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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: polyp2000 on May 10, 2013, 04:37:22 PM

Title: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: polyp2000 on May 10, 2013, 04:37:22 PM
First I hear about this - and due to a one off tweet by Jeri Ellsworth its now cancelled. Way to go Jeri!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/10/ellsworth_tweet_prompts_bread_bin_cancellation/

N...
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: trekiej on May 10, 2013, 05:24:15 PM
Sorry to hear it.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: spirantho on May 10, 2013, 05:35:47 PM
It seems like he didn't really know what he was doing anyway. Better that it gets cancelled now than when he's squandered $150,000.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Matt_H on May 10, 2013, 10:49:06 PM
He would have been better off spending the money to buy the C64x case and keyboard molds from Barry Altman's estate and then hiring Jeri to do a production run of the C64-DTV motherboard, which had solder pads for all the important C64 ports on it. No engineering required, just business.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Iggy on May 10, 2013, 11:16:04 PM
Since Jeri's C-One never came close to its goal, it seems unsettling that our little "nerd girl" would have the nerve to post something like this.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: commodorejohn on May 11, 2013, 12:17:02 AM
Quote from: Iggy;734464
Since Jeri's C-One never came close to its goal, it seems unsettling that our little "nerd girl" would have the nerve to post something like this.
It doesn't take a business tycoon to point out that just picking a number out of thin air and expecting a successful project to materialize around the money is ridiculous, and Jeri certainly knows enough about the subject.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: CritAnime on May 11, 2013, 01:08:17 AM
Enthusiasm can bring out the best and worst in us. It was an obviously flawed project from the start. But then again most modern projects that carry the Commodore name tend to be flawed in some manner.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Duce on May 11, 2013, 01:16:03 AM
She could and should have handled it in a better way.  As John said, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that pulling a $150,000 number out of ones behind and asking for crowdfunding is laughable at best and suspect at worst.   I do think Ellsworth would have been better off by pointing out the flaws to his logic in a more private fashion that may have brought him into the reality zone and perhaps the project would have continued.  

Twitter makes people vengeful and ugly, it's far much easier to just lambaste someone rather than engage them with realistic and helpful conversation.  I expected better than a public naming and shaming out of Ellsworth, tbh.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: magnetic on May 11, 2013, 01:22:19 AM
Quote from: Matt_H;734460
He would have been better off spending the money to buy the C64x case and keyboard molds from Barry Altman's estate and then hiring Jeri to do a production run of the C64-DTV motherboard, which had solder pads for all the important C64 ports on it. No engineering required, just business.



What are you talking about? I'm sure Jeri doesnt have the rights to do any "production run" of C64-DTV. Its owned by a company lock stock and barell. She actually got majorly screwed on the deal from what I heard...
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: CritAnime on May 11, 2013, 01:23:10 AM
If you follow some of the converstations form it She isn't exactly remorseful about the acustation.
 
(Had to post from mobile as twitter is banned on works computers)
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeriellsworth
 
@magnetic
 
She is probably acustomed to been shafted considering she has recently been shafted by Valve too.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Iggy on May 11, 2013, 01:35:28 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;734473
It doesn't take a business tycoon to point out that just picking a number out of thin air and expecting a successful project to materialize around the money is ridiculous, and Jeri certainly knows enough about the subject.


By "Jeri certainly knows enough about the subject. ", do you mean that she knows about "picking a number out of thin air and expecting a successful project to materialize".
Because, then, we would be in agreement.
As I mentioned before, the sky high goals for the C-One were enough to put me off Jeri's pet projects. It seemed right from the start that there would be no way with limited resources to realize those goals.
Ditto with the Natami.
So Jeri can take a verbal dump on someone elses relatively modest plan, but no one is supposed to remind her that her own plans didn't pan out?

Get real. I've been around Amigans too long to not know that when you shoot for the sky, you invariably crash and burn.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: commodorejohn on May 11, 2013, 01:52:55 AM
I'm not trying to say Ellsworth shouldn't have handled it better, or that she hasn't had her own issues with projects not panning out (though...I'll admit I'm not up on the full details of the C-One, but according to Wikipedia it actually did sell a couple hundred units, and she certainly wasn't asking for crowd-funding.) But as cool as I find the idea of crowd-funding, you need to actually be able to follow through, and that doesn't happen through the sheer power of wishing and throwing money at anything that comes up.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: CritAnime on May 11, 2013, 03:27:51 AM
Most crowd funding ventures, even if it could be followed up on, end in faliure. The only reason it went on Idegogo is because it is more lax than say Kickstarter on what is allowed to be posted. Pretty sure you need some form of actual working prototype and more solid buisness plan than just "oh it might work" for it to get on kickstarter.
 
Now reading some of the comments people made about this project a lot mentioned the Pi. I know from experience that getting Vice to run on a Pi is a royal pain in the backside. But it would have made a good viable option. But would have still needed a considerable investment.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Argo on May 11, 2013, 04:15:03 AM
Quote from: Matt_H;734460
He would have been better off spending the money to buy the C64x case and keyboard molds from Barry Altman's estate and then hiring Jeri to do a production run of the C64-DTV motherboard, which had solder pads for all the important C64 ports on it. No engineering required, just business.


And in seconds you just came up with a possible working business plan that this guy had not even bothered to think of even one, much less research costs.
I've seen this alot on Kickstarter. Awesome idea, overflowing enthusiasm for project, no clue where to start much less the skills, Give me money!
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: CritAnime on May 11, 2013, 04:23:20 AM
Jeri in one of her tweets admits she is sitting on a stock of the SOC's used for the dtv.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Kesa on May 11, 2013, 05:03:42 AM
Out of curiosity how much money did they actually raise? And do you guys think a C64 project would be able to get better funding than an Amiga based project?
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: SysAdmin on May 11, 2013, 05:09:13 AM
Quote from: Kesa;734506
Out of curiosity how much money did they actually raise? And do you guys think a C64 project would be able to get better funding than an Amiga based project?


I think it only raised $150.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: CritAnime on May 11, 2013, 05:13:55 AM
Two backers of $75 so yeah $150. Thing is he would have had to pay the listing fee regardless. And I beleive on a fixed sum capaign it's 9% of the total earned before either failure to raise the amount or cancelation. Which comes to $13.50 if my maths is right. So he should think himself lucky because that could have been a lot worse.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Astral on May 11, 2013, 06:50:15 AM
Quote from: polyp2000;734407
First I hear about this - and due to a one off tweet by Jeri Ellsworth its now cancelled. Way to go Jeri!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/10/ellsworth_tweet_prompts_bread_bin_cancellation/

N...


I think a bit of a re-think on that opinion wouldn't go astray.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: omnicron10 on May 11, 2013, 07:43:30 AM
I actually owned a C-one, DTV and now a Chameleon.  The Jeri C-one core was never complete enough to run much software.  The DTV core, although very nice was never a good replacement for a real 64.  It really was its own platform with some c64 compatibility. Until the FPGA64 core came out by Peter Wendrich that ran on the C-one there was almost NOTHING to run on the c-one that ran c64 software decently.  The FPGA64 core later was turned into the Turbo Chameleon cartridge which runs with a C64 and in a standalone mode.  At this point, it is the closest we have to a C64 clone that really is getting all the little things right that make it hard to get high compatibility!  Each release is getting better and better and it has taken YEARS to get that far.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Leffmann on May 11, 2013, 07:49:49 AM
She comes across as insensitive and disrespectful, regardless of whether this guy was out of his league or not. I certainly lost any respect I had for her.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Borut on May 11, 2013, 08:52:36 AM
Didn´t Jerry also screw Jens in the C-One project somehow - I think I have read something like that times ago?
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: magnetic on May 11, 2013, 09:19:55 AM
borut

You have it backwards from what i heard.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: rewlako on May 11, 2013, 01:06:52 PM
Both Dave Jones and Jeri Ellsworth are highly skilled and experienced when it comes to development and production of new harware.

They, and all the others mocking the project had good reason to laugh.  It was hopeless from birth.

If you think project breadbin should have gotten a chance, then you don't know what you are talking about.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Akiko on May 11, 2013, 01:30:01 PM
Quote from: Borut;734519
Didn´t Jerry also screw Jens in the C-One project somehow - I think I have read something like that times ago?


I remember Jens having some pretty unkind words to say in public about Jeri Ellsworth, anyone remember the source of that?


Quote from: magnetic;734521
borut

You have it backwards from what i heard.


From memory those accusations come from Jens himself.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: kolla on May 11, 2013, 01:46:12 PM
Gossip gossip gossip... *yawn*
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Linde on May 11, 2013, 04:51:40 PM
So did anyone seriously think this project would really be happening? For $150000? Automatic detection of PAL/NTSC software? Close to 100% compatibility by hiring "a firm to do the electronics"? Who would design the specs?

It truly is a scam in that he pulled all the numbers out of his ass, whether he did it knowingly or out of ignorance. To say that he could produce such a computer and sell it for $75 is an outright lie, and he deserves no respect.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: ZeBeeDee on May 11, 2013, 05:13:35 PM
http://www.gulli.com/news/9121-retrocomputing-trouble-um-den-c-one-und-c64-dtv-2006-08-17 (http://www.gulli.com/news/9121-retrocomputing-trouble-um-den-c-one-und-c64-dtv-2006-08-17)

Quote from: Borut;734519
Didn´t Jerry also screw Jens in the C-One project somehow - I think I have read something like that times ago?
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: CritAnime on May 11, 2013, 06:08:13 PM
Quote from: Linde;734553
So did anyone seriously think this project would really be happening? For $150000? Automatic detection of PAL/NTSC software? Close to 100% compatibility by hiring "a firm to do the electronics"? Who would design the specs?

It truly is a scam in that he pulled all the numbers out of his ass, whether he did it knowingly or out of ignorance. To say that he could produce such a computer and sell it for $75 is an outright lie, and he deserves no respect.

The only thing he is guilty of is stupidity and naivety. Pretty sure people can make mistakes especially where enthusiasm and blind devotion are involved. If it was a scam he would have at least put a bit more effort into the pitch.
Title: Re: How was this allowed to happen?
Post by: Borut on May 11, 2013, 10:13:08 PM
Quote from: ZeBeeDee;734554
http://www.gulli.com/news/9121-retrocomputing-trouble-um-den-c-one-und-c64-dtv-2006-08-17 (http://www.gulli.com/news/9121-retrocomputing-trouble-um-den-c-one-und-c64-dtv-2006-08-17)


THX - nice to know that I remember some things right. I thought he wrote it also in an thread on a1k.org