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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Tenacious on May 06, 2013, 11:31:54 PM
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I have 4 PPC Macs: G3 Tower, G4 eMac, G4 Quicksilver, and G5 single 1.8 Mhz. I have been trying to like OS10.4 for a couple of years, now. It's alright for the most part, but, I have some glaring frustrations with it from time to time.
I cannot seem to write an ISO (even with tutorials from the net).
It is hit and miss to add commodity hardware to this system. Some of it kind of works and some doesn't at all.
When exploring new programs or features, the whole finder (not just the process!) can lock up for 30 minutes or indefinitely. Very annoying for a multitasking machine.
You can probably discern that I'm pretty frustrated right now. I am impressed with the hardware quality, but, some of Apple's philosophical choices in the OS annoy me. Other OSes seem to me to be less proprietary, allow multiple ways to get things done, and are much less finicky about hardware add-ons (drives, ports, etc) from other manufacturers. I'm ready to move on.
So, the reason for this post is to ask seasoned Morph people how it runs on Mac hardware. It is my hope that my G4, when installed with MorphOS, will not still retain the poorly outlined disappointments above. What limitations were revealed after trying to live with Morph?
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First thing to be aware of is that (currently) MorphOS will only run on your G4 Quicksilver and maybe your eMac - depending on which model it is.
Second thing to note is that MorphOS is, at its core, an Amiga. So it has all the pros and cons that come with running an Amiga system. The main advantage is the incredible resource efficiency - you'll get much better performance out of the system under MorphOS than under MacOSX or Linux. The main disadvantage, of course, is a lack of applications. The MorphOS version of OWB, however, is probably the best browser on an Amiga-like platform today. It has a modern rendering engine and a GUI that retains the best features of IBrowse.
Personally, I've found MorphOS to be more stable and to have better 68K compatibility (system friendly programs only, of course) than OS4.
Give it a try - there's a free demo. If you don't like it, you'll be out nothing more than a few hours time and a CD-R. Burn (http://burn-osx.sourceforge.net) is a good basic CD-burning program for OSX. You'd burn the MorphOS ISO from Burn's "Copy" tab.
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I'd recommend giving OS9 a shot on that G3, if you're not that fond of OSX. Classic Mac OS has its own issues, but it's much less resource-intensive, more flexible (OS8-9 don't have quite the amazing third-party system-extension ecosystem that System 7 did, but there's still some interesting things you can do with them,) and seems to me to be more of a coherent, unified system than OSX, which despite its technical merits is basically a Mac-like UI and a custom library selection grafted onto BSD.
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I'd recommend giving OS9 a shot on that G3, if you're not that fond of OSX. Classic Mac OS has its own issues, but it's much less resource-intensive, more flexible (OS8-9 don't have quite the amazing third-party system-extension ecosystem that System 7 did, but there's still some interesting things you can do with them,) and seems to me to be more of a coherent, unified system than OSX, which despite its technical merits is basically a Mac-like UI and a custom library selection grafted onto BSD.
John's answer is the most practical.
Heck, OS9 was so popular that they re-introduced a 1.25 MDD just for people that wanted to run it
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But I'd try MorphOS on the Quicksilver.
You obviously are familiar with the Amiga.
Load it up and run OWB.
That's the configuration and the software package that hooked me.
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Tenacious
You will love Morphos. Its more stable and compatible than Amiga os4. Better browser too. I cant believe this guy's advice is to run OS9 on your g3 LMAO. Go on Morphzone.org many will help you there and there are good threads on what machines are compatible with morphos.
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I cant believe this guy's advice is to run OS9 on your g3 LMAO.
Well it's not like you can run MorphOS on it, unless they dropped their "G4 and up" policy, and OS9 is certainly a better fit for G3 and lower hardware than OSX. 'Sides, who knows? He might like it.
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Thanks to all for the quick replies. Sadly, it appears that the eMac is only a 1Ghz model, and not compatible. The Quicksilver is a 933Mhz 3,5 model (good, right?), but, it has the Nvidia card. I will have to find another video card. So, is there a huge performance difference in the various ATI Radians? How would 3D acceleration benefit an Amiga-like OS?
I have to agree with Commodorejohn & Iggy about the biege G3 tower. It was a transitional design with ADB but no USB. Apple seemed to abandon it quickly. It would run early OSX versions only very slowly. When I booted into OS 9 alone, OTOH, it was comparitively speedy. I liked its built in audio/video, especially with Audion. What other OS option is available for it?
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Oh, it's a beige G3? (I figured it was a Blue & White.) Even more reason not to run OSX on it. As for other OSes, there's OS8, which isn't quite as featureful as OS9 but is a good bit lighter and speedier (particularly if you only have < 128MB RAM in it.) Other than that, it's pretty much various Linux/BSD distros; AFAIK the PowerPC BeOS versions never supported G3 or newer Macs.
As for the Quicksilver, here's a tip: if you get an 8x AGP Radeon 9600-9800 intended for a G5 (see here (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/ati-radeon) for compatible models; you might also be able to re-flash a PC equivalent, but the Mac ones aren't too difficult to come by,) and you do a simple hack (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11) to work around an issue with Apple's proprietary ADC video cards, that's about the most powerful video card you can get in a G4. Serious MorphOS users could better tell you what you'd gain from that, but it seemed to get along with MorphOS when I booted it on my G4.
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Commodorejohn
Ok I see your point. You were trying to have him get use of the g3 so yeah thats good advice. If you want to do soemthing really funky you could install Debian on the G3 and run Mac On linux with OSX! Hahha that was the original intention of the MOL project iirc
For sure run morphos on the g4 you will have tons of fun with it and it will be SUPER FAST.
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Be careful when buying a Mac Radeon.
I bought one from eBay a few years ago and it wouldn't physically fit in either of my G4 towers (Both are MorphOS compatible machines).
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I'm getting that any compatible ATI Radeon is generations ahead of the performance of my old Picasso IV. Also, those Apple Radeons originally intended for G4 towers will require NO modifications or flashing to work in my Quicksilver. And, the 8x AGPs pointed out by Commodorejohn (thanks for the link, :)) will require no mods or flashing if installed in my G5.
So, what applications or MorphOS features will make use of the those Radeons that offer 3D hardware acceleration?
I find myself looking forward to the MorphOS release that runs on G5. ;) Anyone heard of a time frame?
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Also, those Apple Radeons originally intended for G4 towers will require NO modifications or flashing to work in my Quicksilver.
True, but (provided that MOS can get a significant benefit from the GPU) I'd highly recommend hacking a 9600 or 9800. The hack isn't difficult to perform, and the difference between the 9000 and these is pretty vast, performance-wise. (Had to knock Halo down to 640x480 and medium settings to get a really decent framerate on my G4 with the 9000, whereas it runs well at high settings in 1280x1024 on my 9600.)
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So, the reason for this post is to ask seasoned Morph people how it runs on Mac hardware. It is my hope that my G4, when installed with MorphOS, will not still retain the poorly outlined disappointments above. What limitations were revealed after trying to live with Morph?
Read http://via.i-networx.de/wim.htm to get a first impression about MorphOS. Even better: just run it and try out yourself. Demo version is free.
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...their "G4 and up" policy...
Their is no such thing.
G3 Pegasos 1s should work.
And the Efika's processor is sub-G3.
And magnetic's comments are a little off base.
I don't advocate OS9 for the Power mac.
But its not a bad system for the other two.
Definitely about the only thing for the G3.
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Their is no such thing.
G3 Pegasos 1s should work.
And the Efika's processor is sub-G3.
As I've been told, those are exceptions because it was already done, but they've said that they don't think G3 Macs are worth the bother...
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The Quicksilver is a 933Mhz 3,5 model (good, right?), but, it has the Nvidia card. I will have to find another video card. So, is there a huge performance difference in the various ATI Radians? How would 3D acceleration benefit an Amiga-like OS?
Yeah, that system is the one you want to run MorphOS on.
I used a similar system for over a year.
And it can be upgraded.
If you hunt around long enough (on ebay, etc) you can usually find a cheap 1333 or 1400 MHz accelerator card. The last one I picked up cost less than $40.
Where are you located?
If its not too far away I can send you some kind of video card.
Oh, and the G5?
Why not run OSX Leopard.
And sell the G4 eMac.
Their displays darken and fail early.
Besides, you'd have three systems then, OS9, OSX, and MorphOS.
Then you'll have a real basis for comparison.
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And magnetic's comments are a little off base.
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Well first I dont know what you mean by "off base" i'd love to hear you clarify exactly what I as "off base" about.
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Well first I dont know what you mean by "off base" i'd love to hear you clarify exactly what I as "off base" about.
My, aren't we combative tonight?
What I meant is you were a little negative about the OS9 suggestion.
Its a valid idea, and there is a lot more software for OS9 then MorphOS.
Sometimes people want systems they can use, rather than something that is more suited to hobbyists.
Besides mag, you seem to forget that on most thing I side with you.
And the guy's got exactly the type of system I started using MorphOS with (a 933MHz Quicksilver).
I'm giving that system (with a 1333MHz processor) to haywirepc in Philadelphia.
Hopefully Steven will get some use out of it.
Three Power macs is a couple too many.
BTW - Try and remember that I'm not Franko. OK?
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Hey iggy didnt mean to come off like that i've got this stupid neck problem right now and it makes me irritable ;)
What software would be any good for os9 right now?
I have os9 on a stored HD for my peg2 (I used to be able to boot os9 or osx) I used os9 for playing Baldurs gate and some other mac games on my peg2 in 2003.
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What software would be any good for os9 right now?
Largely depends on what you want to do. A lot of classic Mac games will run on OS9 (most System 7-era software and a fair bit of System 6-era software is pretty forward-compatible,) so there's a lot of gaming options. There's also a very solid base of productivity software; Photoshop 7 (my image-editing mainstay) and Illustrator 9, Flash 5, Aldus Freehand, the list goes on...Macintosh Garden is a great resource for this. There's even a modern-ish browser in the form of Classilla. (http://www.floodgap.com/software/classilla/)
Really, if you can live without YouTube, you could pretty much do anything else you please on OS9.
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Really, if you can live without YouTube, you could pretty much do anything else you please on OS9.
Yes, but why would you want to?
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Don't sweat it mag. Right now I'm a little irritable myself because I don't feel good and I am putting off dealing with it so I can be at home when my next paycheck arrive.
I've got some bills to deal with that I can't handle from a hospital bed.
OS9 software? The first thing that comes to mind is word processing. They had that down two decades ago. WYSIWYG was around when OS9 was current.
I'm sure there is other stuff.
And look at how many of us still use Amiga packages that pre-date OS9.
But, realistically, the machine I'd focus on would be the Quicksilver.
As my first MorphOS platform, that system will always hold a place in my heart.
And besides, there are some down right dumb elements in the MDD design.
For instance, what sub-genius at Apple decided to move the video card to the left where, when the case is closed, the cards cooler sits a fraction of an inch from the Superdrive's housing?
I thought Jobs was supposed to be a genius. Sheesh!
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Yes, but why would you want to?
Why would you want to do half the things we do in this community?
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Where are you located?
If its not too far away I can send you some kind of video card.
That's a very generous and kind offer, Iggy! Thank You. I have a Mac Radeon 9000 on the way already from eBay.
I wish I had checked this out a long time ago.
@Zylesea
Nice link. Thanks