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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Amigamia on February 03, 2013, 04:15:42 AM

Title: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: Amigamia on February 03, 2013, 04:15:42 AM
Could this be the next AMIGA in FPGA?

http://papilio.cc/index.php?n=Papilio.Papilio

And it's only $84.95
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: yakumo9275 on February 03, 2013, 04:20:15 AM
the spartan3e core on it is very tiny and it has only a usb plug, with 48io lines you might hack some kind of display module up.
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: Amigamia on February 03, 2013, 04:40:17 AM
Quote from: yakumo9275;725095
the spartan3e core on it is very tiny and it has only a usb plug, with 48io lines you might hack some kind of display module up.


There is already a piggyback module called the Papilio Arcade MegaWing which adds VGA, PS/2 K/M, 2 Joysticks ports, sound, and other stuff

http://papilio.cc/index.php?n=Papilio.ArcadeMegaWing
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: AJCopland on February 03, 2013, 09:24:32 AM
More importantly there's also the PapilioPro with a Spartan6 LX9 and 8MiB of ram.

http://papilio.cc/index.php?n=Papilio.PapilioPro

That's the one that costs $84.99 and can also take the ArcadeMegaWing.
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: mikej on February 03, 2013, 09:26:45 AM
Putting together a board is pretty easy, there are a lot of them. The large amount of work is in the software/firmware. I note that all the arcade games are direct from my fpgaarcade site...
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: bloodline on February 03, 2013, 09:47:39 AM
This board does look quite nice for someone like me, who has used Arduinos and other uC dev boards in the past but would like to try FPGAs....

This one does seem a bit limited, but the price is good!

Actually MikeJ, perhaps you could develop an FPGA hobby board, for first time devs who want to get their feet wet ;)
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: ChaosLord on February 03, 2013, 10:26:06 AM
Its Junk.
Quote

VGA Port - DB15 Female VGA connector capable of generating 4096 colors.

It is missing 16.7 MILLION of the stock Amiga 1200's colors.
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: AJCopland on February 03, 2013, 11:50:32 AM
@ChaosLord
You're right the existing VGA "Wing" won't drive a decent colour range, but there's almsot nothing stopping you making an HDMI / DVI-D based one.

The whole thing is open source and there are other boards based on it like the Pipstrello (http://pipistrello.saanlima.com/index.php?title=Welcome_to_Pipistrello) featured on HackADay a while back. Larger FPGA options, more ram and onboard HDMI connector.

@MikeJ
By the way don't think I'm saying these are an alternative to your boards, there's no port of the MiniMig or anything near it for example, but as hobby/development boards they seem quite interesting.

Andy
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: freqmax on February 03, 2013, 12:25:12 PM
Quote
Jeri Ellsworth takes a look at the Papilio One and recommends it for FPGA beginners.

Soap spam next? ;)

I must say one has to really be a detective to figure out the technical data which is essential. And the FPGA doesn't look 680x0+AGA capable.
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: Amigamia on February 03, 2013, 01:42:55 PM
Quote from: freqmax;725133
Soap spam next? ;)

I must say one has to really be a detective to figure out the technical data which is essential. And the FPGA doesn't look 680x0+AGA capable.


What about the Papilio Pro?

" The Papilio Pro (Spartan 6) has direct TMDS I/O support which means that DVI and HDMI interfaces can be implemented without any extra chips. "
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: freqmax on February 04, 2013, 01:47:34 AM
Quote from: Amigamia;725136
What about the Papilio Pro?

" The Papilio Pro (Spartan 6) has direct TMDS I/O support which means that DVI and HDMI interfaces can be implemented without any extra chips. "


It's the speed and electrical signal standard that determines if HDMI is possible. RocketPort should be sufficient.

Xilinx Spartan 6 - probably has enough capacity.

Again hard data lacks..
(specific chip and package, specific Mbit/s rate, specific electrical standard etc)

DVI is completely free to implement (asfaik). With HDMI there's even a fee on having the chip mounted or the specific connector.
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: billt on February 04, 2013, 04:41:09 AM
Quote from: freqmax;725256
Again hard data lacks..
(specific chip and package, specific Mbit/s rate, specific electrical standard etc)


From the product webpage: Spartan 6 LX9 FPGA

In the datasheet they link to, there is only one LX9, XC6SLX9

While I'm not at my Eagle computer right now, I'm sure the Eagle layout/board file will show which package they used. The UCF gives you an idea of clock speed:
NET CLK            LOC="P94"  | IOSTANDARD=LVTTL | PERIOD=31.25ns;               # CLK

Methinks the detective in you didn't try very hard...

The other board someone linked to, Pipistrello, says 324BGA with LX9, LX16, LX25 or LX45 options. I suppose that's simply a list of chips in that same 324BGA package.
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: AJCopland on February 04, 2013, 10:20:24 AM
The LX9 used is the largest Spartan 6 in TQFP format/package, after that it's 324 BGA upto the LX45. Apparently the PapilioPro went with the LX9 because the guy who makes them has had trouble with bringing BGA to market before. The Pipistrello is made independently by someone else entirely.

As for the HDMI/DVI thing there's a thread where someone has made HDMI adapter already and supplied the schematic.

Like I say, might be a nice hobby board for learning/prototyping on for those who are interested in it.
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: freqmax on February 04, 2013, 01:56:11 PM
Quote from: billt;725268
NET CLK            LOC="P94"  | IOSTANDARD=LVTTL | PERIOD=31.25ns;               # CLK


32 Mbit/s = insufficient by magnitudes.

Just to make a simple comparision: 640*480 12-bpp 25-fps = 92 Mbit/s

Quote from: billt;725268
Methinks the detective in you didn't try very hard...


The webpage in question is messy.
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: Fats on February 04, 2013, 08:46:52 PM
Quote from: billt;725268

NET CLK            LOC="P94"  | IOSTANDARD=LVTTL | PERIOD=31.25ns;               # CLK


Be aware that the external clock to a FPGA does not say anything on the clock used internally or for the I/Os. FPGAs have flexible internal clock generators.
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: bloodline on February 06, 2013, 12:51:13 PM
Here is a review of the pipistrello:

http://www.element14.com/community/blogs/alex-the-kidd/2013/02/06/pipistrello-rev-20-fpga-board

Looks super awesome, with HDMI etc... But at $140 it's a bit too pricy for me at the moment :-/

But if someone made an Amiga I/O "Wing board", it would be a lovely MiniMIG replacement ;)
Title: Re: FPGA Papilio Open Source FPGA Hardware
Post by: billt on February 06, 2013, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: bloodline;725119
Actually MikeJ, perhaps you could develop an FPGA hobby board, for first time devs who want to get their feet wet ;)


That's kindof what his board is...