Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: royalcrown on May 22, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
-
How do you guys feel about repainting all or part of a classic? What if "retr0bright" doesn't do the trick on a particular area/unit ?
For me, if I was restoring a unit for my personal use, I'd do the lids, chassis...but never the bezel, or never where the metallic stickers (or other such stickers are. I prefer not to paint over a classic, but if restoring for authentic looks, I am sure it's had to have been done.
No reason other than general chit chat.:pint:
-
I think I'd just have to hope that retrobright worked. I don't like the idea of putting a coat of paint on something if it's almost guarenteed to wear off in certain areas. Is retrobright an actual product and if so where do you get it from in the uk? I've heard if referred to lots but only seem to see people using peroxide and bleach powder which apparently is dangerous to your health if you don't know what you're doing.
-
I personally believe in "Paint over Metal" or Paint-on-Paint, but plastic being flexible will have the paint flaking off in no time. This is where the Retr0Brite option lays (I've got 3 4000D faceplates, 3 crappy ball-type mice, and a floppy drive faceplate taking in the sun as I type).
I have seen Professional Paint-on-plastic projects that look stunning, as long as you don't touch or use them. If you paint on plastic, then I'd use a tonne of clear coat to prevent flaking.
-
Is retrobright an actual product and if so where do you get it from in the uk?
You've gotta make it. I don't think it can be made a "commercial product" because the chemicals involved can't be shipped or somesuch, but on the bright side most of the instructions that come up in Google searches will give you measurements and sources for the products in UK stores. I had a terrible time trying to find the right stuff here in the States because most of the links were coming up with "just go down to your local blah-blah-blah store in London and buy such-and-such product that doesn't exist in the United States". Bah.
But once you've got the right stuff, it works great! ;)
-
I think I'd just have to hope that retrobright worked. I don't like the idea of putting a coat of paint on something if it's almost guarenteed to wear off in certain areas. Is retrobright an actual product and if so where do you get it from in the uk? I've heard if referred to lots but only seem to see people using peroxide and bleach powder which apparently is dangerous to your health if you don't know what you're doing.
I've used 15% hydrogen peroxide in the lab, and 40 Volume is only 12% and used on hair, BUT it still is one hell-of-an-oxidizing chemical; 30% H2O2 can be used to put an object into sub-orbital space. The added Bleaching powder provides a "blueing" source and may quicken the process, but mostly corrects the gray (or is it grey) that comes from the oxidation.
Is it safe? Well it will damage your skin and possibly blind you if it gets in your eyes, but so will a lot of chemicals. Wear non-latex gloves (latex is full of double bonds) and protective eye wear, then work away from children, pets, and rednecks.
-
You've gotta make it. I don't think it can be made a "commercial product" because the chemicals involved can't be shipped or somesuch, but on the bright side most of the instructions that come up in Google searches will give you measurements and sources for the products in UK stores. I had a terrible time trying to find the right stuff here in the States because most of the links were coming up with "just go down to your local blah-blah-blah store in London and buy such-and-such product that doesn't exist in the United States". Bah.
But once you've got the right stuff, it works great! ;)
If you use the 40 Volume Developing Creme (Cream) it works fine by itself, no mixing. You can find it in Beauty Supply store and order it online (cheapest) from Amazon. The Blueing powder is an option available in the same places. The mixing instructions are on the powder's label: 1 scoop to 2 ounces (60ml) of developer. Mixed, it will form a blue foam overtime as oxygen is released, but kept cool and in the dark lets the reaction slow down so it is usable for the rest of the day. It can work on a warm, sunny day is a few hours, but I like to start early in the morning and run a batch for 6 - 8 hours.
-
As we used to say, "Better living through Chemistry!."
-
Wear non-latex gloves (latex is full of double bonds)
What's up with latex gloves + hydrogen peroxide ..?
Eye protection is usually also made of plastic, so they might be in trouble too..
Is gloves made of Vinyl ok?
Where to "get" Retr0bright (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retr0bright)..
-
What's up with latex gloves + hydrogen peroxide ..?
Eye protection is usually also made of plastic, so they might be in trouble too..
Is gloves made of Vinyl ok?
Where to "get" Retr0bright (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retr0bright)..
..........^__the TAED is not needed.
Hydrogen Peroxide attacks double bonds donating an electron to form a single bond and possibly the destruction of that part of the molecule. Latex is as dam close to natural rubber (which is elastic because of the double bonds), just as colors are "colored" by the excitation of double bonds. The peroxide will eat through double bonds and you will do better with vinyl.
In the states, "Sally's Beauty Supply" or Amazon carry these and, for me, Amazon was cheaper.
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=169&pictureid=1108)
You will notice the Saran Wrap in the background; to prevent drying out of the goop, a good occlusive plastic wrap will make you less likely to have to replace the goo during the day.
This is from earlier today:
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=169&pictureid=1109)
-
Why not buy one of those (IKEA) storage boxes of polypropene (PP) and stuff it inside with the appropiate chemicals?
Less wraps etc.. ;)
-
What ever you use, it can not block the UV waves. Both the heat and the IV waves promote the reaction.
-
Great stuff here. Personally, I experimented with some horribly degraded A600s and that Krylon paint made for plastics. I believe I used almond (it's in another thread, IIRC) and it worked beautifully, even over severe yellowing.
-
I think you need more A4000s :P
..........^__the TAED is not needed.
Hydrogen Peroxide attacks double bonds donating an electron to form a single bond and possibly the destruction of that part of the molecule. Latex is as dam close to natural rubber (which is elastic because of the double bonds), just as colors are "colored" by the excitation of double bonds. The peroxide will eat through double bonds and you will do better with vinyl.
In the states, "Sally's Beauty Supply" or Amazon carry these and, for me, Amazon was cheaper.
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=169&pictureid=1108)
You will notice the Saran Wrap in the background; to prevent drying out of the goop, a good occlusive plastic wrap will make you less likely to have to replace the goo during the day.
This is from earlier today:
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=169&pictureid=1109)
-
speaking of restoration, what do you guys know about the original feet ? If I needed to make/buy them for instance ? does anyone have pics of OEM feet on big boxes ?
@ danbeaver, I see you have a few big boxes, are they your fave looks wise only vs wedges ? Never liked wedges after I saw the 1000, but I prefer the wedge/breadbox style on C= stuff.
-
The original feet? For replacements the 1" rubber or felt circles at Wally World work fine. Online you can get the square black rubber feet (Jameco, MCM Electronics). The A2000's used cork (never looked for them), the others are all black rubber. The smaller stuff used clear-ish rubber (Lowes). The A4000T used an adjustable stand -- only The Lord and the case maker (Enlight) have a clue. I use felt so it slides easier to get to.
Boxes vs wedges: I have some wedges, but just try to find stories of a moderately expanded A1200 (or minimally expanded A600) and they read like Frankenstein's Monster. Yes I like the C128D, but still have my 1983 C64..
-
Regarding Retrobrite.
I've heard you really need to clear coat after finishing the restoration. Otherwise the discoloration can come back and with a vengeance.
-
Ive heard horror stories about this retrobrighting. Some telling me ill die if I try, some telling me it'll go blotchy and now this telling me it'll come back with a vengeance. With all this in mind I've bought a swcond hand case in good condition on ebay and a brand new keyboard. That should do the trick. :)
Will post any pictures I get of the old monstrosity vs the new gleaming case. :)
-
The Retr0Brite process does not stop the ongoing UV reaction with the Bromine/Bromide and UV rays from sunlight exposure. A clear coat of polyurethane will block some of the UV rays and slow the process. Either way the discoloration does not get angry and attack you, so if you see it "come back and with a vengeance," please notify the police!
Blotchy? If you let is sit in pools or don't clean away any dirt first; I'd spread it out into a thin, even coat with a synthetic paint brush (it will dissolve a "natural" one). Oh, and if you die in the process, can you take pictures we can post for your memorial service?
-
To be honest, after cleaning the case today it's not so bad. They keyboard is a disgrace though. I will clean the keys up and try it on those. People recommend a dishwasher for keys of what I've seen. Then I'll cook up the retrobright and fling em in a bowl of it and mix them about. Does it definafely need sunlight to take as I live in the uk and it only ever rains. My best bet would be a garage or the garden shed in a bowl covered in clingfilm to keep them from the elements. I don't mind leaving them over night or applying a second coat.
.
-
Does it definafely need sunlight to take as I live in the uk and it only ever rains..
I did mine in the winter (no sunlight), just set everything up in my shower and hung a large UV-B light that I have for my snake about a foot over the mess and left it over night, LOL. ;)
-
It will work (very slowly) without actual sunlight, better with a cloudy day, and best in direct sunlight. Heck, take it to a tanning bed! They have those in the UK, don't they? Or do you just eat Vitamin D instead of breakfast?
Yes, it works slowly with a snake, Er black light. Groovy, Man!
-
We dont use sun beds. We're all just miserable. Might do the keyboard when I can be bothered. Looks like an old c64 keyboard. Haha.
-
We dont use sun beds. We're all just miserable. Might do the keyboard when I can be bothered. Looks like an old c64 keyboard. Haha.
I see, that's why you have Hobbits in the UK, from the rickets (lack of Vitamin D)!
-
Heres some pics of the dirty girl. Electrician tape removed.
-
I guess in the UK you must use spray on tans. That way you ruin all of your clothes and when it wears off you look like you vitiligo.
Stole that line from YouTube.
-
Regarding Retrobrite.
I've heard you really need to clear coat after finishing the restoration. Otherwise the discoloration can come back and with a vengeance.
I read Merlin's take on that clear coat with UV uptake, and that is even better than the idea I had of just clear coating it. Actually surprised that post "retr0brite" isn't a sticky like "retr0bright".
-
From my researching so far this is my reply to your specific concerns.
1. You won't die, some people are nervous around chemistry, just like people that are afraid to fly. You just have to use common sense. From what I read, it can be possible to overheat the solution and cause it to work much faster than intended. When it works much faster, and you don't take it out soon enough it can cause "blooming" (whitish discolored areas)
2. See "blooming" above. If you leave it in too long, make it stronger than recommended, or use 700 UV lamps, put the lamps way to close thereby overheating the solution (this also depends on the surrounding temp of your enviornment).
3. It does come back, and I am sure that is indeed angry and wanting some vengeance indeed. Using a clearcoat stops this in 2 ways:
Discoloration can't come back because it can't get a ride from oxygen. Discoloration doesen't have a car and is always mooching rides off oxygen and UV to go to the comic book store and over to your house to get revenge. Clearcoating puts up one huge detour / road closed sign and Oxygen gets lost (no GPS). The UV inhibitor keeps UV from seeing "where discoloration be at", thereby preventing UV and discoloration from going in and "Jackin' yo Bromine bro'".
No vengeance and no jackin' means discoloration is stuck at home in mom's basement being bored. ;)
Ive heard horror stories about this retrobrighting. Some telling me ill die if I try, some telling me it'll go blotchy and now this telling me it'll come back with a vengeance. With all this in mind I've bought a swcond hand case in good condition on ebay and a brand new keyboard. That should do the trick. :)
Will post any pictures I get of the old monstrosity vs the new gleaming case. :)
-
You should have made that lazy ass snake hold it instead of hanging it up there. The snake could of at least offered to help...just sayin'
I did mine in the winter (no sunlight), just set everything up in my shower and hung a large UV-B light that I have for my snake about a foot over the mess and left it over night, LOL. ;)
-
We dont use sun beds. We're all just miserable. Might do the keyboard when I can be bothered. Looks like an old c64 keyboard. Haha.
We have a new commercial over here as of last night that says something about something and one of the lines is :whiter than an englishman." It then goes on to show a bunch of pasty white guys with sunburned forearms :D
That said, skin cancer = bad anyhow, better to be pasty.
-
I see, that's why you have Hobbits in the UK, from the rickets (lack of Vitamin D)!
They keep limes in their filthy pocketsizz for just such an emergency.
-
What kind of clearcoat is recommended?
-
They keep limes in their filthy pocketsizz for just such an emergency.
That is for Vitamin C a lack of which causes Scurvy. A condition that forces you to live in Hull.
-
What kind of clearcoat is recommended?
Recommended? I use Krylon's. I can't recommend it, but its what I use. I guess I'll have to go back and read a sticky thread too.
-
LOL, you know me, always getting my 18th century diseases mixed up...
That is for Vitamin C a lack of which causes Scurvy. A condition that forces you to live in Hull.
-
LOL, you know me, always getting my 18th century diseases mixed up...
I8th century? Hardly, quite common where there is rampant starvation -- Hollywood starlets for example, and Sub-Saharian Africa.
But back to Amigas.
-
Yeah, and we still have TB and cholera....I wasn't being technical :P I see I shall have to be more technical with you sir.. :D
I8th century? Hardly, quite common where there is rampant starvation -- Hollywood starlets for example, and Sub-Saharian Africa.
But back to Amigas.
-
Yeah, and we still have TB and cholera....I wasn't being technical :P I see I shall have to be more technical with you sir.. :D
Maybe TB, as it loves cool wet climates, but NOT Cholera! Not in Minnesota! Beer consumption prevents cholera, and I recall some mighty cheap beer prices 25 cents a bottle) and a lot of consumption around Northfield, at least. You point out someone with Cholera in MN, and I'll show foreigner to those lands.
-
I did not mean US personally...you in MN also ?
-
I did not mean US personally...you in MN also ?
No, but visited friends at Carleton in college, spending several weeks in winter and a month in the summer.
-
I personally believe in "Paint over Metal" or Paint-on-Paint, but plastic being flexible will have the paint flaking off in no time.
Metal is also flexible - even elastic to a certain degree.
I have seen Professional Paint-on-plastic projects that look stunning, as long as you don't touch or use them. If you paint on plastic, then I'd use a tonne of clear coat to prevent flaking.
Have you ever thought of laminating it with glossy colour foil - like they did it with cars recently?
Oracal Car Wrapping Cast (http://www.smp-sign-systems.com/shop-fuer-werbetechnik-und-medienproduktion/car-wrapping-cast.html?gclid=COLrmrPcrrcCFQm33godxyEAkQ)
-
Metal is also flexible - even elastic to a certain degree.
Have you ever thought of laminating it with glossy colour foil - like they did it with cars recently?
Oracal Car Wrapping Cast (http://www.smp-sign-systems.com/shop-fuer-werbetechnik-und-medienproduktion/car-wrapping-cast.html?gclid=COLrmrPcrrcCFQm33godxyEAkQ)
Flexible? It exists is a liquid (Mercury at room temperature) and a gaseous state as well. But Paint, for the most part flexes with the metal, until the metal bends permanently and the plastic cracks. The clear PVC sounds great for cars (like my Evo X) but might be a wee bit overkill for an indoor computer. It is like having the body shop painting stuff; it looks great, but they do that to cars for a reason.
"Sometimes 'more' isn't better, it is just 'more'."
-
How do you guys feel about repainting all or part of a classic? What if "retr0bright" doesn't do the trick on a particular area/unit ?
For me, if I was restoring a unit for my personal use, I'd do the lids, chassis...but never the bezel, or never where the metallic stickers (or other such stickers are. I prefer not to paint over a classic, but if restoring for authentic looks, I am sure it's had to have been done.
No reason other than general chit chat.:pint:
I painted an A500 that was horribly yellowed about 10 years ago before Retrobrite was around and it came out great. The trick is to take your time and add 2 good coats of plastic paint and make sure to remove all labels/stickers before hand.
-
Well I'm glad to hear that you got good results. Would you share the brand of paint?
-
Also, any pics of said painted Amiga?
-
As far as the feet questiongoes, I am mulling doing a 2000 all commodore and as close to 100 percent period as I can get one, you know like a "stock" resto
on cars.
While the C= stuff had loads of aftermarket stuff, kind of neat to see an all C= machine (historical context) flaws and all.
The original feet? For replacements the 1" rubber or felt circles at Wally World work fine. Online you can get the square black rubber feet (Jameco, MCM Electronics). The A2000's used cork (never looked for them), the others are all black rubber. The smaller stuff used clear-ish rubber (Lowes). The A4000T used an adjustable stand -- only The Lord and the case maker (Enlight) have a clue. I use felt so it slides easier to get to.
Boxes vs wedges: I have some wedges, but just try to find stories of a moderately expanded A1200 (or minimally expanded A600) and they read like Frankenstein's Monster. Yes I like the C128D, but still have my 1983 C64..
-
Not many folks look at the bottom, but 3/4 inch circular cork pads can be found at Ace Hardware online. In store my local Ace has a good selection of M3 and M4 (case) screws and nuts -- something Lowes lacks.
-
I prefer ACE myself they have cool one off items !