Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: AmigaClassicRule on May 10, 2013, 05:19:42 AM
-
Hey guys,
I am wondering if I get an AROS machine would I be getting the same experience as I would be getting with AmigaOS 4.1? Can you say that AROS is AmigaOS 4.1 for x86? Would I get the same Amiga experience as well? The problem I have is I have the latest most modern motherboard and x86 I could imagine as such it is not compatible with AROS in any shape or regard. The other problem I have...is installing AROS natively to the HD. I have always had bad experience with that...that and the fact the AROS cannot support more than 128 GB of HD space so if I get a 1 TB HD I am in big trouble. What do you guys suggest here?
Thanks in advance.
-
I believe they are different (worlds apart) but do not know how explain it.
Both have their ups and downs.
-
Two entirely different things. Not even comparable, IMO - outside of the "Amiga-like" experience they share.
I've never had luck with AROS. Never, ever. I have no old machines, only modern, bleeding edge technology ones and have never had a stable AROS experience with them. Last time I installed AROS it thrashed a hard disk so badly I couldn't even fix it with Spinrite. :( Those that do/can run AROS enjoy it, though.
AmigaOS requires specific hardware (A1, SAM boards, X1000, or PPC powered legacy machines) that is far more costly than what AROS requires, though. I have a SAM 440ep and the machine is damned near bulletproof and is a lot of fun to use.
-
Two entirely different things. Not even comparable, IMO - outside of the "Amiga-like" experience they share.
I've never had luck with AROS. Never, ever. I have no old machines, only modern, bleeding edge technology ones and have never had a stable AROS experience with them. Last time I installed AROS it thrashed a hard disk so badly I couldn't even fix it with Spinrite. :( Those that do/can run AROS enjoy it, though.
AmigaOS requires specific hardware (A1, SAM boards, X1000, or PPC powered legacy machines) that is far more costly than what AROS requires, though. I have a SAM 440ep and the machine is damned near bulletproof and is a lot of fun to use.
But Duce would you consider the SAM 440ep, A1, X1000, etc the same experience as owning the Amiga classic? Would you consider it an Amiga, Amiga system or would you considered it a PPC machine that have OS 4.1 like AROS is installed in x86?
-
I like AROS. It's very impressive, and open source, and really nice, and the price is unbeatable....
... but it doesn't feel like the Amiga to me, and its API is a lot closer to OS3 than OS4, but that will only affect you if you code. Plus with an AmigaOS 4 machine you know it's not going to have compatibility problems.
Also I don't think AROS emulates a 68k for OS3 apps yet, does it? JanusUAE is great, but not suitable for simple commandline tools and stuff.
AmigaOS 4 feels like home. 'nuff said.
-
I like AROS. It's very impressive, and open source, and really nice, and the price is unbeatable....
... but it doesn't feel like the Amiga to me, and its API is a lot closer to OS3 than OS4, but that will only affect you if you code. Plus with an AmigaOS 4 machine you know it's not going to have compatibility problems.
Interesting, feels like Amiga to me.
Also I don't think AROS emulates a 68k for OS3 apps yet, does it? JanusUAE is great, but not suitable for simple commandline tools and stuff.
AmigaOS 4 feels like home. 'nuff said.
Seamless UAE (with JIT) has been integrated since what, 2012 or was it 2011? OS4 has it's share of issues (extremely expensive hardware for one), but if he is interested in AROS, he should go download (for free no less) a live ISO from http://icarosdesktop.org/ and give it a spin and see for himself if he likes it or not. Yes, there is "limited" number of video (mostly nVidia) accelerated drivers and NIC drivers, but the hardware is common and dirt cheap. He can even run it in hosted if he wants. There is no reason for him not to go download the Icaros ISO and give it a try and see for himself if it feels like an Amiga.
Think there is still AROS hardware being sold if he has to have a brand new machine that has AROS drivers for all of it's onboard hardware.
-
I like AROS. It's very impressive, and open source, and really nice, and the price is unbeatable....
... but it doesn't feel like the Amiga to me,
maybe until you run it on an actual amiga, where it feels more amiga than running os4 on an accelerator board i can assure you.
and its API is a lot closer to OS3 than OS4, but that will only affect you if you code.
which is good since it is a legacy standard everybody agrees upon in amiga world and this ensures compatibility and portability of software that runs upon, providing a good base for community cooperation.
Plus with an AmigaOS 4 machine you know it's not going to have compatibility problems.
what compatibility problems? hardware support? as lt looks like most if not all of os4 machines have incomplete hardware support. in case of x1k half of the hardware is not yet supported. in other cases devices lack dma, or the like, and beyond that you have no choice, you must stick with this unsupported hardware. in case of aros you may be lucky or not, but there are so many choices and as a fallback you can always run it hosted. this situation may even improve soon.
Also I don't think AROS emulates a 68k for OS3 apps yet, does it? JanusUAE is great, but not suitable for simple commandline tools and stuff.
AmigaOS 4 feels like home. 'nuff said.
much better. on amiga aros actually runs native amiga 1.x-3.x apps without any emulation. try *this* on os4;)
-
All three NG OS' have a lot of specific difference.
To me all three feel very Amiga-like.
And the poster that said AROS felt the most like 3.1 was dead on (but is that necessarily a good thing).
I must admit, thought I can see the potential of AROS, I'd still prefer the PPC variants.
Since Hyperion has the right to include all of 3.1 in 4.1 (and beyond) compatibility may be better with their product.
But my own choice (which i won't belabor) is the most polished and the better performing of the two. Plus Ambient just feels better to me than any other interface.
I don't miss Workbench, and Scalos was interesting but not quite what I wanted, so I'm glad I have ambient.
-
I've never had luck with AROS. Never, ever. I have no old machines, only modern, bleeding edge technology ones and have never had a stable AROS experience with them.
User maybe? I've used AROS on a 12 Core Opteron with 32 Gigs of ram that was released roughly 3 months before I tried AROS on it.
-
I've never been able to understand why people complain about lack of hardware support with AROS. It supports more hardware than both MorphOS and OS4, especially OS4.
-
I am running lots of 68k applications and games on AROS, I mix native AROS and 68k libraries, have added original AREXX and installer and so on and this is both running on emulation and native on classic hardware without PPC addon. Try that with AmigaOS or MorphOS :-). I use AROS 68k of course. So for every purpose you can choose the right version. Of course it is not possible to mix f.e. X86 and 68k but the price of it to stick with old hardware is way too much in my view.
-
I've never been able to understand why people complain about lack of hardware support with AROS. It supports more hardware than both MorphOS and OS4, especially OS4.
Basically the problem is that you have to buy second hand hardware, and then it'll probably work. People tend to assume that because it runs on a PC, that it'll run on a recent PC - but that's usually not the case.
@dammy
Running a whole sandbox of UAE to just run a simple commandline app isn't what people want. They want it to run in the shell. And what about if you want to run a program like "Diskinfo" to get the disk parameters? That wouldn't work well from an emulated environment.
I don't think even the JanusUAE authors would say that running UAE for a command-line app is ideal.
When I say that AmigaOS 4 feels more like an Amiga, you have to remember that "feels like" is completely subjective. For many others, AROS feels more like an Amiga, for others MOS feels like an Amiga.
@wawrzon
AROS 68k is pretty awesome work. :)
Only having the API from an old version of AmigaOS from 1994 is not a good thing though - and in fact AROS has its own API. The developer should be able to use the lowest common denominator, but each of the three Amigalikes have their own APIs already. I too wish they were standardised but that's not going to happen.
I think this is going to turn into a red vs. er... what colour is AROS again? Anyway, I can get see it getting all argumenty so I'll stop now.
Suffice to say:
AmigaOS 4 feels more like an Amiga to me, and as a developer has advantages for me, but your mileage may vary!
-
We managed to remove a difference in the implementation of CybergraphX just a few days ago and that is now official part. If more would test and report what is missing/should change it would help a lot.
-
just some news...
AROS 68k now officially support ATA on A1200/4000, I am working on integration of Magellan now and thanks to Terminills will do testing printing with Gutenprint this weekend. So a lot of fun :-).
-
Basically the problem is that you have to buy second hand hardware, and then it'll probably work. People tend to assume that because it runs on a PC, that it'll run on a recent PC - but that's usually not the case.
what? im not interested enough in x86 to actually run aros on it, but last time i tried a livecd on my i7 it was working. i really cant imagine, what do you base your claims upon..
Only having the API from an old version of AmigaOS from 1994 is not a good thing though - and in fact AROS has its own API.
of course it extends upon 3.1 api, but you can still stick with it if you want. after all, it wasnt me who stated, aros is just 3.1 compliant.
-
what? im not interested enough in x86 to actually run aros on it, but last time i tried a livecd on my i7 it was working. i really cant imagine, what do you base your claims upon..
Experience, and http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Platforms/x86_support ...
If you have an i7 system that boots AROS with native accelerated graphics, full sound, full SATA then you were very lucky indeed! Making drivers for AROS is an incredibly difficult process, so there's a latency between release of hardware and drivers emerging; hence most hardware you can get that's new isn't natively supported by AROS.
Luckily you can run it hosted, but that's not ideal.
-
Hey guys,
I am wondering if I get an AROS machine would I be getting the same experience as I would be getting with AmigaOS 4.1? Can you say that AROS is AmigaOS 4.1 for x86? Would I get the same Amiga experience as well? The problem I have is I have the latest most modern motherboard and x86 I could imagine as such it is not compatible with AROS in any shape or regard. The other problem I have...is installing AROS natively to the HD. I have always had bad experience with that...that and the fact the AROS cannot support more than 128 GB of HD space so if I get a 1 TB HD I am in big trouble. What do you guys suggest here?
Thanks in advance.
Well, go for it. One of the real big advanatges of AROS is that it is free. Download and play with it. I think AROS has quite some potential, albeit at current development state I much, much, much prefer MorphOS (way more polished, stable and has much more usable software).
-
Basically the problem is that you have to buy second hand hardware, and then it'll probably work. People tend to assume that because it runs on a PC, that it'll run on a recent PC - but that's usually not the case.
That's not even close to being true.
If you said "outdated hardware" you might be closer but MorphOS and OS4 only run on even more outdated hardware.
Yet AROS runs on top of the line Intel and AMD CPU's both 32bit and 64bit, also various 680x0 ARM and PPC CPU's, has full hardware accelerated 2D and 3D graphics on the best hardware money can buy, full USB2.0 support, proper DMA, runs hosted on top of other Operating Systems as varied as Android, BSD, Linux and OSX without depending on emulation, runs natively on genuine real Amiga hardware, I could go on forever.
I love my MorphOS boxes as much as anyone (1 Pegasos, 2 PowerMacs and a PowerBook on its way for my birthday present) and you'll have to prize my real Amigas from my cold dead hands (I even used to run OS4 on a BPPC but it wasn't a pleasant experience but I'd gladly run it on a faster hardware should it ever be ported to something that isn't overpriced junk) but I don't live in cloud cuckoo land, its blatantly obvious that AROS supports far more hardware than the Amiga OS or MorphOS OS4 do combined.
It is also the only realistic future for the platform in the long term due to its Free and Open Source nature. When the MOS Team get bored/die of old age and Hyperion run out of money, the AROS code will still be out there on the interwebs for anyone who wants to put it on new hardware.
-
I wonder if someone can help me? I've recently tried and failed to install AROS Icaros Desktop and I haven't even got a copy of Aeros yet, because the server was being rebuilt or something like that. It's now scheduled to download within the next 2 hours.
I prefer the idea of Aeros because my original plan in 1999 was to run Linux to continue the same attitude as the Amiga, but then I found that Linux looked and felt too much like Windows, no matter which distro I used.
My laptop is a Toshiba Satellite C660D, with an AMD E-350 CPU (64bit, dual core 1.6Ghz), 2Gb RAM ("1.6Gb usable"?!), and a 320Gb hard drive. It came with Windoze 7 Home Premium. After my first failure to install AROS Icaros Desktop, I installed Ubuntu Linux 12.10, but had to give it only half the drive because it didn't tell me which partition was for Linux!
Whenever I try to install AROS Icaros Desktop, first of all under Windoze I click on a file I think is called called Win32-start.bat, which runs AROS Icaros Desktop under Qemu, but an error comes up in a console (i.e. MS-DOS) window saying that the accelerator program has failed. I clicked on the OWB browser icon, which then took 6 minutes to start up! When I click on the icon to install AROS, it takes over an hour no matter which options I select. I'm not able to select and save a keyboard layout or locale settings, then I just have to click on Cancel to get out of them. I read various messages for most of the time saying that AROS is copying and installing files, after being told that I've already set up AROS partitions. I have no idea where these partitions are. Finally, I get a message saying that AROS is running a post installation script, after a warning that it will seem like the installer has frozen. This never ends, or if it does I don't know how many hours I'm supposed to wait. I then cancel, or close the whole AROS Icaros Desktop Qemu window, then reboot to find that there's no sign of AROS at all!
Of course, I've had a warning that AROS has no guarantee that it won't corrupt data on its own or all partitions on my hard drive. How serious should I take this?
I've seen AmigaOS 4.1 IRL and I'm not very impressed, because most of the time people seem to use it for Internet access instead of for creating something. AmigaOS 4.1 Kickstart starts to boot with a text only screen and then an X shaped pointer appears, meaning there's a Linux/UNIX X Windows server. Of course, the Amiga OS/Workbench/AmigaDOS is descended from UNIX via Tripos, and Commodore announced that they were basing a new Amiga OS around Linux, so there's no reason it shouldn't use X Windows. Unfortunately, it demands specific custom hardware, or upgraded classic hardware in order to run. AFAIK there's no reason it couldn't run on a Power PC Mac, or a Power PC games console (e.g. PS3, XBox 360, or Wii), but UBoot checks for specific hardware to make people buy an expensive computer to run it on.
-
I am more 68k than X86 but perhaps I can give some tips. Qemu is very slow so I would recommend a virtual machine instead (if you do not want to install it native, do not have the hardware or wants to risk it). Download f.e. VMWare and install it. Download Icaros ISO and burn it on DVD. Then put in the ISO and start VMWare and install it in VMWare. That is the safe way to test it (and much faster than QEmu)
-
AmigaOS 4.1 Kickstart starts to boot with a text only screen and then an X shaped pointer appears, meaning there's a Linux/UNIX X Windows server.
There's no X in AmigaOS.... I'm not sure what you were seeing but it wasn't X.
AmigaOS 4 is AmigaOS, not a UNIX of any kind (same as AROS)
-
You need to burn the Icaros image to a disc or USB drive then boot your laptop from it.
You've been running it in an interpreted PC emulator on top of Windows that's why it was so slow. If you want to run it on Windows at near native speed you need to install virtual box or buy VMware/Parallels.
-
Yes, running it under a virtual box is not representative of AROS. You need to run it native as it's a much nicer experience (and blazingly quick on most x86 CPUs)
-
There's no X in AmigaOS.... I'm not sure what you were seeing but it wasn't X.
AmigaOS 4 is AmigaOS, not a UNIX of any kind (same as AROS)
The name of it is AmiCygnix. It's specially created for AmigaOS, but is an X Windows server. Android is based on Linux, but without an X Windows server.
To sum up, the original Amiga idea was UNIX + Atari 8 bit + fun & games + 16/32 bit hardware = Amiga.
-
You need to burn the Icaros image to a disc or USB drive then boot your laptop from it.
You've been running it in an interpreted PC emulator on top of Windows that's why it was so slow. If you want to run it on Windows at near native speed you need to install virtual box or buy VMware/Parallels.
I downloaded it, burnt it onto DVD, then tried to boot from it, but it wouldn't boot. I then booted into Windows and clicked on the DVD icon, but it only wanted to try and burn the image onto another DVD or CD. I found some files under a directory called Live. There was a README file and two BAT files for 32bit and 64bit versions of Windoze. Only clicking on the 32bit BAT files gets the DVD to start up AROS Icaros Desktop.
-
Install a virtual machine, put in DVD and then boot the CD in the virtual machine and install it there
-
The name of it is AmiCygnix. It's specially created for AmigaOS, but is an X Windows server. Android is based on Linux, but without an X Windows server.
To sum up, the original Amiga idea was UNIX + Atari 8 bit + fun & games + 16/32 bit hardware = Amiga.
AmiCygnix is just an X server for AmigaOS - in the same way as Cygwin runs under Windows, so AmiCygnix runs under AmigaOS.
You can run AmigaOS perfectly without going anywhere near Unix compatibility - it's just a program written by someone.
-
the Amiga OS/Workbench/AmigaDOS is descended from UNIX
No it wasn't.
To sum up, the original Amiga idea was UNIX + Atari 8 bit + fun & games + 16/32 bit hardware = Amiga.
No it wasn't.
-
I downloaded it, burnt it onto DVD, then tried to boot from it, but it wouldn't boot.
Not really giving us much to go on are you?
I suggest you create an account at http://aros-exec.org and make a post with a tad more detail than "it no workee" if you want people to actually be able to help you.
-
AEROS r4 will be available in last quarter of 2013 for ARM, PPC and x86.
AEROS r4 itself comes with no AROS except the 68k Version. LX68k isn't working yet as it should but in "theory" you can run Linux apps from the emulated 68k environment.
AEROS r4 will also come with a boot loader which allows to install "native" AROS distributions, they will be automatically added to the Boot loader.
BIOS->AEROS->Bootloader->AROS/AmigaOS/LINUX.
You can also install some PPC OS on top of it, while in fact using a x86 machine.
Personally i am checking the possibility of an ARES PPC with MOS/AmigaOS and AROS. Based around the SAM460ex.
The ARM version is working on an 13.3 inch MW8550 Notebook available for less than 170€ or less than 80€ if ordered as 1K batch.
-
I know I'll get flamed for saying it but I've used Aros, OS4 and MorphOS and of the 3, I have to say that Aros and MorphOS were superior in many ways compared to OS4. The comments about Aros requiring you to use outdated or second-hand hardware are total BS. Aros has some very narrow hardware requirements especially when it comes to wireless networks cards but I installed it on a Dell laptop with an nVidia GPU and have been very pleased with it. The only changes I had to make in terms of hardware was to replace the wireless card with an Aros-supported card. Aros also runs circles around OS4 and MorphOS just due to the fact that it takes advantage of modern x86-64 processors. If I had to rank the 3 OS's in terms of usability and performance, I'd rate Aros at the top, followed by MorphOS and lastly OS4.
-
I know I'll get flamed for saying it but I've used Aros, OS4 and MorphOS and of the 3, I have to say that Aros and MorphOS were superior in many ways compared to OS4. The comments about Aros requiring you to use outdated or second-hand hardware are total BS. Aros has some very narrow hardware requirements especially when it comes to wireless networks cards
How did I forget, how many wireless cards does OS4 support exactly? ;)
but I installed it on a Dell laptop with an nVidia GPU and have been very pleased with it. The only changes I had to make in terms of hardware was to replace the wireless card with an Aros-supported card. Aros also runs circles around OS4 and MorphOS just due to the fact that it takes advantage of modern x86-64 processors. If I had to rank the 3 OS's in terms of usability and performance, I'd rate Aros at the top, followed by MorphOS and lastly OS4.
MorphOS is much more polished than AROS, but it's not far behind these days. OS4 isn't much better than a fully tweaked Amiga OS 3.9 install.
-
Same Middle Earth different Character.
-
Same Middle Earth different Character.
I think I opened a can of worms that is now not possible to close :insane: I think I can just conclude that in the end it is really a matter of preference. I will take that as a final answer to my original post question.
-
Making drivers for AROS is an incredibly difficult process
Where do you get this crap from? It's no more difficult than writing drivers for the Amiga OS, MorphOS or OS4.
so there's a latency between release of hardware and drivers emerging; hence most hardware you can get that's new isn't natively supported by AROS.
Just because you repeat a lie over and over again it doesn't make it any truer.
Tell me, what new hardware that is released does OS4 support? Oh that's right, none whatsoever.
It doesn't even support the hardware in its flagship machine fully.
What is it with a large segment of OS4 users seeming to only be able to enjoy their chosen OS by spreading lies about MOS/AROS?
If you had made valid complaints then fair enough but you've done nothing but make yourself look ridiculous with the nonsense you've been spewing in this thread.
-
I think I opened a can of worms that is now not possible to close :insane: I think I can just conclude that in the end it is really a matter of preference. I will take that as a final answer to my original post question.
well said. thread closed before it turns into a flame-fest. :)
:flame:
-- eliyahu
-
Test