Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: lempkee on January 21, 2004, 12:10:41 PM
-
is that a fact? , i have now heard two people who
say this , connecting the bppc simply makes the computer crash ALL the time , black screens / gfx trash and 99% of all sw (ppc) doesnt work etc,
problems turning em on etc.
revision on the motherboards is 1d1.
i have an 1.4.d (older motherboard) , please help here as i need 1 new motherboard for myself + 1 more for a friend (who has a escom 1d1 obviously)
;(
cheers
-
Lempkee:
Surpised this hasnt come up before if it is true. lets hope not as some people may have dumped there cards thinking there faulty when its down to incompatibility.
My ppc card has been fine besides little timing issues on 1D.4 and 2.B revisions (Commodore)
I do remember Eyetech using 1d1 revisions for testing most of the hardware they sold so its makes it seem even more unlikely.
Here's a snip from Eyetech's site...
The main production board issued in the UK - Rev 1.D.1 - had onboard provision for hardware workarounds to fix the main bugs, notably bus timing problems in the Gayle and Budgie chips. In general these boards work fine with most combinations of expansion hardware and are the boards which we use to test A1200 expansion products on before shipment.
snip some more..
The later revisions of motherboards - particularly the revision 1.D.4 and 2.B are a different story however. These boards revisions were designed to take corrected versions of the Gayle and Budgie chips - and therefore were designed without provision for the earlier hardware workarounds. However, revised versions of the custom chips were never produced and as a consequence all but a few of the last of the AT/Escom manufactured motherboards were shipped without either bug-free chips or hardware workarounds.
info was sniped from here (http://www.eyetech.co.uk/SUPPORT/S1200/AMIGA001.HTM)
-
Are you sure its 1d.1 (escom) By the way? according to Eyetech, 2b and1d.4 (commodore) are later revisions, hmm weird.
Sounds like 1d.1 was one of the first a1200 models to ship from Commodore
-
yep escom used 1.d.1 (1992) , my 1.4.d is from 1993 and works fine..
2 people here has 1.d.1 (escom) and both report huge probs.
-
here is a picture of the PATCH on the escom mobo
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/a1200mb1d1.jpg
weird stuff if u ask me, i belived escom was the latest rev..
i need info , all i can find..
so i can atleast tell my friend to see if he can make such a patch , if not i then need 2 new motherboards (mine is nearly dead allready)
cheers
-
Ok. very weird indeed given that the 1d.4 and 2b timing issues seems to be not even present on 1d.1 boards as they seems to be top dog mobo according to Eyetech.
Be nice to know what the problem is indeed, perhaps some hardware addon is causing a conflict (clutching at straws here)
-
well i sent a idefix to this guy to see if it help (as he now use a non buffered one) , but
yesterday he unplugged the hdd and it still crashed in early boot menu etc , gfx bugs and trash etc and very unstable.
so i doubt adding the idefix will help at all.
and yes we are 100% sure that the software and hardware are 100% installed.
and the other user report same problems!
-
forgot to say , it was a clean system ..
bppc + bvision ONLY and an ide adapter (the ide adapter was removed to test, but still SAME!)
also the bvision was removed ,still SAME.
tried with a blizzard 060 and all was OK!.
the bppc works FINE (no probs what so ever in 1.4.d .)
-
calen: if 1.d1 is so top dog? why does it need the WIRE FIX ? and why is it from 92 and not 93 ? :) , other users who has this (68k only) had to deliver it to repair shops to get the fix added!
i am rather upset atm ;( , as my last resort was infact to buy a new MAGIC PACK and right now i am glad i didnt!
cheers
-
Yeah thats the one, probably the first A1200 mobo and one of the most reliable by whats been read, weird indeed. perhaps though it does need some fix.
My early ppc setup had problems to with crashing and gfx currupted on cold bootup times, this was mainly down to lack of power getting to the mobo with my blizzard vision gfx card installed. But since day one i usaly do a warm double reset to get her kicking in, i think thats more down to a timing thing though
If all ideas fail maybe you can get your friend to give eyetech a call, they are usually very helpful on these matters.
-
btw , if this is the reason why everyone said their ppc amigas was unstable and crap, well then it all start to make sense now.
sorry for the rant but i am desperate for info + i need 2 motherboards that is KNOWN to work on bppc without crashing every now and then (mine can be online for days with no probs and thats even with a broken ciaa)
-
calen:thanks for the eyetech info but he doesnt speak english so i need to call for him then , and yuck i live in norway, but yes if thats the last option then i will.
anyway my friend has a 240watt psu (normal pc AT/AT psu powering the motherboard) and hmm doesnt a normal 060 blizzard (68k only) draw more than a ppc 040 with bvision? , also his 68k soultion was zorro 2 card (cv643d and microtek zorro board for a1200) , hence if this is a power prob then its really weird...
-
1d1 is not escom product, it might be one of those they/commodore get back to repair.
They repaired a lot motherboards, and sold them back to customers.
2b is escom mother board, problems with that is because they used "old chips" to new motherboard.
-
Yeah, don't blame ya for being upset, classic ppc h/w is far from cheap and for it to not work with the Amiga out of the box just sucks, I for one would feel the same.
If i was in same boat and all else fails (there must be something though) i'd resort to ebay and pick up a dirt cheap basic a1200 with a model known to work with those cards.
Perhaps someone else here can shed some light on this problem, step up Bppc owners..
-
confirmed from the OTHER amiga escom mobo owner aswell now , he also powered it with a big psu , still same probs , he now use 1.4.d and none of them problems show up..
(though its abit buggy on 1.4.d on his setup but nothing compared to the escom mobo)
there... that out of the picture :) i hope
-
utri007
They are all originaly Commodore models, 1d.1 1d.4 and 2b. i have two of them that date back to '93, but yeah, people who bought them in the escom era probably got the same revisions, rebranded & perhaps repaired.
-
utri007: can u explain abit further please? ,
if i buy a newmagic pack now , what revision should it be? and will that WORK with bppc ?
also why doesnt 1.d.1 work with bppc? , they even have the wire fix!..
thanx, please help!
-
problem is customs here, buy a dirt cheap a1200 fro uk or germany and it will probably cost more than a brand new one due to customs here in norway.
;(
-
anyone have a full list of all revisions made of the a1200 ? , and years they was made?
and maybe most of all , the patches they need (if any)
a list over all patches would have been very nice right now.
-
Not sure what use this is to you but thought i'd post it anyway.
Eyetech-supplied Amiga International Magic Packs
Like several other Amiga dealers Eyetech has been supplying Amiga 1200 Magic packs since the became available from Amiga International in late 1997. Where applicable these packs bought from Eyetech have had the 1.D.4 and 2.B modifications already carri ied out. There are however two design limitations on these Magic Pack computers which were not present in the earlier Commodore-manufactured A1200's. These are design limitations rather than manufacturing defects and the rectification of them - although u usually possible - is specifically excluded from all warranty provisions.
These limitations are as follows:
* Some copy protected games software uses floppy disk drive signals which are not present on the Magic Pack floppy disk drives. This software - which is in a minority - will not run on the Magic Pack A1200's without the addition of Eyetechs EZ-D DF0 floppy drive interface.
* Changes to the A1200's video circuitry to meet new EC interference emission standards means that some monitors exhibit horizontal 'tearing' of the screen image when using the PC-compatible screen modes of DBLPAL, DBLNTSC, Super72, Productivity etc. (Standard 15 kHz screen modes work fine). Eyetech can undertake a (charged) modification to the A1200 main board to replace these suppression components with ones which allow the vast majority of PC-type monitors to function perfectly. However do check fi irst - you may find that your A1200 functions fine with your monitor in these screen modes without further modification.
Please contact Eyetech if you experience these symptoms and would like to arrange for your motherboard to be suitably modified.
Technical support
got from here (http://www.eyetech.co.uk/SUPPORT/SWARR/PRODU001.HTM)
-
calen: thanx but no info about ppc , really weird this...
there must be others who had problems for sure, but if that made them leave amiga etc, well i doubt they will answer here..
-
There are still quite a few Amiga owners around here with ppc cards, hopefully they will see this thread.
I think Ryu ? has more than one bppc card, perhaps he has a mixed bag of mobo revisions and can share some info.
-
If you buy now you probably will get rev 2b
-
can anyone confirm that the cable on the picture of themotherboard ( http://www.amiga-hardware.com/a1200mb1d1.jpg ) is the TIMER FIX ?
also does anyone have the documentation for it? (as i heard just a few mins ago that supposedly its more than just a cable u need to add)
anyway both motherboards mentioned earlier (escom) has this cable allready , so big question is , is it the TIMERFIX ? or not?
might solve all of this :)
-
the revision 1D1 motherboards are the best to use... AFAIK escom didnt produce any 1D1 motherboards themselves only ever repaired and shipped them out as new... as already said the 1D1 motherboards haad buggy custom chips, so C= fixed them with the rework wires you can see on the 1D1 motherboards. Revision 2B and 1D4 motherboards dont have the rework because it was expected these would get the new revisions on the custom chips which didnt have the bugs, but as already said most of them never did so they remained buggy... Now having said that I have succesfully had a BPPC with an 040 running on an original C= 1D1 motherboard for 3 years, and have just replaced it with another 1D1 motherboard and its functioning fine too... I have also had it working fine on a 1D4 motherboard but I have never tested a 2B one, I belive those to be the worse revision and were mainly produced by escom... The main problem with BPPC cards is the +5v rail... often due to the small tracks on the amiga mobo the card doesnt get a stable 5v supply so behaves erratically. The easiest way to fix this is to feed 5v into the fan connector on the BPPC but be carefull you get it all the right way round and I would suggest you get one of those little devices that cleans the current up (cant remember the name atm). That should make it work fine on all...
My 2nd BPPC is suffering because I think the +5v is dropping low... its a rev 1D4 mobo and the BPPC doesnt have the extra feed.
I hope that helps a little...
-
I have also had it working fine on a 1D4 motherboard but I have never tested a 2B one, I belive those to be the worse revision and were mainly produced by escom... The main problem with BPPC cards is the +5v rail... often due to the small tracks on the amiga mobo the card doesnt get a stable 5v supply so behaves erratically.
Yeah that was my original problem on my 1d.4 mobo, not getting the extra power so the system was quite unstable, all was fine later though with some little cable from eyetech to get the extra power fed to it.
I have also used my bppc card with bvison on a 2B board, it was pretty much as stable as the 1d.4 board after i got the power issue sorted, a double warm reset and she was OK, suffice to say i havent powered her up in some time so thats all alittle cloudy, i'm also unclear if my 2B board has had timing issues fixed as i bought it 2nd hand but i would go with no, both are Commodore models, i have no experience with any later escom rebranded boards.
-
ryu: thank you for telling that about the floppy connector, gonna try that.
but now , anyone can tell me about the timer fix? , where and why and how? .
-
calen:can you guide me to this cable? , where to find etc..
hope eyetech has em , but my guess is that he is too busy to even answer my emails if i send any..
anyway i need instructions really for both timer fix and this cable for ppc->floppy drive so i can send my friend..
cheers
-
floppy connector? fan connector... You used to be able to buy a prebuilt cable from eyetech that does the trick, and mine at least came with the filter on too.. I wouldnt use anymore power from the A1200 but instead id take the 5v line directly from your PSU and drive it straight into the fan connector.
-
infact the AT PSU i have here has a little power cable on it that fits the BPPC fan connector perfectly... and its one of the newer last AT PSU's so i dont even need to use my cable with it...
-
sending me the cable or taking a picture would be saying more than a thousand words :)
anyway does anyone know where to find this cable? , i checked my psu cables to see if there was one that would fit (just so i could explain my friends better) but there is none.
so i guess you mean one of thoose FAN connectors for atx motherboards? ..
cheers
-
My second ppc card wont work in one of my commodore amiga 1200,s revision 1d4 but works in my escom a1200 not sure what revision it is at the moment . :-)
-
@lempkee im sure you know what colours are the 5v lines right? just take them and feed it into the fan connector on the BPPC simple... as for getting hold of a connector just cut one of the led connectors in the tower or the speaker connector or whatever they are all the same size for the job.
-
@lempkee
http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/A1200_Mobo_fix/a1200_mobo_fix.html (http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/A1200_Mobo_fix/a1200_mobo_fix.html)
Ian
-
I have one of the early Revision1B A1200 released in 1992 and never had any problems with my BPPC and BVision.
-
problem is customs here, buy a dirt cheap a1200 fro uk or germany and it will probably cost more than a brand new one due to customs here in norway.
Cant you get one from datakompaniet.no?? Probably more expensive than in uk though...
-
I had the very same problems with my BPPC (random crashes/freezes with nothing but the BPPC connected to the motherboard).
Exchanging the motherboard cured this problem - but in my case, the motherboard suffering from these problems was from CBM, while the replacement board (which works fine with the BPPC) is from Escom.
I can check the motherboard revisions, but I doubt that you can come up with a formula as simple as "revision x always needs a fix, revision y never does".
-
I had an Escom A1200. BPPC and BVision worked very well on it.
-
I have a CBM 1200 with 1D.1 mainboard.
It works fine with BPPC + BVision here.
-
yes , the guys got their motherboard + ppc stable now that they added the POWER to the ppc and the fan directly from the PSU (like ryu described above) ..
so this thread is somewhat done , i would like to thank everyone for the help and i appriciate every pm and email i got + the irc help .
cheers
-
I am lucky and i bought my A1200 when they first come out, and I have got a 1a revision mobo, that seems to work fine with everything. I bought a 175/603e-040/25 of some guy for £60 about two years ago who said the board was ####ed and it worked perfectly on my mobo.
U might think, f off u gloating git. But my mobo has a had a few reapirs on it recently,due to a trace burning out and other things. So I need a new mobo.
Changes of finding one of the first revisions.....Well ive been trying for two years.....
-
Well, this may explain why my BlizPPC never worked. I have a 2B mobo and the machine was flakier than you could imagine.
-
I still don't understand why more people with Blizzard cards (especially PPC) don't use the genius little program called BlizKick. It will fix a lot of these problems with appropriate software patches (e.g. PCMCIA reset fix, etc.).