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Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: SysAdmin on June 10, 2013, 09:00:39 PM
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What should we all think about Apple's boatload of new announcements?
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/apples-airport-extreme-and-time-capsule-models-debut-with-80211ac-support
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/apple-announces-itunes-radio-for-ios-7-mac-pc-apple-tv
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/siri-gains-new-voice-gender-options-system-controls-enhanced-car-support-in-ios-7
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/apple-reveals-overhauled-ios-7-with-flatter-more-colorful-design
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/apple-offers-sneak-peek-at-new-cylindrical-mac-pro-assembled-in-the-usa
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/apple-unveils-new-macbook-air-lineup-with-all-day-battery-life-80211ac-wi-fi
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Who gives a shıt?
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Sorry, Apple: "Pros" need the ability to burn discs, add hard drives, expand RAM, and install new PCIe cards - internally. This little monolith of a Mac Pro ain't going to cut it. It's essentially a tall Mac mini with better chips and more ports - no thanks.
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What should we all think about Apple's boatload of new announcements?
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/apples-airport-extreme-and-time-capsule-models-debut-with-80211ac-support
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/apple-announces-itunes-radio-for-ios-7-mac-pc-apple-tv
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/siri-gains-new-voice-gender-options-system-controls-enhanced-car-support-in-ios-7
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/apple-reveals-overhauled-ios-7-with-flatter-more-colorful-design
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/apple-offers-sneak-peek-at-new-cylindrical-mac-pro-assembled-in-the-usa
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/10/apple-unveils-new-macbook-air-lineup-with-all-day-battery-life-80211ac-wi-fi
"iRadio" - I don't quite get the picture from the article, is it something like spotify?
Siri - couldn't care less as long as my language (Swedish) isn't supported. Couldn't tell if this new version will.
iOS7 - the design, aesthetics, and features looks very promising! I'm sure it will be very good and that we who prefer iOS over Android will still feel like home! :)
Mac Pro - my first knee-jerk reaction: it looks like some kind of el-cheapo subwoofer for teenagers. But at a second glance it's a really interesting design, both how its done "under the hood" and the features. This is something unique again, rather than just a PC in a PC chassis with apple logo. Specifications looks impressive and it will offer everything that most people will need. I think Mac people will be appealed by this, especially if it also comes in white or silver. :) Wouldn't mind running MorphOS on that one! :p ;)
:)
(But where is the news about new iPhones?)
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Sorry, Apple: "Pros" need the ability to burn discs, add hard drives, expand RAM, and install new PCIe cards - internally. This little monolith of a Mac Pro ain't going to cut it. It's essentially a tall Mac mini with better chips and more ports - no thanks.
Personally, I have a hard time remembering the last time I ever burned a disc. On any platform. Slow, expensive, and tends to result in a lot of discs just collecting dust. If it's not already a dead medium, it's for sure dying. And an external burner is dead cheap anyway, and you can put it in a drawer somewhere whenever you aren't needing it (which will probably be like 99% of the computer's usage time spread out over its entire lifetime).
Last time I put together a PC (my current Core-i7) I thought like you did - got to have room for additional RAM, HDD's, PCI/PCIe cards, etc. But guess what, I bought enough RAM in the first place so there has never been any need to expand. The storage has been more than sufficient as well, never had to put another HDD inside (I have bought another NAS though, have a few now, the latest one was a 2 HDD RAID one for storing the *really* important stuff, and they are all available to *all* my computers on my gigabit LAN, IMHO this is the way to go). The bandwidth in the built-in "HDD" (the PCIe based SSD) will be massive, noticeably faster than traditional SATA SSD disks, and what, 10x faster than traditional HDD's? Perfect as a basis for all your work, and then you complement this with unlimited cheap bulk storage on your network. And I have lots of PCIe slots on my big motherboard. The only one used is for the graphics card. Never ever had the need to install anything else, and come to think of it, this has been the same for the last 2 or 3 desktop PC's I bought. And is there really anything worth putting in there that can't be added through USB or whatever?
EDIT: And I really like the thermal/cooling approach taken by using this design. Very creative! :)
:)
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and why is that so bad ? I've not burned any discs for some years now, my dvd burner will likely die of old age instead of usage. Same with adding PCIe cards... I cant think of any I would need. Adding memory: agree, but haven't found what that tower supports. Adding harddisks: certainly agree, but if TB drives become common place e.g. cheaper... then 36 devices (including displays) sounds more then plenty :)
Tom UK
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@ takemehomegrandma & Nostalgiac
From an average-user perspective, your points definitely have merit. Yes, disc burning is getting to be less and less necessary. But if I'm a Pro user, I need to be able to burn a master of my new CD/DVD on a regular basis. I need to be able to slap in a new hard drive as I need it - daisy chaining half a dozen external drives with power supplies and Kensington locks for all of them is a ridiculous option. I need to be able to double my RAM or swap in a new graphics card when I realize I need a little more performance but don't have the budget (or time) to buy and prep a brand new system. I need to be able to add new cards for specialty purposes as the need arises.
If they were positioning this as a mid-range - or even high-end - home desktop system or small office server, I think that would be fair. But to call it "Pro" and target the professional market at the extremely high price tag I'm sure it will have, that's absurd.
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If I wanted apple news, I would surf to apple sites.
Who cares?
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If I wanted apple news, I would surf to apple sites.
Who cares?
'Cause it's fun to see what our community thinks of "the popular stuff" :)
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If I wanted apple news, I would surf to apple sites.
Who cares?
Yeah... another one tired of notices nothing to do with amiga.
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Wow, I'm a computer building oddball. I rebuild my system every few years. Currently, I'm planning the next upgrades. Slots are filled with cards; TV card, wireless network adapter, GPU. CPU has been upgraded once, and the next CPU upgrade require a new motherboard and memory. Memory has been upgraded once with more and faster RAM. OS and programs on one HD, a RAID5, and a HD for recorded TV. DVD was upgraded to Bluray. Burn a few discs a month. Mainly, for backing up important projects and archiving.
I have a space heater that looks like at new Mac. Novel design, will sell to Mac fans. It has to be topend for next year as it's unexpandable or upgradeable. Basically, the next Mac Mini or Mac Cube.
Nothing really shocking or exciting, just expected upgrades. Siri gets better, wow. iRadio, can't have our customers use Pandora, Groveshark, Spotify, etc. Ooo, Wireless AC just keeping current.
Morphos fans, start bugging Ralph and Piru to get it ported over to 12 core Xeons.
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What a useless design and very boring on top of that.
Good design is more than just being different.
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I need to be able to burn a master of my new CD/DVD on a regular basis.
If you *really* need to still burn stuff in this decade, a $50 external burner will do just that for you! ;)
I need to be able to slap in a new hard drive as I need it - daisy chaining half a dozen external drives with power supplies and Kensington locks for all of them is a ridiculous option.
I must say this "slapping in new hard drives" is very unusual and probably not anywhere near typical usage (even for "pro" users, whatever that means). Most offices have central storage anyway, especially for bulk storage, heck even at common peoples homes a NAS is quite common.
I'd say that there are two main goals with storage development today: Speed (for your OS, your applications, and the work-data you are currently working on) OR Size (bulkstorage and archiving). You easily spot this fact when browsing the offerings of any on-line computer store; they have very fast but capacity limited SSD's for the first requirement, and they also have very high storage capacity but very slow (in comparison) HDD's for the second requirement.
This Apple machine embrace and adopts these extremes to the fullest. People today use SSD disks in their standard SATA controllers to gain speed, but the SATA standard in itself is a limiting factor, so this new Mac uses a PCIe based SSD controller that provides a storage that is 2.5x as fast as normal SSD's and up to 10x as fast as those old and traditional HDD's.
HDD's has never been cheaper per Byte, their storage capacity is enormous, but they are very slow to the alternatives so they are best used for cheap bulk storage of massive data, archiving purposes, or backups. Frankly, I see no reason to have that inside a computer case, not when the various possible external interfaces are so fast as they are today, not when the amount of HDD's *outside* the computer case is virtually unlimited.
I need to be able to double my RAM
That may be so, but I think it's a bit odd. I have never ever had the need to double my RAM. Maybe it's because I bought enough in the first place, I don't know? Whenever I have bought new RAM (every 4 years or so), a new motherboard, CPU, GFX card, etc came with it! ;)
I don't know how much RAM this machine will have, but I'm sure it will be enough for 12 cores to play with. :)
or swap in a new graphics card when I realize I need a little more performance
OK, many PC gamers who puts an honor in boasting about FPS numbers and test scores etc switches GFX card from time to time. But I think few others bothers. I know lots of Mac people and I have never heard it would be a frequent thing in the Mac community to change GFX cards on a particularly regular basis. Especially not among the "pro" people. They buy a Mac, they use it for a few years until its specs are falling behind or it breaks, then they buy another one. And something tells me this "GFX card" (or rather: dual ones) will offer top-notch performance, enough for every potential Mac Pro customer out there.
but don't have the budget
Ah, but something tells me this computer will be mostly for people *with* a budget! ;) A custom design in its truest sense, highest performance components everywhere, Apple brand, and it's even assembled in the US (not in China). It won't be cheap, it won't be for people "buying a cheap GFX card now with an ambition to upgrade it later to the one they *really* wanted". Mac customers in general don't work like that!
;)
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Good design is more than just being different.
This design enables squeezing in a lot of high performance, heat generating controllers in a very limited space using an unique and creative thermal/cooling solution with a single fan that probably keeps things very quiet compared to other designs. I think this design will win prizes.
Of course, it also *looks* a bit odd, but that's not necessarily a bad thing for a Mac you know... :p ;)
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pro spelt backwards is orp
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And when that single fan fails, which they do.
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And when that single fan fails, which they do.
I'm not an apple fan, but presumably same thing that would happen if the fan failed on a PC CPU cooler: The machine shuts down, and you replace the fan.
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I agree that it's kinda out of place on an amiga site, BUT you guys are all being crab a$$3S IMO. The Pro is kinda cool looking but should just be a 3rd option and not a replacement for the tower form. Linda in between the pro and Imac. Apple Ipro ;).
OS 7 looks good from an Ipad perspective, now we just need IUAE :D
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just a rip off
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And when that single fan fails, which they do.
I guess then you will have to replace it...
:(
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Sorry, Apple: "Pros" need the ability to burn discs, add hard drives, expand RAM, and install new PCIe cards - internally. This little monolith of a Mac Pro ain't going to cut it. It's essentially a tall Mac mini with better chips and more ports - no thanks.
Quite apparent you've never used Thunderbolt. It's more than capable. The Mac Pro can drive triple displays in 4k resolutions (3840 pixels × 2160) via Thunderbolt. Optical media was dead half a decade ago, being extremely generous on that. I've got a 2009-ish iMac that's never had a disc in its optical drive. Ever. Never, ever.
No one dropping 4 large plus on a Mac Pro gives 2 craps about burning discs. It's there to edit video and audio to a central host/server and nothing more. It's not a consumer grade device, people will be editing HD and Ultra HD content on it and a optical drive to them is about as useful as a floppy drive.
Personally, the extruded/cored heatsink internal case design is quite neat, but nothing new. I had a massive old PC case (Zalman, iirc) years ago that the entire case was a heatsink, no fans required even on a highly overclocked machine. Thing was as heavy as a tank, but dead silent.
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just a rip off
Sweet, I can easily keep the inside clean and dusted. Where can I obtain one of these Iwipes ?!:idea:
You sir, are a genius !
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Not sure how I feel about the new Mac Pro, and I'm a happy apple user... I wouldn't mind one of those new MacBook Airs... But my contribution to this thread is that Optical Media is very much dead... CDs died a long time ago, DVDs are just a pain now, I've ripped most of mine to My hard drive... And my HD movies were bought from iTunes...
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It's funny how many people consider "I personally do not use optical media" and "nobody uses optical media" to be synonymous.
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It's funny how many people consider "I personally do not use optical media" and "nobody uses optical media" to be synonymous.
Actually, I agree with you. It it very selfish attitude on mine to suggest that in my post... But I have to say, I think Apple are correct to ditch the optical drive... Their single SSD slot on the other hand seems, inadequate... :-/
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Yeah... another one tired of notices nothing to do with amiga.
Then stip reading "Other Operating Systems"
It's always interesting to see the same people complaining that "Other Operating Systems" forum has stuff about Other Operating Systems on it.....
(http://forums.techguy.org/attachments/92223d1163880222/duh.gif)
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I dunno...i think optical is still good for when you screw up your system. What I don't get is that 4 to 8 gig sd cards could be pretty cheap if they sold more of them right ? Why not just put the OS disk and utilities on a cheap, non writable one and give every computer a bootable sd slot ?
No more scratched media, but easier to lose...so it evens out as far as selling replacement copies too.
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pro spelt backwards is orp
And Mac Pro is an anagram of Mo Crap.
Mo' crap from apple.
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I dunno...i think optical is still good for when you screw up your system. What I don't get is that 4 to 8 gig sd cards could
Apple hasn't included optical recovery media for years is the only issue there. Most of their product line already don't have optical drives, the recommended route for system restoration being a USB key for which they have a very nice recovery prep util. 100x easier and nicer, imo. Not even sure if you can buy Mountain Lion on optical media at a brick and mortar store, tbh.
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And Mac Pro is an anagram of Mo Crap.
Mo' crap from apple.
I happen to like apple...but I still have to +1 you on that :D
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Since I just sold my Imac, I can tell you recovery media was supplied until LION with the Imacs and the Macbook series. Starting with LION, one had the option of USB key, bu5t you could buy lion from the store (best buy for 29.99). After Lion (current is Mountain Lion)
only options are usb key from Apple store, roll your own USB key (easy), or download from App Store).
I still run OSX (mountain Lion) on my pc (this one I post with
).
Not meaning to sound flamey...just filling you in on the current state of restore media as you prob not an apple fan from the sound of it.
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I happen to like apple...but I still have to +1 you on that :D
Thanks.
To be honest I'm not an apple hater, just not a fan either. I guess I'm just down on big corporate greedy self serving capitalist scum in general. :D
It's nice to know some fellow Amigans have a sense of humour though, it's an important part of being human.
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Thanks.
To be honest I'm not an apple hater, just not a fan either. I guess I'm just down on big corporate greedy self serving capitalist scum in general. :D
It's nice to know some fellow Amigans have a sense of humour though, it's an important part of being human.
But we needed those scum to fund C= development (Irving Gould) and later ruin it (Amiga)
First to get it invented - C64
Later, so my $200 dollar 64 did not cost 205.00 or 210.00 even by paying workers a good wage ! That extra 10 would've ruined it...greedy bastards !
( Actually, I think if Jack would've been more greedy on the retail end by 5 bucks, he could've made the money he needed to expand and tell Gould to F OFF ! They might've had enough money to pay suppliers, roll out a good graphics chip, and get the parts they needed to sell enough Amigas to still be around, or at least be around longer.)
Brian Bagnell's book is a great read, worth the 9 bucks (as much as I hate kindle - I converted it to Ebook - Take THAT Amazon)
On the edge: the spectacular rise and fall of Commodore
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Sorry, Apple: "Pros" need the ability to burn discs, add hard drives, expand RAM, and install new PCIe cards - internally. This little monolith of a Mac Pro ain't going to cut it. It's essentially a tall Mac mini with better chips and more ports - no thanks.
Internal PCIe cards are not needed when you have 20gbps data flow over thunderbolt. If what you need isn't already inside you just add an enclosure and the card you want and voila, you're good to go. Even better, you can take that enclosure and use it on your laptop too if you need it on the go.
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Who gives a shıt?
@commodorejohn
While I respect your opinions, why troll Other Operating Systems just so you can exclaim about your overly strong distaste for Apple? This thread would be a nicer environment if people just had constructive criticism and/or debated the question of the thread. If you have nothing good to say about the topic and can't even say something bad in a constructive manner, please don't say anything about it at all.
Thanks
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Internal PCIe cards are not needed when you have 20gbps data flow over thunderbolt. If what you need isn't already inside you just add an enclosure and the card you want and voila, you're good to go. Even better, you can take that enclosure and use it on your laptop too if you need it on the go.
True, but that sh## costs too much still, why I bought A non TB board vs TB..by the time it's reasonable...thunderbolt 3 will be out !
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Brian Bagnell's book is a great read, worth the 9 bucks (as much as I hate kindle - I converted it to Ebook - Take THAT Amazon)
On the edge: the spectacular rise and fall of Commodore
I should read it, I know I should but I just can't help reading Lovecraftian horror instead.
It's a strange thing though, I notice a lot of IT companies start off with some clever people who are idealistic and not overly concerned with making cash. They just end up as evil corporations when they start selling shares and are driven by keeping the short term interests of those shareholders happy. Let's face it, some of them even get arrogant enough to then sack the guys who started it. It's sad when such a company looses it's Jobs...
....hold on this is sounding familiar, but then this is an Apple thread.
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Then stip reading "Other Operating Systems"
It's always interesting to see the same people complaining that "Other Operating Systems" forum has stuff about Other Operating Systems on it.....
(http://forums.techguy.org/attachments/92223d1163880222/duh.gif)
Yes, you are right, threads about mac ppc hardware for morphos is ok... but this "news" a.org becomes mac.org, but dont worry is just my opinion.
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*sigh* yet another shrill and pointless, non-Amiga/Commodore related thread.
In the words of Ultravox 'This means NOTHING to me'
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This book actually covers some Apple goings on and covers the demotion of WOZ about 1/2 way through. Since apple was right across the street from C=, and C='S lead designer worked at apple for awile, we get some good gossip and such about when they started to turn evil (apple). :)
It's a good horror story (the book) in it's own right, even got some corp. espionage :D
I may try some of what you are reading after this book.
I should read it, I know I should but I just can't help reading Lovecraftian horror instead.
It's a strange thing though, I notice a lot of IT companies start off with some clever people who are idealistic and not overly concerned with making cash. They just end up as evil corporations when they start selling shares and are driven by keeping the short term interests of those shareholders happy. Let's face it, some of them even get arrogant enough to then sack the guys who started it. It's sad when such a company looses it's Jobs...
....hold on this is sounding familiar, but then this is an Apple thread.
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I'll walk back my criticism a little bit, since it appears now that the Mac Pro RAM will be user-upgradable, at least.
But my main points stand. For a "professional" machine at the price that this thing will go for, one should not have to:
1. Shell out additional cash for a CD drive, expensive external hard drives, Thunderbolt dock, and/or PCIe chassis when the need arises. The only way this severe curtailing of expandability can be justified is if the machine itself is significantly cheaper than the current model, which is highly unlikely.
2. Deal with the clutter of all that external crap on one's desk. Tower cases were invented to clean up the mess of peripherals we had all over the place in the 80s and early 90s. They're a good concept, worthy of the market they're intended for, and shouldn't be thrown away just because some Apple engineers think circles are cool.
Actually, what I really worry about is the copycat designs this will spawn. PC manufacturers came out with some truly (http://www.techimo.com/forum/attachments/motherboards/11889d1095123556-compaq-presario-5726-desktop-pc-w-pentiumiii-5726.jpg) horrendous (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/HP_PAVILION_8750.JPG) case designs after the first iMac appeared.
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@ Matt_H
The HP case you linked to is nasty...
...but this one is even worse:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112217
What a stinker.
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@ Matt_H
The HP case you linked to is nasty...
...but this one is even worse:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112217
What a stinker.
Ick. It's like the TARDIS and that sailboat building in Dubai (https://www.google.com/search?q=sailboat+building+in+dubai&num=100&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=y1-6Uc_pIe2w4AOOyoDgAQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1162&bih=810) had a baby. Glad it's out of stock and discontinued!
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I'm worried that the tubular apple will lead to apples globalization, then to apples half globalization...and eventually......
THIS:
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z469/drinkoldcoke/misc%20crap/IMac_G4_sunflower5.png) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/drinkoldcoke/media/misc%20crap/IMac_G4_sunflower5.png.html)
:sick:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SmrAuvVvKyA
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at the price that this thing will go for, one should not have to:
1. Shell out additional cash for ... ... ... when the need arises.
The positive thing is that you *won't* have to shell out this extra cash if you don't have those needs, as opposite to a tower where everyone must pay for this stuff because it's included in the package and no way around it! Personally I'd be more pissed if I was forced to pay for a stupid optical drive that I won't ever use, and that only makes the case bigger and bulkier than it had to be!
;)
Far from everyone (probably very few actually) will need optical drives, additional PCIe cards or replace the GFX card. Ever.
:)
2. Deal with the clutter of all that external crap on one's desk.
For most people, especially the professionals, I'm sure there won't be much clutter of external crap on the desk. Storage is central on the network anyway and everything 99% will need is included in the case already.
Actually, what I really worry about is the copycat designs this will spawn
For sure it will. Streamlining and integration has been the trend for years, and even on x86 the peripheral controllers are moving into the CPU chip, for example.
I think this design will function as a role model and a source of inspiration even for the PC industry (that is really in a crisis right now). I think it's a great design, in all ways! This is completely in line with the time we live in!
:)
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The positive thing is that you *won't* have to shell out this extra cash if you don't have those needs, as opposite to a tower where everyone must pay for this stuff because it's included in the package and no way around it!
Far from everyone (probably very few actually) will need optical drives, additional PCIe cards or replace the GFX card. Ever.
Wasn't that the entire point behind having two separate product lines, one fully expandable and the other not? Now the Pros are just iMacs with no screen and a heavier-duty CPU. Stupid.
For sure it will. Streamlining and integration has been the trend for years, and even on x86 the peripheral controllers are moving into the CPU chip, for example.
Peripheral controllers are moving into the CPU because those peripheral controllers are an integral part of the PC architecture. Expandability isn't being compromised in the slightest by that.
I think this design will function as a role model and a source of inspiration even for the PC industry (that is really in a crisis right now).
God, I hope not.
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*sigh* yet another shrill and pointless, non-Amiga/Commodore related thread.
In the words of Ultravox 'This means NOTHING to me'
hence, the forum 'Other Operating Systems'. Sheesh, can't you people read? :)
It's not like the pipeline is clogged on here of overflowing news of our 20yr old dead platform and we can't allow news from the 'outside world'.
Us amigans must be the most uptight bunch on the planet. :)
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hence, the forum 'Other Operating Systems'. Sheesh, can't you people read?
It plays a lot differently coming from an official site admin account rather than a regular member (or even one of the mods.) Calls up bad memories of site owners stirring up the CUSA flamewars to boost traffic and making advertising threads for friggin' headphones...
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I'm buying 2...yum !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SmrAuvVvKyA
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hence, the forum 'Other Operating Systems'. Sheesh, can't you people read? :)
It's not like the pipeline is clogged on here of overflowing news of our 20yr old dead platform and we can't allow news from the 'outside world'.
Us amigans must be the most uptight bunch on the planet. :)
It CAN'T be dead...I just got mine...nooooooooooo :laughing:
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@ Matt_H
The HP case you linked to is nasty...
...but this one is even worse:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112217
What a stinker.
I'll top you: http://www.blachford.info/computer/walker/front_page/ATwalker_pub_pic.jpg
arf :)
Tom UK
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And this is one of the most visited threads...
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@kickstart:
Are you going to patent that Ibrush thing...or can I have it ?
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The positive thing is that you *won't* have to shell out this extra cash if you don't have those needs, as opposite to a tower where everyone must pay for this stuff because it's included in the package and no way around it! Personally I'd be more pissed if I was forced to pay for a stupid optical drive that I won't ever use, and that only makes the case bigger and bulkier than it had to be!
Yeah, instead you'll be paying for it and it won't be included!
The new Mac Pro would be a perfectly fine machine at a $1000 or even $1500 price point. But I'm sure they'll be charging the same (or more) as the current model, and customers will be getting a hell of a lot less. The Thunderbolt, CPU, graphics, and disk speed improvements do not make up for the difference.
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i'll top you: http://www.blachford.info/computer/walker/front_page/atwalker_pub_pic.jpg
arf :)
tom uk
blasphemmeeerrrrr!!!!!!
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Ick. It's like the TARDIS and that sailboat building in Dubai (https://www.google.com/search?q=sailboat+building+in+dubai&num=100&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=y1-6Uc_pIe2w4AOOyoDgAQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1162&bih=810) had a baby. Glad it's out of stock and discontinued!
(http://www.ohgizmo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/TARDIS-Tower.jpg)