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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: mpiva on January 25, 2004, 08:01:40 AM
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So I bought a couple of 9Gb SCSI drives for my A4000T on eBay. They arrived the other day and I found there was some good nes and bad news about them. The good news was that the drives were better than I expected... 10,000rpm UltraWide SCSI drives :-D No problem there, I have a Cyberstorm MKIII which can do Ultrawide SCSI. However, the bad news is I don't have any Ultrawide SCSI cables!!!
No problem, I thought, I'll just go an by one. This is where the trouble starts. I've called (or dropped by) nearly every computer store in the city and have only found only three stores that carry them... well, kinda. Ok, I've found three stores that have actually know what a SCSI cable (let alone Ultrawide) is and can have them shipped in.
Well, here's my question: one store tells me it will cost $15, one tells me it will cost $30, and the other says $60 (yes, that's for a 2 drive cable, they wanted $90 for a 6 drive cable). Now despite the fact that I think $60 is outrageous for a cable, why such a difference in prices? I've mostly used IDE in the past so SCSI's a little new to me, but is there any diffence in cables that can account for such a price difference? If there are differences (other than the # of drives the cable can connect to) what kind should I get? :-?
On a side note, it sure was fun talking to the computer "experts" at these computer stores who obvoiusly don't know anything outside of their Wintel world:
Me: "I'm looking for an Ultrawide SCSI cable."
Salesman: "Ah, how wide would that be? Wider than a serial cable? Could you measure the port for me?"
BETTER...
(over the phone)
Salesman: "Sorry, all I see here are printer cables, USB cables, and VGA cables."
Me: "You're looking in the wrong spot, it's an INTERNAL cable."
Salesman: "The only internal cables wehave are ribbon cables."
Me: "Yes... it is a ribbon cable."
Saleman: "But I mean they're cables for Harddrives and stuff."
Me: "Yes! That's what I'm trying to install!"
Saleman: "Oh, well here's an ATA66..."
Me: "Oh, never mind!"
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Well, I go through all the same problems when I shop around for anything new to my Amiga. Always have to tell them everything, even though they should be the expert. I often wonder if they have seen the inside of a computer themselves.
Well, SCSI is becoming outdated in the PC world, it's mostly used by servers, if they haven't made some kind of RAID setup.
I can't see why there should be so a huge difference in prices, but one reason could be that it's three different cables, for instance Centronics cable, 50 pins cable, 68 pins cable, etc.
The question of how many ports is difficult to answer. How many drives are you planning on using with the SCSI?
If one of your drives can be terminated with a jumper, you must hook this drive up as the last one on the cable, in order to get the scsi bus terminated correctly. If jumper termination isn't possible, then you also need a terminator. This way a cable with 2 connectors isn't enough. I would say go for one with 6 connectors or more.
I recommend that you bring your hdd to one of these stores, ask them to see the cable, check that it's the same one (the CyberStorm connector is 68 pins also, isn't it?) and then buy the cable if it's the right one.
If you want to use an IDE disk, you can put it on the SCSI chain and still get some of the performance of the SCSI bus, instead of the slow IDE bus. It's done through a SCSI-->IDE bridge, and I have only heard good things about it.
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I just looked at a Danish webstore, and I found the needed cable. SCSI LVD Internal 8x68 pins w/Terminator(no link, sorry, danish txt only) It costs 499 DKK, which is approx. 85$, so scsi cables are expensive, but in this one there is an terminator included. You can probably find it cheaper in the US.
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Hmmm, I did a little more digging on the net about these drives I bought. Turns out they are "Fiber Channel" drives. Can anybody tell me exactly what that is and is there any chance of getting these working on my Cyberstorm?
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Hmmm..... I'd keep looking.
Do a Google search for SCSI cables.
I'm guessing but I would think you should be
able to find what you need for $10 to $15.00 U.S.
Why do you need an 8 device cable??
Usually 4 or 5 device connectors will handle
most setups.
If you had needed a 50 pin, I could have made it
for you.
Check the surplus cable sites on the net.
As an example, CompUSA wanted $18.00 for
a networking cable. I found a site on the net
and got the same cable for $1.80 with a minimum
order of $12.00 so I padded the order with a few
more cables and with shipping still came out ahead.
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Then again, there's a place just for SCSI:
scsisource.com
Cables, adapters, cases, cooling, drives, interface cards - all SCSI. Prices are reasonable, too. They're in the US.
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I don't need a 8 device cable (and I don't recall saying I did). All I need is to connect 2 drives. My main question now is whether "Fiber Channel" drives can be used on the Cyberstorm MK III?
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@mpiva:
You might also need active terminators. The CyberStorm doesnt have any builtin termination and the SCSI cable has to be terminated in both ends. If your harddrives have onboard active termination it is easy - just place one harddrive in each end of the cable and activate their termination. If they dont you will have to buy separate active terminators and fit those at the ends of the cable. There are different types of active terminators - the ones with passtrough and the ones without passthrough. The ones with passthrough can be attached at the end of the cable and then plugged into a disk, but the ones without passthrough has to be plugged in a free connector at the end of the cable... so if you would be using those you would need 5 connectors on your cable (two for the terminators, one for the cyberstorm, two for the harddrives).
/Patrik
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I can only guess as to the Fiber Channel? drives.
I would think if they are compatable with standard
SCSI controllers then you should be able to use
them. The only way to know for sure is to try it.
In my limited experience with SCSI, I have found
that drives that you think should work with no
problems can give you problems and others that
you expect problems from go just fine. There doesn't
seem to be any real rigid standards for SCSI or
atleast Amiga SCSI. I don't see any reason why
you couldn't use them (but I'm only guessing).
As for the cable I would search the net and also
check EBay . I would say for a 3 or 4 device cable,
I would pay $15.00 tops + shipping. Some of these
outlet stores really gouge you.
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mpiva wrote:
I don't need a 8 device cable (and I don't recall saying I did). All I need is to connect 2 drives.
Well, I'm just trying to tell you that you need 3 or 4 connectors to connect 2 drives. 1 to the controller, 2 for the drives, and mayby 1 for the terminator. If you buy one with 3 connectors, and you can't terminate the harddrives with a jumper, then you have to buy a new cable. If you want to connect a scsi cd sometime, then you also need more connectors.
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You can't use Fibre Channel drives on a SCSI controller, it's an entirely different protocol.
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SCSI drives can be adapted to work on a Fibre Channel controller, but I don't know if you can go the other way around or not (probably can, you may have to search a bit). Regardless, Fibre Channel and SCSI are NOT the same thing.
SCSI cables are extremely expensive when you start getting into SCSI-3 cabling types (Ultra-Wide, U160, or U320) They are extraordinarily expensive for a number of factors, including how quickly the individual wires can discharge themselves. There's not really a super-cheap option for advanced SCSI cables, especially if you want to have a lot of connectors.
I've got a 6-device UW cable that cost me almost $80. My 3-device U160 cable cost around $35, and my other cable came with my controller.
Fibre Channel works on a fabric switched based concept, instead of plugging all of the drives into a loop...the protocol is quite different although the drives are very similar.
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anyway just remeber , a4000 is a pain with scsi, so minimum requirement is an ACTIVE terminator!
thats very important and cost quite alot ;(
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Go to eBay and take a look. I have found all the SCSI cables and hard drives that anyone could ever want. Forget those dorks in the stores. Few of them if any are hardware guys. If you don't like eBay you can order what you need from http://www.mcmelectronics.com/
Their prices are higher than eBay but they are cheaper than those retail robbers. Good luck...
Dave
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Can't help you with the Fibre channel drives, but I
can give you some info about the cyberstorm SCSI.
You need a 68pin scsi cable, and they don't have
to be expensive. Twisted pair SCSI cables on the
other hand are expensive, so don't buy those.
Each end of the SCSI chain will need active
termination, with the controller somewhere in the
middle. If you use a 50 pin device at the end, make
sure your adapter has the upper 8bits terminated.
A typical SCSI chain will look like this:
A.TERM-----Controller-----Device-----Device----ETC.-----A.TERM
Try pricewatch or pricegrabber to check prices.
Here is a link for a cable on Newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=12-119-111&depa=1
C Snyder
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Hi there,
If they are Fibre Channel drives then just stick them back on e-bay and get some money back you won't find a converter to get them onto the SCSI bus.
You can put SCSI onto Fibre Channel with an expnsive SCSI-FC bridge but it won't go the other way.
Just to check, what does the connector look like on the rear of the drives, UW/LVD-SE SCSI is fairly easy to spot as it's a D shapped connected with 68way female connector (block with pin holes in it) there will also be the power connector, Fibre Channel is also D shaped but much smaller and looks more like a card -> slot arrangement and only about 20 connectors in there and no molex power connector.
When you do finally get a 68way SCSI disk connect it as follows :
Header 1 - Active terminator
|
Header 2 - CyberstormPPC
|
Header 3 - Hard drive
|
Header 4 or on hard disk - Active Terminator
Easy to do, don't fold the cable to much, don't go beyond 3 foot of cable.
Regards
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Cyberstorm PPC doesn't have internal termination???
wierd.
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Cyberstorm PPC doesn't have internal termination??? weird
How is thiis for weird? My GVP 030@50 has absolutely no termination for its HD. There answer then was that the cable was so short as the HD was mounted on the accelerator that the impedance was better off with no termination. ~~Welcome to the SCSI world~~ :-o
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> Cyberstorm PPC doesn't have internal termination??? wierd.
Not so. Little space on the board and the price was high already.