Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: carvedeye on July 07, 2013, 10:38:00 PM
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Hi all I was on amigaworld a few mins ago and seen this post so I thought I would copy and paste looks interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwhMTGzi9m4
the next generation of Amiga's main specs are
CPU: P5020 at 2Ghz
RAM: DDR3
XORRO
Hopefully a Completely custom designed case in "classic amiga" stly
No due date...When its done!
sorry video cuts shorts my phone died. bloody battery, still nice show thanks to all involved in making it happen and keeping the amiga dream alive.
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just awesome:pint: Trevor/ A-Eon always did say that any further new hardware developments would solely rely on the sales of the X1000 so :pint:to all involved from beta-testers, developers, A-Eon, Amigakit, ACube, sponsors, and more importantly the end users who to this day still believe in their favourite OS:knuddel:
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I'm still not getting why they bother with dual-core when OS4 doesn't support SMP?
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I'm still not getting why they bother with dual-core when OS4 doesn't support SMP?
Probably because the dual core chip doesn't cost much more than the single core and people might want to use it for more than just OS4.
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I'm still not getting why they bother with dual-core when OS4 doesn't support SMP?
To run AROS of course. ;)
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AROS supports SMP? How do they manage that stably without memory protection?
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Freescale processor is a good choice for PPC, they pretty much own the market.
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AROS supports SMP? How do they manage that stably without memory protection?
Did I say AROS? Sorry I must have meant Linux or something.
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Another underpowered machine overpriced?
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Another underpowered machine overpriced?
I bet the 2.7GHz Dual Processor G5 Macs wipe the floor with it.
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A P5020 development system board runs US$4000. The processor runs US$317 in quantities of 1000 in the States. You are in embedded systems territory, and that is an expensive place to be. We'll just have to see.
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i don't understand why they want to insist on new hardware if X1000 don't have yet full support audio, video, pci-xpress 3D accelation, Xena and Xorro.
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i don't understand why they want to insist on new hardware if X1000 don't have yet full support audio, video, pci-xpress 3D accelation, Xena and Xorro.
Or the other core (as far as I know).
Is the 460 fully supported yet? I don't really keep up with OS4 stuff these days.
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CPU link:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=P5020# (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=P5020#)
The cache size is the most disappointing for me.
I'm sure Amiga could make do with x1 PCI-express graphics card. You could add extra sata or USB via the PCI-express slots.
It's still a toy unless they upgrade the peripheral options. Can't they add that in the design phase?
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So is this new machine less powerful than the X1000 then?
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@Kickstart
I think you're right. Instead of creating new hardware that's overpriced and underpowered, they should focus on cleaning up OS4 and adding decent printer support, USB3.0 and 3D accelerated graphics. Support of the 3 things I mentioned are abysmal at best and non-existent at worst.
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I'm still not getting why they bother with dual-core when OS4 doesn't support SMP?
I dont understand why they continue to use high price under powered exotic hardware for the platform. They should focus all efforts on Mac PPC hardware like Morphos team did. Project moana should have been the "new" platform for Amiga os4
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I'm still not getting why they bother with dual-core when OS4 doesn't support SMP?
It makes more sense to provide the hardware first, and then work on the software to use it. It's somewhat harder to do the other way around. I myself would rather see a T4240 kit with lots of cores, but some call me crazy. :)
If I were the designer, I'd want to add in as many advanced features as possible, so the board supports them when the software catches up, and the user can benefit from such OS upgrades. Or, like my XE-G4, it won't do anything better when OS4 does get SMP support. I'd prefer untapped potential to a blockade.
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This machine seems more powerful than X1000, at least by cpu and memory side.
X1000 is 1,8 Ghz and use DDR2 memory
X2000 use 2.0 Ghz (and could be scaled to 2,2 Ghz) and use DDR3 memory.
i don't know, but with this spec, che price could be very high (on amiga market of course)
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I added this to my post on Amigaworld, but basically the goal of "Cyrus" motherboard is to replace the nemo board with one that Is a lot more long term and future proof for Amiga users than the nemo was. To that end the board should support the P5040 so an X4000 could be made with the CPU: P5040 at 2.4Ghz quad core down the road.
SMP is coming in OS4.2
I think there playing more the long game with the hardware as software can always catch up afterwards, it be harder the other way around pushing the hardware with software which I suppose is what the Classic Amiga market is, this is after the NG market.
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It is impossible to sell expensive hardware without software. But I think most people interpret too much in it, searching for a "masterplan" that does not exist. They are simply adding features over time as long as they can earn money with it.
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Sounds great :D
Hopefully I can better afford this new motherboard.
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SMP is coming in OS4.2
.
errmm no.
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Another underpowered machine overpriced?
Most certainly so, yes. It's yet another extremely low volume motherboard based on a weak and expensive PPC CPU, so I think this is a safe bet! ;)
i don't understand why they want to insist on new hardware if X1000 don't have yet full support audio, video, pci-xpress 3D accelation, Xena and Xorro.
Trevor said in that video that a commercial release of the "X2000" wouldn't happen until at least 12-18 months because of the time needed of porting OS4/writing drivers. Well, the "X1000" was at the current "X2000" development stage (prototype had been built, OS4 porting was initiated) in the year 2009. And guess what? Four years later we are still waiting...
So is this new machine less powerful than the X1000 then?
A step backwards in some areas, a step forward in others. The lack of Altivec is a real downer IMHO.
Overall I'd say the "X2000" is more like a step *sideways* than it is a leap forward compared to the "X1000". And it's probably two years away.
I'm still not getting why they bother with dual-core when OS4 doesn't support SMP?
It makes more sense to provide the hardware first, and then work on the software to use it. It's somewhat harder to do the other way around. I myself would rather see a T4240 kit with lots of cores, but some call me crazy. :)
If I were the designer, I'd want to add in as many advanced features as possible, so the board supports them when the software catches up, and the user can benefit from such OS upgrades. Or, like my XE-G4, it won't do anything better when OS4 does get SMP support. I'd prefer untapped potential to a blockade.
True SMP simply can't be incorporated into Amiga without breaking the Amiga environment/backwards compatibility in such fundamental ways that you could as well introduce 64-bit, true memory protection and do a proper ISA switch to x86 while you are at it. There is no point in hanging on to the PPC after restarting with a clean slate. So if this has really been the plan, then the "X2000" (and the "X1000" as well for that matter) is redundant and an even worse idea.
(And I'm very puzzled why the "Xorro/Xena" is still there? It only increases the complexity of the design, thus making it unnecessary expensive at several levels. And it's utterly useless, not even A-eon has a good answer why it's there or what it can/will be used for!)
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Now that it has been brought up, is there any reason not to go x86 anymore?
Surely they could borrow a lot from open source AROS.
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Now that it has been brought up, is there any reason not to go x86 anymore?
Surely they could borrow a lot from open source AROS.
But it would no longer be t3h tru3 Am1g4 if it used AROS code. The name worshipping sub-sect of OS4 users would probably all die from heart attacks.
Not that this would necessarily be a bad thing as they have caused nothing but damage to this community.
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What do you mean? There is a good reason not to go to X86... they want to be paid for it (propably in the millions). Because nobody will do that it will not happen.
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for "true" supporters it must all directly inherit from the original sources (including all errors). And as long as they can earn money in a shrinking market they will continue with what they are doing now.
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The name worshipping sub-sect of OS4 users would probably all die from heart attacks.
Not that this would necessarily be a bad thing
Seriously, way over the line. Not even put in a funny way.
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What a waste of money and resources...
They instead should invest in getting OS4 of the annoyingly beta status, where it has been lying dormant for years (No proper driver support and incomplete feature set).
A real pitty.
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Now that it has been brought up, is there any reason not to go x86 anymore?
Sure: it's boring, ugly crap, and they'd lose a lot of performance relative to modern-ish PPC CPUs by having to run all the existing PPC software in emulation. Additionally, AROS already exists, so it's not like the world needs another of it.
Now, as to all the other questionable design decisions (no Altivec? Seriously? And tacking on useless Xena stuff again? And making a new board when they don't even properly support half the existing ones?) I got nothin'.
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It makes more sense to provide the hardware first, and then work on the software to use it. It's somewhat harder to do the other way around. I myself would rather see a T4240 kit with lots of cores, but some call me crazy.
If I were the designer, I'd want to add in as many advanced features as possible, so the board supports them when the software catches up, and the user can benefit from such OS upgrades. Or, like my XE-G4, it won't do anything better when OS4 does get SMP support. I'd prefer untapped potential to a blockade.
True SMP simply can't be incorporated into Amiga without breaking the Amiga environment/backwards compatibility in such fundamental ways that you could as well introduce 64-bit, true memory protection and do a proper ISA switch to x86 while you are at it. There is no point in hanging on to the PPC after restarting with a clean slate. So if this has really been the plan, then the "X2000" (and the "X1000" as well for that matter) is redundant and an even worse idea.
Uh, what?! How does that relate to my post?
Using the logic of the guy that my reply was to:
I'm still not getting why they bother with dual-core when OS4 doesn't support SMP?
That kind of logic should lead to questioning your advice, why port to x86 as there is not already a pile of x86 softwares to run on the OS when it gets there... And his question then continues, as why bother with Core i7 or Haswell that have lots of cores that are still not yet supported? I don't get it...
Now, I am not arguing against moving to x86. That would certainly save me a lot of time and effort and money learning how to make a modern and as high-end as one can do PPC laptop. It might be a little less fun, as I enjoy pondering the puzzle, and with x86 then there's a lot of already done options, so nothing fun left to think about. :)
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@ thread
sorry folks but all this OS4 bashing here just hasn't been the same since Piru left:( hope he is doing well.
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@ thread
sorry folks but all this OS4 bashing here just hasn't been the same since Piru left:( hope he is doing well.
There's not been any OS4 bashing in this thread yet as far as I can see.
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What a waste of money and resources...
They instead should invest in getting OS4 of the annoyingly beta status, where it has been lying dormant for years (No proper driver support and incomplete feature set).
A real pitty.
Indeed, but I think that's the whole point.
It's Trevor's money that it bringing this to market, not Hyperion's. I'm sure if Trevor actually owned the rights to OS4 he'd do a damn sight better job at improving the OS by investing resources into the needed areas than everyone's favourite wannabe lawyer has so far.
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True SMP simply can't be incorporated into Amiga without breaking the Amiga environment/backwards compatibility
I used to think the same, not anymore though. At least not to the severe extent most would think so anyway.
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I'm still not getting why they bother with dual-core when OS4 doesn't support SMP?
Can't take a hint? ;)
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Can't take a hint? ;)
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:biglaugh::cool:
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Can't take a hint? ;)
I'm looking forward to your demonstration of SMP on OS4.2 at AmiWest this year.
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I used to think the same, not anymore though. At least not to the severe extent most would think so anyway.
I'm curious: how would you go about it?
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Uh, what?! How does that relate to my post?
That kind of logic should lead to questioning your advice, why port to x86 as there is not already a pile of x86 softwares to run on the OS when it gets there... And his question then continues, as why bother with Core i7 or Haswell that have lots of cores that are still not yet supported? I don't get it...
Remember that we are talking about a clean slate restart in the OS development since SMP simply can't exist inside a traditional Amiga legacy environment without breaking it. You would have to cut the cord to the past, once and for all. To have things like SMP, 64-bit, etc, then old legacy Amiga applications will have to run in some kind of a boxed environment, separate from everything "NG", not mixed in the same environment as it is today (on MorphOS/OS4). UAE probably makes most sense then, like AROS (for 68k apps, most PPC ones worth mentioning can probably be updated as needed and then recompiled (and for whatever ISA)).
All you need to develop things like SMP, 64-bit, etc for your OS is a virtual machine. AROS runs this way, and AFAIK also the MorphOS developers uses this approach for "NG development/ISA migration" (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=34607&forum=28&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0#638608) (only for development purposes). There is no point in building über-expensive PPC hardware with multiple cores just to develop things like SMP, especially not when PPC will probably be the least preferred architecture to run your "new", SMP enabled OS on. That is simply, well... backwards.
all this OS4 bashing here
Where?
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I'm looking forward to your demonstration of SMP on OS4.2 at AmiWest this year.
That'll be cool, hopefully more folks will be at AmiWest this year to see OS4.2 SMP in full blown action!
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That'll be cool, hopefully more folks will be at AmiWest this year to see OS4.2 SMP in full blown action!
Yes, the more that show up to witness SMP on OS4.2 at Amiwest in October the better! :)
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I'm tempted to buy a ticket to Amiwest to witness SMP on OS4.2! That and the official release of Firefox! And protected runtime memory!
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@Stevo
ok, ok, take it easy, guys. :roflmao:
i know everyone is kidding, but some folks might actually think such a demo is scheduled for amiwest this year. i mean, it could be, but i rather doubt it. in any case amiwest is a great get-together with amigans of all strips, though most of the folks there tend to be classic enthusiasts.
i highly encourage anyone who can make it to do so, whether or not ssolie shows us something new on the AOS front. i hope to see some of you there!
-- eliyahu
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resuming... some people somewhere is laughting on a room thinking on amiga users and violating the amiga name another time more.
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Did support for the onboard SATA and audio ever get done for the X1000, or are add-on cards still needed?
Please, please, please - don't do things in a half assed way with the X2000. I'd love to buy one, but I ain't paying to be a beta tester. Ship it when EVERYTHING works on it.
And please - motherboard option as well as full, prebuilt systems. The moment I found out the X1000 was not available in mobo only form was the day I crossed it off my "to buy" list. Been building PC's professionally for 20 years and I won't buy pre-builts.
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@Duce
full support for the on-board audio HD controller was added some time ago. on-board SATA also works as well. the only thing still missing is support for the on-board Ethernet. well, that and 3D support for radeon HD cards. oh, and GPU-accelerated video.
-- eliyahu
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@Stevo
ok, ok, take it easy, guys. :roflmao:
i know everyone is kidding, but some folks might actually think such a demo is scheduled for amiwest this year. i mean, it could be, but i rather doubt it. in any case amiwest is a great get-together with amigans of all strips, though most of the folks there tend to be classic enthusiasts.
i highly encourage anyone who can make it to do so, whether or not ssolie shows us something new on the AOS front. i hope to see some of you there!
-- eliyahu
I was only half kidding. I heard that Amiga SMP will be demoed this Amiwest.
Isn't that what ssolie was hinting at?
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I love amiga, but these guys in the os4 camp keep shooting themselves in the foot...
The fact that people paid 3k+ for an x1000 years ago and they still didn't get the promised finished drivers speaks volumes.
os4 fanboys can defend them all they want, there is no defense for taking everyone's money but not delivering finished drivers, especially for the premium price they charged for a computer that a 100$ powermac can beat in benchmarks...
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Remember that we are talking about a clean slate restart in the OS development since SMP simply can't exist inside a traditional Amiga legacy environment without breaking it. You would have to cut the cord to the past, once and for all.
Could go into more technical detail why you would need a total clean slate for SMP ?
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SMP is coming in OS4.2
Actually there are no plans to include any sort of multi-core support in 4.2, simply because nobody has any idea as to what will be in 4.2:
http://www.intuitionbase.com/solie_irclog.txt
I recommend you take a long hard look at the answer to the question on [18:09:16] in that interview.
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I see a lot of FUD going around, what a shame.
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that is not correctly. I was in the chat and as I understand it he does not know it (if it is in or not)
from log:
If I knew myself I would tell you. :-)
[18:10:02] Basically, we work hard on all the features and at some point Hyperion says "ship it" and we figure out which pieces are high enough quality to include.
[18:10:19] hold up for a few min guys :-)
[18:10:24] So I could take a guess at which ones are going to make it but really it is early.
[18:11:02] I was just talking to Timothy (a Hyperion director) and they are getting anxious to ship something so that's good news I suppose
One important word "early" so no update in near term and how he explained it someone says "stop" and then they publish what is there. It is a little "unconventional" for my taste but if AmigaOS fans are happy with it...
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The day started out nice. But now there is just negativity.
I thought the quiet hints at porting to x86 is what a lot of people want. We know it can be done well because of Amithlon.
The underpowered nature doesn't matter, but I sure would like to take advantage of some power.
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The day started out nice. But now there is just negativity.
I thought the quiet hints at porting to x86 is what a lot of people want. We know it can be done well because of Amithlon.
The underpowered nature doesn't matter, but I sure would like to take advantage of some power.
Hints at a X86 port?
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Actually there are no plans to include any sort of multi-core support in 4.2, simply because nobody has any idea as to what will be in 4.2:
http://www.intuitionbase.com/solie_irclog.txt
I recommend you take a long hard look at the answer to the question on [18:09:16] in that interview.
Funny to see how the bold and brave "4.2 features" is spontaneously devalued this way. "When Hyperion say 'ship something', we ship whatever we have". Yeah... :rolleyes:
I think it's obvious that there is no centralized plan, no centralized management anymore. Sounds more like they have adapted the AROS approach now, everyone works on whatever he wants, when he wants (on his spare time). And looking at what is actually being released it becomes obvious that hardly anything is happening anymore. The key feature of the last update (OS4.1.6) was a bump in the version number (a new version, yay!) and the bundling of AmiUpdate. There has been some work done on drivers, but that's coming from Acube/Aeon. Why? Well, Christopher Gutjhar (who I trust, and it seems he has some inside knowledge from friends of his in the community) has on a few occasions on various sites been mentioning that the OS4 developers are left unpaid (like: here (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/238527.shtml) (my reply (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/238540.shtml))) much like the MorphOS Team was when Thendic France crashed and burned, resulting in the infamous "morphos.net" site hijacking and some developers leaving, and in a post he has even played with the idea of using "amigaos.net" in a similar way (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37766&forum=33&start=100&viewmode=flat&order=0) in order to get rid of "our version of 'the BBRV folks'". Not a bad idea, IMHO!
Once upon a time, the Friedens were the leaders of OS4 development. They were supposed to be employed and paid, and they were the ones managing all the OS4 development. After a lawsuit against Hyperion regarding missing payments, they suddenly kind of disappeared. I don't mean they stopped reading/posting in forums, but they are not the head of OS4 development anymore. Something changed. Instead "ssolie" (of all people) was brought in. He is not employed. And one of the first actions he took was to try to bring new developers on board ("AmigaOS wants you (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=327)") by appealing to anyone in the community to come and help out. Around this time they also started to talk about how AmigaOS was more of a hobby project, so I guess the newbies weren't exactly put on a pay-roll either.
I think this is a credible explanation to both the uncertainties regarding "OS4.2.0", as well to the dramatically halted OS4 development in general. Something is obviously not right in OS4 land, or to put it in a different way - the reality probably doesn't match very well the appearance (the public facade) some people try so hard to put up.
And in the meantime people like Trevor continues marching in their own direction. At his own will, his own initiative. This is what happens when there is no centralized management, no grand masterplan for platform evolution. Anarchy. Hyperion promised things like SMP, memory protection, resource tracking and automatic stack enlargement a decade ago. Today also 64-bit would make sense. But to incorporate these things into Amiga OS, such drastic changes would be required that you could as well migrate to a proper desktop ISA (like x86) while you are at it. *Not* doing this would be close to madness. And then you will have a bunch of people who paid a truckload of money for underperforming PPC hardware that simply doesn't make sense anymore, and will also probably be close to worthless on the second hand market.
All IMHO of course!
:)
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Funny to see how the bold and brave "4.2 features" is spontaneously devalued this way. "When Hyperion say 'ship something', we ship whatever we have". Yeah... :rolleyes:
I think it's obvious that there is no centralized plan, no centralized management anymore. Sounds more like they have adapted the AROS approach now, everyone works on whatever he wants, when he wants (on his spare time). And looking at what is actually being released it becomes obvious that hardly anything is happening anymore. The key feature of the last update (OS4.1.6) was a bump in the version number (a new version, yay!) and the bundling of AmiUpdate. There has been some work done on drivers, but that's coming from Acube/Aeon. Why? Well, Christopher Gutjhar (who I trust, and it seems he has some inside knowledge from friends of his in the community) has on a few occasions on various sites been mentioning that the OS4 developers are left unpaid (like: here (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/238527.shtml) (my reply (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/238540.shtml))) much like the MorphOS Team was when Thendic France crashed and burned, resulting in the infamous "morphos.net" site hijacking and some developers leaving, and in a post he has even played with the idea of using "amigaos.net" in a similar way (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37766&forum=33&start=100&viewmode=flat&order=0) in order to get rid of "our version of 'the BBRV folks'". Not a bad idea, IMHO!
Once upon a time, the Friedens were the leaders of OS4 development. They were supposed to be employed and paid, and they were the ones managing all the OS4 development. After a lawsuit against Hyperion regarding missing payments, they suddenly kind of disappeared. I don't mean they stopped reading/posting in forums, but they are not the head of OS4 development anymore. Something changed. Instead "ssolie" (of all people) was brought in. He is not employed. And one of the first actions he took was to try to bring new developers on board ("AmigaOS wants you (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=327)") by appealing to anyone in the community to come and help out. Around this time they also started to talk about how AmigaOS was more of a hobby project, so I guess the newbies weren't exactly put on a pay-roll either.
I think this is a credible explanation to both the uncertainties regarding "OS4.2.0", as well to the dramatically halted OS4 development in general. Something is obviously not right in OS4 land, or to put it in a different way - the reality probably doesn't match very well the appearance (the public facade) some people try so hard to put up.
And in the meantime people like Trevor continues marching in their own direction. At his own will, his own initiative. This is what happens when there is no centralized management, no grand masterplan for platform evolution. Anarchy. Hyperion promised things like SMP, memory protection, resource tracking and automatic stack enlargement a decade ago. Today also 64-bit would make sense. But to incorporate these things into Amiga OS, such drastic changes would be required that you could as well migrate to a proper desktop ISA (like x86) while you are at it. *Not* doing this would be close to madness. And then you will have a bunch of people who paid a truckload of money for underperforming PPC hardware that simply doesn't make sense anymore, and will also probably be close to worthless on the second hand market.
All IMHO of course!
:)
I do not comment your slightly ironic comments on AROS, I also have my views on "Macs" in general and used Macs in special (you know what I mean :-) ). Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. I have more fun with AROS (and see better chances) you prefer MorphOS.
Regarding the Friedens (if I understand it right), they were never "employed" in classical sense but propably are freelancer working for Ben H. (we do not know how many hours and if fulltime how Hyperion claims). And Solie is a kind of speakman working free of charge for Hyperion. We should not interpret too much in it.
"This is what happens when there is no centralized management, no grand masterplan for platform evolution."
And seriously MorphOS-Team has a masterplan? Seriously all OS development right now is "hobby" noone can live of it. So I do not think there is a real "masterplan" in any camp. But I must admit that working on it for some time, then stopping at a point and looking what works really sounds a little "unconventional". Regarding comparing opensource vs. closed source/commercial development both have advantages and disadvantages.
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Funny to see how the bold and brave "4.2 features" is spontaneously devalued this way. "When Hyperion say 'ship something', we ship whatever we have". Yeah... :rolleyes:
I think it's obvious that there is no centralized plan, no centralized management anymore. Sounds more like they have adapted the AROS approach now, everyone works on whatever he wants, when he wants (on his spare time). And looking at what is actually being released it becomes obvious that hardly anything is happening anymore. The key feature of the last update (OS4.1.6) was a bump in the version number (a new version, yay!) and the bundling of AmiUpdate. There has been some work done on drivers, but that's coming from Acube/Aeon. Why? Well, Christopher Gutjhar (who I trust, and it seems he has some inside knowledge from friends of his in the community) has on a few occasions on various sites been mentioning that the OS4 developers are left unpaid (like: here (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/238527.shtml) (my reply (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/238540.shtml))) much like the MorphOS Team was when Thendic France crashed and burned, resulting in the infamous "morphos.net" site hijacking and some developers leaving, and in a post he has even played with the idea of using "amigaos.net" in a similar way (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37766&forum=33&start=100&viewmode=flat&order=0) in order to get rid of "our version of 'the BBRV folks'". Not a bad idea, IMHO!
Once upon a time, the Friedens were the leaders of OS4 development. They were supposed to be employed and paid, and they were the ones managing all the OS4 development. After a lawsuit against Hyperion regarding missing payments, they suddenly kind of disappeared. I don't mean they stopped reading/posting in forums, but they are not the head of OS4 development anymore. Something changed. Instead "ssolie" (of all people) was brought in. He is not employed. And one of the first actions he took was to try to bring new developers on board ("AmigaOS wants you (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=327)") by appealing to anyone in the community to come and help out. Around this time they also started to talk about how AmigaOS was more of a hobby project, so I guess the newbies weren't exactly put on a pay-roll either.
I think this is a credible explanation to both the uncertainties regarding "OS4.2.0", as well to the dramatically halted OS4 development in general. Something is obviously not right in OS4 land, or to put it in a different way - the reality probably doesn't match very well the appearance (the public facade) some people try so hard to put up.
And in the meantime people like Trevor continues marching in their own direction. At his own will, his own initiative. This is what happens when there is no centralized management, no grand masterplan for platform evolution. Anarchy. Hyperion promised things like SMP, memory protection, resource tracking and automatic stack enlargement a decade ago. Today also 64-bit would make sense. But to incorporate these things into Amiga OS, such drastic changes would be required that you could as well migrate to a proper desktop ISA (like x86) while you are at it. *Not* doing this would be close to madness. And then you will have a bunch of people who paid a truckload of money for underperforming PPC hardware that simply doesn't make sense anymore, and will also probably be close to worthless on the second hand market.
All IMHO of course!
:)
And yes, MorphOS is "propably" (I do not use it) the best "Amiga-based" (or however you call it) OS right now. But it has one big weakness. It stucks in PPC the same way as AmigaOS and there is no chance (if you believe the Devs) that this will change in the next years. It has reached maximum hardware support (used PPC Macs), the only extension could be Acube/a-eon systems. You have certainly read the disappointment of Morphzone regarding new licenses and users (or better only few new). So both have a problem.
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There is no hint at "x86 port" And I highly doubt there will be.
@TMHG I highly doubt that there is no sense of direction for amiga os4.x and hardware development.
E.g. remember that press release stating that they are going to support a new PowerISA?
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And btw there are a stream of AOS4.x updates, but you would have to have a running AOS4.x system to notice that though.
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And seriously MorphOS-Team has a masterplan?
Well, I don't know if it's a masterplan (only time will tell, however their idea with building a wide support for mainstream PPC Mac HW was indeed genious), but at least they communicated a plan with a short-term, mid-term and long-term perspective two years ago (link 1 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=667785&postcount=1)), including a roadmap (link 2 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=667824&postcount=5)) describing specific features planned for "next release" and for the following releases. This was in 2011, by now you can tick many things off from that check list. :)
There once was some specific features outlined for OS4.2 as well, given OS4's somewhat odd version system ("OS4.1 update 6"/OS4.1.6) bumping that "1" digit to a "2" will be a major version upgrade which is supposed to be reflected by the features, and true SMP is one of the features that has actually been communicated as being part of OS4.2 on numerous occasions.
And now we hear from the 'development lead': "I have no idea what OS4.2 will contain, when Hyperion say 'it's time for a release' we will release what we think is ready then".
Things changed...
Seriously all OS development right now is "hobby" noone can live of it.
You don't have to tell me that, I'm not the one putting up a false facade of a full working company steaming ahead, building an industry, a commercial future for the platform. I know none of that is true. OS4 had their own situation with unpaid developers (who claim ownership of their code), and some of the people who back in 2004 was sitting on the fence pointing fingers at the "morphos.net" incident, are now active in maintaining the OS4 charade. The little work done is of course purely at a hobby basis (just like AROS and MorphOS), besides Aeon/Acube sponsored driver development.
AMorphOS [...] stucks in PPC the same way as AmigaOS and there is no chance (if you believe the Devs) that this will change in the next years.
Well, the above mentioned plan had a long term perspective that included an ISA change and the development of "NG" features like 64-bit, etc. If you believe the Dev making that presentation, the situation was actually: "yes indeed, within a few years, we will change the architecture".
Back then when this was discussed, I read somewhere that initial steps had been taken already. That was in 2011, so two of those "a few years" has already passed!
I think it's a fair "guesstimate" that a "X2000" machine won't be here until 2 years from now (Trevor said himself 12-18 months, and he has been shown to be a bit over-optimistic when he made release predictions of his "X1000"). So when (if) the "X2000" is released, 4 years will have passed since that MorphOS plan was presented. Who knows, maybe 4 years is the "few years" needed?
It depends on their ambitions I'd say, a pure ISA migration of what we have today (nothing of the fancy NG stuff) in a clean slate cut from the legacy could probably be done in a few weeks. But implementing SMP, 64-bit, etc would take some development.
(But now we are drifting off topic, let's get back to "OS4" and the "X2000" )
:)
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Next time you need to post a news article about overpriced, (sought of) underpowered hardware. You need to make two separate posts. One for all the people who are interested and one for all the people who loathe it.
Nobody here is going change their mind whether they hate it or like it. But hopefully the criticism will be heard by the developers and they may steer a different course.
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P.S.
Try and buy the name: Amiga 5020
That would be a lot cooler than Amiga One x
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Nobody here is going change their mind whether they hate it or like it. But hopefully the criticism will be heard by the developers and they may steer a different course.
Thing is that the X1000s that could be made were sold out before production. Maybe some people should realise there may be room for such a niche product no matter how much negative junk they post in forum threads.
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pricing etc:
I bet x2000 (2Ghz 2core) is the a-eon idea of a mid range product, cheaper than x1000. Then they can produce the board also wíth four core chip (x4000 as trevor said), for high end and make it more pricey...
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pricing etc:
I bet x2000 (2Ghz 2core) is the a-eon idea of a mid range product, cheaper than x1000. Then they can produce the board also wíth four core chip (x4000 as trevor said), for high end and make it more pricey...
more pricey? :confused:
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*Bump*
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*Bump*
*Meaningless attempt to generate forum traffic*
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P.S.
Try and buy the name: Amiga 5020
That would be a lot cooler than Amiga One x
They can't, Hyperion is only allow to use the name "AmigaOne" or "Amiga One". Not "Amiga".
and make it more pricey...
:eek:
Yeah, uhm, that seems very smart, definitely something to strive for!
:laugh1:
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Yeah, uhm, that seems very smart, definitely something to strive for!
then i'm sure you'll be pleased to know that trevor indicated at VCF that the new system should be both more powerful and less costly than the X1000.
and for those who enjoy poking the users of next-generation amigas running AOS4, please knock it off. it's juvenile and pointless point scoring that takes us back the 'bad old days' of places like ann.lu. knock it off. this is your only warning. any more of this will result in posting restrictions.
-- eliyahu
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Price really isn't that important in niche computing, really if you can get AmigaOne's price/performance ratios down to 2 or 3 times Apple ratios you should be happy. In the commercial world they have millions of computers to spread the cost of development over, here you have hundreds.
Trevor has done a remarkable job delivering what he promised at the price he promised. He deserves a well done and good luck from all of us. I look forward to hearing about his X2000 when it becomes available.
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Price really isn't that important in niche computing, really if you can get AmigaOne's price/performance ratios down to 2 or 3 times Apple ratios you should be happy. In the commercial world they have millions of computers to spread the cost of development over, here you have hundreds.
Trevor has done a remarkable job delivering what he promised at the price he promised. He deserves a well done and good luck from all of us. I look forward to hearing about his X2000 when it becomes available.
Well said, well done Trevor.