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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: rednova on July 04, 2013, 05:57:42 PM
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Dear Friends:
I have only room in my house for one amiga.
I currently have an amiga 2000 (68000, 1 mb chip 2 mb ram, 40 mb HD).
Even though is very simple, is perfect for all my needs (dpaint art, moviesetter anims,
and amospro programming).
This Christmas I have the chance to buy a good amiga 4000 (from someone I know).
I have enough money to buy it. Even though I do not know specs on the a4000
I believe is a superb system.
I have 2 choices : keep my amiga 2000, or buy an amiga 4000.
Money do not matter, I can afford the new amiga.
If I buy the amiga 4000, later I can upgrade the system and even get lightwave.
But I already have a super PC with the latest lightwave and aladdin 4d in emulation,
so I do not need the amiga 4000 for animation. And the a2000 is good enough for
2d animation.
What do you suggest ?
Get an amiga 4000, or keep my amiga 2000 ?
Please help me !!!
Thank you !!!
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I suggest A1200. It is most used, easily upgraded, you have new accelerators and scandoublers for it, can play ocs, ecs and aga games.
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Amiga 4000, easily. It's the most stable, expandable and useful classic Amiga there is IMHO. The only problem is it's a little more expensive to upgrade, but it's worth it for the Zorro cards you can get (Graphics, USB, Ethernet, PCI, all that...)
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I'd love an A4000 myself but I can't justify paying that much for old hardware...
I'd second the A1200 suggestion, you can do all the things your 2000 can do and more, especially if you like to use DPaint, you can get DPaint IV and draw with AGA graphics. It also takes up so much less space. But if someone you know is offering you an A4000 at a good price, well I'd be sorely tempted put it that way.
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I wouldn't bother unless you want to spend a lot of time and money potching about with old hardware.
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Graphics cards and CPU upgrades for the A2000 are very expensive/rare.
Unless you want to play a lot of OCS games I would go with the A4000.
Advantages:
Onboard simm slots.
Inline video slot.
Has AGA so you can skip the graphics card upgrade.
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Keepp the 2000 mate
there is little point "upgrading"
hell iv got a 500, for what I do with it its perfect.
Iv had a 1200, but I found myself trying to "botch" it up constantly.
getting this and that trying to "fix" this and that to make it more modern when really its all completely pointless.
Infact, apart from AGA there is really nothing of an upgrade.
AGA is pretty crud, its slow, and you can do 256 colors with OCS.
The IDE slot is ok, but its not really needed.
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AGA is pretty crud, its slow, and you can do 256 colors with OCS.
:-?
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@rednova
Sell the A2000 and use the money to buy a Picasso IV for the A4000.
You won't regret the combination. :)
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@above
He must mean HAM mode.
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A4000 all the way.
More chipram, faster chipram, faster cpu, better color depth, more onscreen color, inbuilt harddrive controller, etc, etc.
If you have an interest in 2d graphics/animation then any aga machine is a better option, let alone the other advantages of the a4k (zorro3, etc.).
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@above
He must mean HAM mode.
no.. I didnt mean HAM mode.
You can do 256 colors with OCS.
Blitter tricks.
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Infact, apart from AGA there is really nothing of an upgrade.
AGA is pretty crud, its slow, and you can do 256 colors with OCS.
I think AGA is fast enough :)
[youtube]WrSQPqtNPNA[/youtube]
I agree with you though, keep the A2000, you've only got it for nostalgic reason so if you're happy with it then you don't need to change it.
If you buy this A4000 it might turn out to have faults which will be a hassle, better to stick with what you know.
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no.. I didnt mean HAM mode.
You can do 256 colors with OCS.
Blitter tricks.
Wha
I hope you mean Copper.
Well you can do that, if you're a coder and you know what you're doing. You can't do that in DPaint though. Is there any graphics software that allows you to do it? Besides, there are limitations to this technique.
AGA also has 24-bit colours to choose from. OCS is only 12 bit.
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@ above
You must explain this blitter trick for us. Is there a mod we can download to activated it.
I know that you can 256 color lo-res screen in VGA, but I thought Amiga used the bits differently and squeezed in HAM mode for 4096 colors.
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Don't sell your A2000, you will miss it eventually and regret the sale dearly.
Instead, maybe add an A1200 to your flock. It is small and you can chuck it somewhere when you are not using it. And pull it out when you want to experience some AGA goodness :)
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Neither, get an A1200 for retro and a PPC machine for the new stuff.
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Hi,
I have just about every Amiga model known to man except for the A2500, and all that an A2500 is, a glorified name for an A2000 to make the Europeons happy. Anyway, the one that sits on my desk next to my gaming PC, is the Amiga 4000, with two CF card drives and a CD-rom. In order to accomplish this task you need a Buddha ide card. Does it boot any faster, no, because somewhere I know in the controlling rom kearnel there is a time set in for running up the hard drives. This delays it just enough today to make a PC faster on boot up. I used to have instructions on how to adjust this run up time but can't seem to find it,
So my choice is the A4000, my next choice is the A1200, CD32, then the A2000. And only for the AGA chipset before you reach the OCS chipset in the A2000. (I said that only to keep CommodoreJohn happy, he likes to critique what you say. Got to be very careful, he is always watching. Anyhow I can not properly evaluate the A1200 since I have an Amiga Technology A1200. Compared to the original Commodore, I hear it is a piece of junk. I am about ready to pull it apart and put changes in various areas. The drives are a major problem with this Amiga. Why did I choose the A4000, it is one of those that I received from NASA during their upgrade (actually downgrade) project of computers to receive satellite pictures. Well anyhow good luck on your choice, I know you said you only have room for one Amiga, but I would take the A2000 and store it somehow, it is my favorite OCS machine. I am more of a real computer person, and the A500 and A1200 where nothing but cheap toys to me. The A600 I don't even consider a real Amiga, maybe an upgraded C64.
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No offense but if you have a powerful current PC Lightwave 3D 11.5 is generations beyond the Lightwave 3.5 available on Amiga...
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Keep your A2000. For AGA and RTG stuff, use your super-PC using WinUAE to perform stuff that requires them. Only get the A4000 if its a really good deal. But don't give up the A2000. Those things are built like tanks and will last a long time.
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I would keep the A2000. Easy to expand if you want to and still a great machine without any expansions. A real workhorse, and it shows.
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You've obviously got a strong sentimental attachment to that A2000. Years ago I had an A1200 and would love to have another, but my A500 suits me just fine and I hardly miss AGA at all. ;) Stick with what you love, the A4000 can be a bear to upgrade or replace even basic components and expensive as all $@%%. :(
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Hi,
I have just about every Amiga model known to man except for the A2500, and all that an A2500 is, a glorified name for an A2000 to make the Europeons happy.
Actually, you are mistaken. The A2500 was very popular in the USA. The model in which I believe you are referring to is the A1500.
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I say, keep the A2000, and get the A4000! You will regret getting rid of the 2000. It's a very nice machine, and will last a very long time as it is considered Mil Spec by some Amiga experts. ;)
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Actually, you are mistaken. The A2500 was very popular in the USA. The model in which I believe you are referring to is the A1500.
Don't all A1500's have the latest and best A2000 motherboards in? I hear the best A2000 is an A1500.
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In answer to rednova's question, I'd keep your A2000. My personal opinion is that should you want a more capable machine then you already have plenty of upgrade options available for your A2000. You can add upgrades to it as and when you want/can afford them. It is capable of going beyond the A1200, except maybe for Quake.
Gaming wise I think the best games are all OCS/ECS anyway. I don't even have an A2000, but I've always wanted one. Like you I have little room in the house.
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Dear Amigans :
I appreciate everyone's comments about which amiga to pick.
After serious consideration, I have really good news !!!
I can KEEP my amiga 2000, and get the amiga 4000 !!!
I have a special desk which I use for decorations, it'll be very tough
for me to clean it(get rid of nice decorations)but I can use the extra
room to put an a4000 on it.
I am not going to have the money til christmas (my gift !!!)so I have
plenty of time to decided if or not to buy it (amiga 4000).
Thank you all !!!
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Dear Amigans :
I appreciate everyone's comments about which amiga to pick.
After serious consideration, I have really good news !!!
I can KEEP my amiga 2000, and get the amiga 4000 !!!
I have a special desk which I use for decorations, it'll be very tough
for me to clean it(get rid of nice decorations)but I can use the extra
room to put an a4000 on it.
I am not going to have the money til christmas (my gift !!!)so I have
plenty of time to decided if or not to buy it (amiga 4000).
Thank you all !!!
You could always stack the A4000 on top of the A2000 to save space.
Good news that you can have both machines. I say one can never have too many Amigas but my wife says otherwise! ;)
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Yaaay, the best possible outcome :)
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Hi,
As I have just found out there was an Amiga 1500, and an Amiga 2500. They both look like an A2000. I will have to look up and see what the differences are and see if it is worth it to add to my collection, and then again I really don't know, maybe I will just stay with Amiga Forever and sell out all my Amiga's. I have really been losing interest during the past 2 years or so. It seems all of my old friends have already moved on and the Amiga clubs have been slowly dwindling down. Sure hate to give up the A4000 it has done so much for me during the past 21 years, and the Amiga itself from the A1000, 26 years ago. Fine machines that I will never forget. Heck if it wasn't for this machine, I wouldn't have box upon box upon box of Amiga junk up in the attic. Heck if I got rid of the Amiga stuff upstairs in the attic, I would only have about 2 boxes of computer junk since PC stuff no one usually keeps because it is all just throw away junk after about 2 years. I mean the most collectable PC is the 8088 and people have them just to run DOS.
Yep, the A1500 and A2500 had to be made for them Euro-peons, because I have never seen one in the US.
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The 2000HD was an A2000 with 2091 SCSI card in it.
The 2500 was a A2000 with a 2620 68020 board in it.
Later you could get the 2630 68030 card included as well, before it was dropped because it was competing with the Amiga 3000.
The 1500 was an A2000 with two floppy drives and was exclusive to UK.
The upgraded A2000s must be rare because they were dropped when the A3000 came out. Plus a lot of people would have waited for the A1200 before upgrading.
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A1500 was Commodore UK's response to the Checkmate A1500 expansion for the A500. There should be info about it on BBOAH or you could probably chat to Steve Jones/ClusterUK about it.
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The "Amiga Experience" changed from model to model and from different upgrades.
The A2000 is a fine machine, I have 4 of them in various flavours - from crazy expanded to hardly touched - each offering a unique feel. I also have an A4000D heavily expanded and that is yet another completely "different" experience.
Like some others here I have multiples of every Amiga model, each with different upgrade paths and upgrades!
Fortunately for me space is not the issue, I am also quite lucky as my wife does support my Amiga Addiction. However I say to my self EACH machine must have a purpose a use if you will or it has to find a new owner.
I have 3 primary A1200's
One of them is PPC/BPPC based
One of them is PCI / 060 based
One of them is a custom build 030@40/64MB RAM in a CDTV chassis (dont worry the CDTV gubbins passed away before I got it)
While they can near enough ALL do similar things, Each one of these machines gives me a different feel - a different experience of the Amiga A1200 and that is really what it should come down too...
My 3 A2000's (the 4th is stock)
One of them is a P3 1Ghz x86 / GVP 040@33 Hybrid / 2MB CHIP with lots of gubbins
One of them is a A3630@25Mhz / 8MB
One of them is nothing more than an 8mb GVP + SCSI card
Again like the A1200 each has a different feel to, also in this regard each has a different OS too.
So where am I going with this..... well its quite simple..... that A4000 when you get it will really give you a completely different experience, not only will it be 32bit ( not 16bit ) it will also be quick, snapier, faster loading along side upto 16MB of FAST RAM and 2MB CHIP - yeah you could emulate it..... but lets be honest - you could easily do the same for the A2000.
The reason we keep the REAL hardware is there is that intrinsic - something special that draws us... binds us to it.... it may all be nostalgia but I think its more than that.
In the long run the A4000 may not offer you a better experience than your A2000. However what I can sincerely promise you the A4000 will offer you a completely different Amiga Experience and its one I think you will really enjoy as well.
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In the days when the A1200 was named so because it was sold for $1200 and the A4000 was named so because it was $4000, I naturally bought an A1200.
I then bought Amiga format with Real 3D, CU Amiga with Image FX, and I put my joystick down. And that's when I hit the roadblocks. Flickery PAL screen, lack of resolution, lack of color depth, lack of speed in anything more than 64 colors, no CD ROM, slow CPU-hogging IDE interface.
So a 8 MB RAM board was going to fix that, right? Nope. Patches, kludges and hacks, PC side towers with IDE ribbons snaking out folowed. But still not where I wanted to be.
Then some guy I was buying an '030 board off said:" Ya'know, an A4000 will fix all your problems". Yeah but we need a new kitchen first, was my reply.
Three years later an A4000 with CS II 68060, Cyberscsi, CV-3D plus scan doubler was up for sale for $800 because the seller thought "he'd get some money back before PPC Amiga's came out and made it worthless".
That was 13 years ago. Have never looked back.
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In the days when the A1200 was named so because it was sold for $1200 and the A4000 was named so because it was $4000
So that is why Commodore dropped the A300 name and went for A600 :D
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And the production cost was $400 for the A1200. $1000 for the A4000.
What they did with the profits, I don't know. Except for all the losses in their continual push into the PC market.
However much it would have cost to put in the AAA chipset instead of AGA would have been worth a hefty continuing profit margin.
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I am a little confused with some posts as -
The A1200 was released in October 21, 1992 at a price of $599 US and £399 GBP respectively.
The A4000 when released in March 1993 with an 030@25 was at $2499.00 US
Would an 040@25 raised the price by nearly $1500 ?
Interestingly
The A1000 was released in 1985 at $1300 US
The A2000 was released in 1987 at $1500 US
In April 1990 Amiga 1000 owners we offered a $1000 trade in for the A2000
The CDTV was released in January 1991 at a price of $1000 US
The A600 was released in March 1992 at a price of $600 US
The A3000 was announced in 1990 with a price of $4100 US (inc Monitor)
The A3000UX was released in 1991 with a price of $5000 (without Monitor)
Sadly I cannot get a definitive price on the original release A4000-040
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I am a little confused with some posts as -
The A1200 was released in October 21, 1992 at a price of $599 US and £399 GBP respectively.
The A4000 when released in March 1993 with an 030@25 was at $2499.00 US
Would an 040@25 raised the price by nearly $1500 ?
Interestingly
The A1000 was released in 1985 at $1300 US
The A2000 was released in 1987 at $1500 US
In April 1990 Amiga 1000 owners we offered a $1000 trade in for the A2000
The CDTV was released in January 1991 at a price of $1000 US
The A600 was released in March 1992 at a price of $600 US
The A3000 was announced in 1990 with a price of $4100 US (inc Monitor)
The A3000UX was released in 1991 with a price of $5000 (without Monitor)
Sadly I cannot get a definitive price on the original release A4000-040
I'm pretty sure the A4000 came out before the A1200, and with 68040/25Mhz (A3040). The model you're referring to came out afterwards in 1993 with built in 030/25Mhz on the motherboard.
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I'm pretty sure the A4000 came out before the A1200, and with 68040/25Mhz (A3040). The model you're referring to came out afterwards in 1993 with built in 030/25Mhz on the motherboard.
Yes I did mention this =)
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Dear Amigans :
I appreciate everyone's comments about which amiga to pick.
After serious consideration, I have really good news !!!
I can KEEP my amiga 2000, and get the amiga 4000 !!!
I have a special desk which I use for decorations, it'll be very tough
for me to clean it(get rid of nice decorations)but I can use the extra
room to put an a4000 on it.
I am not going to have the money til christmas (my gift !!!)so I have
plenty of time to decided if or not to buy it (amiga 4000).
Thank you all !!!
A win/win Red!
From an old Amiga guy, since you know the 2000 and it works for you, glad you kept it.
A 2000 is very similar in price to a 4000 to upgrade. I might even humbly suggest putting your money into the 2000 and not getting the 4000. An accelerator and video card in the 2000 make it a different machine altogether and much faster than a stock 4000 with aga.
I never use AGA on my 4000D, all games I have are ECS and RTG is the only way to go for productivity. IMHO the 2000 is the least problematic big box Amiga. I rarely see a a 2000 fail and they aren't as "twitchy" as the 3000/4000.
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I'm pretty sure the A4000 came out before the A1200, and with 68040/25Mhz (A3040). The model you're referring to came out afterwards in 1993 with built in 030/25Mhz on the motherboard.
Only the 4000 "CR" (Cost Reduced) had the '030 on the motherboard. Most A4000/030s have the 030 on a daughterboard, same as the '040.
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I just thought I'd throw in that I absolutely love my A4000D, especially after getting an 060 in it. The difference between that and the 040 is staggering. So I could only imagine the difference between an 68000 and an 68040.
Besides, why would anyone suggest the A2000 over the A4000? Since he programs, he'd be able to support OCS/ECS/AGA with the 4000, instead of just OCS/ECS!
And we all know we need more programmers! :D
But it's awesome that he's able to have both. Better for compatibility reasons.
slaapliedje
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I just thought I'd throw in that I absolutely love my A4000D, especially after getting an 060 in it. The difference between that and the 040 is staggering. So I could only imagine the difference between an 68000 and an 68040.
Besides, why would anyone suggest the A2000 over the A4000? Since he programs, he'd be able to support OCS/ECS/AGA with the 4000, instead of just OCS/ECS!
And we all know we need more programmers! :D
But it's awesome that he's able to have both. Better for compatibility reasons.
slaapliedje
I got rid of my A4000 and I much prefer my A3000/060/PIV/Deneb.
I don't miss the AGA chipset as I very rarely used it due to the PIV tbh. I have A1200's for the odd AGA demo or game.
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I got rid of my A4000 and I much prefer my A3000/060/PIV/Deneb.
I don't miss the AGA chipset as I very rarely used it due to the PIV tbh. I have A1200's for the odd AGA demo or game.
Absolutely agree. I prefer my A3000 over my A4000, it is the best big box Amiga IMHO. The Picasso IV looks like a sweet card, never tried one out though...
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I just thought I'd throw in that I absolutely love my A4000D, especially after getting an 060 in it. The difference between that and the 040 is staggering. So I could only imagine the difference between an 68000 and an 68040.
Besides, why would anyone suggest the A2000 over the A4000? Since he programs, he'd be able to support OCS/ECS/AGA with the 4000, instead of just OCS/ECS!
And we all know we need more programmers! :D
But it's awesome that he's able to have both. Better for compatibility reasons.
slaapliedje
I would agree that going from a Amiga 3640@25MHz to a 060@50MHz with local memory and SCSI Controller makes a HUGE difference.
Would also say, going from a Warp Engine 040@40MHz with local memory and SCSI to a CS MK III is faster. If you compare to a CS MK I or II without SCSI, the Warp Engine it is give and take. For math the 060 is faster, for general usage the WE is faster (Since the WE has faster memory access then the MK II).
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Now that you mention it the amount of AGA games - worth playing - are pretty scarce. There were a bunch of AGA titles, but it was back to the dodgy ports, from other computers.
Still AGA is a cheaper graphics upgrade than trying to hunt an rtg card down.
I take it the A4000 is a bit more fragile because the chips are soldered to the board instead of in a socket?
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I would agree that going from a Amiga 3640@25MHz to a 060@50MHz with local memory and SCSI Controller makes a HUGE difference.
Would also say, going from a Warp Engine 040@40MHz with local memory and SCSI to a CS MK III is faster. If you compare to a CS MK I or II without SCSI, the Warp Engine it is give and take. For math the 060 is faster, for general usage the WE is faster (Since the WE has faster memory access then the MK II).
So I have the CS MK I, but no SCSI module. Quite frankly, SCSI is too loud. :D My next upgrade down the road is probably going to be a FastATA and switch over to using CF cards. I also wish I could get a CD or DVD rom that isn't as loud or as long as the one I currently have. By Long, I mean if I could get one that is a couple inches shorter, I would have that much more room for cable management and air flow!
Any recommendations on a replacement CD-ROM?
slaapliedje
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@ CD-ROM above
The latest SATA CD/DVD drives are very quiet and reasonably short. Could you spring for an ide to SATA adapter? I think they are only $15 dollars.
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I would agree that going from a Amiga 3640@25MHz to a 060@50MHz with local memory and SCSI Controller makes a HUGE difference.
Would also say, going from a Warp Engine 040@40MHz with local memory and SCSI to a CS MK III is faster. If you compare to a CS MK I or II without SCSI, the Warp Engine it is give and take. For math the 060 is faster, for general usage the WE is faster (Since the WE has faster memory access then the MK II).
I went from a WE/040 to a CS MK2/060 with the SCSI adapter.
I have and ACard IDE to SCSI adapter with a 32GB SDHC card fitted to it so it's nice and silent and the speed is much better than the IDE on my A4000 was. I've got an external SCSI DVD writer attached to the onboard A3000 SCSI too.
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So I have the CS MK I, but no SCSI module. Quite frankly, SCSI is too loud. :D My next upgrade down the road is probably going to be a FastATA and switch over to using CF cards. I also wish I could get a CD or DVD rom that isn't as loud or as long as the one I currently have. By Long, I mean if I could get one that is a couple inches shorter, I would have that much more room for cable management and air flow!
Any recommendations on a replacement CD-ROM?
slaapliedje
I really recommend trying to get hold of the SCSI adapter for your Cyberstorm as the DMA transfer makes a big difference over the PIO you'll get from a FastATA, although a FastATA is a bazillion times better than the onboard IDE on the A4000.
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So I have the CS MK I, but no SCSI module. Quite frankly, SCSI is too loud. :D My next upgrade down the road is probably going to be a FastATA and switch over to using CF cards. I also wish I could get a CD or DVD rom that isn't as loud or as long as the one I currently have. By Long, I mean if I could get one that is a couple inches shorter, I would have that much more room for cable management and air flow!
Any recommendations on a replacement CD-ROM?
slaapliedje
Would also recommend you get the scsi module to free up the cpu. Anything is better then the onboard 4000 IDE, but scsi is a bit more elegant.
I use an acard scsi to sata adapter. It works great and my 3000D with the SSD and quiet cpu fan makes it whisper along...
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Would also recommend you get the scsi module to free up the cpu. Anything is better then the onboard 4000 IDE, but scsi is a bit more elegant.
I use an acard scsi to sata adapter. It works great and my 3000D with the SSD and quiet cpu fan makes it whisper along...
Interesting, I hadn't ever seen a SCSI to SATA adapter. I'm not sure how costly / rare the SCSI module is for the CS MK I, but I was hoping I could get the Adaptec 2940UW working as a 'native' device, but unfortunately there isn't a way for the PCI bus to be booted off of natively (at least that I'm aware of.) I did get my big fatty 10k RPM Ultra160 drive working on it, but only as a secondary device. I also had forgotten how loud that thing is...not to mention how hot it got. Still, I like to keep my options open :D
slaapliedje