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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: darksun9210 on October 06, 2012, 03:35:36 PM
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Hi all,
just got myself an A3000 after lusting after one for all these years.
she's a little battle damaged, but nothing a little squeeze with the right tools :hammer: , and a quick rub down won't fix.
it's a rev9 mainboard with a rev 7 daughter board.
now. problems.
learnt that she won't boot without the expansion board. just get what looks like chipram error green screen.
keyboard doesn't really work. no caps lock light, and open up a shell window and just get " ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' " as though a key is stuck. even disconnecting the keyboard and it still persists in the " ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' " is this a CIA problem? - scratch that, keyboard doesn't seem to be playing ball at all! XD
there are no terminator blocks in the sip sockets, yet she boots just fine with one 52Mb scsi drive, and no external devices. leave as is? is this right? going to swap out with an acard scsi/ide bridge and IDE CF adapter.
ram. got 8 zip chips in the fast ram sockets, so should see 4MB from what i figure, but can only see just under a meg at workbench. any ideas? nothing really launches at startup, as she's got workbench 2.0 installed, and when booted more than 2000000bytes chip ram is available. i've moved the zips around to see if anything changes, but no difference - update, think i figured it. i think they are 256kx4 chips, so i do only have 1 meg of fast. kind of a good thing - shows that all the sockets are working :)
the battery's been removed, but there is a little bit of corrosion on the mainboard. what do i do to clean it up?
other than that, ordering myself some 3.1 roms, and some more zips.
many thanks for any help :)
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- try swapping the CIAs to see if that changes your keyboard problem, one is possibly hosed
- the very short SCSI cable does actually work without a terminator most of the time but I'd add proper termination nonetheless - if you can't find a proper resistor pack for the mainboard an external terminator is fine as well (Macintosh style) - and more practical when you want to use external drives
- ZIPs come in 1Mx4 (xx4400) or 256Kx4 (xx4256) sizes, the latter add only 1 MB per bank
- the ZIP chips may also be xx4402 or xx4258 - these are static column chips that are slightly faster with an '030)
- you can't mix 1Mx4 and 256Kx4 chips
- if you've only got 256x4 ZIPs and can't fill all banks you can empty the first bank, move those chips up and refill the first bank with easier to get 256Kx4 DIPs
- if you mix static column and fast page chips the first bank must not be all static column
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ah cool, ok, so CIA's are linked to keyboard control. good. i wasn't sure. i'll give them a swap and see what happens.
that's good info regarding the memory, vesalia website seems to show that they have some km51440az zips in stock in packs of 4. ordered 8 packs, and an indivisionECS, and 3.1roms, but haven't recieved an order confirmation email yet....
aaanyway, lets swap those CIAs
thought. if i put a 5pin din to ps2 adapter on the A3000, can i use an A4000 keyboard just to rule out what works and what doesn't?
---update---
swapped the CIA's nothing's changed. managed to break a leg on pin 9 by being a little bit ham fisted. :grr: but wedged a piece of wire in there to make the connection. still no life from the keyboard... :/
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Congrats!!! Once she is up and running you will be happy.
What expansion board are you referring to? A 3000D will not boot without the Daughter Board, you will receive a yellow flashing screen.
Cleaning after battery damage. Lots of ways to go on this one. I would take out the entire MB and blow the dust out and perhaps rubbing alcohol to clean it up. End with apple vinegar or something similar to neutralize acid. I clean all my sockets and slots with a circuit board cleaner from radio shack. If you want to mount a battery there are many discussions on a.org about the best way to go. I personally like having a battery in my systems, although it is not mandatory.
For the keyboard try some different cia's to start with...
Keep us posted.
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ah cool, ok, so CIA's are linked to keyboard control. good. i wasn't sure. i'll give them a swap and see what happens.
that's good info regarding the memory, vesalia website seems to show that they have some km51440az zips in stock in packs of 4. ordered 8 packs, and an indivisionECS, and 3.1roms, but haven't recieved an order confirmation email yet....
aaanyway, lets swap those CIAs
thought. if i put a 5pin din to ps2 adapter on the A3000, can i use the A4000's keyboard?
---update---
swapped the CIA's nothing's changed. managed to break a leg on pin 9 by being a little bit ham fisted. :grr: but wedged a piece of wire in there to make the connection.
The typical 5 pin to ps2 adapter works and will allow the use of a 4000 keyboard.
if you cant find zips, i do stock the 1mx4 at http://www.a4000t.com
To answer some earlier question.. the 3000 must have the backplane to boot. this is normal.
mech
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cool, i'll see if i can find a keyboard adapter. sure i have one somewhere...
sorry, yes, i did mean the daughter board, and yes i do get a yellow flashy screen without it :) ok good, so that's normal. right. learning lots today.
ok, battery damage. taken a photo of it, and it looks much worse properly lit with a camera flash than under the energy saving bulb in the bedroom
i've tickled it with some vinager, and some cotton buds, is that going to be enought to stop it?
Mechy, thanks for the zips offer, i'll give you a shout if i get stuck otherwise :)
---update---
tried a 5pin to ps2 keyboard adapter. brand new adapter, the bag not even been opened. plugged it, plus a known good A4k keyboard into the 3000. she wouldn't boot.
so unplugged, let the machine boot to workbench, then plugged in the adapter and keyboard. screen went grey and no drive activity. unplugged and she rebooted.
upshot is, i've found a way to reboot without switching off and back on again... :D and we now know it's something on the mainboard that's not happy.
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cool, i'll see if i can find a keyboard adapter. sure i have one somewhere...
sorry, yes, i did mean the daughter board, and yes i do get a yellow flashy screen without it :) ok good, so that's normal. right. learning lots today.
ok, battery damage. taken a photo of it, and it looks much worse properly lit with a camera flash than under the energy saving bulb in the bedroom
i've tickled it with some vinager, and some cotton buds, is that going to be enought to stop it?
Mechy, thanks for the zips offer, i'll give you a shout if i get stuck otherwise :)
---update---
tried a 5pin to ps2 keyboard adapter. brand new adapter, the bag not even been opened. plugged it, plus a known good A4k keyboard into the 3000. she wouldn't boot.
so unplugged, let the machine boot to workbench, then plugged in the adapter and keyboard. screen went grey and no drive activity. unplugged and she rebooted.
upshot is, i've found a way to reboot without switching off and back on again... :D and we now know it's something on the mainboard that's not happy.
I wonder of +5v is missing on the keyboard port?
mech
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Looking at that picture, i would put some nail harder on there also after all neutralized. That will help to protect the board more. Just open to air could continue to damage more being exposed like that.
lost
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ok, after double, and triple checking which pin supplies 5v, i got out my trusty multimeter... wait, no i didn't - i couldn't find it, so stripped the wires on a tiny PC fan and stuck the ends in the keyboard port holes and switched 'er on!
no movement. nothing. ... phew... in a twisted way.
spliced a wire from a drive power header to the 5v supply pin on the port. woohoo! all is working! both with the A3k and A4k keyboards!
now just a case of making something more permanent.
now, the battery corrosion. so i should be good with it like that? so need to put something on it to stop further oxidizing?
thanks again all :)
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ok, after double, and triple checking which pin supplies 5v, i got out my trusty multimeter... wait, no i didn't - i couldn't find it, so stripped the wires on a tiny PC fan and stuck the ends in the keyboard port holes and switched 'er on!
no movement. nothing. ... phew... in a twisted way.
spliced a wire from a drive power header to the 5v supply pin on the port. woohoo! all is working! both with the A3k and A4k keyboards!
now just a case of making something more permanent.
now, the battery corrosion. so i should be good with it like that? so need to put something on it to stop further oxidizing?
thanks again all :)
Good deal.. i would fix the fuse right in that +5v circuit if you can,since if it ever gets shorted again it may take out a trace without it :D
On the traces he is right-open copper will oxidize, i was going to suggest it,but i wanted to be sure there were traces left after cleaning before telling you to coat it lol.
mech
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hi m8
Did u buy this off eBay just reminds me of one that went for £142 but it did not have the original keyboard?
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fuses, good idea, that makes sense. :) .... where are the fuses?
i think i'm going to send this board and my a4k board off to amiga kit, as i really don't have the proper tools or skills for the jobs that need doing...
@ amiga4000freak
yeah that's the one. plus it does have a keyboard - it was in a seperate auction :D
still the guy i bought it from is very helpfull, and we'd chatted about it before hand, so i knew what kind of mess i was getting into :)
i'm still pretty stoked i've got me one of the prettiest amigas - to my eyes- out there. (if not so much the tidiest example of the genre ;) )
so to sum up.
Ram - sorted.
Keyboard - sorted.
scsi questions - sorted.
battery ... so looking at the photo, i should be good to seal it up with some nail varnish type stuff?
so far, a pretty productive evening :)
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hi m8
What did u use to clean the battery acid?
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vinager and cotton buds, although i feel this isn't really enough... what else is there that needs doing?
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I was the one you outbid me on the amiga 3000 anyway well done
How much do u think amiga 2000 with a amber scandoubler a 020 fast cpu with a scsi controller with extra ram and all the manuals for the cards is worth its in good condition
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woops, sorry about that :red face:
hmmm. not sure. sounds like you've got a fairly sweet setup. and the prices of these things seems to be heading skywards.
i got my A4k 030 with motorolin's psu mod, and a couple of other tweeks for £150 a while ago. now base 030's are going for £250+ and up. saw a vanilla A4k/040 with a couple of bits up for £500+ :O
a loaded A2k should fetch a good amount of pennies, just make sure it can run WHDLoad at least.
zorro cards seem pretty pricey just for themselves. but as with everything, you've got to have what other people want.
and they're usually, "what's in the box?" so have you got blizzard/firecracker/gvp accelerator? cybervision/picasso gfx?
i'm after ethernet cards, but dayum, Commodore A2065's at £180 each? phew! that's too rich for my blood.
but the market just seems to be going up at the moment. it's not been this pricey or busy for amiga stuff for a good while.
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full spec
Commodore Amiga 1500 / 2000
2 floppy drives
A2620 Accelerator Card
2058 expansion to 2mb
2320 display enhancer
GVP HL8/11 Scsi/Ram cntroller card
120mb hard drive
Relgase 2.1 Enhancer kit
Keyboard
Mouse
For a £110
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Might start a new thread on that one, Freak
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yeowser! all that for £110? that sounds like a pretty good bargin! that's what i paid for my first A2000 (totally stock) all those years ago.
two questions, ram on the accelerator card? (given that it's soldered) ram on the GVP card? fpu 881/882?
the accelerator's not the greatest, but there are a few 030 based jobs on t' ebay that are a resonable price. the amber card is probably the most coveted item there i'd guess, what with the market for scan doublers to be able to feed flat panel TV's and the like.
sorry, getting off topic a bit :)
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Yeah, new thread time
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ok, well, thanks everyone for your assistance :) i've learnt a bit today at least.
i'll come back to this thread if i have further issues, but now we're pretty golden :D
thanks again!
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2 other things I just thought of.
1. Snag scsiprefsmui from Aminet. Run it even if you don't have a battery, it clears amensia and you can set sync and fast scsi. Make IO lots faster. (without a battery it will not survive a cold boot).
2. You may want to reseat all the chips, may as well use some circuit board cleaner if you do.
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ah! good info :) thanks
not sure how much IO throughput this old 52MB quantum drive can push ;)
tried it with an acard scsi2ide bridge, and cf adapter with 4GB CF card.
on boot the hard disk light pulses as it scans the SCSI IDs for devices, but then takes me back to the floppy boot screen. fair enuff.
stuffed in workbench3.0 install floppy, booted, ran HDtoolbox. no devices found :(
maybe get the bus terminated, and some 3.1roms in there, and we'll be cooking on gas regarding the acard adapter and CF cards :)
i've reseated the chips, almost as a matter of course really these days i guess. :D
one thing i have noticed, plugged a microvitec 1438 into the amber output, and with the 31khz disabled, i get a nice screen, but a little bit of pixel jitter happens now and then. switch amber on, and the screen goes completely out of scan range, still see something, but it's very corrupt.
plugged the microvitec in to the 23pin RGB port via the official silver 23pin to 15pin vga adapter, and a rock solid pal display.
i take it my amber hardware is somewhat non-functional? initally tried running an NEC1780nx multiscan LCD off the amber port, but for both on or off switch positions, i got "signal out of range" notification - hence pulling the old faithfull microvitec out of storage and using that instead.
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Did you actually turn on the switch for amber and then turn on the machine? Don't think you will get a display while toggling the amber switch 15/31khz while machine is on. Pretty sure is has to be cold booted to what ever toggled format you want.
lost
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didn't think of that, ok, i'll have a look tonight :)
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Amber probably is fine. Your monitor probably can't run below at 15khz. Try adjusting the fine tuner in back of the 3000 to get rid of the occasional jitters.
If your going to expand the box pick up a Buster 11, they are fairly easy to find.
If you don't have 3.1 I would recommend you get that as well...
As you mentioned above, the market for the 3000 cards are up there, my guess is a real good 3k accelerator will always be high. Save your pennies for a Warp Engine 3040 or a Cyberstorm MKIII, they work the best in the desktop.
As far as NIC's go, the best zorro nics are the X-Surf and the Ariadne (not the II version). From my test years ago the Ariadne was the fastest nic in Amiga Zorro land. The Xsurf is a nice card also with expansion capabilities.
Video - the best zorro based video cards are the Picasso IV, Retina Z3, and the Cybervision 64. The slower cards are to slow at higher resolutions.
The best addition will be a video card and a nic. The video will greatly speed up workbench and using the amiga on a lan at decent speeds is convenient.
From my experience, much better to save up for the good stuff, it makes the 3k really nice to use daily...
Thats my 10,000,000,000 Cents (2 cents adjusted for inflation). :)
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hmmm, my microvitec can sync down to standard pal frequencies and up to most vga type stuff. i think it tops out at 1024x768 iirc... so, we'll see...
ok cool. buster 11 added to the list
Cyberstorm3+cybervision are kinda dream machine parts. :D hoping that the ultimatePPC team keep it together, and produce something for the marketplace. :)
am now on the hunt for cybervision64/3D's and zorro ethernet solutions.
did you ever hear about the ethernet controller on the wildfire A2000 accelerator - able to DMA direct into fastram. i'd like to see those performance stats! :D
3.1roms are on order, with a stack of zips :)
i want a couple of fully kitted out amiga workhorse machines, ready to rock when the impending x86 appocolypse happens :laughs:
cheers matt3k, all info more than welcome!
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Don't think you will get a display while toggling the amber switch 15/31khz while machine is on. Pretty sure is has to be cold booted to what ever toggled format you want.
Amber has no problem with being turned on and off while powered on. Your monitor may think differently. ;)
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this is what i get with amber enabled on power up :/
not sure if it's good or bad or what? the LCD flat screens i've tried just go "no signal" "out of range" "no signal" on repeat
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What is the display mode you are trying to display? have you tried something more universal? like just pal/ntsc.. pal high res etc? if there is no options for that you might have to put them in your devs/monitors drawer to get them in the screen mode prefs. (they are in storage/monitors if you are looking for them)
To me it looks like the monitor is trying to display a mode it just can't handle. Try something else maybe.
lost