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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Lurch on November 03, 2012, 08:42:29 PM
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Ok so the crystal is 25Mhz and the CPU is 25Mhz but sysinfo is reporting 13.4Mhz?
My card -
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/professional530plus
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I guess it divide the clock with 2. So the crystal may have been swapped. What is the speed on the cpu?
(Text on the top of the cpu)
If you have a 16mhz 030, you need a 30mhz crystal. If a 33mhz 030 use a 66mhz and so on.
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I guess it divide the clock with 2. So the crystal may have been swapped. What is the speed on the cpu?
(Text on the top of the cpu)
If you have a 16mhz 030, you need a 30mhz crystal. If a 33mhz 030 use a 66mhz and so on.
CPU is 25Mhz and crystal is 25Mhz. So I have a 68030 40Mhz and a 40Mhz crystal coming if it divides it by two that's a bummer :-)
Have also tried with a 20Mhz 68030 and that to is stuck at 13.4Mhz :-/
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should have tried the 25Mhz CPU with the 40Mhz crystal before replacing the cpu.
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So will need to source a 80Mhz crystal ? :-(
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should have tried the 25Mhz CPU with the 40Mhz crystal before replacing the cpu.
Havent received the 40Mhz stuff yet, still on it's way.
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Sysinfo mostly does educated guesses about the frequency - you need something more reliable.
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Sysinfo mostly does educated guesses about the frequency - you need something more reliable.
Looks like sys speed might be the thing to try going by forum posts. Would the result from the speed test in Sysinfo mean anything?
i.e. what would one expect from a 68030 25Mhz?
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Somewhere a little below 5 Mips I think.
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Somewhere a little below 5 Mips I think.
with no 32bit ram on the accelerator, it'll do ~0.9mips...
edit: actually, it will be even lower than this, most likely score the same as the stock CPU
with SOME 32bit ram, even just 512k, it should be doing ~4.8mips...
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8795/20120816182226.jpg
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Havent received the 40Mhz stuff yet, still on it's way.
I was suggesting trying a faster crystal as the CPU you already have may run at 40Mhz just fine... mine is currently at 36Mhz ;)
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Where you find 030 on 25 mhz? Long time ago I had 030 but on 50mhz. And it felt faster than 040/25 I've bought 2 years after. The only real speed I felt with 060/50...
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Get 2600 tops with the 4MB onboard. So looks like it's stuck at 13.4Mhz. The screenshot of sysinfo posted is what I was expecting LOL
So some thing isn't working as intended.
Got the 25Mhz with the card :-)
Ah well when I get the new 40Mhz crystal I'll try ticking that in it and see what happens :-)
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AIBB/sysspeed all state 13 or 14.5Mhz so something weird going on here.
25Mhz Crystal
25Mhz 68030
25Mhz FPU
Maybe something software wise :-/ 68030.library?
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is the crystal thats currently in there around the right way? :p
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LOL yep, even tried another crystal. Who knows haha :-)
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same speed crystal I assume?
don't have any other speeds lying around do you?
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Just have the two crystals, both 25Mhz though. Waiting for a 40Mhz that I bought, will give that one a go.
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Is it just 1 crystal that controls both CPU and FPU?
Or are there 2 different crystals?
Maybe the FPU crystal speed is somehow interfering with the CPU crystal speed?
I don't really know about such things. I am just throwing out an idea.
Are your CPU caches on? If some evil program somewhere is disabling them for some reason this could explain slowness.
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I guess it divide the clock with 2. So the crystal may have been swapped. What is the speed on the cpu?
(Text on the top of the cpu)
If you have a 16mhz 030, you need a 30mhz crystal. If a 33mhz 030 use a 66mhz and so on.
Nonsense! That counts only for 68040 CPU's.
@ Lurch
Don't put in a 40Mhz crystal! You'll probably burn the 25Mhz CPU. The reason why sysinfo reports only about 13Mhz is that the Cache jumper on the turbocard is probably disabled.
Have a look at the jumper info on http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/professional530plus
Edit:
And do you have any FastRAM memory on the board? If not, then that could be also a reason for the turbocard to slow down. FastRAM memory is essential for speeding up the CPU!
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So will need to source a 80Mhz crystal ? :-(
Noooooooo! You will vaporize the cpu! :eek:
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Noooooooo! You will vaporize the cpu! :eek:
Attempting to overclock a processor beyond its limits won't simply result in it instantly failing...
Chances are it won't do anything with a 40mhz crystal.
Even if it does successfully boot, it won't just magically fail before you have a chance to run sysinfo and see what speed its running at.
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Attempting to overclock a processor beyond its limits won't simply result in it instantly failing...
Chances are it won't do anything with a 40mhz crystal.
Even if it does successfully boot, it won't just magically fail before you have a chance to run sysinfo and see what speed its running at.
Yeah, but he's talking about using a 80Mhz crystal on a 25Mhz CPU.
It's very likely that the Cpu won't survive that. I once stupidly used a 40Mhz on a 25mhz CPU and then the thing was dead.
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@Lurch
Please type
CPU
into a shell window and paste us the results.
p.s. I would not try to use an 80Mhz crystal with a 25Mhz cpu. That sounds very dangerous. If you are going to do that then please let your CPU say goodbye to her friends and family first.
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Sysinfo mostly does educated guesses about the frequency - you need something more reliable.
Use this. Never fails me:
http://aminet.net/package/util/moni/WhichAmiga
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Could a - resistor - that works as a divider on the card failed?
I doubt it needs a 50mhz oscillator to work at 25mhz.
14mhz is twice the 7mhz 68000 speed. Could the card have the wrong settings somehow?
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Ok so the crystal is 25Mhz and the CPU is 25Mhz but sysinfo is reporting 13.4Mhz?
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/professional530plus
sysinfo just guesses based on the performance of running some code, it has no idea what speed it's really run at. A lot of the time it reports incorrect speeds.
I'd check that the jumper settings are correct for the ram that is installed, look at the pdf online if you don't have a manual. Then poke around on disk as there is some software on there that you might need to use (the adf is online too).
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Nonsense! That counts only for 68040 CPU's.
My bad!!
There is a picture of a proffessional 030 from Harmac Computertechnik on "the big book of amiga hardware" who have a 66mhz crystal. And the cpus (cpu/fpu) is 33mhz
Another picture shows a 16mhz card with a 030 20mhz cpu and a 33mhz fpu..with a 40mhz crystal.
Asume those boards is OC.
Sorry for the missunderstanding.
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AIBB also confirms half the speed, although it shows the FPU at 25Mhz
There is 4MB RAM on the card.
System: 68030 68882 (INST: Cache Burst) (DATA: Cache NoBurst)
Will assume that it's halving the speed :-/ So when I finally get my 40Mhz crystal I'm assuming it'll be 20Mhz. If this is the case I'll need a 80Mhz Crystal to get the full 40Mhz CPU.
Strange card. Wont really know until I get the faster Crystal I guess.
I'd say the cache is on going by the cpu command result, also using setcpu states the same thing. There's only the one crystal on the card so don't see a separate one for the fpu.
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Will assume that it's halving the speed :-/
It is possible that the card halves the clock for the CPU but passes the full clock speed to the FPU. If you had a frequency counter you could check that.
The only thing I'd wonder is why it had a crystal that was too slow fitted in the first place. It is possible that the halving was jumper selectable, but unfortunately I don't speak german & so the pdf is no help.
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maybe the problem is sysinfo that not can identify che board.
you can try other benchmark, like aibb and compare your 68030@25 with A3000 with 030@25 by default.
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Seems the CPU frequency is divided by 2 from the xtal - the manual from amiga.resource tells it is 68030 @ 14.3 MHz. And from the pic in BBOAH seems there's another version of 33 MHz, with 66 MHz xtal.
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I did say put the 40Mhz crystal in and see what happens... :p
that's pretty much the fastest crystal you're going to be able to use, unless you can clock the FPU at half the crystal speed too ;)
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The manual tells you can clock the FPU separate with another osc (upto 33 MHz, perhaps more) and it's auto-sensed - but can't see any place in the pics to put it in.
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The manual tells you can clock the FPU separate with another osc (upto 33 MHz, perhaps more) and it's auto-sensed - but can't see any place in the pics to put it in.
nor could I? plus I couldn't read German :p
My Mega Midget Racer has spots for two crystals, you can then use jumpers to either clock the FPU at the same speed as the CPU, using a single crystal, or clock it at its own speed, using a separate crystal...
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the manual from amiga.resource tells it is 68030 @ 14.3 MHz.
Yeah, it does say that. Putting in a faster clock might cause a problem for the ram. There must be a reason for them using such a slow clock speed.
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The other fear I have reading the manual is it's stuck at 14Mhz no matter what LOL
I don't see how I can clock the FPU seperate from the CPU, but would be handy to do.
Hopefully have the crystal in the mail today/tomorrow (wishful thinking) and I can give it a go with that.
Would suck that I can only get 20Mhz out of it. Maybe I need to spend some cash on a ACA500 after all :-(
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nor could I? plus I couldn't read German :p
My Mega Midget Racer has spots for two crystals, you can then use jumpers to either clock the FPU at the same speed as the CPU, using a single crystal, or clock it at its own speed, using a separate crystal...
My VXL-32 has this option, downside to that card is I don't have the RAM module. So pointless using it as it's not much faster if at all than my 68010.
Unless someone wants to swap/trade? :-)
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Realistically, the FPU will take upto 40Mhz, but as someone mentioned, the memory might not, 30Mhz? maybe 33Mhz or even 36Mhz are all possible, but you'll still only be running the CPU at half this speed.
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My original aim was to play space quest/kings quest enhanced at a decent speed. Runs okay at 7Mhz but slow and laggy.
Then had the idea of trying Doom, which should be sorta playable at 40Mhz. So unsure about anything slower.
If I can get 33Mhz that would be good, although you mention that 40Mhz would be pushing it for the FPU to cope?
As it appears I cant seperate the two if I put a 66Mhz crystal in would the FPU fry itself? I could always remove it :-)
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The issue may be that the memory won't run at the higher speeds anyway...
try with the 40Mhz crystal, see what happens, take it from there ;)
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Must have more power :-)
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FPU should be ok at up to 50Mhz.. that's whats in mine... so, try the 40Mhz, if that works, step it up!
at least IF the 50Mhz crystal works, you'll have the CPU at 25Mhz ;)
edit: which FPU do you have? 68882? or 68881?
if the FPU doesn't work at higher speed, you can probably remove it and use a 60Mhz crystal, the specs say you can run the 68882 at upto 60Mhz, so I assume the rest of the card will accept this, I assume everything else is running at half this speed anyway.
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It has a 68882, if that's the case I'll see if I can track down a 60Mhz crystal. An extra 10Mhz would be great.
Seems weird that it should halve the speed for the CPU and not that the FPU. Have checked the board a couple of times and I can't see where you can set the FPU to be seperate from the CPU :-/
Craziness TBH.
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did you get it, did you get it, did you get it, did you get it?
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Went to the mailbox nothing there :-( Today today... come on :-)
Was looking at another accelerator a derringer through google and it has the similar setup of halving the speed.
Might get a 80Mhz and drop it in should get 40Mhz... hmmm...
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Will get those photos done tonight of the VXL-30 :-)
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if you're going to try a 80Mhz crystal, take the FPU out first :p
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So put the 40Mhz crystal in and CPU and the grand total came to 13.4Mhz :-) LOL
Back to the drawing board.
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ah, so that was new crystal, and new CPU?
interesting...
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Yep
40Mhz Crystal + 40Mhz CPU = 13.4Mhz
40Mhz Crystal + 20Mhz CPU = 13.4Mhz
40Mhz Crystal + 25Mhz CPU = 13.4Mhz
LOL
Jumpers are set to the following
JP1 OFF = 68030
JP2 ON
JP3 OFF
JP4 ON = 4MB load high
JP5 OFF = Cache on
JP6 OFF = MMU on
Jumper SP1 unsure what that does, if I move it to 1-2 Amiga wont boot 2-3 it does.
Can't see anything else on the board I can change. So busy translating the manual at the moment.
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try removing the FPU?
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Hmm, will give it a shot. :-)
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also, do you have your 68000 in the accelerator? maybe try with/without that?
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and while your amiga is apart (like it was ever together) could you please take a good quality, highish resolution pic of the accelerator? just from the top, straight down ;)
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Would love to remove the 68k but it's soldered to the board, a shame as I wanted to have the 68010 as a fall back.
Removing the FPU didn't help, so will try and take a nice photo for you. Although my camera is not the best :-)
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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8066/8159903124_d67e6d9976_k.jpg
Hopefully the link will work. :-)
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Does it run without the crystal (!).
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Have you used addmem to activate the 32 bit ram on your turboboard?
According to TBBOAH ram on this card is not autoconfigured. No (active) 32 bit ram will result in terrible performance.
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It wont result in the cpu running at 13.4mhz though :/ what does it do it "fall back" mode?
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According to TBBOAH ram on this card is not autoconfigured. No (active) 32 bit ram will result in terrible performance.
What you are saying is 100% true.
BUT....
None of this makes any sense at all.
His 32-bit ram must be active because he told us his instruction cache was enabled and using burst mode. :idea:
But then why did he have his Datacache Burst Mode disabled? :crazy:
None of this makes any sense.
Either both instruction cache and datacache should be in burst mode or neither one should be. :rtfm:
I hereby award this accelerator card the "Screwiest Accelerator Ever Award" :insane:
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What you are saying is 100% true.
BUT....
None of this makes any sense at all.
His 32-bit ram must be active because he told us his instruction cache was enabled and using burst mode. :idea:
You can turn burst mode on even if you don't have any fast ram.
The 68030 on this card always runs at 28.5 Mhz. The crystal is for the FPU only.
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RAM is configured, I have used the addmem command and also used the install disk which puts a script in wbstartup :-)
A thought I've had is it's not seeing the crystal on the card.
You can turn burst mode on even if you don't have any fast ram.
The 68030 on this card always runs at 28.5 Mhz. The crystal is for the FPU only.
Would be happy with 28.5Mhz but its 13.4Mhz :-) Whats the secret in getting the CPU to run at full speed?
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The 68030 on this card always runs at 28.5 Mhz. The crystal is for the FPU only.
is it set by the original crystal on the motherboard?
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Ok so the crystal is 25Mhz and the CPU is 25Mhz but sysinfo is reporting 13.4Mhz?
My card -
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/professional530plus
Sysinfo has no idea what clock speed your CPU is running at. It just makes a guess based on some timed loops which run at different speed on different CPUs... It probably isn't accurate on anything other than a 68000...
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Sysinfo has no idea what clock speed your CPU is running at. It just makes a guess based on some timed loops which run at different speed on different CPUs... It probably isn't accurate on anything other than a 68000...
AIBB/sysspeed all state 13 or 14.5Mhz so something weird going on here.
25Mhz Crystal
25Mhz 68030
25Mhz FPU
Maybe something software wise :-/ 68030.library?
even if it is reporting the speed wrong, it's still benchmarking as a 13Mhz CPU...
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Benchmarks as a 13.4Mhz CPU not at 25Mhz or higher. Sysinfo/Sysspeed/AIBB all the same.
Going by Mongo the Crystal is for the FPU and the CPU should be running at 28.5 Mhz.
So tonight when I get home will see what happens when I remove the Crystal and FPU from the board :-)
is it set by the original crystal on the motherboard?
If that's the case then 13.4Mhz is about right 2 x 7Mhz?
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Benchmarks as a 13.4Mhz CPU not at 25Mhz or higher. Sysinfo/Sysspeed/AIBB all the same.
Those programs measure your cpu speed by executing instructions from the instruction cache.
Maybe your instruction cache is getting errors by trying to burst from a memory area that does not support bursting.
Try disabling the burst mode on your instruction cache to see if that makes any difference. Make sure not to disable the whole instruction cache. Only the Burst Mode.
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Sysinfo has no idea what clock speed your CPU is running at. It just makes a guess based on some timed loops which run at different speed on different CPUs... It probably isn't accurate on anything other than a 68000...
If sysinfo is properly coded then it should be extremely accurate on all CPUs.
I am not saying it is properly coded.
I am just saying that if it was then using the "timed loops" method is very reliable. It would only be guaranteed unreliable on new chips released after the program was written.
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If your card is getting its Mhz from the motherboard then you could plug in a Commodore Genlock and dial up the knob and see if it increases the speed of your CPU. If your cpu speed goes up then its getting its speed from the Amiga.
Its a trick someone told me many many years ago.
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Will give it a shot Choaslord, only thing I can't try is using a Commodore Genlock. Not a piece of kit I own :-/
More to come :-)