Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Iggy on July 12, 2013, 11:28:01 PM
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If I find an EGS-28/24 Spectrum, should I use the EGS drivers or the picasso96 drivers?
Also, does anyone remember the website for those pre-configured workbench disks?
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That depends on your preference for a modern RTG (Picasso96) system or the obsolete kludged graphics (pile of crap EGS) system. :laugh1:
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That depends on your preference for a modern RTG (Picasso96) system or the obsolete kludged graphics (pile of crap EGS) system. :laugh1:
Well, I guess that settles that.
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EGS Spectrum works with Cybergraphics too. I have EGS, Picasso 96 and Cybergraphics in separate system partitions on my A2500. EGS is amusing and retro. It is actually a completely different 24 bit GUI piggy backed on Intuition. There are only a handful of apps for it. It also gives you a 256 color Workbench. Picasso 96 and Cybergraphics give you a full 24 bit workbench. I personally prefer Cybergraphics but Picasso 96 is a bit faster.
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When I had a CV64/3D in my A2000 I really liked how Cybergraphics supported screen-dragging and Picasso96 did not as I recall...
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I have one of those in my A4000 but ditched the EGS long ago. I was interesting to look at at the time but pretty useless really. Picasso96 or Cybergraphics is the way to go, though cybergraphics gives screen dragging and Picasso96 doesn't.
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Draging screens and a feel like the native Amiga chipset are advantages of Cybergraphics. Deluxe Paint works in Cybergraphics--some functions anyway. Perspective and some other brush functions don't.
Picasso 96 will feel faster on a 68030 processor. On a 68040 or 68060, you won't notice the difference. It won't be that much a difference on a 68030.
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Picasso 96 will feel faster on a 68030 processor. On a 68040 or 68060, you won't notice the difference. It won't be that much a difference on a 68030.
I don't get that last part.
I've bought a 33 MHz '040 board.
Shouldn't that perform better than an '030?
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Picasso 96 probably uses less of the CPU than Cybergrafix. On my 030 A2500, it just feels a little bit snapier in opening windows and doing graphics functions than Cybergrafix. On my A4000 it is not a noticble difference with either an 040 or 060 cpu card. It is not really much of a difference on my A2500 with it's stock 2630 accelerator.
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@ Ami_GFX (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=4809)
Got it.
Looking forward to the arrival of an '040 card, should blow the stock 8MHz 68000 away.
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If I find an EGS-28/24 Spectrum, should I use the EGS drivers or the picasso96 drivers?
Also, does anyone remember the website for those pre-configured workbench disks?
One thing you should remember is that the spectrum is not compatible with WHDLOAD.
Cybergraphx is faster on some cards. I like it more than p96.
One last thing about the spectrum if yours has a jumper wire on the card by the video connector, make sure it is a solid connection. It will cause problems if not.
If this is going in a z3 bus a cv64 or piv is much faster and a better card...
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One thing you should remember is that the spectrum is not compatible with WHDLOAD.
Ah, but it does have a pass-through port, so as long as your RTG software is configured correctly to use it, it should be fine with native Amiga video. :)
@ thread
While P96 and CGX are the best options, EGS' one advantage is that it works on Kickstart 2. I've got an EGS Spectrum in a 2.x A3000. Yes, it is kludgy, but I think a lot of that is to work around the complete lack of non-native video support in 2.x. Kickstart 3 made some improvements in these areas, so P96 and CGX can integrate more smoothly.
One other cool thing about EGS is that it has built-in mode promotion support, so there's no need for a utility like ModePro if you're trying to force certain screens to use the Spectrum.
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Ah, but it does have a pass-through port, so as long as your RTG software is configured correctly to use it, it should be fine with native Amiga video. :)
If memory serves you will still have to remove the spectrum monitor or make your workbench a native ecs/aga screen before you can run WHDLoad.
Didn't realize that EGS works with 2x, that may come in handy...
I don't mind EGS or Retina EMU, yes there are benefits with CG/P96. Have used an Amiga 2000 with a 040 and a retina z2 and it is a very nice combination.
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If memory serves you will still have to remove the spectrum monitor or make your workbench a native ecs/aga screen before you can run WHDLoad.
Hmmm. That may actually be related to EGS' mode promotion feature. By default, a "Do you want to promote this screen?" requester pops up for every single screen that opens (even Blanker!). I could see how that could cause trouble as WHDLoad is trying to do its thing.
Do you know if this happens on CGX/P96 as well?
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Hmmm. That may actually be related to EGS' mode promotion feature. By default, a "Do you want to promote this screen?" requester pops up for every single screen that opens (even Blanker!). I could see how that could cause trouble as WHDLoad is trying to do its thing.
Do you know if this happens on CGX/P96 as well?
I'm not sure about EGS and WHDLoad. But with CGX and P96, I'm almost positive you can't be in a RTG WB screen and run WHDLoad on a spectrum. This is documented in the WHDLoad manual somewhere, fairly certain it is a hardware issues with the spectrum, so it should show up with any driver...
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EGS Spectrum works with Cybergraphics too. I have EGS, Picasso 96 and Cybergraphics in separate system partitions on my A2500. EGS is amusing and retro. It is actually a completely different 24 bit GUI piggy backed on Intuition. There are only a handful of apps for it. It also gives you a 256 color Workbench. Picasso 96 and Cybergraphics give you a full 24 bit workbench. I personally prefer Cybergraphics but Picasso 96 is a bit faster.
If you ever felt like taking the time, I admit I'd be really curious to see a kind of side by side/quick comparison youtube vid of your setup :)
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I'm not sure about EGS and WHDLoad. But with CGX and P96, I'm almost positive you can't be in a RTG WB screen and run WHDLoad on a spectrum. This is documented in the WHDLoad manual somewhere, fairly certain it is a hardware issues with the spectrum, so it should show up with any driver...
Oh well. So much for an easy fix.
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Have used an Amiga 2000 with a 040 and a retina z2 and it is a very nice combination.
I wasn't familiar with the retina z2, had to research it.
Anyone else have RTG recommendations for an A2000?
i have my doubts that I will be able to find the Spectrum daughter board i was looking for.
Heck, was was surprised to find the '040 board for under $270.
BTW - I am completely satisfied with the 2000 now that it has been upgraded to ECS.
Doubt I'll re-visit AGA except via UAE.
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I wasn't familiar with the retina z2, had to research it.
Anyone else have RTG recommendations for an A2000?
A Picasso4 works in a 2000 and is real nice but the board has to be broken and it's a real expensive option. I think the best value gfx card for a 2000 is the Cybervision64/3D. It doesn't have pass through but it is faster and has more bandwidth than everything but the Picasso4. It also has 4MB of VMEM and supports 3D (more usable with a slow gfx bus). A dual input monitor (my favorite), 2 monitors or a monitor switch isn't too much of a hassle after getting used to it.
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@ matthey
Thanks, that looks like a good option.
And I have a VGA switch box, so using one would be no problem.
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I wasn't familiar with the retina z2, had to research it.
Anyone else have RTG recommendations for an A2000?
i have my doubts that I will be able to find the Spectrum daughter board i was looking for.
Heck, was was surprised to find the '040 board for under $270.
BTW - I am completely satisfied with the 2000 now that it has been upgraded to ECS.
Doubt I'll re-visit AGA except via UAE.
The 2000, from my experience, seems to be the most hardy big box Amiga. The darn things just run and seem to fail less the the 3000/4000.
You can run a cybervision 64/3d, a picasso II/IV, Spectrum, Retina Z2, and I'm sure other ones I can't remember. The advantage of the Retina Z2 is that it will be the cheapest of all the options.
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The 2000, from my experience, seems to be the most hardy big box Amiga. The darn things just run and seem to fail less the the 3000/4000.
You can run a cybervision 64/3d, a picasso II/IV, Spectrum, Retina Z2, and I'm sure other ones I can't remember. The advantage of the Retina Z2 is that it will be the cheapest of all the options.
Yeah, except for having to remove a leaking battery, its been pretty bullet proof.
And its easy to open up and work on.
I figure with the '040 card and RTG video, it ought to offer enough utility to make it usable.
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Looking at the possibilities, the Picasso IV (while pricey) appears to be the best option.
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If you ever felt like taking the time, I admit I'd be really curious to see a kind of side by side/quick comparison youtube vid of your setup :)
It would make an interesting video. The EGS 24 bit software looks more like old UNIX GUIs than Amiga Workbench. The EGS workbench is actually pretty good, just limited. If you have kickstart 3.1. You get a 256 color imatation AGA workbench. With Kickstart 2.01, it is limited to 16 colors. I still have all my old software from the 90s on the A2500 plus a few additions and the EGS 24 bit programs. The EGS workbench is as fast as Cybergraphics and Picasso 96, just limited to 8 bit color. Retina Emu and the original Picasso II software were similar. It took a while to get to a 24 bit workbench and the goal at the time was to make ECS Amigas have a 256 color workbench like AGA Amigas.
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Can anyone tell me what the jumper wire on the card by the video connector is for? :)
One thing you should remember is that the spectrum is not compatible with WHDLOAD.
Cybergraphx is faster on some cards. I like it more than p96.
One last thing about the spectrum if yours has a jumper wire on the card by the video connector, make sure it is a solid connection. It will cause problems if not.
If this is going in a z3 bus a cv64 or piv is much faster and a better card...
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Can anyone tell me what the jumper wire on the card by the video connector is for? :)
You mean the one connecting a couple pins on the back?
http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo2.pl?id=egs28&pg=2&res=hi&lang=en
No idea, without opening her up I'm pretty sure my Spectrum has one too though! If I had to make a wild guess, I'd say maybe it's something for compatibility with modern LCD monitors? Like how Picasso II has that resistor that blows if you connect an LCD to it? Or maybe it's just to fix some design flaw, LOL. ;)
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Good to know it's a somewhat common fix ! I have a non functional one and it does indeed look like at one point there was something soldered to those points :)
Just gonna try it tomorrow and see, nothing lost ! Thanks Mike !
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Good to know it's a somewhat common fix ! I have a non functional one and it does indeed look like at one point there was something soldered to those points :)
Just gonna try it tomorrow and see, nothing lost ! Thanks Mike !
Remove and reseat the Mach chip also. Mine has worked its way loose a couple times. I think that's another pretty common issue with that card. Good luck!
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I'm not sure about EGS and WHDLoad. But with CGX and P96, I'm almost positive you can't be in a RTG WB screen and run WHDLoad on a spectrum. This is documented in the WHDLoad manual somewhere, fairly certain it is a hardware issues with the spectrum, so it should show up with any driver...
Hey Matt,
I know I'm resurrecting a super-old thread here, just curious if anyone ever found any additional info on this? I did a little digging and saw the following in the WHDLoad manual. In particular, the last line:
There is a general problem with all extra hardware connected to the Amiga which generates Interrupts at random or regular times. An example is my network card (Hydra). If I have my TCP/IP stack running, nearly every installed program will freeze after a short time because the card creates PORTS interrupts (the same type as interrupts created by the keyboard) which cannot correctly replied to by the installed program. This is because as soon as the request has been acknowledged with an rte, the next interrupt occurs. To avoid this problem, the TCP/IP stack must be stopped before starting (http://whdload.de/docs/en/opt.html#ExecuteStartup) WHDLoad.
In the same category are falling USB-stacks (use "AddUSBHardware REMOVE ALL" for Poseidon) and the Voodoo interrupt of Mediator boards (you have to set "VoodooInt = No"). Starting WHDLoad version 16.8 there is a built-in work around for the interrupts created by Mediator boards, therefore no special settings are required.
Using Picasso96 versions equal or greater than release 1.36 also the graphics card Spectrum creates such interrupts. To avoid this the Picasso96 software must be reverted to a pre 1.36 release or the gfxcard driver must be disabled.
I've noticed a pretty large percentage of WHDLoad software does fail when a Spectrum card is active in the system. Not 100%, but probably at least along the lines of 20-30% of software will just go to a black screen, and then nothing, in that hardware configuration.
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I know I'm resurrecting a super-old thread here, just curious if anyone ever found any additional info on this?
Actually, pretty much everything on this is said. The GVP has the ability to generate a hardware interrupt on the vertical blank, and P96 is able to make use of it, in particular for the replacement of the WaitTOF() and WaitBOVP() functions of the graphics.library. These two functions are typically used to avoid tearing in animations, so it is good to have them.
The interrupt can be disabled/enabled from the internal API of P96 which is, unfortunately, not open.
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Actually, pretty much everything on this is said. The GVP has the ability to generate a hardware interrupt on the vertical blank, and P96 is able to make use of it, in particular for the replacement of the WaitTOF() and WaitBOVP() functions of the graphics.library. These two functions are typically used to avoid tearing in animations, so it is good to have them.
The interrupt can be disabled/enabled from the internal API of P96 which is, unfortunately, not open.
I have GVP EGS 28/24 Spectrum it has problems with Picasso 96 and WHDLoad games. But there is no problems with WHDLoad if it used with CGX 3/4
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I have GVP EGS 28/24 Spectrum it has problems with Picasso 96 and WHDLoad games. But there is no problems with WHDLoad if it used with CGX 3/4
Yes, and your point is? Apparently, CGFX does not implement WaitTOF() correctly. The only way how you can get a synchronization with the top of the frame is to make use of the interrupt of the VGA chip. If the interrupt is not used and not enabled, there is obviously not a problem.