Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Mizar on October 22, 2012, 10:20:18 AM
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Regarding cost, simplicity of installation, and retaining Amiga compatibility, which is the best choice (or compromise) for a modern Amiga system?
A) AmigaOne X1000 or similar
B) SAM motherboard
C) Mediator PCI expansion of a classic system
D) one of the FPGA systems
E) nevermind the hardware- AROS
The whole question didn't fit into the poll. Given the four factors (cost, ease of installation, Amiga compatibility, and being modern), what do you think is the overall best Amiga system to buy?
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The whole question didn't fit into the poll. Given the four factors (cost, ease of installation, Amiga compatibility, and being modern), what do you think is the overall best Amiga system to buy?
1) PowerBook G4
2) Mac Mini G4
3) PowerMac G4
Apple hardware was not listed so I voted AROS.
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AROS was also the closest thing to what I think it should be.
We need cheap commodity HW, and for the time being that means X86.
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1) PowerBook G4
2) Mac Mini G4
3) PowerMac G4
Apple hardware was not listed so I voted AROS.
Amiga systems are synonomous with hardware? I use MOS on my Apple macmini but it is not Apple hardware it is my Amiga system of choice ;)
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flawed poll. Missing all the MorphOS options
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flawed poll. Missing all the MorphOS options
That's true.
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I'd vote for some MorphOS system too.
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I went with AROS.
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I went with AROS.
Which is the most viable long term solution :)
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Poll FAIL: any kind of MorphOS system is completely missing.
:rolleyes:
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Aros is the only solution with a supposed future, the rest is for nostalgic people.
In this moment ,x86 is the way to go.
It's not the processor that matters, it's the way amiga is.
Having acess to faster and cheaper tech is what we want.
BR
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Can't get there from here. MorphOS is most likely the best choice for you however.
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I cannot say anything bad about MOS itself, it is certainly a good OS but it is in the same dead end as AOS, in the "PPC-Trap". So for me Aros is the only (realistic) way to go.
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not putting mos on the list bends the result, but maybe it was on purpose. nevertheless it doesnt influence my choice. even though im only moderately interested in other aros flavors as 68k and have sentiment for my mediator system as well as would consider a fpga solution, aros is my system of choice for all those platforms. voted: aros!
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flawed poll. Missing all the MorphOS options
Wholly agree. MorphOS systems deserve to be included if AROS systems are included.
Didn't vote.
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I cannot say anything bad about MOS itself, it is certainly a good OS but it is in the same dead end as AOS, in the "PPC-Trap". So for me Aros is the only (realistic) way to go.
Since the MorphOS team has commiteed to an ISA change in the future, this is an inaacurate and biased statement.
Also, the PPC is far from dead. New processors are introduced regularly and the top end models still outperform ARM.
Further more, all current games machines and those to be released in the near future feature extremely powerful PPC based processors.
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then I write my opinion more precisly... I have no knowledge what will be in 5 or 10 years and if and where MorphOS then will be (still on PPC, on ARM, on X86...). But I personally count time in months (not Amiga-months equivalent to 5 years in real time :-) ). So what I read from MorphOS-Team members is that it would need a longer period (several years) to change the platform to f.e. X86. And that I meant with trap, no easy or fast route to another platform. And as far as I know there is no decision yet (G5, ARM, X86).
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I'm sure my opinion won't be shared with anyone else but I think AmigaOS should have continued on as a desktop environment for Linux, much like like KDE and Gnome.
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(*) WinUAE
;-P
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No pancake option.
Fail.
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No pancake option.
Fail.
+1
This poll is a joke.
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I'm sure my opinion won't be shared with anyone else but I think AmigaOS should have continued on as a desktop environment for Linux, much like like KDE and Gnome.
How would that have worked? The internals are absolutely nothing like Linux. If you just want a window manager that looks like Intuition, there's amiwm, but a window manager does not an OS make.
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@Mizar
Alot depends on what you consider to be "Amiga".
I consider MorphOS, AmigaOS 4.1, AROS, and those many fine Amiga emulation products to be the "next" generation.
Unfortunately, at this time, your choice of operating system determines your options for hardware. Likewise, your choice of hardware determines your options for operating system.
For example, AmigaOne X1000 is the most expensive route, but includes the AmigaOS 4.x operating system. As far as I am aware, your only other choice for this hardware is Linux (not sure which distrobution they use).
My own PPC system is older and somewhat dated now, but it fits my current needs.
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redfox
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I voted for an FPGA solution.
The answer depends on what you consider a modern 'Amiga' system. To me, a modern Amiga would be something running a patched OS 3.9 with 68k programs on 2012 hardware.
Much as I love the original classic hardware (even more with modern hardware expansions), my old 1200 will not last forever so I'll need an FPGA system to replace it.
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No vote here, because none of the listed systems are Amigas :p Yes, I'm one of those pigheaded classic users :p To me there's only one way: Reverse engineer AGA/68K, and start making new chips. Too expensive? Too bad :(
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@Mizar
MorphOS and AmigaOS 4.1 are compatible with system friendly 68K Amiga software, for example Final Writer 97 and TVPaint.
I will let others speak for AROS, because I do not know.
AmigaOS 4.1 is a commercial package, distributed on CD-ROM. Updates are available for download by registered users. In general, installation is easy, if you follow the directions.
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redfox
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Hi,
I voted mediator for the classic Amiga, only because I really don't think that any new system, like the AmigaOne X1000, sam, FPGA, AROS or even the infamous MorphOS can compete with Cloanto's Amiga Forever, why try to reinvent the wheel when Amiga Forever is the easiest fastest and most up to date system there is. It can use all todays up to date hardware and the PC parts and systems are cheap and reliable. It uses the original Amiga software with little to no problems, and is even easier to use then the original classic Amiga's. It would really take a crazy person not to recognize the advantages of Amiga Forever.
but then again,
Amiga org is filled with loonies, isn't it hard hat man?
smerf
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Amiga org is filled with proud loonies
Fixed that for you.
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then I write my opinion more precisly... I have no knowledge what will be in 5 or 10 years and if and where MorphOS then will be (still on PPC, on ARM, on X86...).
I am also hoping for an architectural migration for MorphOS some time in a not too distant future. But even today (more interesting than a uncertain but potential future in 10 years from now IMHO), even still being locked into PPC, it brings you by far the best Amiga NG experience of all three (AROS, OS4 and MorphOS). And PPC Mac HW is very cheap and easy to get a hold of, so anyone wanting to experience MorphOS, can easily do it. Today.
But I personally count time in months
Wow, did we really just hear that from an AROS supporter! :lol: ;)
So what I read from MorphOS-Team members is that it would need a longer period (several years) to change the platform to f.e. X86. And that I meant with trap, no easy or fast route to another platform. And as far as I know there is no decision yet (G5, ARM, X86).
Doesn't really matter, it's here *now* in the shape it currently has, and it beats all competition! :) A fast x86 or ARM CPU would be boring without MorphOS! ;) I go where MorphOS is, that gives the best overall Amiga NG experience, no matter CPU architecture!
:)
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Would of voted MorphOS too. No option so I didn't vote.
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Hi,
I voted mediator for the classic Amiga, only because I really don't think that any new system, like the AmigaOne X1000, sam, FPGA, AROS or even the infamous MorphOS can compete with Cloanto's Amiga Forever, why try to reinvent the wheel when Amiga Forever is the easiest fastest and most up to date system there is. It can use all todays up to date hardware and the PC parts and systems are cheap and reliable. It uses the original Amiga software with little to no problems, and is even easier to use then the original classic Amiga's. It would really take a crazy person not to recognize the advantages of Amiga Forever.
but then again,
Amiga org is filled with loonies, isn't it hard hat man?
smerf
I would rather die than use Amiga forever.
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I wish PearPC could run Amiga OS Classic 4.1.
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why try to reinvent the wheel when Amiga Forever is the easiest fastest and most up to date system there is.
Indeed, why re-invent the wheel when I've got an A1200?
It can use all todays up to date hardware and the PC parts and systems are cheap and reliable.
Indeed, but why would I want emulation when I've got an A1200?
It would really take a crazy person not to recognize the advantages of Amiga Forever.
Indeed, but it would take a far crazier person to not realize that some people don't give a damn.
I would rather die than use Amiga forever.
Perhaps. Even if I would want emulation, I'd just set it up myself. Saves a bunch of cash, too.
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Regarding cost, simplicity of installation, and retaining Amiga compatibility, which is the best choice (or compromise) for a modern Amiga system
Powerbook/Mac mini/Powermac + MorphOS!
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Yes I do count in months... the speed of development is high now and there is more to come... Aros 68k as a example has very fast developed in the last 12 months and is almost completely replacing "classic" now (at least with enough horsepower behind it). So yes I do. Making jokes about the speed of development on Aros from a MOS-Fan. Really funny ... :-)
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I would've voted for MorphOS/Mac but since it wasn't included in the options I voted for AROS instead.
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flawed poll. Missing all the MorphOS options
Ah, rats... thought I had them all but guess I forgot one afterall. So, what are all the MorphOS options? It can run on most modern hardware as well, right?
No pancake option.
Fail.
I knew someone would say that! But that's all I purposely left off cause I don't know what that's about... some kind of joke.
+1
This poll is a joke.
Nah, "pancakes" for an option is the joke. :lol:
@Mizar
MorphOS and AmigaOS 4.1 are compatible with system friendly 68K Amiga software, for example Final Writer 97 and TVPaint.
I will let others speak for AROS, because I do not know.
AmigaOS 4.1 is a commercial package, distributed on CD-ROM. Updates are available for download by registered users. In general, installation is easy, if you follow the directions.
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redfox
Ok, but what I was really asking about installation was how tricky the hardware part is. Particularly, with Mediator, it sounds like there could be a few complications. First towering, then adding right angle adaptors or such, then Mediator, and then adding the PCI components separately. Even SAM, installed in a regular PC if I understand correctly, might have a trick or two involved to it.
Hi,
I voted mediator for the classic Amiga, only because I really don't think that any new system, like the AmigaOne X1000, sam, FPGA, AROS or even the infamous MorphOS can compete with Cloanto's Amiga Forever, why try to reinvent the wheel when Amiga Forever is the easiest fastest and most up to date system there is. It can use all todays up to date hardware and the PC parts and systems are cheap and reliable. It uses the original Amiga software with little to no problems, and is even easier to use then the original classic Amiga's. It would really take a crazy person not to recognize the advantages of Amiga Forever.
smerf
But Amiga Forever is emulation over another OS, not a base OS the system boots into. So, that's why I didn't include it. And I don't understand why you associate this with Mediator, in particular. Mediator can also use AmigaOS 4.1, AROS, and probably MorphOS, if I'm not mistaken.
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I wish PearPC could run Amiga OS Classic 4.1.
Well PearPC was updated to 0.5.0 quite recently... It might be worth investigating: http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/
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flawed poll. Missing all the MorphOS options
Trick question. Amiga is a classic computer from the late 80's early 90's. There is no compromise. Mona Lisa print anyone?
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1) PowerBook G4
2) Mac Mini G4
3) PowerMac G4
Apple hardware was not listed so I voted AROS.
Hi,
@itx
You will never live this down. I will haunt you with I voted AROS the rest of the time you are on Amiga.org. LOL. ;>)
This is great.
smerf
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Indeed, why re-invent the wheel when I've got an A1200?]
so do I, but Amiga Forever works way much better, I don't have to use degrader, or hold mouse buttons for pal or ntsc, or switch for OCS or AGA. AF just works.
[Indeed, but why would I want emulation when I've got an A1200?]
see above post plus add I paid $29.95 for Amiga Forever, and it acts just like an A1200 but it also has added features, you know a car is a car it will get you from point a to point b but Rolls Royce will do the same but has a lot of added features. It is luxary that counts.
[Indeed, but it would take a far crazier person to not realize that some people don't give a damn].
So color me crazy, I likes the easy use, and for not giving a damn, the only person your hurting is you and that could even be crazier
[Perhaps. Even if I would want emulation, I'd just set it up myself. Saves a bunch of cash, too.
]
Yes I have e uae running on Linux, spent many hours setting it up, and it still doen't have all the features as Amiga Forever. Face it, I am lazy, and Amiga Forever has done all the excellent work for me.
This was an announcement for Amiga Forever and I approve this message
smerf
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Hi,
Just getting even for no pancake option, as you can see I am a pancake fan you miser.
And look what you did to poor itx, he had to vote for AROS, and I know that really hurt.
By the way anyone know the price of an AmigaOne X1000?
itx while I am busting you are there any morphos program packages, I might give morpos another try, since it is sitting on my desk completely not used. I really hate busting an OS with the fastest load up time I have ever seen, also do you know if a usb floppy drive works with the mini mac. Haven't tried it but maybe I am sort of swinging towards morphos a very little
smerf
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I would rather die than use Amiga forever.
Hi,
Can I watch
Just think if you die, then you will never really know how good Amiga Forever really was.
And then again if you die it would make me very sad, since there would be one less Amiga user in the club.
SO DON'T DO IT, AMIGA ORG FORBIDS IT
smerf
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No, absolutely not, Kesa can't die.
And Smerf, we agree on something. AmigaForever is pretty cool.
Cloanto let me have a copy of this and C64 Forever.
Neat stuff.
BTW - The best modern Amiga will be whatever Trevor Dickinson (@ Aeon) and Paul Gentle (@ Varisys) come up with to succeed the X1000.
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@Mizar
AmigaOne X1000 comes preassembled. I am not sure if there is a choice for the case.
There are several options available for Sam460ex ...
- a preassembled system called AmigaOne 500
- custom solutions with Sam460ex motherboard, choice of case and other optional components
- Sam460ex motherboard + optional other optional components
If you have assembled your own PC from scratch, assembling a Sam460 system is very similar.
However, the Sam460 uses very little power, so you have to use a smaller wattage power supply or add extra drives to bring the power consumption up to the rating of the power supply.
I have never towerized a classic Amiga system so I can't respond to that.
I purchased my PPC motherboard near the end of 2004 and assembled my own system from scratch. I used an Antec Minuet-II case and 220 Watt power supply. This was sufficient for my hard drive and DVD-combo drive. The OS was included on a CD and was very easy to install. In those days, the OS was called AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release Update 1. I was not a developer or beta tester, just an interested user who wanted a new system to replace my ancient A2000HD.
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redfox
MicroA1 + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 5
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I voted Aros because of the underlined "modern" word in the title, otherwise I might have voted one of the FPGA systems instead.
Another reason for voting Aros is simply because of the flexibility of this NG Amiga variant, where it to a certain degree is hardware independent. It has also been proven that Aros can be ported to other CPU architectures besides x86 as well.
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The Sam and for MOS users, we wait someday that MOS run on the Sams..... because it will be interesting for me very much.
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Can someone create a new poll and include the MOS options and any other crazy combo they can think of? I'm EXTREMELY curious which way it would go.
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Ok, let's clear up this MorphOS misunderstanding. I actually was asking about Amiga hardware options when submitting the poll about which is the best Amiga system. Hence, the last option, "nevermind the hardware- AROS" actually was meant to be all-encompassing for any and all software options on other than Amiga hardware (except for emulation- that's non-Amiga only pretending to be Amiga, regardless of how good of a job it might do). The better wording for the last option could have been "nevermind the Amiga hardware- AROS, MorphOS, etc." I thought Amiga hardware would be understood, and even the omission of specific OSs could have been understood to fit in that category. But, it seems one must be extremely precise in wording on Amiga.org. :laugh1:
MorphOS users, take note: Hence, the AROS option is the same as a MorphOS option! I wasn't even asking for a choice between the two, as they both run on non-Amiga hardware (and Amiga hardware in some cases). That choice was essentially any non-Amiga hardware option. Now MorphOS users can select their option.
Hi,
Just getting even for no pancake option, as you can see I am a pancake fan you miser.
And look what you did to poor itx, he had to vote for AROS, and I know that really hurt.
By the way anyone know the price of an AmigaOne X1000?
Pancakes, indeed. :confused:
As just explained, the AROS option was actually the "other than Amiga hardware" option, which included not only AROS, but MorphOS, and any other Amiga connected base OS. So Itx selected the correct one- that is assuming he uses MorphOS on his Mac (he didn't actually specify).
Yes, I recently looked it up, and the X1000 costs right around $3000. Probably a bit more with the shipping. Sounds like a lengthy wait to receive one, too.
@Mizar
AmigaOne X1000 comes preassembled. I am not sure if there is a choice for the case.
There are several options available for Sam460ex ...
- a preassembled system called AmigaOne 500
- custom solutions with Sam460ex motherboard, choice of case and other optional components
- Sam460ex motherboard + optional other optional components
If you have assembled your own PC from scratch, assembling a Sam460 system is very similar.
However, the Sam460 uses very little power, so you have to use a smaller wattage power supply or add extra drives to bring the power consumption up to the rating of the power supply.
I have never towerized a classic Amiga system so I can't respond to that.
I purchased my PPC motherboard near the end of 2004 and assembled my own system from scratch. I used an Antec Minuet-II case and 220 Watt power supply. This was sufficient for my hard drive and DVD-combo drive. The OS was included on a CD and was very easy to install. In those days, the OS was called AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release Update 1. I was not a developer or beta tester, just an interested user who wanted a new system to replace my ancient A2000HD.
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Thank you, redfox. Finally someone answered one of my main questions about the installation of hardware. At this point, I'm definitely thinking either SAM or Mediator is the best choice. (And AROS for an existing laptop.)
Trick question. Amiga is a classic computer from the late 80's early 90's. There is no compromise. Mona Lisa print anyone?
I think that should be from mid-80s to mid-90s, even for Commodore. And then Escom AG extended it through at least '96.
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MorphOS users, take note: Hence, the AROS option is the same as a MorphOS option! I wasn't even asking for a choice between the two, as they both run on non-Amiga hardware (and Amiga hardware in some cases). That choice was essentially any non-Amiga hardware option. Now MorphOS users can select their option.
SAMS or x1000 arent amiga hardware, last amiga hardware was a1200, a4000, cd32.
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SAMS or x1000 arent amiga hardware, last amiga hardware was a1200, a4000, cd32.
Yes, well technically they're not pure Amiga hardware, of course. But they're Amiga-ized hardware, so I've included them.
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@mizar
Then a macmini, powerbook or powermac with mos are "amiga-ized" hardware.
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@Mizar. I don't approve of this stereotyping. I never picked you for a racist.
;)
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It's very insightful that people think FPGA system(s) are the better choice for a 'modern' Amiga system than X1000/SAM boards and we are not exactly drowning in FPGA options are we?
I think it's time to admit that OS4 on 'next gen' hardware isn't going anywhere.
Hopefully in the future there will be more FPGA options for use 68k users (eg CloneA, FPGA Arcade and FPGA accelerators for classic HW). I personally think a fast (cheap) FPGA 68k computer with RTG/LAN/USB + a customized AROS 68k OS is the future for a modern Amiga.
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It's very insightful that people think FPGA system(s) are the better choice for a 'modern' Amiga system than X1000/SAM boards and we are not exactly drowning in FPGA options are we?
I think it's time to admit that OS4 on 'next gen' hardware isn't going anywhere.
Hopefully in the future there will be more FPGA options for use 68k users (eg CloneA, FPGA Arcade and FPGA accelerators for classic HW). I personally think a fast (cheap) FPGA 68k computer with RTG/LAN/USB + a customized AROS 68k OS is the future for a modern Amiga.
Someone needs to write a fully modern browser for 68k for that to be the case...
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Someone needs to write a fully modern browser for 68k for that to be the case...
Was that a nudge ;)
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@mizar
Then a macmini, powerbook or powermac with mos are "amiga-ized" hardware.
What? :huh: Of course they are not! Those are Mac system hardware- in what way are they connected to Amiga? That MOS is installed makes it an Amiga-ized system via software only. You do understand the difference between hardware and software?
@Mizar. I don't approve of this stereotyping. I never picked you for a racist.
;)
A hardware racist, hmm? :lol:
It's very insightful that people think FPGA system(s) are the better choice for a 'modern' Amiga system than X1000/SAM boards and we are not exactly drowning in FPGA options are we?
I think it's time to admit that OS4 on 'next gen' hardware isn't going anywhere.
Hopefully in the future there will be more FPGA options for use 68k users (eg CloneA, FPGA Arcade and FPGA accelerators for classic HW). I personally think a fast (cheap) FPGA 68k computer with RTG/LAN/USB + a customized AROS 68k OS is the future for a modern Amiga.
Yes, exactly! I noticed that too, as FPGA was ahead of X1000, SAM, and Mediator in the poll. And I even underlined the word "modern".
That sounds like a nice Amiga system you describe, except I would hope it would use OS4. It would also be a truer Amiga than most of the Amiga options currently.
Someone needs to write a fully modern browser for 68k for that to be the case...
Or maybe it's a chicken or the egg thing. Maybe the aforementioned FPGA system has to be developed for the fully modern 68k browser to be written.