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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: mikrucio on June 05, 2013, 01:23:16 AM
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hey guys im having trouble finding a good review on this card.
all the youtube videos only show static images. which a 4 dollar scan doubler can do.
Im interested in the 50/60 hz motion on it, if its fully smooth as with a TV.
anyone?
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I'll put it this way. I'll NEVER part with mine.
Wouldn't mind living without my 1084 though. ;)
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so is scrolling smooth? any dropped frames?
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so is scrolling smooth? any dropped frames?
I have had ZERO issues. Displays as well as my PC does. I don't recall having issues in Work Bench, within games, or with any aplications what so ever.
Of course having a quality monitor never hurts either.
I really don't think you'll regret getting one, but wait for everyone else to chime in first. ;)
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Depends if you have a 50Hz capable VGA monitor. Then it's just like a "real" Amiga monitor. If you don't have a 50Hz capable monitor, the compatibility mode introduces some tearing in PAL modes.
To be honest, though, I would prefer a 1084. LCDs don't have the same flexibility for tuning of screenmodes as a CRT. But the Indivision helps with future-proofing my system, so that makes it valuable.
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Yeah thought so.
interlaced to progressive conversion is always hard.
especially from a vintage computer.
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Im interested in the 50/60 hz motion on it, if its fully smooth as with a TV.
On a CRT monitor the 50/60Hz modes are synced and perfectly smooth (pinball, etc), but depending on the monitor, 50Hz can sting the eyes after a while. No 100/120Hz modes, at least not on the MKI Indivision 1200 I had. The ribbon cable did negatively affect image quality a little bit.
No problem on the few LCD monitors I have that support 50Hz, with a bit of the usual LCD smearing (better or worse depending on the LCD). Also, you'll likely have to tweak the monitor settings and may or may not get an acceptable image.
For old games and demos, I ended up with a few Sony RGB broadcast monitors, and couldn't be happier.
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I love my Indivision ECS. With a longer cable (from kipper2k) and some dremeling I've got mine exiting out underneath my floppy drive (like how A1200 users do with the knock-out port), and with the 1.10 firmware update I can do a rock-solid 800x600x16 color Workbench on my 37" LCD. 50hz/60hz no issues, and only very, very infrequently do I ever notice any scrolling issues. Frankly I don't even know why this question even comes up anymore, unless you're some kind of hardware purist the Indivision is about a bazillion times better and more modern than some creaky old CRT. ;) It's like night and day, and for only $100 one of the most reasonably priced Amiga upgrades available.
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1084 CRT = Forget about it, nostalgia reasons only.
Indivision ECS + Latest core + RTG emulation = Drool
It's an amazing upgrade, couldn't get enough of it using it with my A500 plus (well once the two fixes were applied to it). I haven't looked back.
Colours look amazing, and the screen is amazingly clear/crisp. Games look great.
Only reason I don't use it anymore is I have an Indi AGA Mk2 for the 1200 :-)
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yeah i hate LCD's with a passion, they look like crud.
iv got an old Sony e500 CRT i plan on using.
Might pick up an indivision if the wife lets me lol.
Iv also got 2 1084's but they need attention.
was just trying to toss up between repairs or just using the Sony.
thanks guys
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1084 CRT = Forget about it, nostalgia reasons only.
Indivision ECS + Latest core + RTG emulation = Drool
It's an amazing upgrade, couldn't get enough of it using it with my A500 plus (well once the two fixes were applied to it). I haven't looked back.
Colours look amazing, and the screen is amazingly clear/crisp. Games look great.
Only reason I don't use it anymore is I have an Indi AGA Mk2 for the 1200 :-)
Well i've seen the mk1 output and its rather nice, i have an mk2 and its great. However, having said this NOTHING BEATS AN RGB MONITOR FOR AMIGA. MOST GAMES AND DEMOS WERE MADE FOR THIS OUTPUT. The color richness, the dot pitch, etc.. (i'm lucky because i Have a 22in Vizio lcd tv and a Sony 20" RGB monitor hooked up to my a1200 so best of both worlds (and i can tell you if i'm watching demos or gaming i look at the rgb monitor but for productivity def the Vizio with HighGfx hi res mode from HDMI)
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yeah i hate LCD's with a passion, they look like crud.
Yeah, generally no good for old games (IMHO). I have an older 15" Eizo LCD that works pretty well with an Indi/PIV scandoubler, no frameskip, but you still get the smearing with fast 50Hz scrolling.
iv got an old Sony e500 CRT i plan on using.
Should work great. The scandoubled display is kind of nice, for some games I prefer it over the obvious scanlines of a 1084/15kHz monitor. The only problem is the shorter phosphor persistence on the hi-res Trinitrons - at 50Hz they produce quite a bit more flicker than a 1084 would. I recall Jens mentioning the possibility of 100/120Hz synced screenmodes for the Indi ECS, but don't know if they made it into the design. Maybe someone else can confirm.
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DECISIONS DECISIONS!
Might just get the 1084 recapped then...
Im hardcore.
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Well i've seen the mk1 output and its rather nice, i have an mk2 and its great. However, having said this NOTHING BEATS AN RGB MONITOR FOR AMIGA. MOST GAMES AND DEMOS WERE MADE FOR THIS OUTPUT. The color richness, the dot pitch, etc.. (i'm lucky because i Have a 22in Vizio lcd tv and a Sony 20" RGB monitor hooked up to my a1200 so best of both worlds (and i can tell you if i'm watching demos or gaming i look at the rgb monitor but for productivity def the Vizio with HighGfx hi res mode from HDMI)
I actually find the output from the indi's brighter, and the colours more vivid over my 1084.
The clarity playing games on my 24" Dell LCD through the Mk2 is amazing. With the latest core it's on par with the Indivision ECS now.
I did have a high end German (some strange name I can't remember now) CRT 22" TV hooked up with scart and thought that was fantastic over the 1084 but the Indivision ECS I had took it a step better.
Each to their own, the 1084 I'm selling a long with the spring rgb monitor I have here through a local site :-)
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hey guys
I snapped up the latest Indivision from Amigakit
Installed it the other night!
FANTASTIC product.
My Sony CRT scans down to 48khz so got the indi running at 1.00 factor.
works perfect. smooth scrolling and crystal clear.
My only gripe is the RF shield no longer fits back on the A500 without modification (slight)
and there is a slight amount of ghosting in the image (poor quality cable from the indivision coming out of the case of the A500)
Other than that its perfect. Thanks Jens.
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For games and demos 1084 is much better, for workbench productivity indivision is cool and expensive.
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However, having said this NOTHING BEATS AN RGB MONITOR FOR AMIGA. MOST GAMES AND DEMOS WERE MADE FOR THIS OUTPUT. The color richness, the dot pitch, etc.. (i'm lucky because i Have a 22in Vizio lcd tv and a Sony 20" RGB monitor hooked up to my a1200 so best of both worlds (and i can tell you if i'm watching demos or gaming i look at the rgb monitor but for productivity def the Vizio with HighGfx hi res mode from HDMI)
+16
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For games and demos 1084 is much better, for workbench productivity indivision is cool and expensive.
+4
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I went to the cinema the other week and there were a few arcade games there, and one was a car racing game. I had a closer look at it and watched the demo for a while. Well, how utterly crap the screen was...yeah, great on stills but as soon as there's movement on the screen it becomes a blurry heap of steaming poo. How on earth that's supposed to be a better experience than a CRT is absolutely beyond me. Progress? Me thinks not. Step back? Yeah, definitely.
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not compared to my Sony..
Got 2 1084s's for sale in OZ. if anyone wants one.
one works perfect.
the other needs caps.
both phillips models
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What I can say is that it is my personal opinion that the Indivision ECS is perhaps THE best product that Individual computers has released in the last 5 years.
I have one hooked up to my A600, prior to this my A500+ and I am truly delighted with its performance for the price.
yes you could buy cheaper <£20 deinterlacers / scan doublers - i.e. GBS8220 for example. and while that is a cracking bit of kit for the price - the Indi ECS is just delicious.
While on older LCD's the colours are washed and you can get tearing in the extreme, however that is true of even the most expensive up-scalers. Where the Indi ECS really shines is on newer LCD/OLED panels and of course Plasma and good quality CRT.
I have tested mine and the best / impressive results with my 42" Panasonic plasma (SVGA RGB), 19" AOC CRT and 27" LG LCDTV (via VGA RGB)
I can also say I get good results with my GBS8220 with the above devices however the Indi ECS has a very noticeable better output quality (and the GBS8220 does tear slightly on the LG LCD).
Where the Indi ECS really shines is in the added screen modes Hi-GFX and the beta Picasso RTG Chunky Mode - just astounding when one considers is only an A500 or A600 that its plumbed into - you could installed this in the A1000 or even the A3000, although there's something about Amber ;)
All in all, given the pennies in the pocket and the option to buy an Indi ECS for the £80 - ish I would emplore you not to miss that opportunity - it truly is a great product and I still geek out over my A600
A600 Specs :-
[B]Processor:[/B]
020@16.7Mhz - ACA620
[B]Memory:[/B]
10.8MB FAST RAM - ACA620
2MB CHIP - A604
1MB MapROM (load kickstart images from hard-disk-device)
[B]Video[/B]
Indivision ECS [FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][B]8-bit, 15 bit, 16 bit chunky pixel modes[/B] (15 bit & 16 bits are converted) to 12 bits[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Resolution from 320x200 to 1024x768[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Video memory can be directly described by DMA chipset[/B] (up to 7.15 MB/s)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][B] All OCS/ECS screenmodes displayed and scan-converted[/B], output is always over 60Hz and flicker-free[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Fallback to legacy flickerfixer-type 49.9Hz[/B] modes at the user's choice[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Dual monitor support[/B] when two [B]Indivision ECS[/B] are connected together in one Amiga![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] Optional [B]scanline emulation[/B] for retro-feeling[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Video Toaster compatible[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Re-configurable / re-flashable design[/B], new screenmodes can be added with a software upgrade[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Highgfx[/B] support ( larger screenmodes )[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[B]Storage[/B]
4x Buffered IDE Fix (will upgrade to a IDE Fix Express) IDE -> SATA bridge
40GB 2.5" HDD
DVDRW (external SFF SATA)
Its quite ironic, I have just realized after typing this out that perhaps I should slap a "sponsored by Individual Computers" sticker on the bottom of the chassis!
So if you have the opportunity to buy an Indivision ECS then do so... I am pretty sure that once you plug it in and get going you will love your life!
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DECISIONS DECISIONS!
Might just get the 1084 recapped then...
Im hardcore.
Personally,the extra desk space itself justifies switching to an LCD monitor.
Besides, a 24" or larger monitor is kind of cool.
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DECISIONS DECISIONS!
Might just get the 1084 recapped then...
Im hardcore.
I don't have an ECS, but I do have an AGA MK2 and the scan-line emulation looks great.
maybe someone could comment on if the ECS supports that.
I'm hardcore too, but not hardcore enough to tolerate interlace mode or floppy drives.
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I don't have an ECS, but I do have an AGA MK2 and the scan-line emulation looks great.
maybe someone could comment on if the ECS supports that.
I'm hardcore too, but not hardcore enough to tolerate interlace mode or floppy drives.
It does. I tried it on mine, and turned it off again just as quick. Didn't care for scanlines in 1991, care for them even less now, on a 37" LCD. ;)
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Not sure what LCD's people are using, but a good LCD monitor is far better than any CRT/1084 monitor.
No tearing/blur etc, then you have new tech LCD's like LED/OLED and these take it a step further.
a 1080p or higher monitor/TV is amazing. Can't wait for the 4k and 8k tv's later this year/early next year to become more mainstream. The detail and resolution blows 1080p out of the water.
With a decent LCD/Plasma the colours just pop out of the screen, wouldn't go back to a CRT/1084. 24" of LCD goodness is hard to beat.
With the indivision ECS/AGA Mk2 and a decent LCD monitor you'll never go back. Own both of these and I must say the MK2 is now coming along nicely :-)
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Well, there's a huge difference between a 1084, and an expensive Trinitron/Diamondtron or Sony broadcast CRT. For 15kHz gaming, there's simply no comparison against an LCD. The contrast, resolution scaling, lack of motion blur and lag, etc, is all pretty easily noticeable.
For modern gaming/PC/movies, I'll take a good LCD any day. I can still see the blur, but the better monitors (using an Eizo Foris 2332 here) are definitely "good enough" for gaming. Black levels still aren't so hot, but even so, there's no way I'd want a CRT for my PC. :-)
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I use a 19" CRT monitor shared between my Core i5 pc and my mighty Amiga 1200 megaputer. Its an awesome monitor.
No scaling artifacts no matter what resolution I use. This monitor can actually change the size of the pixels to perfectly fit any resolution mode! Gasp! Its magic!
No pixel blur.
I can change EVERY pixel on the screen from ANY color to ANY other color instantly. (Most LCDs cannot do this)
Supports NTSC, PAL, 72Hz, etc. etc. view modes.
I am currently using it in 1280x1024x32bits per pixel @75 Hz.
Works with my Amiga and my bgcpc.
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Don't have any contrast, scaling, motion blur or lag issues with an Indivision ECS/AGA MK2 + 24" Dell monitor or 47" LG TV so not sure what you guys are doing :-)
The colours through the Indi are far better than connecting via SCART or through a 1084 monitor. They are bright and vivid.
It's the best I've seen workbench/whdload gaming.
I had a high end german made crt tv (can't remember the brand now) and I thought that was good at the time but technology moves on :-)
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Yep LCD for me too.
I used to have an old 19" CRT, yes it was a nice picture but it took up half my desk and nearly broke my back every time I wanted to take it to a meeting :)
In the end the tube started to go so I got rid of that monster and went to LCD.
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I've done both... LCD and CRT...
For quality, the CRTs win... Unless you've got some really great LCDish screen (Plasma or ?? I don't know..), I don't see that it's a question really. CRT is better..
But CRTs get MUCH bigger as the screen size goes up.
I currently use a 1084s on my A1000, which I love.. Great image quality...
But my A1200 is connected to an LCD. That's purely for desk space reasons.
My work desk has my work laptop on it, then my main LCD.
I have a KVM for the main LCD, so it's either the 2nd screen for my work laptop, the screen for my desktop, or the screen for my Amiga.
Trying to fit a CRT there that I can use with the Amiga just didn't work.
I actually have a 1702 in the corner of the desk, and it's OK for my Vic-20/Atari 7800/etc, but not for the Amiga with keyboard/mouse. (It's fine for the Amiga with joystick, but I use my 1200 with the keyboard/mouse a lot.)
Now, the Amiga looks pretty good on the LCD. But I prefer to game on my Amiga 1000 with the 1084s. (Which isn't on the same desk, back corner of the office.)
Indivision (which I don't have(GBS), but have seen in action) is a great piece of hardware. And using it with an Amiga is great.
But I prefer CRTs. My MAME machine has a CRT as well.. I just prefer CRTs, when space is available..
desiv
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Ah you guys. What's really funny is when you see kids these days, who've never seen a tube TV before, and you show them one and they go "What's that thing sticking off the back of the TV?!" ;-)
On that note, anyone in the Washington, DC, area need a 1084S-D1? It has it's front panel and all cables, and works fine with the exception of the push-button on the back not staying in (a pretty common problem), there's all sorts of ways to fix that just I haven't bothered since I don't use it anymore, LOL. Am kind of tempted to keep it for nostalgia reasons, but I don't really have a lot of space and am not using it, so PM me an offer?
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CRTs (by this I mean high-end ones) are still the reference for contrast, and lack of input lag and motion blur. Look at the LCD tests on prad.de for example. In addition, non-native screenmodes (Amiga games) are, at least when fullscreen, scaled on LCDs, which annoys some people. Granted, not everyone is sensitive to these issues, or cares. LCD can definitely still "look good" without beating CRT in every category.
Then you get into the strengths/weaknesses and tradeoffs of different LCD panel types. IIRC, Samsung cPVA of a few years back had black levels close to or better than CRT, but the pixel response was very slow. There's still no single perfect LCD tech.
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Damion interesting post
I still maintain that for Amiga gaming and demo watching RGB RULES! Dont forget that these things were Designed with RGB output in mind. The color richness is not matchable on crt or lcd. LIke I said I have an mk2 outputing crystal clear hdmi to a vizio 22 lcd (brand new good quality) and a Sony 20' rgb monitor. And when it comes to games or demos every time i'm watching the Sony. (dual display with hdmi out)