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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Michele31415 on October 10, 2012, 10:32:26 PM
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Hmm - while playing around with trying to get my GVP Spectrum board to work. I thought that maybe that it was running out of space. But as soon as I gave the "2632" command to activate the 112 meg. on my DKB 2632 board, the machine locked up - no reponse to keyboard or mouse.
When I pulled out the Spectrum board and rebooted, the 2632 command worked fine. So is there something about these two boards that don't play nice together? Does anyone have a configuration with a GVP Spectrum 28/24 on a 2000 and a DKB 2632 ram expansion that actually works? :confused:
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Someone? I'm still stuck trying to figure out why my DKB 2632 locks up the machine when the Spectrum board is installed (without even installing any of the Spectrum software). I'm not even sure where to begin looking for a cause. Help!
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Can you put the output of "ShowConfig" into a reply here so we can see the memory address space that the 2632 is using. As well, what Kickstart do you have?
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Sure - thanks for the reply. ShowConfig gives me:
PROCESSOR: CPU 68030/68882fpu/68030mmu
CUSTOM CHIPS: ECS NTSC Agnus (id=$0030), ECS Denise (id=$00FC)
VERS: Kickstart version 40.63, Exec version 40.10, Disk version 45.1
RAM: Node type $A, Attributes $5 (FAST), at $1000000-$7FFFFFF (112.0 meg)
Node type $A, Attributes $605 (FAST), at $200000-$5FFFFF (4.0 meg)
Node type $A, Attributes $703 (CHIP), at $400-$1FFFFF (~2.0 meg)
BOARDS:
CBM A2630 68030/RAM card: Prod=514/81($202/$51) (@$200000 4meg Mem)
CBM A590/A2091 HD controller: Prod=514/3($202/$3) (@$E90000 64K)
Board (unidentified): Prod=4626/23($1212/$17) (@$EA0000 64K)
Board (unidentified): Prod=3643/18($E3B/$12) (@$EB0000 64K)
Board + ROM (HD?) (unidentified): Prod=3643/19($E3B/$13) (@$EC0000 64K)
This is with the Spectrum board not in the system.
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You may try the MMULib package (see Aminet) as an alternative to the 2632 command.
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Okay, and if can ge the output again without the 2632 and the Spectrum board installed. I just wanted to see the default memory spaces each board were attempting to use.
I have not tried the solution offered by cha05e90, but try that too!
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"without the 2632 and the Spectrum board installed."
Do you mean with neither board installed or "with the 2632 not installed but the Spectrum is installed"?
I think I'll try MMUlib first since it's kind of a pain to pull the 2632 off the back of the 2630. Thanks for the suggestion - at least now I have something to try.
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Sounds like you're trying to exceed your Zorro II Memory Address space, maybe you could remove all cards and try with just the 2630, 2632 and Spectrum?
Robert.
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You cannot have more than 8MB 24-bit RAM, so the 2630 has 4MB (yes it uses the 24-bit address space!), the GVP Spectrum probably has 4MB and the 2091 has some RAM on it too?
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OK, here is a ShowConfig with the Spectrum board back in the system.
PROCESSOR: CPU 68030/68882fpu/68030mmu
CUSTOM CHIPS: ECS NTSC Agnus (id=$0030), ECS Denise (id=$00FC)
VERS: Kickstart version 40.63, Exec version 40.10, Disk version 45.1
RAM: Node type $A, Attributes $605 (FAST), at $200000-$5FFFFF (4.0 meg)
Node type $A, Attributes $703 (CHIP), at $400-$1FFFFF (~2.0 meg)
BOARDS:
CBM A2630 68030/RAM card: Prod=514/81($202/$51) (@$200000 4meg Mem)
CBM A590/A2091 HD controller: Prod=514/3($202/$3) (@$E90000 64K)
Board (unidentified): Prod=4626/23($1212/$17) (@$EA0000 64K)
Board (unidentified): Prod=3643/18($E3B/$12) (@$EB0000 64K)
Board + ROM (HD?) (unidentified): Prod=3643/19($E3B/$13) (@$EC0000 64K)
Board (Viona Development): Prod=2193/1($891/$1) (@$600000 2meg)
Board + ROM (HD?) (Viona Development): Prod=2193/2($891/$2) (@$ED0000 64K)
The Spectrum board is the last two lines labeled "Viona Development". The other boards in the system are an Xsurf3CC network card and a Deneb USB. So if I'm adding correctly, we've got 4 meg + 64K + 64K + 64K + 2 meg + 64K, which is less than 8 meg.
Am I reading that right? I'd hate to have to pull either the Deneb or Xsurf just to be able to run the Spectrum.
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I think there's something else going on. I have a 2632 as well and it is VERY unstable as soon as I add the memory to the system with the 2632 command, often resulting in the symptom you describe.
We had another thread on here a while back where someone reported an old fix from Dave Haynie for a possibly-related DMA problem that involved adding a resistor between pins on the CPU slot. Or was it the 68000 socket? Either way, the details were too vague for me to attempt it. Anyone know more about this?
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I have the same combination of GVP spectrum and A2632 in my A2500 with no problems at all. The 2632 has been extremely stable for me. As I remember, for certain configurations, the 2632 command has to be in the right place in the startup-sequence. I can take a look at where I've put the command in my startup file. I think there should be intructions about this in a file on the 2632 disk.
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Thanks - it's useful to know that there's at least some configuration in which those two boards will work together.
The DKB documentation suggests putting the 2632 command as close to the top of the startup-sequence as possible but I never got around to that. I've always just been typing it into a shell once the WB is loaded. I suppose I can try that. If that doesn't work, I'll try the MMU util.
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Thanks - it's useful to know that there's at least some configuration in which those two boards will work together.
The DKB documentation suggests putting the 2632 command as close to the top of the startup-sequence as possible but I never got around to that. I've always just been typing it into a shell once the WB is loaded. I suppose I can try that. If that doesn't work, I'll try the MMU util.
That should be the way to go. The 2632 driver needs to be loaded before the monitor file for the spectrum, as I remember, for it to work.
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The DKB2632 memory is extended memory which configures above 24 bit address space so the 8MB 24 bit/Zorro2 limit is NOT affected by this board! The most likely problem is a voltage drop on the +5 rail when both boards are installed.
Unfortunately, both the DKB2632 and A2630 have some design bugs which make them voltage and heat intolerant (as well as an overclocking nightmare).
... and since, I don't like repeating myself:
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=33672
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Interesting thread. I guess it's time to break out the DVM and check the +5 v. rail. After all, the power supply is nearly 30 years old. While we're at it, does anyone know what the current draw of the Spectrum board is? I've been unable to find that anywhere.
Right now, I'm running the 2630, 2632, 2091 with a 105 meg. Quantum hard drive, the Deneb, the X-Surf, a 2 gig. SCSI drive, an 8 gig. thumb drive in the internal Deneb slot, a CD drive, the 3.5" floppy, and a 5.25" floppy. Too much?
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OK, I checked the voltages with my DVM and got this:
+12 v = 12.06
+5 v. = 5.17
-5 v. = -4.89
-12 v. = -12.34
Just for laughs I also scoped each one and they're all flat as a rail.
This was with all of the cards inserted, including the Spectrum. I let the machine boot up completely and the voltages remained steady. I think the positive voltages are OK, but I'm a bit concerned about the negatives. OTOH, I don't know what the tolerences are for these in the 2000.
Are there any voltage adjustments in the Amiga power supply?
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Where did you measure the +5 volt supply? There is significant voltage drop from the PSU connector to mobo to expansion slot. Try measuring it on the A2630 or DKB2632 boards. There should be a small VR in the A2000 PSU you can tweak but if you've got good voltage readings that won't be necessary.
The second problem is the DKB2632 design bugs which result in poor EMI/RFI noise immunity. They are more complicated to solve but you could try moving your expansion boards to the left most slots and rerouting the SCSI cable to see if that helps.
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Hmm - I hadn't considered that. I measured the + voltages off an unused Molex connector and the negative voltages right on the mobo connector. It's still on my bench, so I suppose I can try to pin down (heh heh) some +5 v. point on the 2630 and measure again.
But I'm really thinking now that it's more likely a software issue. My experience with power problems has been that they cause random crashes even when the machine is just sitting there idling. This crash only happens when I give the 2632 command and the Spectrum board is in place.
UPDATE:
I measured the +5 v. on the 2632 from a conveniently located bypass cap and got 5.01. I also checked on the Spectrum board too and got 5.07.
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I have found that the 2632 program has a resident module which seems to be incompatible with 3.x but it only fails on reboot. Its possible (but unlikely) that this resident is not compatible with some older RTG software.
You can test this by booting with no startup-sequence via bootmenu and then run 2632 from the Shell. You could also use 2632 -r to add memory without the resident module.
If that doesn't help try 2632 -m0 which lowers the priority of 2632 memory to the same as auto-config fast memory. It won't be accessed until the auto-config fast memory is used up. This will help determine if the DKB2632 memory is failing itself.
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Thanks for the ideas. The first thing I tried was the no startup-sequence boot with the Spectrum board installed. I gave the 2632 command from the CLI prompt and it instantly locked up the machine.
Next I tried 2632 -r after doing a normal boot. Instant lock-up.
After rebooting again, I tried 2632 -m0. Same thing.
Then I tried putting the 2632 command in the startup-sequence right at the beginning. This made the machine not boot at all (never displayed anything other than a black screen).
So I pulled the Spectrum board and rebooted. But now it still wouldn't boot. That's as far as I've gotten today. Is this perhaps a clue though?
Even with the Spectrum board out, the 2632 command only works if given from a shell after the startup-sequence has run. Putting it at the top of the s-s as DKB recommends causes the machine to freeze. Sort of one step forward and two steps back. ???
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Have you tried different SIMM modules and also checked the jumpers to make sure you have the right settings set for the sizes? I had issues like that and I had to do a lot of testing to make some of my 16MB SIMMs work.
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I would suggest posting your s-s but if the 2632 command fails with no s-s then you clearly have problems with the DKB2632 or the SIMMs themself. You can try the 2632 -d command which will give some you info about the memory config and bank size but won't fix anything.
The next step is to clean or replace the SIMMs and re-seat the socket mounted chips on the DKB2632. You can also try a memory tester program with out running the 2632 command.
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"Have you tried different SIMM modules and also checked the jumpers to make sure you have the right settings set for the sizes?"
The 2632 was fully populated to 112 MB when I bought it. I checked the jumpers and they're correct. Changing SIMMs is not an option since I don't have any others.
"You can also try a memory tester program with out running the 2632 command."
OK, I ran memcheck (from Aminet memcheckBH.lha) and got this:
Testing 2632 memory (addresses $01000020-$07FFFFFF)...no errors found.
Testing expansion memory (addresses $00200020-$005FFFFF)...no errors found.
Testing chip memory (addresses $00000420-$001FFFFF)...no errors found.
Ran it two more times for good measure - same results.
I couldn't run memcheck without running the 2632 command first because then memcheck did not see the 2632 memory. And of course, this is with the Spectrum board out since I can't give the 2632 command at all when it's in the system.
Running the 2632 -d command gives this:
2632 Resident Memory Utility, Version 2.0
Address 01000000 Size 07000000 Priority 5 Name 2632 memory
Address 00200000 Size 00400000 Priority 0 Name expansion memory
Address 00000400 Size 001FFC00 Priority -10 Name chip memory
I still think it's odd that the 2632 command works fine when issued form a shell but crashes the machine when put in the s-s. I have no stability problems from the 2632 when it's invoked from the shell. I run in super hi-res, open bunches of windows, run AWeb, all kinds of stuff for hours without issue.
Would it be worth trying to figure out what line in the s-s file somehow magically lets the 2632 command work without crashing the machine?
I also still have to try the MMUlib idea.
UPDATE:
I installed MMUlib and much to my surprise, it completed normally. I rebooted, but now what? The 2632 RAM is not present automatically. What do I have to do get the effect of the 2632 command? I browsed the considerable MMUlib documentation which only made me even more confused.
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what happens when you COLD boot with the 2632 command in the SS?
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"what happens when you COLD boot with the 2632 command in the SS?"
Nothing. I hear a little bit of disk activity and then it just stops. The screen never lights up. I haven't tried this since installing MMUlib though. Do I still need the 2632 command?
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I never tried MMUlib with my DKB2632 but you should be able to edit the MMUconfig file to add non-autoconfig memory with out the 2632 command.
I noticed you have some additional auto-config devices in your Show config report. Is is possible you have some s-s drivers for theses devices which are not compatible with the extended DKB2632 memory?
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I was thinking the same thing... perhaps a non-standard library in libs: somewhere too. Booting off another device with a plain vanilla OS and issuing the commands from there?
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I have the 2632 command after SetPatch in my Startup-Sequence.
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MMULib: You need to build a MMUConfig for your memory configuration. In MMULib/Install should be an ARexx scipt named "BuildMMUConfig" that can do this automatically for you
Please read the MMU.guide in MMULIb/Docs - the section in that guide you need is called "Installation/Bonus feature for experts/For systems with non-autoconfiguring memory". I found it a very good and understandable read and since then I never looked back for the "2632" command.
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Thanks very much for the additional suggestions. I've been puzzling over my startup-sequence and I'm afraid I have to admit I have no idea of what half that stuff is doing or how it got in there. All I know is that if the 2632 in placed at the top of the file, the machine won't boot. If it's run by hand after the s-s completes, then it works. Here's the file:
PsdLoadModule DEVS:input.device QUIET ;Added by Poseidon-Installer
; $VER: Startup-Sequence_HardDrive 45.1 (25.11.00)
; Startup-Sequence for hard drive systems
If Exists C:IDEFix
C:IDEFix
EndIf
C:SetPatch QUIET
C:PatchOpenWB
C:Version >NIL:
C:AddBuffers >NIL: DF0: 15
FailAt 21
C:MakeDir RAM:T RAM:Clipboards RAM:ENV RAM:ENV/Sys
C:Copy >NIL: ENVARC: RAM:ENV ALL NOREQ
Resident >NIL: C:Assign PURE
Resident >NIL: C:Execute PURE
Assign >NIL: ENV: RAM:ENV
Assign >NIL: T: RAM:T
Assign >NIL: CLIPS: RAM:Clipboards
Assign >NIL: REXX: S:
Assign >NIL: PRINTERS: DEVS:Printers
Assign >NIL: KEYMAPS: DEVS:Keymaps
Assign >NIL: LOCALE: SYS:Locale
Assign >NIL: LIBS: SYS:Classes ADD
Assign >NIL: HELP: LOCALE:Help DEFER
BindDrivers
C:Mount >NIL: DEVS:DOSDrivers/~(#?.info)
C:LoadMonDrvs
;IF EXISTS DEVS:Monitors
; IF EXISTS DEVS:Monitors/VGAOnly
; DEVS:Monitors/VGAOnly
; EndIF
; C:List >NIL: DEVS:Monitors/~(#?.info|VGAOnly) TO T:M LFORMAT "DEVS:Monitors/%s"
; Execute T:M
; C:Delete >NIL: T:M
;EndIF
SetEnv Language "english"
SetEnv Workbench $Workbench
SetEnv Kickstart $Kickstart
UnSet Workbench
UnSet Kickstart
C:AddDataTypes REFRESH QUIET
C:IPrefs
C:ConClip
Path >NIL: RAM: C: SYS:Utilities SYS:Rexxc SYS:System S: SYS:Prefs SYS:WBStartup SYS:Tools SYS:Tools/Commodities
SYS:System/REXXMast >NIL:
IF EXISTS S:User-Startup
Execute S:User-Startup
EndIF
Resident Execute REMOVE
Resident Assign REMOVE
C:LoadWB
EndCLI >NIL: