Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Invisix on February 01, 2004, 12:38:14 AM
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I know this has probably been brought up before, but which do you all perfer. Pegasos II or AmigaOne?
The Pegasos II seems to be the better system, and cheaper! However, I have a question reguarding MorphOS. Does MorphOS support Amiga games, and applications?
Thanks! :-D
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Well... I only used one of the systems.
I opted for an AmigaOne in 2002, but it screwed up and ended up unrepairable.
I wasn't too impressed with it, so I'm sticking to classic amigas until a new amiga i like turns up.
Pegasos II looks impressive, and bplan seem a more professional company and better customer support, but I really want to see AmiDelf's Amiga 6000 project take off :-)
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Pegasos II vs AmigaOne
:nervous: Oh dear...
I know this has probably been brought up before, but which do you all perfer. Pegasos II or AmigaOne?
I prefer Pegasos II.
Does MorphOS support Amiga games, and applications?
Yes... Well kind of.
If the application or game is programmed properly (fully system compliant) it should run it as though it is a native application (from the users perspective)
For example I always startup with the old 68K fat95
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which do you all perfer. Pegasos II or AmigaOne?
Not really a matter of preference to me. I'd probably own both if the AmigaOne wasn't so damned expensive. Personally speaking, AOS4 doesn't justify the cost of an A1. Neither system has a browser that up to snuff as they should be, not to mention a lack of other programs as well (word processors, etc..)
Does MorphOS support Amiga games, and applications?
Anything that is completely system friendly should, in theory, run. Most games probably won't, but a lot of applications do
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Invisix wrote:
I know this has probably been brought up before, but which do you all perfer. Pegasos II or AmigaOne?
Peg II, but I'm biased
The Pegasos II seems to be the better system, and cheaper! However, I have a question reguarding MorphOS. Does MorphOS support Amiga games, and applications?
Thanks! :-D
Most should run. It comes down to if the developer programmed by using the OS API or banging the hardware. So highly-optimized games and demos that push the hardware probably won't work, but those are increasingly rare as with OS 3.0 and later there was no need to bang the hardware to get the performance out of the machine.
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@Madgun68
AmigaWriter, Final Writer and Word Worth all does the job for me. I don't need anything more advanced. But if it isn't enough for you you can use Page Stream instead.
Browsers isn't a problem since Linux are available. On the classic Amiga I used Netscape 4.08 through Fusion for the few pages that I couldn't use with the amiga-browsers.
It's all a matter of priority as usual. If you can't stand to use two systems stay with Windows.
And now it's really off topic.
A1 will get the best support for games since Hyperion continues the development of Warp3D. AOS 4 will come with UAE for older games.
Regarding the hardware I guess that they are both good, I don't know though since i only own an A1.
Regarding the price.... well Amiga has allways been more expensive than a PC if you look at CPU-speed and memory. I could've gotten a 486 with more memory, bigger harddrive and a higher clock-rate wich people seems to be looking at just as much today as they did back then but I choosed the A4000 instead. I've been very happy with my choice.
And this really makes me wonder how some people got in contact with the Amiga in the first place. If it was bought cheaply second hand it can be done again once the first A1s is old.
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Does MorphOS support Amiga games, and applications?
As stated before in this thread, OS friendly games and applications work:
(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/amirc-1.png)(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/scsibench-1.png)(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/sid4amiga-1.png)(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/aminetradio-1.png)(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/amigaamp-1.png)
If the game hits hardware you can use UAE:
(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/superfrog-1.png)(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/superfrog-2.png)
[EDIT: Added some more shots. Yes scsibench has slight gfx bug, but that's because the app is not prepared for 88MB/sec speed ;-) Also, excuse my lame MUI config, I really have no taste.]
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Hi Invisix
Well the Reason I use Pegasos is as Amiga replacement. I have an A4000T sitting right her no my Lan with 2 Pegasos boxes (Peg1 g3 - Peg2 g4) and I can tell you the "Real" Amiga hasnt been on in months! I do everythin on my Pegasos and MorphOS.
*Special thanks to Piru for the screenshots
As you can see any apps that run under Cybergrafx will run under MorphOS. I use mostly Amiga apps atm! Of course, there are tons of MorphOS native applications that I use daily.
And blindingly fast! Blows away ANY Amiga or Amithlon system as its not Emulation!
Considering OS4 is still in an "Alpha" state and Morphos in a much more advanced (working) state its no contest. In all the demos I've seen I only see a couple of apps running. I'd like to see a list of software that works right now on AOS4.
Also the fact that OS4 got voted in the top VAPOUR Products in Wired magazine is kind of scary! :P
magnetic
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Hi Invisix,
I know this has probably been brought up before, but which do
you all perfer. Pegasos II or AmigaOne?
On paper, the Pegasos II specifications are superior, that's not
really debatable. However, in comparison to modern hardware from
the "mainstream", both products will fall short.
Does MorphOS support Amiga games, and applications?
Like others have said, anything that is "system friendly" will
behave well. So most WB style apps run without issue (paint, internet,
media players, etc), and many, but not all, programs which are
promotable to their own (user defined) screens will work.
*Most* games do not work, and there is sadly only a very small
percentage of demos that will run, but that's not the fault of
MorphOS (and OS4 will be no different).
However - in addition to what already runs, MorphOS does enjoy
a steadily growing base of "native" software, and there is much
more planned...games, an office package, demos, another OS update
and more are all "in the works"...
IMO...I bought a Peg II, basically because I needed a new machine to
fill my tech-hobby cravings, and also because, in comparison to other
solutions, I felt that the Pegasos enjoyed the more "progressive"
development - and therefore the best chance to enjoy some
amount of success in the market. The hardware, despite not being
entirely "cutting edge", is still very capable, and also somewhat
of an interesting anomaly amongst the "throng". I'm having a blast
with MorphOS, in all honesty probably more fun than I've had with
any computer since my Commodore 128...
My old, somewhat 'souped up' A1200 - which I originally intended to
run right beside my Pegasos - is now collecting dust in the closet...
--edit--
Although you didn't ask, if you haven't already
checked out AROS (http://www.aros.org), now may be a good time...in
fact, I'm currently sourcing a laptop for the
sole intention of running it.
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Though I have only used A1 twice, I'd choose Pegasos. Price/Performance difference is huge.
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Considering OS4 is still in an "Alpha" state and Morphos in a much more advanced (working) state its no contest. In all the demos I've seen I only see a couple of apps running. I'd like to see a list of software that works right now on AOS4.
Aos4 is Beta state HERE (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3052&forum=14)
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I prefer AmigaOne as that runs AmigaOs , and thats the sole reason why i sticked to amiga when everybody else left (99-2003).
no doubt that the pegasos 2 is a nice machine , but it doesnt got os4 and thats what makes me prefer the a1 over it.
i must add that ihave owned both peg 1 and a1 XeG4 and that both i sold after a shorter time (sold the a1 due to money probs and the peg1 due to hw probs) but i will not say that peg2 is better or worse than its first one as i need to see it and test it , but i am really looking forward to the AmigaOne Micro , if the price is right then i am sure alot will follow that one i guess.
anyway aOs4 aint out yet but it will be shortly , morphs1.4 is out but thats still beta and missing a few crucial things but by no means useless if you have some amiga experience or an second machine (ie an classic amiga).
i put my 2 pence on (for now) both peg2 and a1, both have its up's and downs but the biggest one is that AmigaOne has the name + Os4.
cheers
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Invisix wrote:
I know this has probably been brought up before, but which do you all perfer. Pegasos II or AmigaOne?
I prefer the Pegasos II.
The Pegasos II seems to be the better system, and cheaper!
Yep. That's why so many people prefer it (those who aren't too bothered about the "name").
However, I have a question reguarding MorphOS. Does MorphOS support Amiga games, and applications?
Yes. System-friendly apps run well, hardware banging apps run through UAE.
Also, both WarpUP and PowerUP PPC applications run very well under MorphOS.
I think that if you were to buy a Pegasos, you'd be very happy with your purchase. I'm about to buy a G4 Pegasos, and sell my Mac :-)
Thanks! :-D
:-)
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@HotRod
AmigaWriter, Final Writer and Word Worth all does the job for me. I don't need anything more advanced. But if it isn't enough for you you can use Page Stream instead.
I do use AmigaWriter. I just won't use it for my college work, where the instructor requires a specific layout.
It's all a matter of priority as usual. If you can't stand to use two systems stay with Windows.
I do use one of them.. :-P Well, i used to use my Pegasos a lot more than I do now. It used to dislike my first KVM but it absolutely hates my new one. I refuse to redesign my deskspace just for it. (okay, heading back on topic.)
Regarding the price.... well Amiga has allways been more expensive than a PC if you look at CPU-speed and memory. I could've gotten a 486 with more memory, bigger harddrive and a higher clock-rate wich people seems to be looking at just as much today as they did back then but I choosed the A4000 instead. I've been very happy with my choice.
Yes, but there's less choice now. People that couldn't afford the high cost of an A4000 could usually afford an A1200. That option isn't currently available.
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Invisix wrote:
I know this has probably been brought up before, but which do you all perfer. Pegasos II or AmigaOne?
The Pegasos II seems to be the better system, and cheaper! However, I have a question reguarding MorphOS. Does MorphOS support Amiga games, and applications?
Thanks! :-D
The Pegasos wins by far IMO. Better price, better features, more OS's, etc, and it has MorphOS! (You won't be able to run MorphOS on the A1's ... ;-) :-P :-D)
If it runs Amiga programs? Well, many people sees the Pegasos/MorphOS combinations as a Next Generation Amiga. Me myself is using my Pegasos/MorphOS as my *only* amiga since a year back. That should answer your question ... ;-)
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Both are too damn expensive and software side they offer nothing more than my x86 machine running Amithlon, if decent software ever comes out then ask the question again.
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I got an AmigaOne, and I love it. Of course, I'm one of the lucky few with OS4 on mine, but really I'm very glad I bought it.
OS4 is really nice, even in its beta state. At first I was skeptical about some of the new features, like the idea of libraries having a new interface scheme, but now i've got it on my desktop and had a chance to try it out, it really kicks ass!
I've used MorphOS a couple of times, and it seems very nice, but IMHO its no substitute for the real thing ;-).
If you're on the fence, why not wait until OS4 is out and try them both before you buy.
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OS4.0 ofcourse, but i will wait for the next generation hardware for it, as i have a suspect it will be cheaper than the current A1
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Peg II against AmigaOne
Hmm I guess peg II is ok, it has software by virtue of freeloading from the origonal base Amiga software, and some "native" applications.
Genesi is more professional if you count stooping to any method to discredit you opposition as "professional"
Morphos is still in beta state, has been for some time and will likely be for quite some time more.
Amiga on the other hand is being orchestrated by Amiga Inc whos business dealings are as yet dubious,. but are supported by two other comapanies with very good reputations that seem to have contacts and support of some rather impressive people. The OS is unavailable as yet except to beta testers, and soon the early bird purchasers.
Bottom line here is, if you really want to purchase an Amiga, go for the Aone, if you dont give a stuff but just want to run your old software and want to go PPC then the pegasos will probably fit your bill better....for now.
There really is not a great difference in the hardware, or the software at this point, so there is no real requirement for comparison as niether system is ready as a commercial product/OS combination as yet.
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A few months ago I was OS4.0 only then in late november I looked at the cost and I figured I could get a full PegII system for less-than half the price of a Amiga-One.
I paid £212 for my PegII 600mhz plus ~£100 for extras that i couldn't pull from my old 1200.
I would have to pay £528 for the lowest spec AmigaOne plus the £100 extras and the extra for OS4.0
The costs: PegII £312 amione: £628+OS4.0 (probably ~£700 inc OS4)
Thats LESS than half price for a much better board. We are talking £300 for the name Amiga!! It's not worth it
After the prices opened my eyes I started to seriously look at morphos and I have never looked back.
Put simply there is nothing Amione has that jusitfys the considerable extra expense.
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@iondeluxe
What you call freeloading is just what users want. They want reasonably priced hardware and an Amiga-like OS that is available and usable now, with software. Trying to claim that there is something wrong and bad with letting them choose just because it doesn't favour the AmigaIncONE is just sour grapes.
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KennyR wrote:
@iondeluxe
What you call freeloading is just what users want. They want reasonably priced hardware and an Amiga-like OS that is available and usable now, with software. Trying to claim that there is something wrong and bad with letting them choose just because it doesn't favour the AmigaIncONE is just sour grapes.
Amiga.org's bastion of Socalisim defends the capitalist idea :-)
I'm with you Kenny!!!
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They are both excellent machines. Pegasos II looks much nicer though, not as much as iMAC though.
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CU_AMiGA wrote:
They are both excellent machines. Pegasos II looks much nicer though, not as much as iMAC though.
But you won't be able to run MorphOS on that mac either! ;-) At least not yet!
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I really dont give a rats ass if they take advantage of old software or not, look at linux and windows. I think thats great. What I dont like is the image they promote as "supporting the Amiga community" when in fact what they are doing is hijacking that said community to support themselves in direct competition to the real amiga solution.
Even Linux has more integrity than that.
I am purely sick of the lies and other rubbish spouted by Genesi that is completely ans utterly forgiven by the blue crowd, not to mention completely ignored forgotten and swept under the carpet! It just promotes more of the same behavior.
Same goes for the coupon debacle with the red crowd and the general level of behaviour all round.
There is a sevre lack of integrity with the companies and organizeation related to this community( with a couple exceptions), and the only way this is gunna change is if we the community pull them up and take them to task over it.
Now if you want to relegate my opinon to the lvl of "sour grapes" without any concrete argument to back it up then be my guest, I am quite used to even the moderators of this site not adhering to thier own rules and further fomenting discontent to let such a thing get under my skin.
In any case, this entire topic is little more than barely vieled flamebait as as I have said, any such comparisons are premature as niether solution is yet in the state of a commercially complete hardware/os product at this stage.
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I think I will run OS4 on my A4000/PPC and will maybe buy an MicroAone when it comes out. It looks very interesting.
I would of course also use morphos on my cyberstorm if they had released it like they promised last year.
@ IonDeluxe
What I dont like is the image they promote as "supporting the Amiga community" when in fact what they are doing is hijacking that said community to support themselves in direct competition to the real amiga solution.
I don´t think so. Look what say said about the amiga and pegasos on morphos-news.de/ann.lu (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=26):
"In the meanwhile, what is the market for the Pegasos (while the eclipsis is in development)? Probably: 1) Linux users, 2) embedded system developers, 3) application developers that want to do rendering on stacked boards with dual processors or build something very special that has a huge amount of processing power... "
"Will "Amiga" be a big market for us? We do not think so. First, because we are not an official Amiga piece of hardware, and secondly because we are using MorphOS. The two just don't go together."
They also did not pay their advertisement on ann.lu anymore and I havent seen a pegasos banner on amiga.org for a long time either. So maybe they already found their new market? :-o
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In any case, this entire topic is little more than barely vieled flamebait as as I have said
Why do you say that? So far we've had only mature comments from people stating their preferred system and their reasons for choosing it. No flames, and no arguments.
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Pegasos II. :)
You can read my review/overview here:
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/samel/review2/peg2review.html
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rayt wrote:
I think I will run OS4 on my A4000/PPC and will maybe buy an MicroAone when it comes out. It looks very interesting.
I would of course also use morphos on my cyberstorm if they had released it like they promised last year.
@ IonDeluxe
What I dont like is the image they promote as "supporting the Amiga community" when in fact what they are doing is hijacking that said community to support themselves in direct competition to the real amiga solution.
I don´t think so. Look what say said about the amiga and pegasos on morphos-news.de/ann.lu (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=26):
"In the meanwhile, what is the market for the Pegasos (while the eclipsis is in development)? Probably: 1) Linux users, 2) embedded system developers, 3) application developers that want to do rendering on stacked boards with dual processors or build something very special that has a huge amount of processing power... "
"Will "Amiga" be a big market for us? We do not think so. First, because we are not an official Amiga piece of hardware, and secondly because we are using MorphOS. The two just don't go together."
They also did not pay their advertisement on ann.lu anymore and I havent seen a pegasos banner on amiga.org for a long time either. So maybe they already found their new market? :-o
Yup, The BAF's can pat themselves on the back and feel happy that the only company to actually put any money into the Amiga Market has decided to leave.
To all of you, I send great big well done!
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@rayt
That may be what they say there, however it is at odds greatly with how BBRV has conducted himself on this site, and others.
@bloodline
Genesi was never part of this community, they were competing with this community trying to draw off users to thier own community.Now that they have done that about as much as they are able they are off on thier merry way.In fact your very attitude evidenced by your derogitive "BAF" shows just how effective that campaign has been.
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Oh look.
Trolling and flames.
Hmmm, I haven't seen this type of thing before. Not ever. Please continue. It just never gets old!
:-x
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bloodline wrote:
Yup, The BAF's can pat themselves on the back and feel happy that the only company to actually put any money into the Amiga Market has decided to leave.
To all of you, I send great big well done!
Who exactly you are refering to when you say BAFs, are you talking about the handful of extremists, or are you talking about those who have chosen the option brought forward by Eyetech/Hyperion under the name of "Amiga" i.e. Current and prospective AmigaOne/OS4 users?
If it's the latter, then I think you've totally missed the point of choice and you are out of line. Should everyone have bought a peg just because they were there?
To me it seems that Genesi left for the most basic of business reasons, there just wasn't enough sales around here to justify staying in this market.
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Ok, not trying to bash with a sledgehammer here but if OS4 was released at the same time as MorphOS i think the majority of current Morph users would have picked OS4....
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I have a Peg1 but I think I can still respond to this question. I like my Pegasos and think it is the winner of your comparison by default (among other reasons) because of MorphOS. MorphOS has reached a reasonable level of functionality and has working games and apps and current development. MorphOS puts the "fun" in "functionality." Conversely the AmigaOne and OS4... I am not going to criticize it except to say that you see its proponents call OS4 "soon to be released" and so on. They've been saying this for three years but that aside, Pegasos wins by default.
Let OS4 be released and then we can compare again. Maybe then OS4 will be superduper "bulletproof" thoroughly betatested version its proponents claim. I have a more pessimistic view, but that's not my thing to criticize OS4. I wish them luck because its an alternative OS and sort of a "sister OS" to MorphOS. But no-one can argue with the fact that right now MorphOS makes Pegasos the best choice for Amigans, if you define Amigans as people who have historically used the Amiga 68K or PPC-accelerator-carded line of computers and who like to run Amiga programs.
If you define Amigans as people who support only Amiga Inc. and its partners and buy only computers branded with the Amiga trademark then I guess AmigaOne wins even though OS4 hasn't been released yet.
Now if you mean "I am not asking about MorphOS or OS4, I just asked whether the hardware of AmigaOne or Pegasos2 is better," that's another question. Pegasos is developed by bPlan, who have a long long history in the Amiga community and introduced the PPC accelerator cards and made the largest efforts of anybody to keep the platform alive in the middle and late nineties. So I find that that is a real plus that makes the Pegasos better for Amigans. Additionally I have seen the AmigaOne demonstrated and was not impressed at all. It ran a clunky version of Linux, didn't have any sound, and used UAE to run some Scala presentation and display large windowed grids of icons at slow speed. I am sorry if AmigaOne fans don't like me for saying this but it is true to what I saw and I am entitled to my opinion.
In its favor though I would say that AmigaOne benefits from having a bigger company MAI behind it. MAI is bigger than Genesi, so maybe they can put more money into AmigaOne development BUT this is is not evident yet from what I have seen. As far as I am concerned Pegasos is superior hardware and it is a nice small microATX form factor and the G3 version is very low wattage and saves you money on your power bill, whereas I recall reports (including one from Alan Redhouse of Amiga Inc. partner Eyetech) that people had to buy bigger fans because the AmigaOne was overheating.
Maybe I'll get screamed at, but that's my opinion and I think I have backed it up rationally: Pegasos is better.
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lets try to keep this thread friendly please. If you have a different view to someone else thats fine, but dont go trying to impose your view on others, it will never work. The bottom line is think before you post, I have faith in you guys to be mature and keep this thread from turning into another flame war.
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Pegasos II.
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Ok, not trying to bash with a sledgehammer here but if OS4 was released at the same time as MorphOS i think the majority of current Morph users would have picked OS4....
Could be. But there is still price issue and MorphOS 1.4 is powerful OS already.
(Edited my posting)
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I think, as many people have mentioned in the past, that judgement should be reserved until OS4 is out.
And, it will always be a case of each to his own. Rather than being a case of which is 'better', it should be a case of which suits *you* better.
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y Cyberus on 2004/2/1 15:54:20
I think, as many people have mentioned in the past, that judgement should be reserved until OS4 is out.
And, it will always be a case of each to his own. Rather than being a case of which is 'better', it should be a case of which suits *you* better.
Makes Perfect sense to me.
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Pegasos II vs AmigaOne.... :roll:
:flame: :destroy:
I'll let you know ...... real soon.... :-P .... as if.
---------------
redfox
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I ain't gonna buy anything yet (no money :boohoo: )
But as long as OS4 isn't released yet, I'd like to buy a Pegasos 2 I think
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restore2003 wrote:
Ok, not trying to bash with a sledgehammer here but if OS4 was released at the same time as MorphOS i think the majority of current Morph users would have picked OS4....
If QNX were also available at the same time, I would choose it :-D
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Well. If I had got OS4 when I was willign to purchase Aone (and prepaid the os).. But at this point I'm not spending a cent to them until I see it full deatured and having solid development (including new Apps) and considerable larger user base. At the moment, to me it's still too much half-baked project to be considerd usefull and worth the money spend. I know some people see it differently and I'm not going to stop them havign these systems.. But for me, it's not there yet.
(edit)
Concerning Pegasos II ... It's not perfect either, but I have used for my daily networkig needs... On some (e-mail) it's better than windowse-PC, on others (Web) it's not.. But I can use VNC to connect my PC so I'll have it's browsers & other tools available by just switching to another screen on MorphOS. And on some issues (configurability/usability) it's just so much better than my PC..
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(http://www.bouncingayatollah.co.uk/aorgimages/aosmos.gif)
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BouncingAyatollah wrote:
(http://www.bouncingayatollah.co.uk/aorgimages/aosmos.gif)
:lol:
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masc: you are spreading FUD atm.
1. where have u heard the OS4 price?
2. Who said Earlybird users have to pay extra for Os4 ? (ITS BUNDLED WITH THE HARDWARE!)
3. peg 2 is only 100 usd cheaper than the a1xe G4 here in norway! , oh yeah u forgot to mention that u used the EXCHANGE prices (where u deliver in your old motherboar (peg1) and gets a peg2.
4. shame about you closing your eyes, but then again its your choice, and thats the beauty of having aros/amigaos/morphos choices and hardware choices.
no harm intended but u where insinuating too much and u forgot some facts. :)
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A1 will get the best support for games since Hyperion continues the development of Warp3D. AOS 4 will come with UAE for older games.
Hyperion is a company with limited resources. It's yet to see if they can alone develop an OS and port games in paralell, and supply their solution with applications alone in the meantime.
MorphOS already has a very nice WarpOS/Warp3D support via wrappers. I can play Shogo (a Hyperion game) anytime on my Pegasos - can you do the same on OS4? No. You have to purchase it once more, in the form of a "native" version.
And it's not everything. JunGL is in development for some time and will provide full OpenGL support for MorphOS. Do I have to explain it's expected impact?
Not to mention UAE 0.8.22 which runs happily here.
We have plenty programs which were developed natively for MorphOS and later had AmigaOS versions as well. This is the way how the community indirectly benefits from MorphOS development.
With Pegasos/MorphOS you get free SDK and the SuperBundle.
With AmigaONE you still get nothing but a Linux with UAE. (Sarcasm on)With "buggy" drivers, which can't support ArticiaS features, thus corrupting data in some cases.(Sarcasm off)
If all goes well, you will soon receive a pre-release of OS4. It will have (according to forum posts) neither WarpOS/PowerUP support, nor native Picasso96, JIT...
For quite a long time the two solutions will be no match for each other. And if you want to wait for a full comparison, you may have to wait for years.
You can get frustration on both systems. The difference is with AmigaONE you can expect to have a hell a lot more for much more, and far less on Pegasos II - for almost half the price.
Another slight addition: MAI northbridges are present in the AmigaONE and the Teron. Both are MAI products... Many projects which used or planned to use the Articia northbridge folded, or switched to another one.
While the Marvel northbridges (one of which is used in the Pegasos II) was recently chosen by IBM as well.
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Oh dear, here we go again :-(
Might buy an Amiga One when OS 4 comes out, but only if I can run a TV card in it and the upgrade from my 1200T doesn't cost a fortune (wishful thinking!?), otherwise will probably stick with 1200T - not feeling an upgade urgency really, which is unusual :-D
Quite excited about the mini ITX A1 though, would be nice to build and Win MediaCenter-style Amiga in a neat little box with DVD, TV, cordless keyboard etc.
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3. peg 2 is only 100 usd cheaper than the a1xe G4 here in norway! , oh yeah u forgot to mention that u used the EXCHANGE prices (where u deliver in your old motherboar (peg1) and gets a peg2.
By the way how much A1 and PegII costs in Norway?
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Well being a long time Amiga fan and curent A3000/PPC user I want OS4. I plan to put it on my A3000 to test it out. If I had to choose I would pick the Peg II because its out and has proven to run Amiga apps better then even a Amiga can do as long as they are not hardware hitting apps. I've seen it in action and love it. Now if the AmigaOne gets made with better hardware (The Peg II is much more advances) then it may win me over. You cant say AOS4 is out and working on AmigaOne because the masses cant use it, only the few beta testers that got picked. If it runs as well as they sai t does then they should start pachaging it and get it out so it can get some exposure. The the WORLD beta test it. We just want the damn OS to use! MOS has us all beat and is only moving ahead more and more by the day.
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MorphOS already has a very nice WarpOS/Warp3D support via wrappers. I can play Shogo (a Hyperion game) anytime on my Pegasos - can you do the same on OS4? No. You have to purchase it once more, in the form of a "native" version.
Who at hyperion told you that you have to purchase native Aos4 versions of their games all over again ?
-
Hi,
The decision has been made. I'll be buying an A1 mobo within the next 3 weeks.
I support Amiga. Without them Morph would not exist at all.
Cheers,
Chris
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"Now if the AmigaOne gets made with better hardware (The Peg II is much more advances) then it may win me over"
WTF?
How is it that this legendary Pegasos 2 is so much more "advanced" then?
Don't you dare say "DDR RAM" either, as I'm quite sure you won't find much to support your "advanced" claims about the speed.
About the only thing the Peg 2 is.... is cheaper. It's parent company heavily subsidized Peg1 boards to "key" people of the community, so they can come on here to tell people like me that we're all "BAFs". And for the people who like to say that Phase5 built the original PPC boards and kept the Amiga market alive, they also stole a ####load of preorder money from people. Great guys, honest!
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I'm sorry to even say this, but all this is testing is one version of say Linux against another. It's all complete BS.
You can't compare two products that are designed for different things. There is NO AMIGA OS realesed yet, it is not going to run on a Peg so far, so unless you're willing to compare installs of Linux, don't bother.
If you think that this is the only version or revision of the AMIGAOne Hardware base, your all misled. There could be another 16 vendors that produce motherboards etc for the AMIGAOs with a lisence from AMIGA, that's the whole point. There may be custom graphics hardware built, ATI and Nvidia both sell their GPUs to anyone whao want's them, we could end up with a hybrid 3d card with AGA compatibility on an AGP bus or something, or a 68k harware accelarator on PCI, the sky's the limit.
Untill there is an AMIGA OS product to evaluate, comparisons are useless as there is no real product to compare.
Who knows, if there's enough interest, MSI may build an AMIGA mainboard. Who knows.
Useless discusssion. Of course things will change and develop. This should be in slashdot. Linux Vs Linux lol
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>Hi,
The decision has been made. I'll be buying an A1 mobo within the next 3 weeks.
I support Amiga. Without them Morph would not exist at all.
>Cheers, Chris
Yeah, reverse psychology! When 8 out of 10 suggest to go for Pegasos, you go for A1 :lol:
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I'm proud of you guys..it brings a tear to my eye.. so far no bad trolling.
I disagree with the comment "if OS4 was out at the ame time MorphOS was you would choose OS4". I didnt see it that way. Here in the USA the Peg I was $199 while the A1 was what $500 or so (or was it more? 800? I cannot remember but it was VERY expensive) To me that was too much money, even if it had a operating system (just for arguments sake saying OS4 was already done).
-
"Yeah, reverse psychology! When 8 out of 10 suggest to go for Pegasos, you go for A1"
8 out of 10 Pegasos owners, that is.
-
Well since I've been out of the Amiga community so long I missed out on a lot of the history here. I will say that right now my classic stuff is keeping me more than amused and I have vowed that I will not look at the new stuff until I can see AOSS4 and Morph at the same time. It's the only way to do a good evaluation of what to buy.
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@realstar
Lame v3.93 tests:
Encode a 40MB 16bit stereo AIFF into MP3 128Kbps - 1:02 secs
Encode a 5.6MB 16bit stereo AIFF into MP3 128Kbps - 10 secs
What happened here i.e. 40MB yields 1:02 sec, while the smaller file 5.6MB yields 10 secs?
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@Nerp
8 out of 10 Pegasos owners, that is.
Well, no-one is stopping Amiga/AmigaOne-owners to speak out their opinion aswell.One could get the idea that my word weights less only because I am an owner of Pegasos, and therefore am a lesser person :-)
But it's been like this always. There is supposed to be several hundred A1 owners out there, but somehow only a handful of them are active. Respect to Xeron for standing up for what he believes in, and always even backing it up with good reasoning.
Your comment was a bit unrequired too, a simple "I have an A1, and I am OS4 betatester, go for A1 as you'll love it" would have done it.
-
IonDeluxe wrote:
Peg II against AmigaOne
Hmm I guess peg II is ok, it has software by virtue of freeloading from the origonal base Amiga software, and some "native" applications.
Genesi is more professional if you count stooping to any method to discredit you opposition as "professional"
Morphos is still in beta state, has been for some time and will likely be for quite some time more.
Amiga on the other hand is being orchestrated by Amiga Inc whos business dealings are as yet dubious,. but are supported by two other comapanies with very good reputations that seem to have contacts and support of some rather impressive people. The OS is unavailable as yet except to beta testers, and soon the early bird purchasers.
Bottom line here is, if you really want to purchase an Amiga, go for the Aone, if you dont give a stuff but just want to run your old software and want to go PPC then the pegasos will probably fit your bill better....for now.
There really is not a great difference in the hardware, or the software at this point, so there is no real requirement for comparison as niether system is ready as a commercial product/OS combination as yet.
Wow.. that's a fair comment. and here I thought you were just a troll! Maybe I was wrong. :-D :-D :-D :-D
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IonDeluxe wrote:
I really dont give a rats ass if they take advantage of old software or not, look at linux and windows. I think thats great. What I dont like is the image they promote as "supporting the Amiga community" when in fact what they are doing is hijacking that said community to support themselves in direct competition to the real amiga solution.
You are right, AmigaInc did just exactly this with their AmigaDe project, where they partnered with Microsoft.
Oh wait.. were you refering to Genesi here?
Even Linux has more integrity than that.
I am purely sick of the lies and other rubbish spouted by Genesi that is completely ans utterly forgiven by the blue crowd, not to mention completely ignored forgotten and swept under the carpet! It just promotes more of the same behavior.
Same goes for the coupon debacle with the red crowd and the general level of behaviour all round.
I'm not sure what lies/rubbish from Genesi that you are refering to?
There is a sevre lack of integrity with the comp
anies and organizeation related to this community( with a couple exceptions), and the only way this is gunna change is if we the community pull them up and take them to task over it.
YES! :-D
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Tried both different times. My choice is for sure AmigaOne.
See you :-)
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But it's been like this always. There is supposed to be several hundred A1 owners out there, but somehow only a handful of them are active. Respect to Xeron for standing up for what he believes in, and always even backing it up with good reasoning.
You are quite right, very few Aone owners are active on Amiga.org.
Most are active at www.amigaworld.net/ (http://www.amigaworld.net/)
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NeRp wrote:
How is it that this legendary Pegasos 2 is so much more "advanced" then?
Well, you asked for it:
* DDR. Oops, I dared say it. For advanced claims, ask Hammer the advantages PC2100 DDR-266 has over A1's simple PC133 (edit). Needless to say, they aren't small gains.
* ATA100 UDMA. Embarassingly, it seems that ArtiaS bugs that have long been denied may just make this impossible on A1. I hope for Eyetech's sake there is a fix. The idea of an $800 board running IDE on PIO4 is very depressing.
* Faster AGP. Forget that it's labelled x1, thanks to Articia its still faster than AmigaONE x2 AGP.
* Infrared IRDA control. A1 has none.
* Two ethernet ports, one gigabit. A1 has just one, and its not gigabit.
* Two firewire ports capable of 400MB/s. A1 has none.
* Free firmware updates. A1 earlybird owners had to pay to get their bios updated for OS4.
* Free Amigalike OS bundled. OS4 was quoted at $160.
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KennyR wrote:
* ATA100 UDMA. Embarassingly, it seems that ArtiaS bugs that have long been denied may just make this impossible on A1.
Not actually true. DMA does work on the AmigaOne, just not terribly well with the Linux drivers that are out there at the moment.
* Two firewire ports capable of 400MB/s. A1 has none.
Can anything actually use them yet? If not, they're under the same classification as the A1's onboard sound; IE there but not very useful.
* Two PS/2 ports. A1 has one.
Well, theres a PS/2 port for my keyboard, and a PS/2 port for my mouse, which makes 2. Not sure why you'd need more than one of each.
* Free firmware updates. A1 earlybird owners had to pay to get their bios updated for OS4.
For a minority of very early purchasers. I do think thats a shame, and could have been handled better, but for the vast majority its a case of downloading an ISO or floppy image, writing it to a disk, and booting it. I've flashed my firmware twice.
* Free Amigalike OS bundled. OS4 was quoted at $160.
There is no confirmed final price, and besides which everyone who has bought an A1 to date is an earlybird, and therefore gets a free copy of AmigaOS once available.
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About the only thing the Peg 2 is.... is cheaper.
Peg2 G4 is not only cheaper, but also faster.
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KennyR simply you are trolling. The information you give are wrong or incomplete. See Xeron's reply.
On board AC97 sound. A1 has none.
As i know all the A1 XE models have the AC97 integrated.
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Who at hyperion told you that you have to purchase native Aos4 versions of their games all over again ?
So are you implying that the remastered versions will be free of charge either for AmigaONE owners or owners of previous copies?
Will I get native OS4 versions for free for my original Hyperion titles?
Anyone from Hyperion confirming it?
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Itix:
(theese prices are from the amiga shop here, 1 other shop who doesnt have a webshop is abit cheaper (amigaone) (only mailorder/visit the shop)
Pegasos (PPC Amiga)
PEGASOSG3600
Pegasos G3/600.Board w/CPU-mod.G3 600MHz(750CXe)+M
6163,-
6040,-
AmigaOne
A1G3XE
AmigaOne G3-XE mainboard+CPU/free OS4 if order bef
7924,-
7765,-
A1G4XE
AmigaOne G4-XE mainboard+CPU/free OS4 if order bef
8618,-
8446,-
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@Alkemyst
You are quite right, very few Aone owners are active on Amiga.org.
Most are active at www.amigaworld.net/
That is true now, there's no denying it. However, the situation was pretty much the same when aw.net didn't even exist yet. I remember some discussion about this then.
Wish there would be more A1 owners here, theres plenty of space for everybody.
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warface: i would really like to see where you quoted that from (about hyperion releasing a1 os4 native versions as a new product!)
if so its really weird because i have not heard any mentions about it and i also never heard about os4 costing 100-160 usd and so on.
lame troll attempts , but then again native versions will run better than a wrapper but there is allready native versions for several which i am not in liberty to discuss here.
anyway since u mentioned that hyperion have a tight schedule etc, ofcourse they do! but they havent said like "HEYY, we are now only porting os4! , we stopped all out game dev!" oh and btw they got several new people in hyperion now, maybe u forgot to mention it? , and yes they do GAMES only!.... oh no.. seems like your warface is becoming pale..
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hooligan: yeah i iwish it would be more a1 owners here aswell, but we all know why (we choose Aw) and why peg is the second most named product on Amiga.org , where AROS is the most named product atm.
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I know this has probably been brought up before, but which do you all perfer. Pegasos II or AmigaOne?
The Pegasos II is obviously beter and cheaper than the AOne.
Moreover AOne is known to have DMA problems.
Vesalia price:
- Peg II G3 600Mhz: 346 Euros
- AOne G3 800: 759 Euros
A lot of cheaper even if AOne has a faster G3
The Pegasos II seems to be the better system, and cheaper! However, I have a question reguarding MorphOS. Does MorphOS support Amiga games, and applications?
MorphOS supports every system-friendly application. Demo and old amiga game can be use with UAE.
From a hardware point of view the PegII is far better, it's obvious.
From a software point of view: it is too if you consider that OS4 is still in beta while MorphOS is release. Even if you consider latest OS4 beta I've saw and "old" MorphOS 1.4. MorphOS is still far in advance.
Of course, OS4 fan will prefer the AOne for the OS4...
In conclusion my choice is Peg II because it's cheaper, better, working, and MorphOS is usable and perfectly able to execute Amiga applications
Moreover, Linux and OpenBSD are working of Peg which is nice for my school stuff
Bye
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* DDR. Oops, I dared say it. For advanced claims, ask Hammer the advantages PC2100 DDR-266 has over A1's simple PC100. Needless to say, they aren't small gains.
Not to mention you can go to just about any hardware store and find memory for the Peg systems. The AmigaOne RAM is so old you need to look and then hope its rated to work at all with the AmigaOne. Dont get me wrong I am Amiga all the way and havent made a decision at all. Its just the Peg II is out and MOS is SHIPPING and WORKING on consumer boards, while OS4 is still in closed beta and still no firm date of release. That needs to be taken care of ASAP.
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ikir wrote:
KennyR simply you are trolling. The information you give are wrong or incomplete.
If I'm wrong, I didn't intend to be. I did surf for quite a while to make sure before I posted those comparison specs. But that was not trolling, not even by AmigaWorld's strange standards.
As i know all the A1 XE models have the AC97 integrated.
A mistake on my part. I apologise. I'll edit my post.
@xeron
Linux can use Pegasos firewire. But that's really beside the point in a purely hardware comparison.
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Hi Guys,
I'm a newby here. Excuse my rambling but it may give you some insight into where a lot of the less hardcore Amiga enthusiasts are coming from.
I left the Amiga world in the early 90s and I want to come back in from the cold.
I had an A1000 back in my 10th year at school with an IBM XT compat sidecar(which I upgraded to a 286 8mghz Woohoo:) which allowed me to use a PC hard-disk for the Amiga back when they were hideously expensive and terribly low capacity. Using a PC on an Amiga was also something to boast of as was the Mac emulator I had at the time.
To me the Amiga, and all the kick ass graphics and sound made me excited about technology in a way no PC has since. It was the logical successor to the C64 which I also adored.
That A1000 was such a cool little machine I bought it 'used', over an A500 of the same price. I didn't notice any difference in capabilities really, although booting kickstart from disk was a pain. Years later I bought a second A1000 cheap just to get a memory upgrade. Hey, doesn't everyone do that?
The Amiga name itself conjures up memories of how all my PC and ST friends were envious as hell at the terrific looking games, music and graphic apps I had. And I never had to modify a config.sys file. It was an all in one turnkey system that inspired some ####iness on my part due to costing a third of most PCs at the time. (Funny that the tables are turned and a decent PC will probably cost a third or less than the A1.)
Those demos showing off the hardware and music capabilities of the system are what knocked everyone's socks off at the time. I wonder if the demo scene will ever re-ignite.
I am not sure if hardware speed alone can inspire that kind of elation. If speed is your thing, I can guarantee that a similar priced PC will kick an Amiga. 3D graphic cards are the 'in' thing and we're going to share that with the PC, if we're lucky. While you obviously need decent hardware you need decent software as well.
I think the main problem we are facing is one of software. The hardware is really irrelevant except to the most hardcore of people who have maintained an ongoing investment in Amiga products. I commend you for keeping the spirit alive, and hope you don't mind that some of your investments may take a backseat to the developments at Amiga Inc.
But the fact remains, that the killer app for the Amiga was the games. With the new bunch of consoles and the 3d capabilities and software base of the PC, I would think it impossible to reclaim the throne. But I guess we don't need to.
However, what is the most exciting prospect about the Amiga One and AOS 4 is the potential to re-ignite the passions of people who once had an Amiga. I see many people returning to an Amiga for sentimental reasons. Admittedly its all in the fondness for the name. You can't call something a PegasOS and get the same effect, no matter what the price. No one comes back to a Pegasos!!!! They will come back to an Amiga though. I know I will. People grew up with them and now, almost ten years later have the greater disposable income to purchase a brand new Amiga system regardless of its exorbitant cost. Pegasos, may be better and cheaper, and you may end up arguing that until you're blue in the face, and even proving it, but your starry eyed new Amiga owner won't even give it a second thought. Its the official Amiga, the Amiga One, all the way and any other talk could be considered sacrilege(?).
But, like everyone, I want to know what configurations A1s come in and how much it will cost. Personally, I haven't the patience to stuff around trying to get things to work for more than 2 minutes. Kinda the reason I wiped Linux. With dedicated hardware I wanna see it work first go. I want the official turnkey solution with the official case and the big Amiga Logo before I can take it seriously. Without that, its just another motherboard in some bodgey case and I might as well stick to my BORG PC. Did you hear that Alan Redhouse!!!!! And the case better look as cool as the MAC ones if we're going to pay the premium!!! Love that new stainless steel look!!!
I gotta say, Morphos looks beautiful, and I love that Ambient UI, but I might as well be running Beos for the good it will do me.
Having an Amiga was like being the underdog. Its probably still the case, with the Wintel alliance. It now looks like we may have finally gotten something better. Having a Pegasos is like being the underdog to Amiga. Effectively an underdog to an underdog. But that's your choice and I respect that.
I wonder, could the two systems, both A1 and PegasOS prop eachother up and create a broader community rather than two disparate ones. I am hoping we're all on this newsgroup for the same reason.
I have checked some of the profiles and it seems that a few of you are intending to develop for both. I am wondering if there will be any kind of compatability between apps for AOS and Morphos? If there is, and they are similar to program, perhaps someone can develop a toolkit or even a guide to converting apps not only from Morphos to Amiga and back, but from PC to Amiga systems and back. I'd buy that book!!!!
I have now been a software engineer writing serious windows and internet business apps for almost a decade, and although I never programmed anything except a little AMOS game on the Amiga it kind of died before I had the skills to do something decent.
I am eager to get my hands on a completed fully fledged system and add some decent apps and maybe even a little game to the community. Everything old is new again, and we have the chance to reinterpret the world in the Amiga image.
It just occurred to me that it was the one-upmanship within the developer community that propelled the original Amiga. Both within the Amiga community and with the other platforms. Something that is sorely lacking in these days of Blockbuster budget games.
I really hope that Amiga Inc never make a closed system like PS2 or Nintendo(should they make a console) and that the Amiga community of enthusiasts can begin in earnest to create new and innovative apps and games even if the audience is limited. Back in the early nineties it seemed like anyone could write a game or app and you didn't need a crew of 20 or more. I hope we return to this, as that is where all the innovation came from. Hell, OS4 is being written by only 2 or 3 guys and its in the same league as Windows!!!!
These are exciting times for us, and all the enthusiasts and hobbyists out there. But I'm willing to wait for my dream system. Please, please, don't release it with bugs. I would hate for the Amiga One to become a laughing stock. Hey, but don't wait so long the hardware is dated either!!!
Ben
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PEGASOSG3600
Pegasos G3/600.Board w/CPU-mod.G3 600MHz(750CXe)+M
6163,-
6040,-
Huh! For Peg G3 motherboard that is expensive...! You should get G4 GHz for that price :-o
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@KennyR
* Faster AGP. Forget that it's labelled x1, thanks to Articia its still faster than AmigaONE x2 AGP.
How do you know that? Just because Bill Buck said so? Or is there a proof for that?
@Acill
Not to mention you can go to just about any hardware store and find memory for the Peg system
I doubt you can do that. The Pegasos2 does not support every DDR module. Here (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=40) you can see a few ones that work/don´t work though.
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rayt wrote:
How do you know that? Just because Bill Buck said so? Or is there a proof for that?
Not Bill Buck. Gerald Carda I think, although I could be wrong. He designed the April fix for the first Pegasos and should know all of ArticiaS's "features". Apparently ArticiaS makes it impossible to get the full bandwidth out of the PCI/AGP/IDE bus without hanging it or getting corrupt data.
-
April does anything apart from slowing down everything? Why it slows down Articia to 100Mhz instead of 133? Why you can use both memory banks on the A1 with unregistered memory and not in the Pegasos1? Incorrect initialization maybe? Why Pegasos II still has compatibility issues with some DDR dimms if it has been set up with conservative settings?
Why PegasosII still has lock-ups with the IDE? The southbridge is still initialized incorrectly (like in the pegasos1)? Problems with the interrupts? Wasn't it an ArticiaS issue?
If doing Articia drivers is not so problematic why the UDMA OS4 drivers are taking do long?
Why A1 hasn't a driver for the on-board soundcard? Why the Pegasos hasn't a Firewire or floppy driver yet?
I advice to wait to compare both solutions in a more advanced state.
There are too many questions without answer yet and I'm so bored. None of both solutions seems to be 100% safe yet. Both parties have to improve their drivers a lot. When the drivers are finished it will be the time to compare.
At the moment a Pegasos2 G3 is clearly a better option if you don't have money or if you don't want to wait until the a1 lite.
If we choose a G4 model the price difference between A1 and Peg2 G4 is quite smaller and the A1 could be an option. But they are both quite expensive...
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KennyR wrote:
Well, you asked for it:
* DDR. Oops, I dared say it. For advanced claims, ask Hammer the advantages PC2100 DDR-266 has over A1's simple PC100. Needless to say, they aren't small gains.
A1 PC100 Eh ?... Sounds like more FUD!
Yeah sure you can use PC100 if you want, but why ?
I've got 1GB here 512MB kingston 133 ECC & 512MB Hynix Non-ECC, with a 750FX at 1GHZ.
* ATA100 UDMA. Embarassingly, it seems that ArtiaS bugs that have long been denied may just make this impossible on A1. I hope for Eyetech's sake there is a fix. The idea of an $800 board running IDE on PIO4 is very depressing.
Again people don't listen.
i'll spell it out for you slowly so you understand.
III.TTT.SSS AAA. LLL.III.NNN.UUU.XXX. III.SSS.SSS.UUU.EEE !!!!
Faster AGP. Forget that it's labelled x1, thanks to Articia its still faster than AmigaONE x2 AGP.
And you make your comparison on what information.
Or is this more FUD Spreading ?
* Infrared IRDA control. A1 has none.
But does have a IRDA header.
* Two ethernet ports, one gigabit. A1 has just one, and its not gigabit.
True its is 100Mb, but I'd love to see you post a screen grab of RCFTPD 2.74 using the gigabit port under morphos, so we can all see what speed the OS actually can push . I bet its not doesnt come near 100Mb so whats the point in having it.
* Two firewire ports capable of 400MB/s. A1 has none.
True.... cant think of a need for them.
* Two PS/2 ports. A1 has one.
Thats a bit odd I've got a Mouse and keyboard plugged in here ... that makes 2.
* Free firmware updates. A1 earlybird owners had to pay to get their bios updated for OS4.
This was a blunder that a few people with G3 boards, got stung by. But all subsiquent ugrades are free. Didn't the peg2 ship with a corrupt bios. See every side is human and makes mistakes.
* Free Amigalike OS bundled. OS4 was quoted at $160.
Were did you get that figure from ? No price has been quoted AFAIK More FUD kenny ? OS4 is FREE to earlybird purchasers and AFAIK the offer still stands upto the point when OS4 final version ships. Then the earlybird offer with end.
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@Crumb
Your other questions are to inflammable for me and today ...
Why the Pegasos hasn't a Firewire or floppy driver yet?
FW, cos it's a hell lot of work (similar to an usefull USB-stack, if not worse).
The floppy-controller in the VIA-southbridges is still the accessed the same
way as it was in IBM's AT from 1982 ......
Yes it is that bad, and you can't just write normal driver with breaking stuff
inside Quark (thats laire's excuse ;-) ). And really of what use would it be, since
you couldn't read Amiga-formated disks with it ?
Those who really need floppies can buy a Catweasle, those who just need PC-floppies
can buy an USB-drive (yes those should work).
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JurrasicCamper wrote:
Yeah sure you can use PC100 if you want, but why ?
I've got 1GB here 512MB kingston 133 ECC & 512MB Hynix Non-ECC, with a 750FX at 1GHZ.
Ok, PC133 then. But still not as fast as DDR and you know it.
i'll spell it out for you slowly so you understand.
III.TTT.SSS AAA. LLL.III.NNN.UUU.XXX. III.SSS.SSS.UUU.EEE !!!!
If OS4 comes out and can't do UDMA, what will your excuse be then? Will you blame Hyperion in triple letters too?
True its is 100Mb, but I'd love to see you post a screen grab of RCFTPD 2.74 using the gigabit port under morphos, so we can all see what speed the OS actually can push . I bet its not doesnt come near 100Mb so whats the point in having it.
* Two firewire ports capable of 400MB/s. A1 has none.
True.... cant think of a need for them.
You're intentionally sidestepping the point. The point is, these do make the Pegasos-2 technically superior whether you like it or not or call it FUD or not or find any use for the extra power or not. So get over it already.
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KennyR, JurassicCamper, all.... if your posts are NOT ACCURATE, EDIT THEM. Otherwise it will just add more flame/troll bait to whats already out there. If I have to delete posts, I will.
Thanks, and have a GREAT day,
Alex
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KennyR wrote:
If OS4 comes out and can't do UDMA, what will your excuse be then? Will you blame Hyperion in triple letters too?
He won't need to.
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@KennyR
"Ok, PC133 then. But still not as fast as DDR and you know it."
Although it obviously increases speed of some I/O operations, everyone knows that G4s bus can't take advantage of DDR memory and is limited to a non DDR 133Mhz bus.
About the AGP the benchmarks of Pegasos1 vs Pegasos2 suggested that Pegasos1 AGP was faster (I don't care much, for me the point of using AGP is being able to use cheaper cards)
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xeron wrote:
KennyR wrote:
* Two firewire ports capable of 400MB/s. A1 has none.
Can anything actually use them yet? If not, they're under the same classification as the A1's onboard sound; IE there but not very useful.
I use the Firewire on my Pegasos every so often. (having a firewire-based camera does that ya know) Works great for Debian.
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"And really of what use would it be, since
you couldn't read Amiga-formated disks with it ?"
you could read pc-formatted disks...
I know that nowadays it's not as important, but it's a little annoying. If the motherboard includes a floppy controller why should I buy a more expensive usb or floptical drive?
If you talk with Laire it would be nice for Mac emus if he leaved free the address from 0x0000 to 0x3000 (yes, like prepareEmul or RsrvCold did). It won't affect MOS but will allow mac emus to be ported easily (who knows, iFusion may even work directly with this small change).
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Crumb wrote:
April does anything apart from slowing down everything? Why it slows down Articia to 100Mhz instead of 133?
April does not slow down everything. April DOES not slow down the bus, this is setup by the FirmWare (you can read the FirmWare startup serial output).
And even if the April WOULD slow down the computer it WOULD be worth because it DOES fix ArticiaS issue.
Why Pegasos II still has compatibility issues with some DDR dimms if it has been set up with conservative settings?
There are indeed , some imconpatibles memory module, but nothing compare to the ArticiaS 's hell.
Why PegasosII still has lock-ups with the IDE? The southbridge is still initialized incorrectly (like in the pegasos1)? Problems with the interrupts? Wasn't it an ArticiaS issue?
It has never been said it was because of the ArticiaS, but a bug (maybe lack of doc) of the VIA8231.
This problem is not Pegasos specific. And it IS fix in software in Linux. And you can solve it in MorphOS 1.4, you have to disable the removable feautre of you CD/DVD/ZIP drive using UnitControl
If doing Articia drivers is not so problematic why the UDMA OS4 drivers are taking do long?
Well, maybe because ArticiaS DMA doesn't work ???
(I'm just ironic here, I dunno at all !!)
Why the Pegasos hasn't a Firewire or floppy driver yet?
Pegasos DOES have driver for floppy and FireWire using Linux or OpenBSD (only floppy I guess).
About MorphOS certainly because they don't want to support stone age device (for floppy), and because FireWire need a driver but also the whole stack ...
None of both solutions seems to be 100% safe yet. Both parties have to improve their drivers a lot. When the drivers are finished it will be the time to compare.
Pegasos IS safe.
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@Darthx
You are right, AmigaInc did just exactly this with their AmigaDe project, where they partnered with Microsoft.
Oh wait.. were you refering to Genesi here?
Yes I was referring to Genesi, the Amiga DE deal with MS was new product being sold under DE for MS...not really the same thing. Its kinda hard to hijack your own software base anyway
I'm not sure what lies/rubbish from Genesi that you are refering to?
Well the glaring one is Gary Hare for CEO, but the list is pretty exhaustive dating back some two years ago.Another one is: "we support the community and want OS4 on pegasos" When in actual fact they will do nothing to get OS4 on pegasos and expect AmigaInc\Hyperion to port it for them whilst also thumbing thier nose at the requirements for OS4 on thier machine.
The bottom line here is that the community division would have resolved itself simply by licensing the pegasos which they have had plenty of time to do.
Now there is also plenty on the Amiga Inc side to go on about(coupons changing plans, paychecks not being delivered), and there is alot behind the companies involved, the history of event since the demise of commodorre that also needs to be taken into account, but that is for another thread and another time.
I cant wait for OS4 to hit commercial release because then not only will we have a comparison to draw upon, but also 90% of the lies FUD, and whathaveyou will HAVE to be resolved, and maybe, just maybe we can get past the slanging match that has been going on for the past 2 years
Thankyou for your comments :)
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April does anything apart from slowing down everything? Why it slows down Articia to 100Mhz instead of 133?
It doesn't. I don't have April here and nothing is faster. Only slower (just think of DMA transfers errors with
onboard ethernet).
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lempkee wrote:
warface: i would really like to see where you quoted that from (about hyperion releasing a1 os4 native versions as a new product!)
Hyperion talks about about remastering their old games to be OS4 native. Beg your pardon for my ignorance, but as you all seem so sure about me being wrong - will you please enlighten me?
lame troll attempts , but then again native versions will run better than a wrapper but there is allready native versions for several which i am not in liberty to discuss here.
The same applies to MorphOS, rest assured. Mind you, I haven't seen any proof that I was wrong. Even in the _only_ thing you argue with my post I haven't heard a valid argument: am I'm wrong then, will it be for free?
My understanding is clearly this, and I stand to that, and if I will receive a free OS4 version for my owned games, please share the happy news with me. I even asked for Hyperion's confirmation when my statement was questioned.
Thanks for calling me a troll just for that.
anyway since u mentioned that hyperion have a tight schedule etc, ofcourse they do! but they havent said like "HEYY, we are now only porting os4! , we stopped all out game dev!" oh and btw they got several new people in hyperion now, maybe u forgot to mention it? , and yes they do GAMES only!.... oh no.. seems like your warface is becoming pale..
You're very close to the borderline of openly offending me. Their schedule and that we have only a pre-release lacking key features only - speaks for itself. Feel free to interpretate it as you like, I stated my opinion. You have your own, it won't make a troll out of me.
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@Crumb
>you could read pc-formatted disks...
I know that nowadays it's not as important, but it's a little annoying. If the motherboard includes a floppy controller why should I buy a more expensive usb or floptical drive?
----------------
USB Memory, 8MB 16 euros
USB Memory, 64MB 29 euros
Floppydrive 10 euros
Disks 10pack 4 euros
Compare price and usability:
1) USB Memory.. plug'n'play, pretty fast and a joy to use.
2) Floppydisk.. screech craach, slow as hell, and probably broken in less than a month anyway :)
Your option would be... ofcourse... ?
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"And even if the April WOULD slow down the computer it WOULD be worth because it DOES fix ArticiaS issue."
With proper drivers (built with more documentation) probably that "issue" wouldn't exist.
"but nothing compare to the ArticiaS 's hell. "
I still wonder why A1 supports non registered memory in both banks and pegasos1 not. And that leads me to think that it's incorrectly initialized due to lack of documentation.
As there are lock ups with the IDE interface of the southbridge it makes me think that they lack some important info.
BTW, I don't think much people will invest >350€ just to run linux if they can buy much faster x86 computers. I'm interested in AmigaOS-like OSes.
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ikir:why i said u where trolling :)
prices aint as cheap as u say unless u live in the country where its produced, CUSTOMS cost, taxes COSTs etc.
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warface: first of all i would like to see where hyperion said that their os4 native versions whould be an NEW PRODUCT (hence we who own their ppc versions of their games).
i have seen NO such comment anywhere, and yes they will all be "native" soon enough.
there has been chats about maybe adding them to the os4 final cd but nothing is confirmed, as it was just a suggestion and that goes for filling the cd up with demos (OS4 NATIVE) of their games.
i got upset because u insinuated that the Native versions would cost money or most of all will be a new product!.
and because u said hyperion have no time to port games because of their os4 development , and btw there was a news item not long ago about JUST that.
ps:bear in mind that i will get upset aswell if i have to buy Shogo , heretic2 , freespace and quake2 all over again (at full price) just to get the os4 native version , but i dont see it happening as i where pointing out earlier, there is simply no POSTS/NEWS about this from hyperion itself.
sorry if i offended you but i feel i answered the proper way , but then again big threads like this where people use every thing against each others (mos vs aos4) well its easy to get upset too fast.
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As far as im concerned the original question has been answered long ago and this thread is border line on trolling, if it continues to get worse I will have to take action, as a fellow moderator has already stated. Give it a rest guys.
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IonDeluxe wrote:
Yes I was referring to Genesi, the Amiga DE deal with MS was new product being sold under DE for MS...not really the same thing. Its kinda hard to hijack your own software base anyway
I thought it was the way AmigaInc alienated their other partners by choosing M$ over them. One of AmigaInc's partners ended up taking M$ to court. Of course choosing M$ alienated many Amiga users.
(M$ is responsible for swallowing up one of my favourite Amiga companies.)
I'm not sure what lies/rubbish from Genesi that you are refering to?
Well the glaring one is Gary Hare for CEO, but the list is pretty exhaustive dating back some two years ago.
[/quote]
Garry Hare is a real person:
http://www.ccon.org/conf97/program/speakers.html#Hare
Another one is: "we support the community and want OS4 on pegasos" When in actual fact they will do nothing to get OS4 on pegasos and expect AmigaInc\Hyperion to port it for them whilst also thumbing thier nose at the requirements for OS4 on thier machine.
What you probably mean is "who is going to pay for OS4 to be ported to the Pegasos?", right?
A Hyperion rep mentioned the development costs of OS4 being close to $5 million. So any port of OS4 to Pegasos would require a serious chunk of change.
There are 15+ operating systems being ported to the pegasos, most of these are being ported by the developers themselves and not funded by Genesi. Genesi is only supplying free boards and support for these boards.
Hyperion need to recover the development costs and the fastest way for them to do this is by finishing OS4 for the AmigaOne first then pursuing other markets for OS4.
Of course a certain 'far eastern' company would have a larger interest in investing in the OS4 project because they get to sell lots of AmigaOne PPC boards and funding OS4 is small amount of money compared to what is spent supporting Windows platforms.
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lempkee wrote:
ikir:why i said u where trolling :)
prices aint as cheap as u say unless u live in the country where its produced, CUSTOMS cost, taxes COSTs etc.
False reasoning. Customs, taxes are usually percentages of the original price. They make the cheap expensive, but the expensive even more expensive. It makes the difference in the prices to increase, and not the contrary.
At least it works that way here. Maybe your country has a different customs/taxation system?Or you live where the AmigaONE is produced?
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IonDeluxe wrote:
@Darthx
I'm not sure what lies/rubbish from Genesi that you are refering to?
Well the glaring one is Gary Hare for CEO,
If there were any lies about Hare, they seem to have come from AInc.
Fleecy Moss to be specific.
but the list is pretty exhaustive dating back some two years ago.Another one is: "we support the community and want OS4 on pegasos" When in actual fact they will do nothing to get OS4 on pegasos and expect AmigaInc\Hyperion to port it for them whilst also thumbing thier nose at the requirements for OS4 on thier machine.
With all due respect, that's ludicrous.
No hardware company, especially companies like Genesi or Apple who also have their own OSes, will want to "have" AmigaOS or anything else that doesn't bring a significant commercial advantage. Especially not if THEY have to pay for it by licensing, bundling and support.
AInc's (or Hyperion's, depending on how you see it) customers, i.e. you and me, want AmigaOS. Hardware companies have nothing to do with AInc or AmigaOS. But WE are not allowed to buy AmigaOS unless we also go along with the charade that there's any reason to only buy our hardware on an "Amiga market".
It's just bizarre to put the blame for the unavailability of AmigaOS for Hardware X (which is sold with Operating System Y) on the obvious and natural reluctance of Hardware Company Z to buy a totally useless license.
They (Genesi) "expect AInc/Hyperion to port AOS4 for them"?
Sweet Jesus! Are Eyetech porting AOS4 to the Terons themselves?
No, WE expect the SOFTWARE PRODUCERS to PRODUCE THE SOFTWARE for US, the SOFTWARE PRODUCERS' CUSTOMERS. Then WE expect the SOFTWARE PRODUCERS TO SELL US THEIR SOFTWARE.
These are the fundamentals.
Anything beyond that, like OEM licensing, bundling and whatnot can be additional options if someone's interested - it simply cannot be made to be the only possible way of ever porting and selling the software. If the software is like AmigaOS, a small niche OS without any hardware "of its own", then it will die if one imposes such unnecessary restrictions on its possible hardware base.
As a side note, we already know of one rather big (at least when compared to Eyetech) American computer dealer who inquired about selling Pegasos hardware under that "Amiga" license, but he stopped getting replies from AInc. That must have been the fault of the hardware producer, right? :P
@ an earlier comment of yours:
What I dont like is the image they promote as "supporting the Amiga community" when in fact what they are doing is hijacking that said community to support themselves in direct competition to the real amiga solution.
You're not even joking now, are you?
OK, I never got the contract that AInc sent out when they were formed, which we should sign to validate that we and our custom from then on would belong to AInc by default. Could you send me a copy of yours?
:P
"Supporting the Amiga community" can (when applied to commercial companies) be producing and selling stuff that community members need/want. This is what companies like Hyperion and Genesi are doing.
...
Oh. The topic was "piece of hardware X vs. piece of hardware Y".
Here's (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=486) an overview of the two mobos.
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i got upset because u insinuated that the Native versions would cost money or most of all will be a new product!.
The reason for that is the expression remastered for OS4. Remastered Lucasarts films, various soundtracks are usually sold standalone and for a full or at the minimum an additional price.
You're talking about something usually called "free" "update", but I nowhere seen Hyperion using either of these expressions. Hence my presumption.
However, I understand your concern now, but yet I'd like to have official word from Hyperion, and I still stand to my interpretation. Hope you see what I base my presumption on.
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@BigBenAussie
what is the most exciting prospect about the Amiga One and AOS 4 is the potential to re-ignite the passions of people who once had an Amiga
Nice post Ben. I think you hit my feelings right on. I too feel the "return from the cold" which would make me lean more toward a name. It's the nostalgia for me as well as the computing platform that isn't Linux and most certainly NOT Microsuck.
Welcome to A.org!
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YAY!
Another thread flooded by insecure males having a thinly disguised penis size competition. :-o
What a surprise, everyone is right, and everyone must the final word. There's something similar but with windows/PCs on AmigaWorld (That's AmIgAIncFleecylOVerMikEBWorld for those who were dropped on thier heads as babies)
Just a quick straw poll, does anyone think what is said (or more likely repeated for the 10000th time) will make a blind bit of difference?
Am I imagining that there used to be good, civilised, interesting discussions on the net? :-?
And someone on IRC wondered why I started getting uncomfortable when a AOS Vs. MOS discussion started up, now you know why.
Or am I totally wrong???
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"but nothing compare to the ArticiaS 's hell. "
I still wonder why A1 supports non registered memory in both banks and pegasos1 not. And that leads me to think that it's incorrectly initialized due to lack of documentation.
Hrm? This is news, as I'm running 2 banks of unregistered RAM here.
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>Another thread flooded by insecure males having a thinly disguised penis size competition.
Not me.›I've got the biggest.
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Hooligan_DCS: I dunno.. here in the USA we use inches and feet..so I win.
This thread was somewhat informative but has strayed from comparing 2 systems.