, but as it looks now Electric cars are nothing for me, the only car I could replace with a electric one are a station wagon and as far as I know I haven't seen any station wagon electrics. Also I would be limited by the distance the car can travel on full charge since I dont live in a big city I got quite the distance to drive to get anywhere also I got 270km (167miles) drive to my work so seems none of them can take me to work on full charge and with that drive to work I don't want to have to spend time waiting for it to charge to lenghten the trip further.

Also since I like cars, I want more horse power then the electrics can give and also a part of cars I enjoy is to repair and tinker with the engine etc myself, also how far would the distance be if you constantly drive at around 93mp/h as I do on the freeway?

Would also miss the sound of a petrol engine ;)

Sure a electric car could work for my wife and me for short distance trips to the store etc but that would be a huge cost in buying the car for verry little use :/
Since I have a big workshop garage with 2 lifts and all tools ever needed it would be such a waste to use it only for changing tyres ;)

Edit: Oh a thought what would happen to all car mechanics if electric cars invaded? Demoted to changing tyres? big chunk of unemployed people ;)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: Terminills on July 30, 2013, 12:26:48 PM
Quote from: spirantho;743079
It doesn't work like that - when you buy the car, you rent the batteries, not buy them. So they should get replaced by the manufacturer every few years I believe.


Not quite.  

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/06/20/nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-will-cost-100-month/

So at the expected 4-6 years it takes the battery to fall below the 70% capacity that puts the cost at $4800-$6000.   You can call it rent if you want but end of the day it's still an added cost.

Add that to the increased cost in electricity as the capacity falls.  Plus the decreased distance you can drive per charge.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: LoadWB on July 30, 2013, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: Terminills;743089
Add that to the increased cost in electricity as the capacity falls.  Plus the decreased distance you can drive per charge.

Cost should not be a long-term consideration for anyone purchasing an EV vehicle.  Government's natural tendency is to spend.  When you reduce purchasing fuel, or stop out-right, you reduce the amount of taxes collected for "roads."  (Quotes because the money is hardly ever used strictly for roads, just like your social security tax is not actually kept in a trust account with your name on it.)  When that happens, electric rates will have to increase or, as in some states, EV drivers will pay an additional tax to register their vehicles or we'll all be imposed a mileage tax.

As another example, municipally-owned utilities which encourage extreme conservation* more often than not increase rates because the governing authority becomes starved of revenue.

* Conservation means to not waste, it does not mean to go without.  (Paraphrasing a quote I saw a while back.)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: nicholas on July 30, 2013, 02:59:25 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;743110
Cost should not be a long-term consideration for anyone purchasing an EV vehicle.  Government's natural tendency is to spend.  When you reduce purchasing fuel, or stop out-right, you reduce the amount of taxes collected for "roads."  (Quotes because the money is hardly ever used strictly for roads, just like your social security tax is not actually kept in a trust account with your name on it.)  When that happens, electric rates will have to increase or, as in some states, EV drivers will pay an additional tax to register their vehicles or we'll all be imposed a mileage tax.

As another example, municipally-owned utilities which encourage extreme conservation* more often than not increase rates because the governing authority becomes starved of revenue.

* Conservation means to not waste, it does not mean to go without.  (Paraphrasing a quote I saw a while back.)


I take it you don't pay a separate Road Tax over there like in the UK?
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: desiv on July 30, 2013, 03:56:49 PM
Wow, what an active discussion..
Someone should consider a separate forum section for these Electric Car threads here on Amiga.org....

;-)

desiv
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: LoadWB on July 30, 2013, 03:58:35 PM
Quote from: nicholas;743111
I take it you don't pay a separate Road Tax over there like in the UK?

No.  Roughly 1/3 of our price of gas is county, state, and federal taxes.  (Some localities are higher.)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: commodorejohn on July 30, 2013, 04:07:51 PM
Quote from: desiv;743122
Wow, what an active discussion..
Someone should consider a separate forum section for these Electric Car threads here on Amiga.org....
Compare this to the quantity of CUSA discussion and then see if there was a subforum made for that ;P
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: nicholas on July 30, 2013, 04:10:35 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;743123
No.  Roughly 1/3 of our price of gas is county, state, and federal taxes.  (Some localities are higher.)


About 99.999999% of Petrol price in the UK is tax. lol
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: LoadWB on July 30, 2013, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: nicholas;743126
About 99.999999% of Petrol price in the UK is tax. lol


Yup!  I've heard that.  We fight like hell to keep our prices down, even where they are today, only to be denigrated and maligned for doing so.  Ah, well.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: nicholas on July 30, 2013, 04:27:51 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;743128
Yup!  I've heard that.  We fight like hell to keep our prices down, even where they are today, only to be denigrated and maligned for doing so.  Ah, well.

As long as the Saudi puppets keep getting supplied with cheap coke and hookers your fuel will be cheap. ;)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: desiv on July 30, 2013, 04:44:06 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;743125
Compare this to the quantity of CUSA discussion and then see if there was a subforum made for that ;P


K, you got me there.. ;-)

desiv
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: fishy_fiz on July 30, 2013, 04:44:38 PM
I know it's off topic, but the general theme lead me to this train of thought,....

Here in Melbourne there's semi recently been new laws passed in regards to smoking in the CBD. While Ive not smoked for quite a while I find this highly offensive. I choose not to drive, but others are allowed if they decide to. Yet if I wanted to smoke a cigarette in the same area Im not allowed.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: LoadWB on July 30, 2013, 05:47:28 PM
Quote from: nicholas;743129
As long as the Saudi puppets keep getting supplied with cheap coke and hookers your fuel will be cheap. ;)


Then I expect prices to go up, again, as we just took 79 minor hookers out of circulation.
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: nicholas on July 30, 2013, 07:22:11 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;743137
Then I expect prices to go up, again, as we just took 79 minor hookers out of circulation.


Those Saudi scumbags can't get enough, I'm sure whichever three letter acronym is responsible for keeping them supplied will find some more fresh meat for them. ;)
Title: Re: Amiga.org Electrified.
Post by: JimS on July 30, 2013, 10:48:14 PM
I don't see the need for a specific section for electric car discussions here at Amiga.org. It makes sense that folk interested in Amiga might take an interest in other techy topics from time to time. You can't talk Amiga all the time, and the ideas of Amiga folks interest me more than some j.random.nerd. That's what the generic tech forums are for. Start a thread there...

Having said that... electric cars are premature. There's only one part in them that isn't mature tech... and that's the battery/power source. We've been building the mechanical parts of the car over 120 years. Electric motors are older than gas engines. When you have an electric that can recharge in 10 minutes for a 400mi range or doesn't need enough platinum in it's fuel cell to stock Tiffany's, then call me. ;-)