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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: CritAnime on February 17, 2013, 09:29:12 PM
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Pretty much as the title says. If I was to buy one purely for gaming from ADF's do I need the ARM chip and do I need the 4mb version? What are people who own this device honest opinions? I have given up on classic hardware because I don't have the time nor money. So I just want something I can plug into my big TV, via VGA, or run on my spare vga monitor.
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I'm HIGHLY passionate about the Minimig V1.1 board. It's awesome, period.
It's hardware and feels like hardware, it's very different from a software emulator. It feels like a souped-up Amiga 600 to me.
If you just want to use ADF images, you don't need the 4MB upgrade or the ARM controller.
You just need the basic board and ask Loriano (TheDaddy) about a case, because he makes incredible ones.
As an extra, even without ARM, you will get 2 disk drives and hard disk support (a 50 MB HDF will be pretty fast!). You can HD-install those games with crazy floppy numbers anyway (Monkey Island II comes to mind) :D
And yes: buying old hardware is wasting money when you can get totally new Amigas like the Minimig.
I've yet to find a game or program that doesn't work with current core releases.
Go for it, you won't regret (unless you consider getting MikeJ's FPGA ARCADE... but I've yet to see the new cores for it).
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Well I've had a Minimig since aCube released them back when the core couldn't even write to the ADF images. I helped to test the ARM controller back when Jakub was working wonders updating the core and I finally sent my board to AmigaKit to have them add the extra 2MB of RAM.
In my opinion, it is a fantastic bit of hardware and is worth every penny.
If you want to just play ADF games then the basic board will do and you'll have a maximum of 1.5MB of RAM that you can configure in different ways via the menu.
However, if you think that you might want extra RAM in the future then buy it with the RAM fitted because it isn't likely to be something you'll do yourself and finding someone else to do it (besides AmigaKit) is likely to prove to be impossible. With the extra RAM you can have a 1MB Chip 2.5MB Fast setup which should play just about any 68000 friendly OCS/ECS ADF game you want.
I wouldn't part with my ARM controller for all the tea in China. But, if you're on a budget then it is always something you can add later (just pull the PIC chip with a screwdriver and plug in the ARM board). Benefits of the ARM are:
Up to 2 fast HDF files which are great for WHDLoad (only a small HDF is usable without it)
Up to 4 emulated floppy drives (instead of 2)
Faster turbo mode
Easier configuration and updating (If you have the PIC you'll need a serial link to reflash the board while the ARM takes a file off the SD card).
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Hmm sounds kinda more like what I ultimately want. Does the arm processor give any extras apart from the ones mentioned.
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It can also enlarge your pennis, but that's an undocumented feature :D
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Pretty much as the title says. If I was to buy one purely for gaming from ADF's do I need the ARM chip and do I need the 4mb version? What are people who own this device honest opinions? I have given up on classic hardware because I don't have the time nor money. So I just want something I can plug into my big TV, via VGA, or run on my spare vga monitor.
4MB/ARM opens up the world of whdload gaming.
without the ARM your HDF would need to be pretty small... not 4GB like I have mine set up...
to me, worth it...
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It can also enlarge your pennis, but that's an undocumented feature :D
So that explains it! I thought I'd been standing too close to the microwave or something. :D
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So that explains it! I thought I'd been standing too close to the microwave or something. :D
no, that just causes your offspring to be mutated...
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no, that just causes your offspring to be mutated...
No wonder I have a ginger, left-handed daughter! I'm going to sue the microwave company. ;)
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Hmm sounds kinda more like what I ultimately want. Does the arm processor give any extras apart from the ones mentioned.
Seriously, what has been mentioned more than justifies the cost of the ARM.
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Seriously, what has been mentioned more than justifies the cost of the ARM.
I think the arm may also speed up the menus when you are scrolling through your ADFs... but its been a long time i have had the ARM installed so I can't recall.
No wonder I have a ginger, left-handed daughter! I'm going to sue the microwave company. ;)
naw, you are most likely shooting blanks from the microwave and CRT exposure. (ginger, left-handed mailman)
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I think the arm may also speed up the menus when you are scrolling through your ADFs... but its been a long time i have had the ARM installed so I can't recall.
Yep, it does do something to the menus too. Long file names plus access to folders IIRC.
naw, you are most likely shooting blanks from the microwave and CRT exposure. (ginger, left-handed mailman)
Dammit! I've been paying this child support for nothing. :(
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I've got a Minimig with 4 meg and the arm controller in a loriano case (or however you spell it)
I'm now in the process of selling all my Amiga classic gear (sold my Amiga CD32 last weekend and have 2 x Amiga 1200's to sell) as the Minimig is replacing them all.
For the Amiga 1200 and CD32 AGA stuff I'm going to be using WINUAE.
Frontier on the Minimig runs just as fast as an Amiga 1200 with a 030 running at 50mhz, I know this as I have compared the two side by side!
You'll love the minimig... classic platform on modern hardware!
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Where is a good place to get the ARM board from?
AmigaKit seems to have the MiniMig, and they do the 4MB upgrade, but not the ARM board.
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Where is a good place to get the ARM board from?
AmigaKit seems to have the MiniMig, and they do the 4MB upgrade, but not the ARM board.
aCube.
https://acube-systemsbiz.serversicuro.it/shop/en/6-minimig
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Where is a good place to get the ARM board from?
AmigaKit seems to have the MiniMig, and they do the 4MB upgrade, but not the ARM board.
says they have it in stock
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1132
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@Darrin: do you know if those 4MB Minimigs Acube is selling are 2MB ones with the piggyback 4MB mod, or do they have 4MB RAM chips on board?
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Frontier on the Minimig runs just as fast as an Amiga 1200 with a 030 running at 50mhz, I know this as I have compared the two side by side!
You'll love the minimig... classic platform on modern hardware!
I agree. Flight sims zip along on the Minimig with turbo mode engaged.
A Minimig with 4MB and ARM is like taking an A500+ and attaching: 68000 Accelerator, RAM card, HD interface with hard drive, 4 floppies, KS3.1 & 1.3 on a ROM switcher, Flicker Fixer and a PS2 mouse adapter.
The only thing you really lose is the parallel port, so anyone who wants to do some printing will need to rig up a serial link between the Minimig and a PC/Mac.
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@Darrin: do you know if those 4MB Minimigs Acube is selling are 2MB ones with the piggyback 4MB mod, or do they have 4MB RAM chips on board?
Sorry, I don't know. I assumed they were piggybacked, but you might want to email aCube to check.
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Cool thanks :)
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I'm ordering a Minimig in the next week or so and I am ordering it from aCube.
The 4 meg model is much cheaper from them rather than going through Amigakit. Plus they have the ARM boards where as I don't believe Amigakit does.
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I agree. Flight sims zip along on the Minimig with turbo mode engaged.
I never realized that a plain old Minimig had high speed chipram!
Did anyone post bustest results of a 4MB Minimig in turbo mode?
As a game designer I like to know how fast the chipram is.
A lot of games could benefit from faster chipram. Such as Dune 2, Stunt Car Racer and a lot of others.
A Minimig with 4MB and ARM is like taking an A500+ and attaching: 68000 Accelerator, RAM card, HD interface with hard drive, 4 floppies, KS3.1 & 1.3 on a ROM switcher, Flicker Fixer and a PS2 mouse adapter.
The only thing you really lose is the parallel port, so anyone who wants to do some printing will need to rig up a serial link between the Minimig and a PC/Mac.
Without the PAR: port you lose Joystick Port #3 and Joystick Port #4 so when ur friends come over to play 4 player games, they can't.
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I never realized that a plain old Minimig had high speed chipram!
Did anyone post bustest results of a 4MB Minimig in turbo mode?
I think the CHIP in Minimig 1.1 is 2X AGA in some tests I performed :)
I run my WB in 728x283x4BPP PAL which would run poorly on the real thing...
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Minimig with 4MB and ARM is like taking an A500+ and attaching: 68000 Accelerator, RAM card, HD interface with hard drive, 4 floppies, KS3.1 & 1.3 on a ROM switcher, Flicker Fixer and a PS2 mouse adapter.
I find its like having a A3000/25 speed wise its just annoying not having the 030 instruction set to go along with it :)
The 1.1 is a lot of fun, but I really need the fpga replay ASAP...
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I think the CHIP in Minimig 1.1 is 2X AGA in some tests I performed :)
I run my WB in 728x283x4BPP PAL which would run poorly on the real thing...
:roflmao: "poorly". It would run completely horribly slowly on a real A500! I know, I tried it a few times.
But with superspeed chipram that changes things completely!
It also means that certain games, which would slow down when a lot of enemies were on the screen, could now be played fast and smooth.
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I find its like having a A3000/25 speed wise its just annoying not having the 030 instruction set to go along with it :)
The 1.1 is a lot of fun, but I really need the fpga replay ASAP...
Yep, the only limitations that affect me are the lack of AGA and the inability to run OS3.9. However, I find the OS3.1 install of ClassicWB on my HDF more than satisfactory.
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Yep, the only limitations that affect me are the lack of AGA and the inability to run OS3.9. However, I find the OS3.1 install of ClassicWB on my HDF more than satisfactory.
I really don't even use 3.9 on my 1200 with 060, so no major loss there.
really, the single biggest limitation with 1.1 is lack of option for ethernet.
also I'm kind of limited by the fact that my newer TVs don't work so well with 50HZ VGA PAL...
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Does Minimig output 50 or 60 HZ ?
Too bad about the parallel port really. No 4 player games...
EDIT:
Maybe my Hz question is a bit unclear.
Can Minimig be used with 60Hz TFT monitors ? Or do you need a 50Hz capable screen, like a LCD TV ?
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Does Minimig output 50 or 60 HZ ?
yes :)
50 for PAL and 60 for NTSC
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So what happens when you try to get PAL on a PC TFT monitor ?
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Yep, the only limitations that affect me are the lack of AGA and the inability to run OS3.9. However, I find the OS3.1 install of ClassicWB on my HDF more than satisfactory.
I wouldn't mind a nice classic wb hdf suitable for the minimig...
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A question for you MiniMig owners -
Since the MiniMig is a re-implementation (reverse engineering) of the original Amiga, are there still any incompatibilities?
Didn't they use some of the knowledge and understanding of the Amiga gleaned from UAE development in the development of the MiniMig?
I understand it is FPGA hardware, but is it ABSOLUTELY 100% compatible with an actual A500, or are there still some things you can throw at it which doesn't behave right and needs to be improved?
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So what happens when you try to get PAL on a PC TFT monitor ?
IF Monitor = RIPOFF THEN
NothingHappensHAHAHA
ELSE_IF Monitor <> RIPOFF THEN
YouGetPicture
END_IF
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He he :D What I'm trying to find out is if the Minimig is doing the same kind of magic as an Indy flicker fixer scandoubler, for example, does. Will it work anywhere, or do you have to pick screens carefuly ?
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I would hope so. I used a Indi ECS with the monitor I intend to use for the minimig and had no issues showing either 50hz or 60hz.
Ok another question. I have seen the v2 Minimig on another site. I take it this is a prototype.
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So what happens when you try to get PAL on a PC TFT monitor ?
on my 32" samsung TV I get a picture, but its cut-off. On my LG 65" I get nothing.
works perfectly on my old viewsonic, but thats 720 and its old and the color is nowhere near as good as the newer ones.
i forgot to mention that someone said that they got a 56HZ PAL screen going(when 50 would not work) by overclocking everything, but I don't know what is involved, and then it throws off the timing, etc...
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Does Minimig output 50 or 60 HZ ?
Too bad about the parallel port really. No 4 player games...
EDIT:
Maybe my Hz question is a bit unclear.
Can Minimig be used with 60Hz TFT monitors ? Or do you need a 50Hz capable screen, like a LCD TV ?
It's the same as a real Amiga with a bog-standard Scan Doubler. PAL modes will require 50Hz and NTSC 60Hz. So, CRTs are fine, but be careful which LCD you choose. I use Viewsonic LCD monitors and some other brand LCD TV which work find with 50Hz modes.
There was an old core waaaaaaaaaay back that promoted 50Hz to 60Hz, but it was abandoned for some reason.
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Oh... just looked at the specs for my monitor and it says v-sync is 56-75Hz
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I wouldn't mind a nice classic wb hdf suitable for the minimig...
That can be easily arranged, but you'll have to wait 4 weeks until I can get home. ;)
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What I'm trying to find out is if the Minimig is doing the same kind of magic as an Indy flicker fixer scandoubler, for example, does.
No, it doesn't.
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I would hope so. I used a Indi ECS with the monitor I intend to use for the minimig and had no issues showing either 50hz or 60hz.
Ok another question. I have seen the v2 Minimig on another site. I take it this is a prototype.
Was it a blue coloured board? If it is the one I'm thinking of then it is basically the same as the v1.1 except it has headers for the ports (makes them easy to extend internally) and a extra video out option. It can use the same cores and ARM as the v1.1.
I think it had a very limited production run and finding one in the wild would be like tracking down a Yeti.
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Oh... just looked at the specs for my monitor and it says v-sync is 56-75Hz
Sometimes those monitor specs are not 100% and you can get lucky.
If I was buying a new monitor though I'd look for 50Hz.
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Was it a blue coloured board? If it is the one I'm thinking of then it is basically the same as the v1.1 except it has headers for the ports (makes them easy to extend internally) and a extra video out option. It can use the same cores and ARM as the v1.1.
I think it had a very limited production run and finding one in the wild would be like tracking down a Yeti.
I am thinking I won't be able to own one anyway as my monitor probably wont take it :rant: although it played fine with the indi ecs. I don't get it :rant:
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I am thinking I won't be able to own one anyway as my monitor probably wont take it :rant: although it played fine with the indi ecs. I don't get it :rant:
The Indivision ECS (and AGA) promotes 50Hz to 60Hz as part of the design. That's why they're such good flicker fixers to get as you can use them on just about any LCD. Older Amiga flicker fixers have always had this problem (at least with cheapo USA monitors that forget that there are other standards out there). ;)
What brand/model monitor do you have?
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No, it doesn't.
Oh, that's too bad.
Still, I have a 50Hz capable PAL TV, so one more trick up my sleeve :D
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A quick search on Tiger Direct popped up these 50Hz models:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6515376&CatId=4420
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7199459&CatId=4420
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6052506&CatId=2775
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7199458&CatId=2775
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3184326&CatId=4420
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7455019&CatId=5469
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The Indivision ECS (and AGA) promotes 50Hz to 60Hz as part of the design. That's why they're such good flicker fixers to get as you can use them on just about any LCD. Older Amiga flicker fixers have always had this problem (at least with cheapo USA monitors that forget that there are other standards out there). ;)
What brand/model monitor do you have?
LG Flatron W2043SE.
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LG Flatron W2043SE.
Yeah, it looks bad. I found the manual:
http://www.manualowl.com/m/LG/W2043SE-PF/Manual/318228s
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Why isn't there an option to run PAL at 60Hz?
I really don't care if it speeds things up by a 20%, I just want to use a standard 60Hz monitor.
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Why isn't there an option to run PAL at 60Hz?
I really don't care if it speeds things up by a 20%, I just want to use a standard 60Hz monitor.
It is part of the authentic "Amiga Experience". Half the fun of being an Amiga owner is knowing that trying to connect an off-the-shelf monitor is a pain in the ass. :D
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Well suppose I am out of the race then :( bummer.
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Looks like Viewsonic has some of the most easily accessible monitors in the US that are 50hz friendly.
However if you play a pal game on them is the scrolling smooth? I have seen some tvs that internally upscale 50 to 60 resulting in jerky scrolling.
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Looks like Viewsonic has some of the most easily accessible monitors in the US that are 50hz friendly.
However if you play a pal game on them is the scrolling smooth? I have seen some tvs that internally upscale 50 to 60 resulting in jerky scrolling.
I'm probably the worst person to ask about that sort of thing. I watch old 4:3 ratio TV programs stretched on my widescreen and they look OK to me. ;)
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My ViewSonic monitor is a normal monitor. This means it is not a RIPOFF. This means it accepts PAL input signals. And no it does not upscale it to 60 hz. That would be horrible. If some other model does that then yuck! Don't buy it! (unless there is an option to turn that off).
Everything looks normal on my ViewSonic. It actually looks better than my C= 1950 Multisync and my C= 1960 Multisync.
My ViewSonic displays PAL. My ViewSonic displays NTSC. My ViewSonic displays PC signals. I have everything connected to this one monitor with a KVM switch.
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My ViewSonic monitor is a normal monitor. This means it is not a RIPOFF. This means it accepts PAL input signals. And no it does not upscale it to 60 hz. That would be horrible. If some other model does that then yuck! Don't buy it! (unless there is an option to turn that off).
Everything looks normal on my ViewSonic. It actually looks better than my C= 1950 Multisync and my C= 1960 Multisync.
My ViewSonic displays PAL. My ViewSonic displays NTSC. My ViewSonic displays PC signals. I have everything connected to this one monitor with a KVM switch.
Be aware though, some Viewsonics (mostly the dirt cheap ones) do state a minimum of 56Hz so do check first before you buy.
I bought a couple of 1920x1080 widescreen models because I usually connect a PC to the DVI connector and a Minimig to the VGA input. Saves deskspace.
Oh, and on my A4000 I use one with the RTG Radeon attached to the DVI and the Indivision AGA attached to the VGA. Switching between modes is a case of pressing the button on the front, or it switches back to native automatically if you exit all of the RTG screens.
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Heeey monitor buddies :D I have a Viewsonic too :) It's VX2235wm. But still haven't tested the 50Hz feature. I'm not even sure what is the output from my Indy ECS :confused:
I am quite angry with Viewsonic for not making new larger (24, 26, 27) screens with 1920x1200 resolution. They seem focused on 16:9 ratio.
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Awww I feel out of the club with my crappy LG...... This sucks I can't afford a new monitor and the Minimig. Even my LG 50 inch lcd won't support it on VGA. If it was any other input then sure but the VGA is 56Hz - 75Hz.
Wait... isn't there a vga cable for the minimig that converst it to scart? If so what kind of quality should I get out of it. would it be cleaner than say a classic miggy.
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Awww I feel out of the club with my crappy LG...... This sucks I can't afford a new monitor and the Minimig. Even my LG 50 inch lcd won't support it on VGA. If it was any other input then sure but the VGA is 56Hz - 75Hz.
Wait... isn't there a vga cable for the minimig that converst it to scart? If so what kind of quality should I get out of it. would it be cleaner than say a classic miggy.
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=919
you can also set the jumper for 15HZ video and you should be good to go.
i have not seen the quality, but I'd imagine it will look just like RGB.
Also don't forget the LG TV will run NTSC stuff.... just the PAL stuff won't work...
good luck...
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SCART saves the day :)
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http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=919
you can also set the jumper for 15HZ video and you should be good to go.
i have not seen the quality, but I'd imagine it will look just like RGB.
Also don't forget the LG TV will run NTSC stuff.... just the PAL stuff won't work...
good luck...
My LG tv will do 50Hz and 60Hz if it's running a TV signal. I know because I have a ntsc SNES I use on it. But for some reason the VGA port will only do 56Hz to 75Hz.
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All 4mb minimigs have piggybacked ram. The latest core works on both arm and non arm.
The non arm minimig will do almost everything the arm minimig does, but slower.
We have both minimig and arm controllers instock. To answer price query, acube dont list vat price.
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Pretty much as the title says. If I was to buy one purely for gaming from ADF's do I need the ARM chip and do I need the 4mb version? What are people who own this device honest opinions? I have given up on classic hardware because I don't have the time nor money. So I just want something I can plug into my big TV, via VGA, or run on my spare vga monitor.
Hi,
Well I am going to get ready to get flamed by everyone here, but if you want a good cheap, ultra fast, Amiga, and you have a MODERN DAY PC (by which I mean 2.4 ghz or faster) then you should try Amiga Forever, So far it has played just about every game I have put in it and it is running my main programs such as Pen Pal, DPaint, Soliton, Megaball, doom, Zool etc. and also I can call up cd 32 and play CD32 cd's, or I can call up CDTV and play CDTV games, it can be an A1000, A500, A2000, A3000, A1200, A4000, CDTV, and CD32, but it can't be a MiniMig or MorphOS, but it can run AROS. It is super fast, Super Cool, and doesn't give me any problems because it automatically detects NTSC or PAL and makes modifications to run that program.
Why anyone would waste a lot of money buying new hardware to run old obsolete programs is beyond me, it is totally senseless, crazy and absolutely LOONY. I enjoy my Amiga A500, A1200, A3000, A4000, and CD32 and even my C64, when I just want to go back in time and play with an old obsolete computer, but I would rather burn up a PC after all there are plenty of them and they are cheap too, plus as a side benefit if you have a new power house computer, you can play all the new PC games on the market.
SO MY THOUGHTS on new expensive hardware to play old games.
You are all loony.
smerf
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You could also do without paying for a front end for UAE if money is a concern.
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I do want to buy a Mini-mig... 4meg with ARM board etc
To me it will be the machine setup beside my rebuilt c64 system, all sharing same tv/monitor and desk. Mini-mig seems ideal to buy/use compared to an emulated system.
There is an unidentifiable specialness to use Amiga software on real Amiga hardware, I will include mini-mig in this :)
Az
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I liked my first 2MB Minimig that much I purchased a second 4MB Minimig and ARM board to go with it.
So now I keep the first 2MB Minimig I purchased connected to my old large CRT TV and us it to play ADF games and watch old Amiga Demo's.
I have the second on connected to the my Hitachi TFT panel and use to play WHDLoad games and other games like Monkey Island 2 which are bested played from hard disk.
I have also connected them both together in the past to play Lotus2 over a serial link which works well too :-)
My Minimigs work that well I don't really use my A1200's very much these days, as I generally need to spend to much time getting them working again after each time they are move, were as I can pack my Minimigs up and take them round to a friends and connect them up to a TV or monitor and have them setup and ready to play in just a few minutes.
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@smerf: You have no idea of how the Minimig feels. I have several Amigas here (A600, A1200), the Minimig and UAE wich I can configure myself because I have a barely normal brain and I already paid for my KS ROMS when I was 10.
From UAE to a physical Amiga, the difference is enormous: even if I use 50Hz modes and I get perfect smooth 50Hz scroll in demos and games, UAE feels laggy, something's not right. I have shown this solution to friends and they all thing the same: it's not the same, there's a difference in control input, a noticeable input delay that affects games. Occasionally, there are also desyncs in the image: it's very hard to have a system with the bare minimal services running and configured priorities so UAE has the CPU all the time, but I have souch a system: a dedicated Linux system built from scratch where every kernel module and every service is put there by me and I know when they take over CPU. But even so, there's the ocasional frame desync: it can take half and hour, but it WILL appear.
Now don't take me wrong: UAE is an awesome program to interface with the Amiga HDDs in FFS format and with the Minimig HDFs. It's great to test whdload slaves, and even to compile C programs very fast with SASC.
But it's NOT an Amiga. It doesn't feel like one: it feels like an emulated one running inside another OS, wich can be useful for some needs, but that's all. It's a tool, so to say.
The Minimig however FEELS like an Amiga. It's as snappy, elegant, responsive and precise as the Amiga. It's light, small and it won't drain a thermonuclear plan to run Lemmings, as the lame X86 noisy pigs do. It drains a ridiculously small amount of power and it feels RIGHT.
It's NOT that expensive, you just sum everything it has included:
-A FAST 68000 on board, actually slightly waster that a 030 @ 50mHz in TURBO mode. It can run at stock 7'58mHz for perfect CPU compatibility.
-Full ECS chipset.
-3.5 MB of RAM.
-Virtually endless HDD space.
-Perfect scandoubler: fully VGA-compatible chipset modes!
And count it as new hardware, totally new: no aging overpriced hardware from the 80's with failing caps some idiot will try to sell you based on it's "retro and rare" state.
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And it has an incredible amount of ram too.
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@smerf: You have no idea of how the Minimig feels. I have several Amigas here (A600, A1200), the Minimig and UAE wich I can configure myself because I have a barely normal brain and I already paid for my KS ROMS when I was 10.
From UAE to a physical Amiga, the difference is enormous: even if I use 50Hz modes and I get perfect smooth 50Hz scroll in demos and games, UAE feels laggy, something's not right. I have shown this solution to friends and they all thing the same: it's not the same, there's a difference in control input, a noticeable input delay that affects games. Occasionally, there are also desyncs in the image: it's very hard to have a system with the bare minimal services running and configured priorities so UAE has the CPU all the time...
That's strange. I have been using WinUAE with the most intensive productivity applications (and the occasional game) for the past four years and have never noticed any of the above symptoms. I have really put UAE through its paces with super-hi-res graphics editing and also MIDI music work (where timing is absolutely critical). Most of the Amiga software I use in WinUAE requires a 68020 or even a 68040 CPU, etc. at it works extremely well.
This is all on a 2.8GHz single core PC. Trying to emulate a "simple" 68000 A500 is, in comparison, even easier on my system. If you are having problems, you should try WinUAE, I hear it's the most mature of the UAE versions. Also, often the problems you mention can be easily and permanently fixed by simple tweaks in the UAE settings.
I love real hardware Amigas, but I would have to say that WinUAE is frikkin' awesome! I can render a ray-traced picture in seconds that would take minutes or hours on my 68040 Amiga. Other than that, I'm not sure I would be able to tell if I was using a real Amiga or WinUAE if it was put to a blind test.
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That's strange. I have been using WinUAE with the most intensive productivity applications (and the occasional game) for the past four years and have never noticed any of the above symptoms. I have really put UAE through its paces with super-hi-res graphics editing and also MIDI music work (where timing is absolutely critical). Most of the Amiga software I use in WinUAE requires a 68020 or even a 68040 CPU, etc. at it works extremely well.
This is all on a 2.8GHz single core PC. Trying to emulate a "simple" 68000 A500 is, in comparison, even easier on my system. If you are having problems, you should try WinUAE, I hear it's the most mature of the UAE versions. Also, often the problems you mention can be easily and permanently fixed by simple tweaks in the UAE settings.
I love real hardware Amigas, but I would have to say that WinUAE is frikkin' awesome! I can render a ray-traced picture in seconds that would take minutes or hours on my 68040 Amiga. Other than that, I'm not sure I would be able to tell if I was using a real Amiga or WinUAE if it was put to a blind test.
The real test is when you try and connect that 9 pin joystick. ;)
I've used WinUAE from the start and I have 4 FPGA based "Amigas". The FPGA machines feal "real", with UAE I'm always aware of the fact it is an emulator sat ontop of another OS, especially when I boot for the first time:
PC: Power on, BIOS, blank screen, Windows, more Windows, more Windows, blank screen, Windows but still loading, looks like it has finsihed loading but hasn't, click WinUAE, wait, config screen, select config, wait, wait, Workbench! (and I still can't plug in my joystick as my new PC doesn't have a PCI slot and even if it did the drivers wouldn't work).
Minimig: Power on, text appears but vanishes before you can read it, black screen, Workbench! Oh, and my joysticks fit! :D
Quite why I need to run something that requires a 400w PSU to play Lemmings is beyond me.
I use WinUAE mainly to backup and configure my SD Cards for the FPGA machines.
At the end of the day, it is down to personal choice. If you have the spare cash then the FPGA machines are a great option.
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If you are having problems, you should try WinUAE, I hear it's the most mature of the UAE versions.
I don't use Windows programs for personal reasons. Needless to say, I don't own a Windows machine and nevel will. No one in my house does. We all use Linux for daily computing.
That said, I use FS-UAE, wich is a port of WinUAE to standard libraries (OpenGL, etc) vs privative scumm (DirectX), based on the latest stable sources.
This is all on a 2.8GHz single core PC. Trying to emulate a "simple" 68000 A500 is, in comparison, even easier on my system.
You're missing the point. It's not a throughput problem, but a timming problem: on a Minimig, Amiga software runs ON the hardware: no undelying software, abstraction layers in form of backend, system libraries, etc... On an emulated enviroment, Amiga software runs on top of a HUGE pile of layers: the Amiga emulator, system libraries wich rely on different backends, etc... Even if you have RAW power, you don't get fine-grained input response. There's an inherent delay in software emulation wich hardware reimplementation (FPGAs) don't have, just like real hardware.
It's not about raw power or "I can render in seconds": it's about "I press a button on mu USB joystick and it takes WAY longer to be processed by the emulator+variours abstraction layers+os libs+kernel than it takes on real Amiga hardware, be it ASIC (Amiga 500, 1200) or FPGA (Minimig).
Quite why I need to run something that requires a 400w PSU to play Lemmings is beyond me.
Oh, and this, of course :)
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Oh, and on those REALLY bad days...
PC: Power on, BIOS, blank screen, Windows, more Windows, more Windows, blank screen, Windows but still loading, looks like it has finished loading but hasn't, popup: "Windows has finsihed updating and needs to restart your computer", reset, BIOS, blank screen, Windows, more Windows, more Windows, blank screen, Windows but still loading, looks like it has finished loading but hasn't, popup: "Java update available, click to download", popup: "Flash update available, click to download", click WinUAE, wait, nothing happens because you notive your virus checker is updating and dragging the whole machine down, make a cup of tea, config screen, select config, wait, wait, Workbench! (and I still can't plug in my joystick as my new PC doesn't have a PCI slot and even if it did the drivers wouldn't work).
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The real test is when you try and connect that 9 pin joystick. ;)
Got that covered! I've made an interface for 9-pin joysticks out of an old Logitec USB controller pad. I can plug my Wico bat joystick (or any other Atari 2600 type joystick) into my PC and play away Amiga games on WinUAE! It's great!
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You're missing the point. It's not a throughput problem, but a timming problem...it's about "I press a button on mu USB joystick and it takes WAY longer to be processed by the emulator+variours abstraction layers+os libs+kernel than it takes on real Amiga hardware, be it ASIC (Amiga 500, 1200) or FPGA (Minimig).
I did understand your point - and I do know it's running on lots of abstraction layers, but I don't experience any noticeable latency in input when using WinUAE. Believe me, when I play a MIDI controller keyboard - if there was any latency in playing the notes I would certainly be peeved (when I press a key on the MIDI controller keyboard it has to go through Windows--->WinUAE/emulated Amiga---->Bars&Pipes pipeline----->backout to Windows MIDI handler----->to external MIDI sound module). If there was any latency in that chain (and latency is very noticeable when you're playing music) I wouldn't be using WinUAE. I've also played games under WinUAE with my Wico bat joystick connected to the USB interface I made and haven't had a problem.
I'm not trying to slag real Amigas - they are awesome and I would have bought a Natami if they had ever actually been made, but since they were not I was eventually forced to go UAE against my will and to my surprise I ended up loving it. Prior to that I was convinced no Amiga emulator could ever be equivalent to the real thing.
I'm not sure what would be causing a noticeable lag on your system.
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The only latency issues I've had with WinUAE involved the mouse pointer, and I seem to recall adjusting some settings and having no further problems.
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I did understand your point - and I do know it's running on lots of abstraction layers, but I don't experience any noticeable latency in input when using WinUAE.
I would imagine there is less latency between midi input & output than there is between joystick & video. With video you can only send a complete frame at a time.
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I have 9pin joystick ports in my pc via catweasel. Even the 3,5 drive clicks as in the real machine.
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I have 9pin joystick ports in my pc via catweasel. Even the 3,5 drive clicks as in the real machine.
I had that once. Now try using it on a PC with no PCI slots running Windows 7. ;)
The Catweasel is going in my X1000.
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Anyone else who finds that they can't use their catweisel in their new PC are cordially invited to offer it for sale to me.
I've wanted one of these for my Pc and my Mac for awhile.
Hopefully Jens will eventually release a sucessor.
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There is something unique about *real* hardware that even the best emulation never seems to quite live up to 100%. WinUAE is awesome, it works really, really well all things considered, but it still feels just a bit "off" at times.
There are other advantages to the Minimig and similar modern clones. One is power consumption, IIRC the Minimig draws about 4 Watts, compared to 150-300W for a modern desktop PC. It's compact, silent, and can output 15 kHz RGB for a really authentic experience. Not only that, it's effectively a reasonably well equipped FPGA dev board, having a fairly roomy 400K gate Spartan3, 2MB of fast SRAM, VGA, stereo delta-sigma DAC for audio, and a bunch of IO. It's possible to implement a number of other retro computers on the same hardware, as well as some classic arcade games.
It's not for everybody, but it's darn cool. My only gripes (from the standpoint of building my own from scratch) is that the board layout uses a really odd SD card socket that I ended up having to order from Farnell in the UK since I couldn't find anything else with the same pad arrangement. It's an amazingly cool feeling to build an entire computer from a bare PCB and see it actually work.
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There is something unique about *real* hardware that even the best emulation never seems to quite live up to 100%. WinUAE is awesome, it works really, really well all things considered, but it still feels just a bit "off" at times....
Since my only Amiga (at current) is an A2000, I personally think WinUAE runs better than *real* hardware.
But, on the original topic of the thread, the MiniMig was cool when it was released, but now I'd prefer one of Mike's systems.