Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: StevenJGore on January 21, 2004, 09:30:06 PM
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Hi,
For my new CD32-related website (see sig for link, nothing there yet though!) I was wondering about logos. More specifically, the red and white Amiga CD32 logo (as found on the front of the CD32 and most CD32 games), and the Commodore logo. Would there be any legal issues if I were to use any of these on my website pages? I'm not sure who owns what, these days, if anybody!
Thanks!
Steve.
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StevenJGore wrote:
Hi,
For my new CD32-related website (see sig for link, nothing there yet though!) I was wondering about logos. More specifically, the red and white Amiga CD32 logo (as found on the front of the CD32 and most CD32 games), and the Commodore logo. Would there be any legal issues if I were to use any of these on my website pages? I'm not sure who owns what, these days, if anybody!
Thanks!
Steve.
I'd say use it, it's not like there is anyone who can sue you.
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it's not like there is anyone who can sue you.
That's just what I was thinking!
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In theory, anyone who owns the trademarks could take action against you. They would probably just ask that the material is removed first. (...Unless it's Microsoft... :roll:)
In practice I think companies - especially those in a hobbyist/minority market - are more than happy to have sites out there spreading the word, and if that strengthens their corporate image, so much the better for them.
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Fleecy might wake up and sue you for using a boing ball or something :-P.
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I have a disclaimer on my site that says that the logos are copyright.
But, my viewpoint is that it is free advertising for amiga, so no problem IMHO....
Hehe, and if someone WERE to object to anything that they found , then it`s only a ten minute job to rectify the problem...
:-D
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blobrana wrote:
I have a disclaimer on my site that says that the logos are copyright.
But, my viewpoint is that it is free advertising for amiga, so no problem IMHO....
Hehe, and if someone WERE to object to anything that they found , then it`s only a ten minute job to rectify the problem...
:-D
Seriously, do you remember when loads of people were going to be sued by Amiga Inc. et al... and then we heard nothing from them.
They can't even defend themselves from any of the case brought against them, even ones they could have won if they had had decent, or any council... :-D
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It's free advertising for one, and secondly if you got written indefinitely permission from the original copyright holder (not A Inc.) how can they complain..
The Boing! logo was adoped by A Inc. but never was an offiical symbol that was owned and used by Commodore.. Why?? Because they adopted it too, and it wasn't originally copyrighted by Commodore. But the developer of the Boing! ball demo. So their buying the rights just doesn't hold water. A certain developer of the original "Boing!" demo holds that copyright. Or at least did hold the "rights" to it.. During the original Amiga years if you wanted to use the boing! ball, you originally had to get permission from the developer and his company to use it if you decided to, not Commodore. So arguably Commodore never had the rights to it, how could A Inc. have it. They had the demo sure, but was not done in house. That pre-dates the loraine prototype.
Plus that logo has been used by NewTek and Play Inc. too. (pre-dating A Inc's useage). I doubt Play asked permission either and it was probably registered by them before A Inc. came onto the scene (the chrome 3d one version).
It would be silly for them to attempt to say A Inc. really owns the copyright on that, because that was someone else's prior art and copyright other than Commodore..
That's why Commodore themselves used the checkmark it wasn't they didn't like the boing! symbol it just wasn't really theirs (it was the developer of that demo's) to give permission..
So I doubt it holds water that A Inc. could even seriously trademark that logo.. There's tons of prior printed art and software.. It's not my place to say who that developer was (but his name is in the a1000 case) and he still retains the ownership unless he released those rights..
He probably doesn't care and is just supporting the Amiga community. That's probably why A Inc. dropped all the fuss.. It's not even their property.. They bought Commodore registered symbols and the boing! ball is someone elses..
Hints: A2024 and X-Windows..
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This whole thread smacks of stealing one's belongings and THE RIGHT of doing so while he or she can't physically or legally defend him/herself.
Imagine you're physically lacking the power to defend your precious or emotionally precious posessions. Does this give your neighbours (or your so-called 'friends') the right to plunder you? Other people putting your 'jewels' to general display?
Disgusting! It's plain highway robbery. You're no more than vultures watching for a chance on a near dead body! I hope you're man enough to realize this.
Regards
Tjitte
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:lol:
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Hi Steve,
"AMIGA and its Boing logo, are registered trademarks of Amiga Inc."
or so . . . and you are in peace with your conscience.
Ciao
PS- only for curiosity but . . .is it correct the disclaimer at the bottom of AW.net homepage?
"AMIGA and it´s logos are registered trademarks of Amiga Inc."
Those "it's" don't stay for "it is" ?
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This whole thread smacks of stealing one's belongings and THE RIGHT of doing so while he or she can't physically or legally defend him/herself.
Imagine you're physically lacking the power to defend your precious or emotionally precious posessions. Does this give your neighbours (or your so-called 'friends') the right to plunder you? Other people putting your 'jewels' to general display?
Disgusting! It's plain highway robbery. You're no more than vultures watching for a chance on a near dead body! I hope you're man enough to realize this.
I was merely asking if certain logos were still copyrighted, mainly the red and white CD32 logo, and who owns the copyright.
I'm not interested in the Boing! ball logo because a) it's naff, b) it has no unique association with the CD32 and therefore no place on my website, and c) basic two-colour raytraced/rendered spheres with checkered patterns may have been all the rage in the early 90's, but using it as a logo in 200X is just laughable. When I booted OS3.9 for the first time, the "Get Boinged!" logo made be cringe so much, I nearly died! :-D
"AMIGA and its Boing logo, are registered trademarks of Amiga Inc."
or so . . . and you are in peace with your conscience.
If it makes me legal, I'll add it to my website! Cheers!
Steve.
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For my new CD32-related website (see sig for link, nothing there yet though!) I was wondering about logos. More specifically, the red and white Amiga CD32 logo (as found on the front of the CD32 and most CD32 games), and the Commodore logo.
If in doubt, just ask the respective owners. The worst they can say is no.
Amiga will probably have no issues with you using the name and logos they own, but I can't say the same for the owners of the Commodore name and marks.
For the most part, since you plan an information site, not one created to attack the makers of the product, I don't think they would be too concerned.
If in doubt, ask. It doesn't cost anything.
(I am not a lawyer, and neither are most of the people here.)
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Very good point, DON'T USE THE COMMODORE LOGO WITHOUT PERMISSION, the trademark owner has teeth and WILL bite!!
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Volkswagen go mental over the use of their trademark and VW in circle logo.
Last year they ordered all third suppliers to remove any reproduction / restoration item with a VW logo on not to be sold or they would be sued for selling them.
This was items like stickers, hub caps, panels thats have the VW logo embossed in them, badges, suspension parts which had the vw logo on the box, these are just to illustrate the part was suitable for VW's.
Its crazy because volkswagen havn't made most of these parts for decades, some parts went out of production 40 years ago, so people have stepped in to fill the gap in the restoration market and volkswagen say yes you can make these parts but dont put our logo on them..... Makes proper restoration jobs a bit of a nightmare now, especially if you have that eye for original detail.
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Framiga wrote:
Hi Steve,
"AMIGA and its Boing logo, are registered trademarks of Amiga Inc."
or so . . . and you are in peace with your conscience.
Ciao . . . . {snip}-
In agreement- my Home Page has:
Amiga and the Amiga Boing logo are trademarks of Amiga incorporated. All other marks, names, and logos mentioned herein are the property of their respective owners.
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DonnyEMU wrote:
The Boing! logo was adoped by A Inc. but never was an offiical symbol that was owned and used by Commodore.. Why?? Because they adopted it too, and it wasn't originally copyrighted by Commodore. But the developer of the Boing! ball demo.
Which was? As far as I'm aware the people who wrote it were RJ Mical and Dale Luck at the 1984 CES, while working for the original Amiga Inc.
So i would have thought its copyright went with all the other stuff to commodore et al. AFAIK anyway.
The CD32 logo should be with AInc too.
The Commodore logo/copyrights are currently held by Tulip computers (unless THAT's changed recently).
But unless your using them for profit, i think you're safe from any troubles.
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I remember for sure (I was an original Amiga developer with CATS) and the copyright on that was owned not by Commodore but by Dale Luck.. I also remember GfxBASE (his company) used it as their logo and you had to get permission to show it. Also just because Commodore showed off the Boing! demo doesn't mean they owned it or bought the rights.. I remember that being a serious SERIOUS issue and the explanation as to why they went with the checkmark logo instead (and the boing! was never an official Commodore logo) and Commoodore P.R. style guides forbid it's use...
So I bet Amiga Inc. probably contacted him and got permission to use it (or at least you hope they did). Their version of the Boing! Ball isn't exactly the original rendering anyway so it might not matter...
It would be interesting to hear what RJ Mical and Dale Luck has to say about this.. Even if they worked for the Amiga during lorraine development, they bought the hardware. Remember the OS was brought in from the UK after Commodore had hardware. But as far as I know Dale Luck owns the copyright and back in the "day" you had to ask Dale and RJ's permission..
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DonnyEMU wrote:
I remember for sure (I was an original Amiga developer with CATS) and the copyright on that was owned not by Commodore but by Dale Luck.
I bow to your better knowledge on that, then. I had no idea he owned it personally. A lot companies have evil contracts about what you do and do not own while you're employed by them. Even things you do in your own time!
Remember the OS was brought in from the UK after Commodore had hardware.
Only the DOS subsystem was bought from Metacomco and integrated with the rest of the Amiga OS (despite the author, Dr TIm King, claiming he wrote all of it).
In the beginning was CAOS (http://www.thule.no/haynie/caos.html).
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@Jettah,
I don't think you understand the purpose of copyright.
It is to give a creator a chance to make money off their original creations AND to consider the needs of society as a whole...copyrights in most every country have expiration dates. The purpose is NOT to prevent society from benefiting from those creations...but in fact, to ensure that it does transition to the public domain someday.
That is the other side of the coin, the needs of the creator versus the needs of society. In exchange for a period of copyright, there will eventually be public ownership.
If there is no company any longer benefiting from the copyright, and if they are no longer pursuing the copyrights, then they slip into the public domain earlier...than they would have otherwise gone to the public domain.
Actually, now I'm talking about copyright, and I think we meant registered trademarks, which is a different thing, except I will say this too....they also can slip into the public domain if they aren't defended. This is good, and the right way...if they aren't needed as trademarks anymore, the needs of society are then more important.
there is absolutely nothing wrong or sinister about it, it isn't stealing from the defenseless as you state. Its just that Amiga Inc. is essentially defunct. And besides these people aren't harming Amiga, Inc.
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@MarkTime:
Ehm, lets substitute some words and see how it than looks: Copyright becomes Car.
Essentially you than say: If you leave your car somewhere unattended for a prolonged stretch of time, than it becomes public posession...
Personally I still think that anybody taking my car, whatever state it is encountered in, is a common thief and should be dealt with accordingly.
Unless, of course, I have given permission to somebody to use the vehicle as it suits her, provided this and that, THAN she (excuse me, I am positively biased towards females :-P ) has the right to use it.
Regards,
Tjitte
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Framiga wrote:
"AMIGA and it´s logos are registered trademarks of Amiga Inc."
Those "it's" don't stay for "it is" ?
You're correct Framiga, 'It's' = 'It is' or 'It has'
['Its' viz "The cat sat on its tail"]
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Copyrights take time to slip into the public domain however.. A copyright here from 1984 wouldn't be considered public domain. Just ask Disney or Mark Twain (Sam Clements) estate what a tricky business that all really is, with copyrights trademarks at patents..