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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Dandolo on February 13, 2013, 01:58:21 PM
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Hi all, i'm new on this forum band i am searching help to install my new BSC tandem into an Amiga 2000 with kick 1.3. This machine mount 6 MB tot, a2286, gvp SCSI with 43 MB HD. I' ve tried to install tandem to control via IDE a CF reader but without results: after copied file 'AT' into Expansion drawer of workbench and rebooted as reported on manuale, nothing happen!CF reader si feeded by power cable and CF is already formatted in FAT95 (and regularly recognized by amiga1200). Anyone has experience in similar config? Help!:crazy:
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The AT file is the general driver for the IDE bus. I am not sure if it automatically mounts partitions. And even if it does, it probably only mounts Amiga partitions and surely not a FAT32 partition. In order to mount the FAT32 partition you need to install a file system which can read FAT32 and runs on Kick 1.3. I doubt that FAT95 will run on Kick 1.3. And you need a mountlist entry. On WB 3.1 you have CF0 in Devs/DosDrivers. For Kick 1.3 you have to add the contents of CF0 to Devs:Mountlist.
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Hi Thomas, ok but the manual says that the only thing to do it's copy AT into "Expansion"; well ... I don't know how to create mountlist: could you help me? I've tried to copy Mountlist in dh0:Devs/, renamed it to "CF0" but I don't have idea how to configure all the parameters indicated (terrible :rant:, I don't understand meaning of anyone of these!I know only that my CF is has size=2 GB ). It is necessary point to a specific device (device=????)? Then, if FAT95 isn't supported under kick 1.3 maybe will be necessary to format CF into WinUAE?Any ideas will be much appreciated!!!
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Hi Thomas, ok but the manual says that the only thing to do it's copy AT into "Expansion"; well ...
From their point of view this is true. The AT file is all they need to provide. Everything else is the task of other software vendors.
I don't know how to create mountlist: could you help me? I've tried to copy Mountlist in dh0:Devs/, renamed it to "CF0"
This is exactly the opposite of what you have to do. In WB 3.1 you have a seperate dosdriver for each device. In WB 1.3 all devices are described in one file called mountlist. The file has to be named mountlist, you should not rename it.
Copy CF0 from your A1200 to the A2000 and open it in a text editor. Then open mountlist in a text editor, too. Now copy the contents from CF0 to the end of mountlist. Surround it by CF0: at the top and # at the bottom, just like all the other entries.
Device=compactflash.device needs to be changed to what the tandem needs, probably tandemat.device (the manual should contain the right name).
Filesystem=l:fat95 also needs to be changed. I think MSH works on Kick 1.3: http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/MSH-1.58
From all the files in the archives you should only need MessyFileSystem.
However, you should read the manual of FAT95 because it describes very detailed what the entries in the mounlist are for. I could imagine that the "automatic" partition mounting of FAT95 does not work with MSH, so you might need to enter correct values for Heads, BlocksPerTrack, LowCyl and HighCyl.
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From their point of view this is true. The AT file is all they need to provide. Everything else is the task of other software vendors.
This is exactly the opposite of what you have to do. In WB 3.1 you have a seperate dosdriver for each device. In WB 1.3 all devices are described in one file called mountlist. The file has to be named mountlist, you should not rename it.
Copy CF0 from your A1200 to the A2000 and open it in a text editor. Then open mountlist in a text editor, too. Now copy the contents from CF0 to the end of mountlist. Surround it by CF0: at the top and # at the bottom, just like all the other entries.
Device=compactflash.device needs to be changed to what the tandem needs, probably tandemat.device (the manual should contain the right name).
Filesystem=l:fat95 also needs to be changed. I think MSH works on Kick 1.3: http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/MSH-1.58
From all the files in the archives you should only need MessyFileSystem.
However, you should read the manual of FAT95 because it describes very detailed what the entries in the mounlist are for. I could imagine that the "automatic" partition mounting of FAT95 does not work with MSH, so you might need to enter correct values for Heads, BlocksPerTrack, LowCyl and HighCyl.
Thanks a Lot Thomas, I've followed your suggestions and tried to mount CF0: , now something happens! Let's say ... when I try to access to CF0: workbench says: "Error reading CF0: Insert FMS disk". I suppose that there is some problems with the parameters in mountlist (I have merely copied the file CF0 from A1200 and changed Filesystem to MessyFileSystem and Device to fmsdisk.device). If I give "cancel" to system request a new disk is mounted in Workbench called "Unnamed" and I can access on it (write, format, etc.) but when I dismounted it and tried to access on it with a PC or A1200, all previous operations done in A2000 are lost: it sounds like never done! maybe it's a file system problems. Do you have an example of moulist parameters for a compact flash card of 2 Gb? Now I start to find some explanations for the FAT95 filesystem. Now I know that Tandem works and it's only problem of configuration!
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fmsdisk.device is for accessing virtual floppy disk images (ADF files). It does not access your CF card.
To mount the CF card you have to use the device which points to the Tandem controller. By examining the installation disk I would say that it is oktagon.device.
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Bad Luck :-((
nothing else happens. I thought the CF was read by amiga while the only thing i have done was mounting a fake disk (virtual disk).
I tried with tandemcd.device, tandemcd_come.device, tandemcd_pcmcia and finally, oktagon.device in mountlist ... nothing happens when I try to access to CF0:
Grrr...horrible device ...
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Please download http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/downloads/tsgui.lha and unpack it to your harddrive. Run TSGUI and choose "select raw device" from the menu. As device select oktagon.device and as unit select your CF card. Click on Ok, then choose "create mountlist" from the menu. Select a file name and attach the resulting file here so I can see the details. (The created file cannot be used without some adjustments.)
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Please download http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/downloads/tsgui.lha and unpack it to your harddrive. Run TSGUI and choose "select raw device" from the menu. As device select oktagon.device and as unit select your CF card. Click on Ok, then choose "create mountlist" from the menu. Select a file name and attach the resulting file here so I can see the details. (The created file cannot be used without some adjustments.)
Thanks Thomas, this evening I'll download the progs and give you the info. Some doubts: I have installed the tandem card into a bridge slot (into the 100 pin zorro II amiga side), it is correct or this slots could be used only with bridgeboards? The cf reader is linked with a IDE cable in the last terminal (the higher in the channel), setted as "master" and the feeding is done by an electric cable derived from floppy (PC molex type: black/yellow/yellow/black): well, why there isn't led activity? CF cards (newer type sandisk ultra 4 GB 200X) are correct or it's possible HW incompatibility?
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Not sure what you mean by "bridge slot". Every Zorro slot should be usable for AmigaOS IMHO. The bridge board connects one Zorro slot to the ISA slot next to it so that the ISA slots are usable by the PC operating system. AmigaOS normally has no access to the ISA slots. Only with software tricks AmigaOS can access an ISA network card through the bridge board.
LED activity is dependent on the CF adapter. Some CF adapters don't drive the LED at all. With some other adapters the LED is on all the time. If you are in doubt you should first try with a real harddrive.
For power cables actually I only know red/black/black/yellow. But colors shouldn't matter. Important is voltage 5V/GND/GND/12V. If you mix up 12V and 5V or + and GND, your device will be destroyed quite soon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molex
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Ok, I understand question regarding Led activity; for the Bridge slot I'm referring to one of the two slot that could receive bridgeboards: I've placed the Tandem Card there because I've free only one of this and also I've thought that was the same of other slots! For the electrical feeding I think it's ok, because there's no mixing of current, because cables are straight from the molex HD type to Floppy type, no crossing. CF removed from Amiga 2000 and placed on Amiga 1200/PC continue to function. I don't understand, instead, why I can't use PrepCard on A1200: I've always message: "cannot format: write protected". CF cards doesn't have write protection, as I know!
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PrepCard can only prepare SRAM cards. To prepare a CF card you need to use HDToolbox or similar (although I am not sure if compactflash.device supports partitioned harddisks, it's more likely meant to be used with mounlists/dosdrivers only).
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Please download http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/downloads/tsgui.lha and unpack it to your harddrive. Run TSGUI and choose "select raw device" from the menu. As device select oktagon.device and as unit select your CF card. Click on Ok, then choose "create mountlist" from the menu. Select a file name and attach the resulting file here so I can see the details. (The created file cannot be used without some adjustments.)
Done, after selected oktagon.device, tsgui reply: "Cannot determine HDD size". I don't know why. Inside devs/mountlist I have copied this item from A1200:
...
CF0:
Device = oktagon.device
FileSystem = l:FastFileSystem (I have tried also MessyFileSystem, nothing change)
Unit = 0
Flags = 0
LowCyl = 0
HighCyl = 0
Surfaces = 1
BlockPerTrack = 1
BlockSize = 512
BufferSize = 20
BufMemType = 1
BootPri = 0
StackSize = 4096
Priority = 5
GlobVec = -1
DosType = 0x46415401
#
After rebooting I have also launched oktagonmount (it seems necessary to charge oktagon.device correctly, otherwise Tsgui doesn't show this device as possible choice under raw menu); then launched CLI command: Mount CF0:
Nothing compare; if I try to accesso to CF with cd CF0:, OS says "Can't find cf0:"
I've tried with 2 CF brand TakeMS (2 Gb) and 1 CF brand Sandisk Ultra (4 Gb) all news, purchased this week, boh?!?
:madashell:
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Please connect the CF card to your A1200, run TSGUI, click on CF0 in the list and select "create mountlist" from the menu. Attach the resulting file here.
FastFileSystem won't be able to read a FAT disk. You need MessyFileSystem if the card is formatted as FAT.
And as I said above you need to put valid values into LowCyl, HighCyl, Surfaces and BlocksPerTrack. TSGUI on the A1200 should be able to read these values and save them to the mountlist.
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Please connect the CF card to your A1200, run TSGUI, click on CF0 in the list and select "create mountlist" from the menu. Attach the resulting file here.
FastFileSystem won't be able to read a FAT disk. You need MessyFileSystem if the card is formatted as FAT.
And as I said above you need to put valid values into LowCyl, HighCyl, Surfaces and BlocksPerTrack. TSGUI on the A1200 should be able to read these values and save them to the mountlist.
Ok, done and placed correct parameters showed by tsgui into mountlist (CF 4 Gb) and reinserted MessyfileSystem in dh0:l, but after mounting and trying to access to CF0, system crash. Here you are the file generated by Tsgui:[ATTACH]2693[/ATTACH]
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Is this mountlist correct?
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Done, after selected oktagon.device, tsgui reply: "Cannot determine HDD size".
At which unit number is the CF card?
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Is this mountlist correct?
This might be a working mountlist entry for Kick 1.3:
CF0:
FileSystem = L:MessyFileSystem
StackSize = 8192
GlobVec = -1
Device = oktagon.device
Unit = 0
Flags = 0
BlockSize = 512
Surfaces = 1
BlocksPerTrack = 1
Reserved = 2
Interleave = 0
LowCyl = 0
HighCyl = 7812819
Buffers = 25
BufMemType = 1
DosType = 0x4D534400
Mount = 1
#
Except for the unit number which must match the actual position of the CF card reader.
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At which unit number is the CF card?
It's number 0, I've tried other number (until 7) but message was the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandolo (http://www.amiga.org/forums/web/buttons/viewpost.gif) (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=726479#post726479)
Is this mountlist correct?
This might be a working mountlist entry for Kick 1.3:
Code:
CF0: FileSystem = L:MessyFileSystem StackSize = 8192 GlobVec = -1 Device = oktagon.device Unit = 0 Flags = 0 BlockSize = 512 Surfaces = 1 BlocksPerTrack = 1 Reserved = 2 Interleave = 0 LowCyl = 0 HighCyl = 7812819 Buffers = 25 BufMemType = 1 DosType = 0x4D534400 Mount = 1#
Except for the unit number which must match the actual position of the CF card reader.
Tonight I try to mount your entry, thanks for your patience Thomas!:angel:
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It's number 0, I've tried other number (until 7) but message was the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandolo (http://www.amiga.org/forums/web/buttons/viewpost.gif) (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=726479#post726479)
Is this mountlist correct?
This might be a working mountlist entry for Kick 1.3:
Code:
CF0: FileSystem = L:MessyFileSystem StackSize = 8192 GlobVec = -1 Device = oktagon.device Unit = 0 Flags = 0 BlockSize = 512 Surfaces = 1 BlocksPerTrack = 1 Reserved = 2 Interleave = 0 LowCyl = 0 HighCyl = 7812819 Buffers = 25 BufMemType = 1 DosType = 0x4D534400 Mount = 1#
Except for the unit number which must match the actual position of the CF card reader.
Tonight I try to mount your entry, thanks for your patience Thomas!:angel:
I have put your entry in mountlist: this time Amiga doesn't crash but nothing appear, after mounting CF0: and trying cd CF0: results is "Can't find CF0:" ...
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After reading the docs I come to the conclusion that fat95 should work on Kick 1.3. Tried it and it does.
So this mountlist entry should work:
CF0:
Device = oktagon.device
Unit = 0
Flags = 0
BufMemType = 1
MaxTransfer = 0x20000
Mask = 0xfffffffe
Filesystem = l:fat95
StackSize = 4096
GlobVec = -1
Buffers = 200
Mount = 1
LowCyl = 0
BlockSize = 512
HighCyl = 1
BlocksPerTrack = 1
Surfaces = 1
DosType = 0x46415401
#
Make sure that the fat95 program is in L.
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After reading the docs I come to the conclusion that fat95 should work on Kick 1.3. Tried it and it does.
So this mountlist entry should work:
CF0:
Device = oktagon.device
Unit = 0
Flags = 0
BufMemType = 1
MaxTransfer = 0x20000
Mask = 0xfffffffe
Filesystem = l:fat95
StackSize = 4096
GlobVec = -1
Buffers = 200
Mount = 1
LowCyl = 0
BlockSize = 512
HighCyl = 1
BlocksPerTrack = 1
Surfaces = 1
DosType = 0x46415401
#
Make sure that the fat95 program is in L.
I'm going crazy .... :hammer::hammer::hammer:.... finished to insert new entry in mountlist, mounting CF0: A2000 says: "Software error - task held, Finish ALL disk activity, Select CANCEL to reset/debug" the GURU meditation #00000004.002A44A8.
AAArgh ... :madashell:
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I suppose there is something wrong with your oktagon.device. Which version of the driver disk do you use? There are four different versions on the Amiga Hardware Database: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/tandem
What happens if you use the supplied HDInstTools program? Does it find the CF card? Does it allow to create partitions on the CF card? (Warning: this will delete all existing data on it!!)
If everything works so far, please try this program: http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/download/getgeometry.lha
Unpack it to ram and run it from the Shell like this:
ram:getgeometry oktagon.device 0
Does it crash, too? If not, what does it print?
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I suppose there is something wrong with your oktagon.device. Which version of the driver disk do you use? There are four different versions on the Amiga Hardware Database: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/tandem
What happens if you use the supplied HDInstTools program? Does it find the CF card? Does it allow to create partitions on the CF card? (Warning: this will delete all existing data on it!!)
I haven't an install disk, it wasn't supplied when I bought the used card; I have tried ALL the .dms archives from link above suggested and nothing of these works.
Oktagon.device wasn't present in any of the .dms on amiga.resource. oktapussy.device cannot be used because needs OS > 2.04.
I have tried to download an oktagon.device from an ALF controller on amiga.resource but the "Version" command says 3.20 on my miggy1200, "Error in open" on my Big Box 2000. Really you're right: problem maybe is relative to the oktagon.device, but I haven't install disks (original or copies). Google doesn't help me this time (for the moment!)
Version of HDInstTools program downloaded from amiga.resource, after command "oktamount", starts correctly but says "This program requires a BSC controller" and stop (no partition or HD showed, all "grey").
This is, in absolute, the hardest installation of HW that I have tried! :D
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If everything works so far, please try this program: http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/download/getgeometry.lha
Unpack it to ram and run it from the Shell like this:
ram:getgeometry oktagon.device 0
Does it crash, too? If not, what does it print?
Workbench reply: cannot open oktagon.device unit 0
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There: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=726401&postcount=13
you say that in TSGUI you can select oktagon.device and that the CF card is shown at unit 0. Is this still true? Can you make a hardcopy of the window after you selected the CF card unit?
Oktagon.device wasn't present in any of the .dms on amiga.resource.
oktagon.device is created in memory when the AT file is executed by Binddrivers. Please don't mix drivers for different controllers.
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oktagon.device is created in memory when the AT file is executed by Binddrivers. Please don't mix drivers for different controllers.
Hi Thoms, sorry, I'm really Newbie :laughing:
Well, I've deleted the octagon.device obtained from ALF controller, re-controlled all directories (devs, l) and mountlist to insure all it's ok with your instruction. Then I launched Tsgui: but there isn't oktagon.device in "select raw device" this time. I suppose last time was present because I've copied the driver from other controller driver. Sorry ... I hadn't understood that AT file was made to create the oktagon.device in memory ...
Maybe it's necessary to control/mount something in the startup-sequence?
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You need AT and AT.info in Extensions and BindDrivers in Startup-Sequence. (AT.info is only visible in a DOS shell. If you see AT in the Workbench drawer, then AT.info is present.)
Also make sure that the hardware is still connected properly. If you often remove and insert the CF card, some other components might loose connection, especially if the CF card reader is connected directly to the controller (not through a cable).
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You need AT and AT.info in Extensions and BindDrivers in Startup-Sequence. (AT.info is only visible in a DOS shell. If you see AT in the Workbench drawer, then AT.info is present.)
Also make sure that the hardware is still connected properly. If you often remove and insert the CF card, some other components might loose connection, especially if the CF card reader is connected directly to the controller (not through a cable).
Yeah, AT is present in dh0:expansion and visibile in workbench. Bindrivers is present as command in Startup-Sequence. HW is mounted correctly (I think): CF reader is connected to card by IDE cable. I cannot understand why AT file doesn't generate oktagon.device: infact when I try to start HDInstTool it says "Cannot find oktagon.device". If I copy the file called "oktamount" from dms present at amigaresource, then start HDInstTool by-pass this problem but then says "THis program requires a BSC controller" and stop. maybe it's a card problem (chips damaged?). Another way to test could be try to change the CF reader with another one 40 pin IDE: I have already tested the card with a 40 Gb HD IDE but nothing, same message on HDInstTool...:angry:
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I have the suspect that something wrong happens with AT file: this file should create oktagon.device, putting it in memory, but exactly where? I'm looking for this device and I cannot find it anywhere.
Maybe AT file must be loaded "manually" in startup-sequence? I think that BindDrivers doesn't recognize it, so that oktagon.device cannot be found with impossibility to activate the hardware. AT file has an .info icon associated, so I can see it in workbench: it is possibile to active it also after startup-sequence? Anyone has ideas? No one has tried to use tandem IDE on amiga 2000 kick 1.3?
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On WB 3.1 there is a command called ShowConfig which lists all expansion boards recognised by the system. I didn't find a similar program on WB 1.3, so I wrote this: http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/download/showboards.lha
Run it and look for a board with Vendor=082c and Product=06. This is the hardware the AT driver binds to (see icon information -> tool types).
Only if the hardware is recognised, the driver will load and initialize.
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On WB 3.1 there is a command called ShowConfig which lists all expansion boards recognised by the system. I didn't find a similar program on WB 1.3, so I wrote this: http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/download/showboards.lha
Run it and look for a board with Vendor=082c and Product=06. This is the hardware the AT driver binds to (see icon information -> tool types).
Only if the hardware is recognised, the driver will load and initialize.
Hi Thomas, thanks a lot for your support. Well, I think card is broken 'cause it isn't recognised by system: here you are the output from you progs:
type=e6 product=$51 vendor=0202 serial=00000000 addr=2000000 size=200000
type=d2 product=$03 vendor=07e1 serial=00000000 addr=0200000 size=020000
type=e7 product=$0a vendor=0202 serial=00000000 addr=6000000 size=400000
type=c4 product=$01 vendor=0201 serial=00000000 addr=4000000 size=080000
Useful prog, congratulation! I have tried to reboot system and load Workbench by floppy (1.3) bypassing any startup-sequence command that could cause conflict, but the result was the same. I tried to change the card position onto another slot but same result: Maybe it's really broken , I've made a bad purchase. I'd like to a my friend to bring me his tandem card to test if works on my big box (he has succesfully installed the card on his A4000 ). Bad Luck!
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But it was alive few days ago. Perhaps you can clean contacts to make it work again.