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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: danbeaver on December 10, 2012, 07:10:21 AM

Title: A3000 Discussion
Post by: danbeaver on December 10, 2012, 07:10:21 AM
I acquired an A3000 a couple of weeks back and had never seen nor read much about them before although I've owned other Amigas since 1986. The motherboard seemed fine but the floppy was dead. After cutting up my hand and removing everything to get the PSU cradle out, I noticed the unfamiliar ZIP RAM.  Weird wobbly things, I then read up on the RAM situation and wondered WTF?  Overlapping ram addresses?  I then checked the battery and not only was the clock working, the battery (original) held a full charge. I replaced it anyways with a coin kit, but felt bad about it.

The DF0 drive sits almost center and DF1 goes to the right, which opposite of the normal A2000; but the FDD cable length prevents switching the two.

The onboard SCSI controller is the same as the A2091's WD33C93-04 that can't be all that great. I like the Amber chip and it functions well, but overall the case is small and cramped, hard to disassemble and assemble, the PSU cradle sits a millimeter above my A3640 card, and the daughter board has to be in place to boot. The shipped KS 2.04 prevents using Picasso96 on my EGS Spectrum 24/28 board and large HDDs. I find it odd that it was considered to be used as a UNIX workstation.

I put some odds and ends in there but could not get MUI to work nor my Subway hanging off my X-Surf. Of course MiamiDX won't work without MUI, but the ZorRam 256MB card works. Tried adding 16 MB of motherboard ZIPs but one broke off a pin during installation and had to order more.

What comments do the A3000 users out there have on this beast?
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: TheBilgeRat on December 10, 2012, 07:31:44 AM
Buster revision should be upgraded to eleven.

That's all I got.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: cameng on December 10, 2012, 09:46:50 AM
Quote from: danbeaver;718334
I acquired an A3000 a couple of weeks back and had never seen nor read much about them before although I've owned other Amigas since 1986. The motherboard seemed fine but the floppy was dead. After cutting up my hand and removing everything to get the PSU cradle out, I noticed the unfamiliar ZIP RAM.  Weird wobbly things, I then read up on the RAM situation and wondered WTF?  Overlapping ram addresses?  I then checked the battery and not only was the clock working, the battery (original) held a full charge. I replaced it anyways with a coin kit, but felt bad about it.

The DF0 drive sits almost center and DF1 goes to the right, which opposite of the normal A2000; but the FDD cable length prevents switching the two.

The onboard SCSI controller is the same as the A2091's WD33C93-04 that can't be all that great. I like the Amber chip and it functions well, but overall the case is small and cramped, hard to disassemble and assemble, the PSU cradle sits a millimeter above my A3640 card, and the daughter board has to be in place to boot. The shipped KS 2.04 prevents using Picasso96 on my EGS Spectrum 24/28 board and large HDDs. I find it odd that it was considered to be used as a UNIX workstation.

I put some odds and ends in there but could not get MUI to work nor my Subway hanging off my X-Surf. Of course MiamiDX won't work without MUI, but the ZorRam 256MB card works. Tried adding 16 MB of motherboard ZIPs but one broke off a pin during installation and had to order more.

What comments do the A3000 users out there have on this beast?


Definitely cramped. Waiting on my new ks chips until its ready for rebirth and cyberstorm compatibility. I am blessed with the later buster chip on board which I hope will avoid conflicts. Stay tuned
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: danbeaver on December 10, 2012, 05:14:13 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;718336
Buster revision should be upgraded to eleven.

That's all I got.

Buster 11 on order from Vesalia, as is KS 3.1 ROM's; WD chip replaced with AMD from Mech's site.   Is there a 14MHz mod for the SCSI chip?  Is it even needed?
ZorRam 256MB works. Replaced non-working floppy with a HD one I bought last year thinking it was an A4000 compatible.  Put a new Teac HD drive in with an adapter for use as a 880K drive for installs; I have a Buddha/Catweasel in working fine, but I'll later hook up the Teac to it for full HD support.  Can't fit a 68-pin HDD due to adapter blocking posterior (tight) hard drive site; so hooked it up with a MB->F-to-M SCSI cable-> 50-to-68-pin adapter->68-pin SCSI cable to HDD for now.

I am hoping 3.1 ROM allows MiamiDX, Picasso96, and Poseidon to work.:laugh1:
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: amiga-penn-wchester on December 10, 2012, 07:25:56 PM
I know that the a3000 is usu. considered to be the peak of the maturity of the ami architecture, but I didn't like it a whole lot from - yes a space perspective - that and its cost.   Certainly looks nicer than an A2000 but I still like the 2000 due to the fact that there's just a lot you can do with it.

I always wanted a 3000T.

Speaking of batteries, I'm still running on the original Varta batt on my rev 6.3 A2000. Doesn't seem to have leaked.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: matt3k on December 10, 2012, 11:17:55 PM
First comment is congrats!
I always preferred the 3000D over any other Amiga, I've owned all of them at one point and IMHO it is the perfect size/performance of the Amigas.

You did all you really need to do, Buster 11, 3.1 ROMS, and updated SCSI.  Now sit back and enjoy it.

Some tips and thoughts - First the 3000D does not have overwelming heat issues to speak of, even with your 040.  That said, I keep the feet slightly elevated to keep the bottom cooler.

Finding the latest ramsey and dmac aren't worth the time and money.  Many systems with the older chips run just fine.

The power supply is perfectly adequate for a fully expanded 3000D.  I have had - Warp Engine 3040, Phonepak, Delphina, Retina Z3, and an Ariandne in one system with no issues.

That all I can think of at the moment...  

Enjoy...
Amazed, simply amazed that the battery didn't leak.  Many 3000's have issues thanks to leaky battery.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 11, 2012, 12:02:45 AM
I never upgraded any chips in any of my A3000s and never needed to in the slightest.  Always worked fine.

I think u r crazy to "upgrade" ur SCSI chip.

I have owned many Amiga hard drive controllers and the built in SCSI chip in the A3000 is by far the best one.  Its the only one I ever had that supported removeable media properly.

Its super fast, uses little CPU time.  There is nothing more that u could ask for.

My U202 (or was it U203) PAL chip went out on me and I had to replace it.  I think every A3000 owner had to do this.


The smallness of the case is why I never liked the A3000.  The case was designed by that mentally retarded PepsiCo guy who had no business sweeping the floors of Commodore Business Machines, much less running the company.  He TOTALLY RUINED THE A3000.  He intentionally made it incompatible to the Video Toaster.  Yeah, just TRY to cram a video toaster in there.

The fact that the A3000 came with awesome Amber chip and Awesome SCSI chip was just a  credit to the engineers who snuck stuff onto the motherboard when dumbass pepsico guy was not looking.

The A3000 does have 32-bit chipram, making it the absolute best ECS machine ever.   And it has Zorro 3 slots, right?  So that is a big +

My first A3000 system was around $3000.00 with monitor.  My 2nd was a couple of years later when C= had them on sale for $700.00 so I bought a 2nd one.  YAHOO!  Then the A4000 came out right afterwards which cost me another $3300.00 with monitor iirc.  How did they go broke with me giving them so much money? :D
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 11, 2012, 12:07:27 AM
I don't understand how u got an A3640 card in your A3000?

I have 2 A3640 cards laying around here (and 2 Amiga 3000s) but no way could those giant things ever fit in there.  They have a giant heat sink on them.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: amiman99 on December 11, 2012, 02:39:37 AM
Quote from: ChaosLord;718475
I don't understand how u got an A3640 card in your A3000?

I have 2 A3640 cards laying around here (and 2 Amiga 3000s) but no way could those giant things ever fit in there.  They have a giant heat sink on them.
I have one too, you just need a slim heat sink on 040 and it will fit fine.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: magnetic on December 11, 2012, 08:07:36 AM
Interesting thread.. some of my observations if you dont mind

1. The a3000 is the hardest amiga to take apart and work on/upgrade

2. The reason the a3000 is so small is because they were competing with the pc formfactors at that time and had to reduce the size drastically from the a2k.

3. Buster 11 is NOT necessary unless you are using high end zorro3 boards or certain boards.

4. Upgrading scsi chip will NOT increase speed and probably only helps with multiple devices. If you have a couple of units the default chip is fine. the a3000 scsi is very fast for an amiga as it has DMA and with a fast scsi drive is a sweet setup.

5. a3640 fits fine with a low profile heatsink (like the one that came on the amiga technologies a3640)

6. The Video Toaster 4000 fits perfectly in an a3000, i just saw a nice setup like this on us ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221163563442?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 11, 2012, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: magnetic;718500
Interesting thread.. some of my observations if you dont mind

1. The a3000 is the hardest amiga to take apart and work on/upgrade

+1

Quote

2. The reason the a3000 is so small is because they were competing with the pc formfactors at that time and had to reduce the size drastically from the a2k.


"They" were not competing against anything or anyone.  Mr. Pepsico (I forgot his real name) wanted the Amiga to "be cool like that NeXt machine" which came in a stupid crappy pizza box case.

Quote

3. Buster 11 is NOT necessary unless you are using high end zorro3 boards or certain boards.


Probably right.  I only ever had..... a Symposium voicemail card, which did not even do DMA at all.

Quote

4. Upgrading scsi chip will NOT increase speed and probably only helps with multiple devices. If you have a couple of units the default chip is fine. the a3000 scsi is very fast for an amiga as it has DMA and with a fast scsi drive is a sweet setup.

Makes sense.  I only ever had 2 drives on my A3000s.  1 internal hard drive + 1 external Magneto-Optical read/write removeable media drive with a stack of disks.  Oh wait, for a few years I had 2 internal hard drives + the external MO drive.

I was intentionally trying to break 1 of the drives.  It was only 100MB and way to small to be useful for much back in 1990s.  So I ran my voicemail on it 24/7 trying to make the drive break.  But dammit, that Quantum drive just would not die.

And my A3000 was one of the very very first ones.  It did not even come with a kickstart ROM.  It loaded kickstart off the HD which was very very kewl and ez to upgrade to a new kickstart. :)

So I say the original SCSI chip is good for 2 internal drives + 1 external drive, at least.

Quote

5. a3640 fits fine with a low profile heatsink (like the one that came on the amiga technologies a3640)

+1

Quote

6. The Video Toaster 4000 fits perfectly in an a3000,

At the introduction of the Amiga 3000 and for a few years thereafter, there was only 1 VideoToaster and it only fit in the A2000.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: Zac67 on December 11, 2012, 08:55:49 PM
The earlier WD SCSI chips are buggy with disconnect/reconnect which you can avoid with fast drives altogether. With tape drives and/or CD-Rs it may become an issue.

Anyway, the 3000 is the coolest and most beautiful Amiga.
(It does have its challenges when disassembling the machine or cramming as much hardware as possible into the case - but its not for beginners. ;))
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: amigamad on December 11, 2012, 11:10:02 PM
I had a an amiga 1500 and an amiga 3000d and a desktop a4000 for me the a3000 was far better than both the 1500 and 4000 the only thing it lacked was the aga chipset from the 4000 ,i found it came apart as easy as any other amiga .
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: hishamk on December 11, 2012, 11:36:19 PM
Quote from: ChaosLord;718560
+1
"They" were not competing against anything or anyone.  Mr. Pepsico (I forgot his real name) wanted the Amiga to "be cool like that NeXt machine" which came in a stupid crappy pizza box case.


Thomas Rattigan.

We need an E! Where are they now kind of show. :)
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 11, 2012, 11:37:23 PM
Quote from: Zac67;718603
The earlier WD SCSI chips are buggy with disconnect/reconnect which you can avoid with fast drives altogether. With tape drives and/or CD-Rs it may become an issue.


Weird that I never encountered this bug in all my A3000 years 1990-1998.  My MO Drive was really really sloooow.  I think it only wrote at like 75KB/sec

What are the symptoms of this buggy disconnect/reconnect?
Or how would I know if I had the bug?
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: danbeaver on December 15, 2012, 05:34:53 PM
All agreed upon!

I put my A3640 in by turning the (low profile) heatsink 90 degrees.

The Zips (I went from 4 MB to 16MB) were a Mother F***er to install, breaking one of the tiny flimsy pins and having to order another (4).  I have a DIP installer, but a Zip installer?

The SCSI device is not perfect or wonderful; I upgraded the chip because I needed to use external CDROM, Card reader, and GOK what due to lack of internal space.  Further it is unforgiving and requires a separate Active termination to work consistently; on drive termination need only apply for part time work.  I tried adding an ACard SCSI->IDE adapter with an evening wasted.

Can't find out if a FastLane Z3 works in the A3000; some say it does, some say maybe, others say no.

Twice I've smelled a burnt something, but cannot figure what unless the power supply is dodgy .  

Did they really have to sharpen the metal edges inside the computer?  Could they just used razor wire, or land mines?  My hands look like (and feel like) H.e.l.l.:angel:
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 15, 2012, 05:56:54 PM
Quote from: danbeaver;719240

Did they really have to sharpen the metal edges inside the computer?  Could they just used razor wire, or land mines?  My hands look like (and feel like) H.e.l.l.:angel:


One time my outer case was laying on the floor upside down.  I walked into the room and stepped right on it with all my force in my bare feet.  I got cut really bad and blood was gushing everywhere.  I never did that again!
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: AppleIIGuy on December 16, 2012, 10:21:13 AM
Even iMacs have sharp bits.... http://t.co/qIycQ8IX
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: mechy on December 16, 2012, 08:07:16 PM
Quote from: ChaosLord;718474
I never upgraded any chips in any of my A3000s and never needed to in the slightest.  Always worked fine.

I think u r crazy to "upgrade" ur SCSI chip.


I have owned many Amiga hard drive controllers and the built in SCSI chip in the A3000 is by far the best one.  Its the only one I ever had that supported removeable media properly.

Its super fast, uses little CPU time.  There is nothing more that u could ask for.

My U202 (or was it U203) PAL chip went out on me and I had to replace it.  I think every A3000 owner had to do this.


The smallness of the case is why I never liked the A3000.  The case was designed by that mentally retarded PepsiCo guy who had no business sweeping the floors of Commodore Business Machines, much less running the company.  He TOTALLY RUINED THE A3000.  He intentionally made it incompatible to the Video Toaster.  Yeah, just TRY to cram a video toaster in there.

The fact that the A3000 came with awesome Amber chip and Awesome SCSI chip was just a  credit to the engineers who snuck stuff onto the motherboard when dumbass pepsico guy was not looking.

The A3000 does have 32-bit chipram, making it the absolute best ECS machine ever.   And it has Zorro 3 slots, right?  So that is a big +

My first A3000 system was around $3000.00 with monitor.  My 2nd was a couple of years later when C= had them on sale for $700.00 so I bought a 2nd one.  YAHOO!  Then the A4000 came out right afterwards which cost me another $3300.00 with monitor iirc.  How did they go broke with me giving them so much money? :D

you obviously never pushed it. The -04 chips have a known broken scsi2  command set and many have trouble with multiple drives on the chain. The  newer chip fixes these bugs. Also, when going to a A3640,sometimes you will start seeing errors and scsi bus problems,and the upgrade will fix this also. It is one of the reasons some people say the 3640 will not work in their A3000.

Many A3000's came with buster 7's also and this means non working zorro3(only zorro2). Buster 9 or 11 fixed this.

In most every case, i see no need to update dmac2/ramsey4. there was a bug detecting static column ram , however when you mixed sc and page mode or went to the 3640(which doesnt like sc ram) and you had to put a pagemode zip in the first socket. this was fixed with the dmac4/ramsey7 combo.

mech
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: mechy on December 16, 2012, 08:17:32 PM
Quote from: danbeaver;719240
All agreed upon!

I put my A3640 in by turning the (low profile) heatsink 90 degrees.

The Zips (I went from 4 MB to 16MB) were a Mother F***er to install, breaking one of the tiny flimsy pins and having to order another (4).  I have a DIP installer, but a Zip installer?

The SCSI device is not perfect or wonderful; I upgraded the chip because I needed to use external CDROM, Card reader, and GOK what due to lack of internal space.  Further it is unforgiving and requires a separate Active termination to work consistently; on drive termination need only apply for part time work.  I tried adding an ACard SCSI->IDE adapter with an evening wasted.

Can't find out if a FastLane Z3 works in the A3000; some say it does, some say maybe, others say no.

Twice I've smelled a burnt something, but cannot figure what unless the power supply is dodgy .  

Did they really have to sharpen the metal edges inside the computer?  Could they just used razor wire, or land mines?  My hands look like (and feel like) H.e.l.l.:angel:

Dan,

I feel your pain on the zips,but i do so many i can almost do them blindfolded now.

The fastlane works just fine in the A3000( i have the 8.5 rom upgrade for them if you need it-needed for 060 use), i use several. You must have buster 9 or 11 thought. buster 7 only does zorro2.

I find it odd you say the 3000scsi device isn't the best. I find it rock stable and have proven it to people who claim this many years. Its almost always a termination issue or term power issue that causes flakiness,BUT alot of older scsi cdroms had bad firmwares-also some bad drives load the bus badly when they start to fail.
the 3000 rarely if ever requires active termination. Passive is fine but active is best.
keep in mind when using internal and external devices the ends of the bus become the drives and only those should be terminated.  no A3000 motherboard term resistors should be installed in this case.
Other problems with scsi bus is often caused by bad or backwards term power diodes and without term power, terminators dont work.

the burning smell may be the PALS in the 3k,they run hot, OR the pull up resistors on the slot board,they run hot also. any dust on them makes a smell sometimes.

Like many,i think the 3k case looks good but is a horrible internal design. i dont find them particularly sharp  but it doesn't take much to cut yourself on metal cases.

If you are ever fighting it and need help don't hesitate to ask,i think i have seen about every 3000 trouble there is.. lol

mech
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: Zac67 on December 16, 2012, 08:51:29 PM
Quote from: mechy;719375
Many A3000's came with buster 7's also and this means non working zorro3(only zorro2).

Zorro III works fine with Level I Super Buster (up to rev 7) sans DMA.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 16, 2012, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: mechy;719375
you obviously never pushed it. The -04 chips have a known broken scsi2  command set and many have trouble with multiple drives on the chain. The  newer chip fixes these bugs.
 Yep I keep hearing that.  I just never experience it myself :)

Maybe my 2nd A3000 came with an upgraded chip since it was a year or 2 after the first.  Dunno.


Quote

Also, when going to a A3640,sometimes you will start seeing errors and scsi bus problems,and the upgrade will fix this also. It is one of the reasons some people say the 3640 will not work in their A3000.

AHA!  Thanx for the infos!  It is possible someone told me this many years ago and that is why I gave up on putting the A3640 in my A3000.  I think I just forgot all this a long time ago.

I am not even sure I want an A3640 card in my A3000.
1. I would have to upgrade a bunch of chips.  Are they socketed?
2. I would get massive increase in cpu power but I donno how fast the A3640 would write to chipram.  I am afraid that chipram writes would drop to halfspeed or quarterspeed.  Does anyone have bustest results for A3000+A3640?




Quote

Many A3000's came with buster 7's also and this means non working zorro3(only zorro2). Buster 9 or 11 fixed this.

I never owned a Zorro 3 card.  Are there any Z3 cards worth getting in 2012?

I might possibly get a Mediator for my A3000 to get PCI slots and a 256MB gfx card.  I guess mediator is a Z3 card?  Anybody knows what the transfer speed over the Mediator bus is in an A3000?


p.s. Thanx for the knowledge!
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: mechy on December 16, 2012, 09:31:13 PM
Quote from: Zac67;719380
Zorro III works fine with Level I Super Buster (up to rev 7) sans DMA.

I should of clarified that. It also does not support Z3 busmasters iirc.Mine as well be broken for Z3 use :)
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: mechy on December 16, 2012, 09:47:17 PM
Quote from: ChaosLord;719381
Yep I keep hearing that.  I just never experience it myself :)

Maybe my 2nd A3000 came with an upgraded chip since it was a year or 2 after the first.  Dunno.



AHA!  Thanx for the infos!  It is possible someone told me this many years ago and that is why I gave up on putting the A3640 in my A3000.  I think I just forgot all this a long time ago.

I am not even sure I want an A3640 card in my A3000.
1. I would have to upgrade a bunch of chips.  Are they socketed?
2. I would get massive increase in cpu power but I donno how fast the A3640 would write to chipram.  I am afraid that chipram writes would drop to halfspeed or quarterspeed.  Does anyone have bustest results for A3000+A3640?





I never owned a Zorro 3 card.  Are there any Z3 cards worth getting in 2012?

I might possibly get a Mediator for my A3000 to get PCI slots and a 256MB gfx card.  I guess mediator is a Z3 card?  Anybody knows what the transfer speed over the Mediator bus is in an A3000?


p.s. Thanx for the knowledge!

Adding a 3640(must use rev3.1 or 3.2) usually requires no chip upgrades, other than making sure you have page mode zip ram in at least the first socket.this tells the amiga to treat ram as all as page mode.The 3640 unfortunately does not work with static column ram(unless treated as fast page).Some but not all have trouble with scsi and need the chip upgrade.

For zorro3 cards there are the fastlane z3,4091,zorro3 gfx cards(cv64,piv,etc),deneb USB,mediator. Probabaly would depend on what you need i guess. The deneb is a handy card to have!

the mediator is a z3 card,transfer from card to the amiga is dictated by the amiga zorro3, probabaly somewhere between 12-14MB/s (just a guess,i have never checked).
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 16, 2012, 10:11:53 PM
Quote from: mechy;719395
Adding a 3640(must use rev3.1 or 3.2)

I have 1 A3640 v3.0 so I guess it is useless.
I have 1 A3640 v3.1 so I guess it has value


Quote

 usually requires no chip upgrades, other than making sure you have page mode zip ram in at least the first socket.
ugh!  All my RAM is Static Column Ram. :(


Quote

this tells the amiga to treat ram as all as page mode.The 3640 unfortunately does not work with static column ram(unless treated as fast page).

No wonder I gave up on putting my A3640s in my A3000s :(
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: Zac67 on December 16, 2012, 10:20:04 PM
Quote from: mechy;719395
The 3640 unfortunately does not work with static column ram(unless treated as fast page).


The problem is that Kick 2.x tries to activate burst mode with SC RAM regardless of the CPU. Ramsey is only capable of running '030 bursts and not compatible with '040 bursts. Kick 3.x in ROM also solves that problem. ;)
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 16, 2012, 10:27:26 PM
Quote from: Zac67;719402
The problem is that Kick 2.x tries to activate burst mode with SC RAM regardless of the CPU. Ramsey is only capable of running '030 bursts and not compatible with '040 bursts. Kick 3.x in ROM also solves that problem. ;)

Does that mean I need an actual physical 3.0 ROM CHIP?

One of my A3000s has that.

The other A3000 came with the ROM Tower thingamajig that loads Kickstart from the Hard drive.  The file on my hard drive is a KS3.1
Is that going to work with any A3640 card?
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: mechy on December 16, 2012, 11:05:49 PM
Quote from: Zac67;719402
The problem is that Kick 2.x tries to activate burst mode with SC RAM regardless of the CPU. Ramsey is only capable of running '030 bursts and not compatible with '040 bursts. Kick 3.x in ROM also solves that problem. ;)

good ole zac keeping me honest. I completely forgot about the 3.1 roms.. doesnt everyone have them by now :biglaugh:

Mech
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: danbeaver on December 17, 2012, 03:56:12 AM
As to the KS 3.1 ROM's, had to get those from Vesalia, other wise impossible to find.

My Zips are all (except the first 4 MB) from Mech; I didn't ask and he doesn't say what type, but they seem to work.

My A3640 says 3.1 on the board, but a 3.2 is labeled across one chip; it seems to work.

Burnt smell?  My 4 GB CF card has a black hole in it and the Buddha IDE is no longer recognized, just out of the blue.

Dern'd SCSI is still giving me heck; after the "smell" above I took her apart to check the motherboard vs the schematics and found all well.  But now she crashes on accessing the external (is there any other type) CDROM.  I just click SCSI Inquiry with the CDROM connected and it is GURU city.  Termination is OK; she boots from the hard drive (one internal), but no external access! (?)

She is in the midst of a laparotomy as I type.

{mech, the IRC is discussing class warfare, not Amigas}
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: danbeaver on December 17, 2012, 04:13:47 AM
OK,

This is annoying.  I just changed the HDD ID to 4 and the external ID to 2, and now no GURU (had been HDD 0, and CDROM 5).  I mean WTF? Since when does the ID number order matter?:confused:

And the Seagate ST15230N does not like Reselection! What else is on my plate?

If I can get back to 2 days ago where I had my Subway hanging off my ISDN Surfer, my ZorRam 256K, and my Spectrum 24/28 working, then I'll die in my sleep a contented man.

As an aside, I can see where the -5 Volts from the current PSU supplies the 100-bit Zorro slots, but is it needed elsewhere?  If I need a PSU replacement and if I use a Micro ATX that has no -5 Volt  rail,will it be an issue (yes I saw the inversion circuit posted elsewhere)?  The ISA slots are unused, and I don't know of any cards that require it, do you folks?
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: Iggy on December 17, 2012, 04:49:43 AM
Quote from: ChaosLord;719381
I never owned a Zorro 3 card.  Are there any Z3 cards worth getting in 2012?

I might possibly get a Mediator for my A3000 to get PCI slots and a 256MB gfx card.  I guess mediator is a Z3 card?  Anybody knows what the transfer speed over the Mediator bus is in an A3000?

Chaoslord makes a salient comment!
Do we need a later Buster version to use a Mediator?

If not why not stick with a revision 7?

A heck, I'm probably just going to build a mini tower 4000.:)
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: matt3k on December 17, 2012, 12:16:53 PM
Quote from: danbeaver;719420
OK,

This is annoying.  I just changed the HDD ID to 4 and the external ID to 2, and now no GURU (had been HDD 0, and CDROM 5).  I mean WTF? Since when does the ID number order matter?:confused:

And the Seagate ST15230N does not like Reselection! What else is on my plate?

If I can get back to 2 days ago where I had my Subway hanging off my ISDN Surfer, my ZorRam 256K, and my Spectrum 24/28 working, then I'll die in my sleep a contented man.

As an aside, I can see where the -5 Volts from the current PSU supplies the 100-bit Zorro slots, but is it needed elsewhere?  If I need a PSU replacement and if I use a Micro ATX that has no -5 Volt  rail,will it be an issue (yes I saw the inversion circuit posted elsewhere)?  The ISA slots are unused, and I don't know of any cards that require it, do you folks?


Sometime SCSI Standards adopted by the manufacturer aren't so standard so in the distant past I have seen a rare issue with ID's and certain devices.   I just switched it and moved on (and generally felt happy it wasn't IDE!!!).  The standard 3000 SCSI is simply rock solid, 20 plus years of run time here without any issues.

I would bet decent money your power supply is fine, I know power supplies can fail, but I have never seen a 3k ps fail.  In trouble shooting items it has always been card order or software version.  This is in my experience...

What is the issue with the spectrum?  does it crash when you try to run video on it?  If yes the the solder/jumper fix on the vga connector on the psb isn't connected.  Look on the card on the hardware database and look at where the wire is jumpered.  Make sure is is on yours.  I have seen this issue with my spectrum.  The wire jumper was poorly attached, a simple fix.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 17, 2012, 05:05:55 PM
@DanBeaver

Does your external CDROM drive have an external powersupply?
I guess it would have to.  Definitely need one.

I had an ID collision problem before.  I was using old hard drives and had no idea how to change their ID number.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: Zac67 on December 17, 2012, 10:19:02 PM
@ChaosLord
Quote
Does that mean I need an actual physical 3.0 ROM CHIP?


If you want to run a full set of SC chips with Kick 1.4 or 2.x and an '040 or '060 - yes. (The '060 requires at least 2.x physical anyway.)
If you don't want to get Kick 3 ROMs just swap the very first SC chip for an FPM type. Kickstart will detect SC as not working and deactivate burst mode.

@danbeaver
Make sure the onboard termpower picofuse is still working: no fuse, no termpower, no termination!


Re ancient Seacrate drives: these buggers seem to support dis/reconnect by inquiry but some really DON'T. I remember seeing some strings in AHA-2940 BIOS code that were probably present to identify badly behaving drives and circumvent the problems they'd cause without requiring specific user setup. Go figure...

Nothing against later Seagate drives, I've got lots of IDE, SCSI, and SATA in use and they're fine. But some models from early to late 90's were simply evil.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: magnetic on December 18, 2012, 01:51:45 AM
Quote from: mechy;719375

In most every case, i see no need to update dmac2/ramsey4. there was a bug detecting static column ram , however when you mixed sc and page mode or went to the 3640(which doesnt like sc ram) and you had to put a pagemode zip in the first socket. this was fixed with the dmac4/ramsey7 combo.

mech


Good information did not know this. Thanks pretty obscure there :)

As you may know its damn near impossible to find dmac5/ramsey7 combo. (prolly worth more than a used a3k!)
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: magnetic on December 18, 2012, 01:58:58 AM
Quote from: Zac67;719402
The problem is that Kick 2.x tries to activate burst mode with SC RAM regardless of the CPU. Ramsey is only capable of running '030 bursts and not compatible with '040 bursts. Kick 3.x in ROM also solves that problem. ;)


Did not know this either! Thanks! Great thread

A3000 has some funny quirks I remember when we got in an a3k for repairs. My friend fixed a prob on the mb and I went to re-assemble and test it. He was out of the country and I couldnt figure why it wouldnt show the rom screen. Well, I was testing with the case open and no daughterboard! (A4k you can start without this) 3 hrs of frustration later and an amiga guy on irc told me to put the damn daughterboard in. (felt pretty dumb lol)
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 18, 2012, 02:48:40 AM
Yeah I did the same thing one time.  I spent hours thinking I had broken my Amiga 3000.  Turns out it requires the daughterboard even if it is empty.
Hahah. Live and learn. :)
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on December 18, 2012, 03:00:42 AM
Just to pound this thread into my memory:

I can use an A3640 card in my A3000 but I must sacrifice burst mode.  This means I get slower memory, but a faster CPU.  Hmmm...

Or I can leave my A3000 the way it is and use it as the perfect WHDLoad machine since so many WHDLoad games seem to have problems with 040 and 060 cpus.

Maybe what I will do, since I only have 1 A3640 card that is a v3.1, is upgrade the A3000 that has a real v3.1 ROM chip in it.  The trouble is that particular A3000 has a mouseport that has come unsoldered so needs to be repaired by a competent desolder/solder magician.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: danbeaver on December 18, 2012, 08:54:02 AM
02:54 am Update:  I just put back together after installing the Buster 11.  I spent the day sorting out the SCSI and found that it hangs if there is a CD in the CDROM during boot. Weird!  EGS Spectrum 24/28, ISDN Surfer with Subway, and ZorRam all working fine. Boots fine and is behaving properly.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: magnetic on December 18, 2012, 09:23:50 AM
dansbeaver

Try to use another cd filesystem like Asimcdfs on the drive
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: danbeaver on December 18, 2012, 05:58:42 PM
Oops, too late!  I've been using Version 3.9 of AsimWares CDFS. But this a pre-boot (hardware) issue; at best guess it reads the CD for a bootable OS and "has a cow" when it finds something else.

By the way, those PC->Amiga Floppy adapters from Ian's web site do not cover the exposed connections underneath next to the A3000's metal plate and I fried one and half fried a second before I figured that one out!

I don't know what happened to my Buddha card and the attached CF card, but the card is dead (may it RIP) and there is a brown hole in the CF card from heat.

Oh, when Mary had a little lamb,  the doctor fainted :)
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: Iggy on December 20, 2012, 02:45:38 AM
What's the most up to date SCSI drive an A3000 can handle?
I've got lots of U160 and U320 drives, but I really doubt those would work (work great in my Mac and my PC).
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: Zac67 on December 20, 2012, 11:35:47 AM
U320 LVD/SE drives work fine with a proper adapter. Some models may require high-byte termination to spin up, all other devices are fine with a wide-to-narrow or SCA2-to-narrow adapter.
There may be the odd LVD-only device, not compatible with single ended, but I have yet to see such a device (got a terminated cable like this though).
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: danbeaver on December 20, 2012, 01:50:43 PM
Mech IRC'd me through a CF card install (SFS) yesterday with checks on SCSI bus: the diode is no longer rectifying (D800?) so I have 5 V on pin 25 with power and ground without power. The CF card reader now works as a boot drive with my SCSI-3 CD-R/W drive -- both external. I bought a FastLane Z3 from FitzSteve (with 128 MB RAM) to try. He says it is kinda flaky too; but maybe two flakes can make a breakfast cereal.

I plan to replace D800 after my cuts heal, but for now I have a good workable A3000 -- and by work I don't mean a WHDLoad machine. I mean a FinalWriter, PageStream4, Internet connected, USB'd, image processing, and all-around computer (that can play WHDLoad games from the 4GB CF card I have filled with them).
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: matt3k on December 20, 2012, 02:27:43 PM
Quote from: Iggy;719763
What's the most up to date SCSI drive an A3000 can handle?
I've got lots of U160 and U320 drives, but I really doubt those would work (work great in my Mac and my PC).


Hi Iggy,

As Zac mention no problem with them, newer drives/scsi are picky with cables and termination.  Old SCSI cables that were a 'mile long' and not well crimped may be an issue.

Modern SSD Drives work fine in Amiga's also.  I have a OWC SATA 3g drive that I picked up on a deal.  The adapters are the pricey part of the deal, they are generally north of $100 USD.

But they format and work well on stock 3000 SCSI.  Sad to say the Acard adapter/SSD do not work on the Warp Engine SCSI.  That and a quiet fan make a silent Amiga...
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: Rodomoc on December 23, 2012, 03:51:12 AM
Not sure why your subway does not work off the X-Surf. This is the exact setup I have in my A3000. Having USB is fun in any computer and quite novelty in the A3000. Would re-installing the Subway software help? It is also easy to plug these things in backwards and wreck things too, I almost did but caught it in time.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: Rodomoc on December 23, 2012, 04:03:16 AM
As far as the A3640, I have been running a 3.1 version from Amiga Technologies for quite some time now without issues. The problem seems to be both space (drive tray right on top of it), and heat, I have a very thin heat sink with tiny cooling fan that just barely clears the drive tray. Running for years like this now. As far as the A3000 SCSI, I love it. Sure it is slow as hell but it works. I did run an Elbox Fast ATA for a bit. Basically to get a decent CD drive going. But my boot times were atrocious with all of this crap. (takes a long time to get CDFS loaded up) So I did go back to a SCSI only system without CD for now.

I like the A3000 a lot. Mine is a little creaky at times but it does run without any hassles. As far as working in the case, it is indeed tight in there. Here is a funny story, I was tinkering with MorphOS 2.0 when it came out using an Efika board. I got tired of using it without a case so stuck it in an old A2500 case I had. That was hilarious because the Efika is so tiny and looked ridiculous sitting all by itself in the monstrous A2500 case :)
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: magnetic on December 23, 2012, 07:25:51 AM
Quote from: Zac67;719783
U320 LVD/SE drives work fine with a proper adapter. Some models may require high-byte termination to spin up, all other devices are fine with a wide-to-narrow or SCA2-to-narrow adapter.
There may be the odd LVD-only device, not compatible with single ended, but I have yet to see such a device (got a terminated cable like this though).


Yes I can agree with this. AFAIK most modern SCSI drives "lvd type" do work with good 50 pin adaptors. I never had spin up problems most configs of this worked back when we used used to service toasters and amigas.
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: danbeaver on December 23, 2012, 10:56:12 PM
Quote from: Rodomoc;720084
Not sure why your subway does not work off the X-Surf. This is the exact setup I have in my A3000. Having USB is fun in any computer and quite novelty in the A3000. Would re-installing the Subway software help? It is also easy to plug these things in backwards and wreck things too, I almost did but caught it in time.

Mine works fine off the X-Surf although I swapped out a 50 US Salad leaf ISDN Surfer to use for its clockport; same orientation as for X-Surf -- Ribbon cable heads to the bottom of card, not off the top!
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: TjLaZer on February 15, 2013, 04:17:31 AM
I'm having a problem with my A3000.  Speech doesn't seem to work! (say command) Tried WB1.3 or 2.04 and it doesn't work.  Sound works perfectly otherwise!  My system soft kicks Kickstart, maybe this is the reason why...
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on February 15, 2013, 06:08:53 AM
Speech works fine on my softkicked A3000.

Secret Hint: If you delete the C:Say command or the LIBS:translator.library or the DEVS:Narrator.device off of your hard drive then you are going to have problems with speech. :insane:
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: nicholas on February 15, 2013, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: mechy;719376
Dan,

I feel your pain on the zips,but i do so many i can almost do them blindfolded now.

The fastlane works just fine in the A3000( i have the 8.5 rom upgrade for them if you need it-needed for 060 use), i use several. You must have buster 9 or 11 thought. buster 7 only does zorro2.

I find it odd you say the 3000scsi device isn't the best. I find it rock stable and have proven it to people who claim this many years. Its almost always a termination issue or term power issue that causes flakiness,BUT alot of older scsi cdroms had bad firmwares-also some bad drives load the bus badly when they start to fail.
the 3000 rarely if ever requires active termination. Passive is fine but active is best.
keep in mind when using internal and external devices the ends of the bus become the drives and only those should be terminated.  no A3000 motherboard term resistors should be installed in this case.
Other problems with scsi bus is often caused by bad or backwards term power diodes and without term power, terminators dont work.

the burning smell may be the PALS in the 3k,they run hot, OR the pull up resistors on the slot board,they run hot also. any dust on them makes a smell sometimes.

Like many,i think the 3k case looks good but is a horrible internal design. i dont find them particularly sharp  but it doesn't take much to cut yourself on metal cases.

If you are ever fighting it and need help don't hesitate to ask,i think i have seen about every 3000 trouble there is.. lol

mech

I'm itching to put my A3000 back together after two house moves and two years in storage (in pieces too).

I may have many questions too if you don't mind?
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: matt3k on February 15, 2013, 11:37:44 AM
Sure Nicolas happy to help,

I just got working working perfectly, after many (much to many) hours.  So everything is still fresh in my mind!

Matt
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: nicholas on February 15, 2013, 08:02:29 PM
Quote from: matt3k;726469
Sure Nicolas happy to help,

I just got working working perfectly, after many (much to many) hours.  So everything is still fresh in my mind!

Matt

Muchas gracias Matt!

First thing I need to do is download the latest 68060.library for my CSMK2. Would Phase 5's be best or Thor's?
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: matt3k on February 16, 2013, 02:37:15 AM
Quote from: nicholas;726500
Muchas gracias Matt!

First thing I need to do is download the latest 68060.library for my CSMK2. Would Phase 5's be best or Thor's?


I had a CSMKII many years ago.  Great card, congrats.  

I used the Phase 5 ones and they worked perfectly.  Never tried the Thor.

From my experience go with the P5, they are proven and work...
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: ChaosLord on February 16, 2013, 03:00:18 AM
Thor FTW!
Title: Re: A3000 Discussion
Post by: nicholas on February 16, 2013, 03:11:50 AM
Quote from: matt3k;726519
I had a CSMKII many years ago.  Great card, congrats.  

I used the Phase 5 ones and they worked perfectly.  Never tried the Thor.

From my experience go with the P5, they are proven and work...

Quote from: ChaosLord;726521
Thor FTW!

Well the P5 ones always were stable on my mk2 and also worked a treat on my old Blizzard too, but I'm tempted to try out Thor's as I've heard great things about them and he is a great 68k coder.

I guess I'll try them out and see how I get on.

Just found out that my kids have a week off school so that will set back my A3000 restoration plans a tad. :(