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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: freqmax on June 11, 2013, 12:00:21 AM

Title: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: freqmax on June 11, 2013, 12:00:21 AM
Is there any management of the Hardware Manufacturer Numbers used by Autoconfig that were assigned by the Commodore Amiga Technical Support in West Chester, Pennsylvania in the past?
(as mentioned here googlecode.com: AUTOCONF.TXT (http://winuae-mod.googlecode.com/svn/tags/winuae_2_0_2/!docs/Hardware%20Reference%20Manual%201/AUTOCONF.TXT))
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: Matt_H on June 11, 2013, 02:17:32 AM
There is a list of assigned IDs somewhere, can't recall where though.
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: magnetic on June 11, 2013, 02:25:42 AM
yeah i've seen a list too online... if i find it again i'll post it
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: mongo on June 11, 2013, 03:03:39 AM
http://amigabillprojects.wikispaces.com/Amiga+Autoconfig+IDs
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: billt on June 11, 2013, 04:50:07 AM
Quote from: freqmax;737455
Is there any management of the Hardware Manufacturer Numbers used by Autoconfig that were assigned by the Commodore Amiga Technical Support in West Chester, Pennsylvania in the past?
(as mentioned here googlecode.com: AUTOCONF.TXT (http://winuae-mod.googlecode.com/svn/tags/winuae_2_0_2/!docs/Hardware%20Reference%20Manual%201/AUTOCONF.TXT))

Everything I was able to learn about these things is shown here:
http://amigabillprojects.wikispaces.com/Amiga+Autoconfig+IDs

Olaf Barthel is as best of a maintainer as you may get, since he owns the relevant OS sourcecode. Though I'm not sure how to get to that discussion on UtilityBase anymore.

From what I remember of the story, there were two files storing the database at Commodore. They moved buildings and lost one of them or something, so some IDs may be lost. I've forgotten any good detail about what I think I'm remembering here.
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: olsen on June 11, 2013, 09:20:24 AM
Quote from: freqmax;737455
Is there any management of the Hardware Manufacturer Numbers used by Autoconfig that were assigned by the Commodore Amiga Technical Support in West Chester, Pennsylvania in the past?
(as mentioned here googlecode.com: AUTOCONF.TXT (http://winuae-mod.googlecode.com/svn/tags/winuae_2_0_2/!docs/Hardware%20Reference%20Manual%201/AUTOCONF.TXT))


Please have a look at the hardware manufacturer ID (http://wiki.amigaos.net/index.php/Amiga_Hardware_Manufacturer_ID_Registry) page on the AmigaOS wiki. Although I can take care of assigning IDs if you need it, the procedure outlined on the page is the official one now.

The page has been recently updated and polished, and it also contains a list of IDs that are on record.

Please note that the list of IDs on the page is probably incomplete. Which means that you can't just grab one from the historic number ranges (say, 1999) and expect it to work. While the risk may be low that there will be collision, why take chances?
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: zipper on June 11, 2013, 09:39:44 AM
Incomplete, yes. For instance missing Petsoff, makers of Delfina and DblScan.
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: olsen on June 11, 2013, 10:28:54 AM
Quote from: zipper;737498
Incomplete, yes. For instance missing Petsoff, makers of Delfina and DblScan.


Which ID would that be?
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: zipper on June 11, 2013, 01:09:31 PM
Re amiga.resource.cx:
Delfina (Classic)  Petsoff, Finland   Date 1996     Autoconfig ID 14501 / 0
Delfina Lite  Petsoff Date 1997  Autoconfig ID 14501 / 1
Delfina Plus Petsoff Date 2001    Autoconfig ID 14501 / 2
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: nicholas on June 11, 2013, 01:57:41 PM
Is this any help?

http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/BoardsLib
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: olsen on June 11, 2013, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: zipper;737522
Re amiga.resource.cx:
Delfina (Classic)  Petsoff, Finland   Date 1996     Autoconfig ID 14501 / 0
Delfina Lite  Petsoff Date 1997  Autoconfig ID 14501 / 1
Delfina Plus Petsoff Date 2001    Autoconfig ID 14501 / 2


My, that's a weird one. To the best of my knowledge, this ID was not assigned by Commodore, Amiga Technologies GmbH or anybody else who assumed responsibility for registering IDs since then. Commodore would have picked a number from the 2000 or 4000 range, and Amiga Technologies GmbH, etc. would have picked one from the 5000 range.

Anyway, I'll make a note to record the ID.
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: olsen on June 11, 2013, 02:07:22 PM
Quote from: nicholas;737527
Is this any help?

http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/BoardsLib


No, unfortunately not. There is no list of manufacturer IDs included, it's "binary only".
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: freqmax on June 11, 2013, 02:43:18 PM
Disassemble it?

Or make UAE trigger various IDs and grab them from the utility?
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: olsen on June 11, 2013, 03:02:41 PM
Quote from: freqmax;737533
Disassemble it?

Or make UAE trigger various IDs and grab them from the utility?


Since providing a complete list of assigned and appropriated manufacturer ID is probably not even possible, I guess this might be a bit more work than is worth it...

Besides, sending an e-mail to the author of the library and asking him for a copy of his ID table might be just as effective ;)
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: Thomas on June 11, 2013, 04:48:45 PM
Quote from: olsen;737530
No, unfortunately not. There is no list of manufacturer IDs included, it's "binary only".


This guy should have the source code: http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36714

He also worked on a program which lists all boards known to the library.
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: freqmax on June 11, 2013, 05:49:39 PM
I think this is not so much about where to get data, as to who makes the final call on ID assignment. I guess there has not been any ID-collision yet?
(given that SKIstor 2000 (1989) has the autoconfig ID 32768 (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?intf=z2) and netbsd sources (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZrqhOWF_24wJ:http://www.cs.albany.edu/~sdc/Linux/linux/include/asm-m68k/zorro.h&ct=clnk) hint that it's 16-bit unsigned, collision may not be that unlikely)

How many new devices is produced per year btw?
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: olsen on June 11, 2013, 07:34:03 PM
Quote from: freqmax;737554
I think this is not so much about where to get data, as to who makes the final call on ID assignment.


It's simple enough: if somebody asks for an ID and provides the information which is filed along with the ID, he will receive a new manufacturer ID. There is not much call for new IDs, and so far nobody has tried any funny business.

Quote
I guess there has not been any ID-collision yet?
(given that SKIstor 2000 (1989) has the autoconfig ID 32768 (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?intf=z2) and netbsd sources (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZrqhOWF_24wJ:http://www.cs.albany.edu/~sdc/Linux/linux/include/asm-m68k/zorro.h&ct=clnk) hint that it's 16-bit unsigned, collision may not be that unlikely)


It's hard to say if there ever was a problem with ID collisions. From what I know, most of the Amiga hardware that ever was and needed a manufacturer ID was produced when Commodore was still in business. Fewer than 300 developers requested manufacturer IDs, and from the different fields they were working in, it would have been a real coincidence if any Amiga would contain even two different expansion boards by different developers sharing the same ID.

Quote
How many new devices is produced per year btw?


A year with more than one new manufacturer IDs to be assigned would be the rare exception. In the last 15 years only 11 new ID have been assigned.
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: freqmax on June 11, 2013, 08:03:24 PM
Which ones are the latest additions?

Seems at least like the ID space won't run out like IPv4 will ;)
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: ssolie on June 11, 2013, 08:32:52 PM
Quote from: zipper;737522
Re amiga.resource.cx:
Delfina (Classic)  Petsoff, Finland   Date 1996     Autoconfig ID 14501 / 0
Delfina Lite  Petsoff Date 1997  Autoconfig ID 14501 / 1
Delfina Plus Petsoff Date 2001    Autoconfig ID 14501 / 2


Fixed on the official Amiga Hardware Manufacturer ID Registry (http://wiki.amigaos.net/index.php/Amiga_Hardware_Manufacturer_ID_Registry).
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: ChaosLord on June 11, 2013, 08:58:53 PM
I was reading the list and I am wondering if "Digital Pacific" is the same thing as "Pacific Digital".  I wish there was a year of registration field so I could have an idea.

Trying to make sure my voicemail card was properly registered.
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: olsen on June 12, 2013, 07:07:58 AM
Quote from: freqmax;737569
Which ones are the latest additions?


Funny that you should ask ;)  This is not a particularly exciting subject. The latest additions are the numbers 5014 through 5017 (assigned in the last two years). They were assigned to developers who are making smaller batches of hardware expansions, such as CPU cards, memory expansions, I/O expansions (USB/Ethernet) and even virtual hardware for new Amigas (if I understand the product description info correctly).

Quote

Seems at least like the ID space won't run out like IPv4 will ;)


At this rate, we'll have run out in 50,000 years or so. Then it's somebody else's problem ;)
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: bubbob42 on July 18, 2013, 08:35:48 PM
Alas, noone seems to read guides nowadays... ;)

"showboards allknown" lists all boards and manufacturers known to boards.library.

@olsen: I included a FAQ in the guide, stating that registrations should go through Hyperion's contact form. However, that form is a bit hard to find (at least for me). Perhaps an email address could be added to the wiki page?

Best regards,

Marcus
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: JimDrew on July 19, 2013, 07:17:09 AM
2171 is there! :)
Title: Re: Autoconfig, Hardware Manufacturer Number?
Post by: bubbob42 on July 19, 2013, 11:06:36 AM
Also note that some developers lately got the IDs they suggested by themselves from the pool of free ones, so the equation "recently added = high number" is not always true.