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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: bitman on April 14, 2013, 11:24:05 PM
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I'm trying to estimate the number of Commodore Amiga 4000T produced (not the AT models), by collecting the serials. There's a thread here (http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/forum/yaf_postsm88_CBM-A4000T-serials.aspx#post88) where I enter the serials. You can post your serial here or post it directly in the thread at BBoAH.
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I'm trying to estimate the number of Commodore Amiga 4000T produced (not the AT models), by collecting the serials. There's a thread here (http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/forum/yaf_postsm88_CBM-A4000T-serials.aspx#post88) where I enter the serials. You can post your serial here or post it directly in the thread at BBoAH.
My 4000T skin is an AT but it's heart, mind and soul is C= :). My motherboard is a C= 4000T Rev 2 "Ser. No. 2 1-10-94" (handwritten sticker). It's the yellow silkscreen with a Buster 11 in a socket as well as some small chips (pals/gals?) that the Rev 4 has surface mounted. The motherboard works but I lose the Zorro boards after a reset when it warms up. The Buster socket is visibly bulging (never had the problem with a quality 3000 socket) and it probably needs a cap job but I haven't gotten around to it. I did replace the AT power supply so that wasn't it. I've tried to take pictures before with a cheap camera but they didn't come out very well (fuzzy and poor lighting).
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Is it normal to hav a CBM motherboard in the AT version?
My 4000T skin is an AT but it's heart, mind and soul is C= :). My motherboard is a C= 4000T Rev 2 "Ser. No. 2 1-10-94" (handwritten sticker). It's the yellow silkscreen with a Buster 11 in a socket as well as some small chips (pals/gals?) that the Rev 4 has surface mounted. The motherboard works but I lose the Zorro boards after a reset when it warms up. The Buster socket is visibly bulging (never had the problem with a quality 3000 socket) and it probably needs a cap job but I haven't gotten around to it. I did replace the AT power supply so that wasn't it. I've tried to take pictures before with a cheap camera but they didn't come out very well (fuzzy and poor lighting).
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Is it normal to have a CBM motherboard in the AT version?
Not that I know of although I have heard of miscellaneous parts being thrown together and replacements being whatever was available during and after the chaos of the C= bankruptcy. Usually it's more common to find newer replacement motherboards in older cases.
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Your mobo is probably the same as mine:
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/cc5297f7-34a6-4d2d-a2b9-4e78d9dd4eef.jpg
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Your mobo is probably the same as mine:
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/cc5297f7-34a6-4d2d-a2b9-4e78d9dd4eef.jpg
No. That looks like the AT/Escom motherboard. That board is green and my board is yellow. My board has the C= copyright 1991 printed on it although it's missing one C= symbol that the later boards received. My board has a sticker with the hand written serial number where the printed serial number appears on later motherboards. It's a (marked) revision 2 board where the AT board revisions probably started where C= left off. Don't ask me how or why it's in an AT case but it is. My guess is that all the C= stuff was shipped to AT and they assembled pieces to make money. Maybe it was sent as a replacement motherboard for a defective one when the 4000T was out of production. I don't know but I do have a C= 4000T motherboard in my AT case. Look closely at the pictures of the 4000T here:
http://bboah.claunia.com/a4000tc.html
Note that this appears to be a C= motherboard in an AT case also. Mine is more similar to that but a little different as I have noted. I think you have an AT/Escom motherboard in a C= case? The bankruptcy must have caused a lot of chaos.
Edit: My motherboard looks like this (same color):
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/a4000tmb_rev4_4.jpg
That board says "Amiga Technologies Copyright 1993" in the corner where mine says "C= Commodore Electronics Ltd. Copyright 1993". I suppose I could have an early revision AT motherboard but then my motherboard has a fix (wire running from a Zorro slot to a chip). The motherboards shouldn't have needed a fix if AT/Escom received the latest schematics. The handwritten date by the serial number on my motherboard is rather late for a C= though, so I don't know.
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Yellow motherboards - I see no yellow motherboards? My (green) motherboard has all the C= marks and also original Commodore ROMS and sits in the Original CBM case. Mine is pretty much identical to the motheboard in the article you link to.
Difference could be that mine is assembeld in germany for EU market.
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Check your ROMS - the rev4 version from AT - has a ROM that says Amiga 1995: http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/a4000tmb_rev4_4.jpg
You can also Check Ramsey on the AT version it also says Amiga 1995.
If you have Commodore ROMS 1994 - it's probably a CBM motherboard.
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http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/a4000tmb_rev4_4.jpg
WTH is up with the battery on that MB? LOL.
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Yellow motherboards - I see no yellow motherboards? My (green) motherboard has all the C= marks and also original Commodore ROMS and sits in the Original CBM case. Mine is pretty much identical to the motherboard in the article you link to.
It's green with yellow traces but I call that yellow. It's like a lot of the C= proto boards. Most C= motherboards are all green with green traces like yours.
Check your ROMS - the rev4 version from AT - has a ROM that says Amiga 1995: http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/a4000tmb_rev4_4.jpg
They have hand written labels "4.70 Byte 0" and "4.70 Byte 1" and look to be Eproms.
You can also Check Ramsey on the AT version it also says Amiga 1995.
No Amiga on mine. It has a "C= CSG" at the top and says "CBM 1989". It is a revision 7.
If you have Commodore ROMS 1994 - it's probably a CBM motherboard.
It's defiantly unusual and probably is an early C= version.
WTH is up with the battery on that MB? LOL.
It's just the stock soldered on lithium coin cell flipped upward. The 4000T came that way so leaking NiCad batteries are not a problem.
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Sounds like a Commodore to me. Will check my Ramsey later (if I can see it without removing the daugtherboard)
EDIT: Just checked mine (http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/3941c9bc-b5b8-4368-9802-d2a827dcb839.jpg) it's also a Commodore Ramsey.
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There were only a few chips that Amiga Technologies produced. Most of the chips in the machines they built were Commodore parts that were still kicking around. They also never updated the silkscreening on the 4000T boards - they all say Commodore.
Preproduction 4000T boards made at Commodore in 1993 (and shown at various shows) were yellow (like the Nyx prototype). Maybe some of those eventually ended up in users' hands?
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So only difference between some AT and CBM produced is the case
Matt_H;732081]There were only a few chips that Amiga Technologies produced. Most of the chips in the machines they built were Commodore parts that were still kicking around. They also never updated the silkscreening on the 4000T boards - they all say Commodore.
[/QUOTE]
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Nice info to have about the motherboards
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I think this (http://aminet.net/package/pix/illu/A4000T_HAM8) is one such preproduction machine. Can't verify at the moment since I can't find a HAM viewer for OSX!
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My CBM A4000T is serial number:
9000002
I acquired it several years ago as basically a "basket case" that needed much work. I have done very little with it as it is down my projects priority list quite a ways. I have most of the parts I will need to make it breathe again but it will not be 100% original when I am done but I don't really see a way around that. I am not even certain that all of the items that came with it are original.
The story I got when I bought it was that it had been originally owned by NewTek where it was used for Video Toaster development which makes sense because of the low serial number.
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Intersting low serial number - the Picture in BBoAH has serialnumber 9000001 - judging from that, yours is number 2 produced.
Anybody with high numbers? Mine is 200000073 (from the German assembly line)
My CBM A4000T is serial number:
9000002
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Hi dannyp1, can you post some photos please. Pictures of these CBM A4000T are severely lacking on the net!
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You can always check: http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=31
I've updated it with photos of mine - if you're looking for specific shots, just say which and I'll take some.
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Thanks! What I would like to see are highest pics of the case from various angles. Shots of the front with door open. Perhaps a side by side case comparison with the AT 4000T too?
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Took a few quick shots - if you need higher res. I'll post them to big book...
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Until now I've found 3 CBM serials in total -but it can't be that rare. If anybody is following a foreign speaking forum (french, Hungarian, german etc.) - could you please post a note about this thread?
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Highest serial received so far is 0093, so conclusion is we ares till below 100 produced.
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Received a bunch of serials (4 from Germany) - and the status is:
Highest unitnumber produced by Commodore in Germany: 131
Highest unitnumber produced by Commodore in USA: 43
If we don't find any higher serialnumbers (unit numbers) - conclusion still is that under 200 was produced and very few is known to exists today (10 in total).
It's very likely that we havn't found all owners yet - but we keep looking.
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My US serial ends in 1475
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1475..., that dosn't sound like a CBM serial number.
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Not sure why mine got removed from your list again.
It was 8511194365150001000030 and taken from above the zorro slots on the motherboard.
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And here are some pics ... yes, I know the board need some major cleaning and a recap :)
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Will re-add you serial. It got lost during revisoin of the list.
And here are some pics ... yes, I know the board need some major cleaning and a recap :)
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Thanks !
Kind of an oddball though .. not? The Amiga Technologies models don't have the serial number above the zorro slots plus their serial numbers start differently. Plus they don't have the triangle with exclamation sign up by where the battery is.
Braunschweig - 8 digits
20000030
20000073
20000093
20000099
20000112
20000128
20000131
West Chester - 7 digits
9000001
9000002
9000020
9000043
Mine
1000030 - 7 digits
I have no clue :)
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Looks similar to the enwp: German tank problem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem).
Gives for Braunschweig=148 West Chester=52 Mine=59 in total: 259
The Bayesian estimate would perhaps give a better result.
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I'm trying to estimate the number of Commodore Amiga 4000T produced (not the AT models), by collecting the serials. There's a thread here (http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/forum/yaf_postsm88_CBM-A4000T-serials.aspx#post88) where I enter the serials. You can post your serial here or post it directly in the thread at BBoAH.
FYI,
I just read in one of my Amiga magazines that C= produce 1000 of the original C= A4000T before Escom took over.
That was a quote from one of the Escom people talking about the new A4000T's that were going to be produced.
I probably should have note which magazine it was but I didn't. Probably Amazing Computing. If I find it again, I'll post the info here.
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I calculated the Bayesian estimate:
Braunschweig=156±31.225 West Chester=63±35.4965 Mine=0±0 in total: 219±66
Quite far from the Escom estimate. It's however at least in the right ballpark figure. Guess we need more data..
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Many of the Escon towers has a Commodore Motherboard. So it could be true that CBM produced 1000 (motherboards) before going down - however only very few of the propbably 1000 produced ended up in Commodore Cases (being at true CBM A4000T). As far as we know only around 200 ended up i CBM cases - the rest was put in Escom cases from around 1996.
FYI,
I just read in one of my Amiga magazines that C= produce 1000 of the original C= A4000T before Escom took over.
That was a quote from one of the Escom people talking about the new A4000T's that were going to be produced.
I probably should have note which magazine it was but I didn't. Probably Amazing Computing. If I find it again, I'll post the info here.
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As far as we know only around 200 ended up i CBM cases
How do we know that?