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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: djos on September 04, 2012, 04:42:04 AM
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Hi all, I've been trying to get my a500+ to use a CF-HDD via my IDE68K v402 and I've tried 2 different adapters and CF cards and I can set them up using HD Toolbox but cant format them - Format just sits there forever and does nothing.
Im currently using an AmigaKit supplied CF-HDD adapter (for the 4000, I just changed the way it's powered and seems to work fine) with the supplied Kingston 4GB CF card and I've also tried a SanDisk 4GB card with the same results.
I havent tried setting up the Kingston card in WinUAE yet but for some reason this does not translate into a working HDD using the SanDisk CF Card. My Miggy appears to start booting and then does nothing and wont even boot from floppy unless I use the boot menu to disable the CF card.
I have been setting the max transfer to 0x1fe00 whenever partitioning the cards and this setting sticks no problems.
Any Idea's?
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Ok, I stumbled across this amazing post on EAB:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=61666
Looks like I shouldn't be using the normal format option but the quick format option, I will see if that makes any difference tonight.
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Cool.. quite a good read, helped many years ago when I setup a 4gig cf card in my A1200.
Az
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Interesting, that worked and I can now boot both my CF Cards using both my CF-IDE Adapters (not at the same time of course) but it's painfully slow to startup, takes a good 4-5 mins?
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Did you format the drive with PFS3? FFS is painfully slow compared to PFS3, although I don't know why it would take a few minutes to boot up.
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Interesting, that worked and I can now boot both my CF Cards using both my CF-IDE Adapters (not at the same time of course) but it's painfully slow to startup, takes a good 4-5 mins?
Hmm, if that's FFS you're using then I suspect it was validating the disk... that would have made it take ages to boot. You can combat that with a "ValidateWait" like program such as this one:
http://aminet.net/package/util/cli/ValidateWait
If you're using any form of PFS or SFS then that was definitely not your problem as those filesystems don't have that issue.
So, after Workbench had finally appeared what was the speed like?
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I used FFS and yeah even after boot it's barely faster than a floppy drive.
I do have SFS on a floppy that amigakit provided but I've no idea how to install it?
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That extra-long boot time did remind me of the old disk validation, I can't think of anything else that would have caused such a long boot time. ValidateWait sounds good, but I seriously think the disk needs to be reformatted with PFS3 before too much goes on there.
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How do I install pfs3 and why use that instead of SFS?
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I used FFS and yeah even after boot it's barely faster than a floppy drive. I do have SFS on a floppy that amigakit provided but I've no idea how to install it?
There are literally manuals on the web on installing both SFS and PFS; keep in mind that you can recover files from a FFS based disk, due to the "overhead" it uses to protect data. Granted this slows it down. Other things to consider, in the 3.1 KS ROM waiting for it to 'spin up?" If the IDE device is not buffered, you will have speed issues. Look beyond the file system while you read the manuals.
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im just using GAYLE emulated IDE via an IDE68k v402 so i've no idea if it's buffered or not.
I must admit Im really thinking seriously about an ACA-500 + 12xx combo now. :p (it never ends)
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Looks like SFS and PFS require a 68020 so that rules them out, looks like Im stuck with FFS for now.
I wonder why it's so slow on my real miggy, using WinUAE and a 500+ HW profile (including 1mb chip & 8mb fast ram) it's very responsive by comparison.
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Found some info here:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=731751
Going to try a 512MB System partition and complete reconfig from scratch in WinUAE first and see if it speeds things up in my a500+ (currently both partitions are 1.9GB).
EDIT: based on some info in that topic, I wonder if my IDE68k is faulty?
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Normally to help speed up a booting workbench you should add some extra buffers to the startup-sequence
addbuffers=30
should be seen at the top of the s/startup-sequence, beware that each buffer eats about 20kbytes of available ram.
az
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thanks, I'll try that - I'll add it after the autoaddram for my 8mb fast ram.
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How do I install pfs3 and why use that instead of SFS?
A few reasons, the main one in your case is that PFS3 will run on any Amiga and SFS requires a 020+. PFS3 is also slightly faster than SFS in the tests I've run. The main archive comes with an AmigaGuide file which should help get you through the installation process, but it's the same as installing any filesystem on a partition once you have the handler installed. Remember the MaxTransfer settings, and check the Mask is right, and use 150 buffers since it seems the minimum recommended for PFS3. Since memory is tight, try not to create too many auto-mounting partitions if you're using PFS3.
There are several advantages to using a replacement filesystem over FFS, speed increase and no disk validation errors are the best ones, but you also get longer filenames and proper undelete ability.
If you want to stick with FFS and just increase the buffers permanently to speed it up a bit, you can change the amount it has in HDToolBox rather than adding the command to the Startup-Sequence.
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@djos Not wanting to hijack your thread but if you are still looking at a 500 plus board...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COMMODORE-AMIGA-A500-MAINBOARD-REVISION-8A-PERFECT-FAST-UK-SHIPPING-/290770253300?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item43b341f5f4
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@djos Not wanting to hijack your thread but if you are still looking at a 500 plus board...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COMMODORE-AMIGA-A500-MAINBOARD-REVISION-8A-PERFECT-FAST-UK-SHIPPING-/290770253300?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item43b341f5f4
Oooh, tempting! :D
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Looks like SFS and PFS require a 68020 so that rules them out, looks like Im stuck with FFS for now.
I wonder why it's so slow on my real miggy, using WinUAE and a 500+ HW profile (including 1mb chip & 8mb fast ram) it's very responsive by comparison.
This version of PFS doesn't require a 68020, and it's KS1.3 compatible (yes, has 68000 DirectSCSI version included):
http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/pfs3ks13
I use it on two A600's with 20GB Toshiba 2.5" drives, both 68000 and KS2.0 and it works brilliantly.
PFS eats more RAM than FFS, so I only have one Partition (my machines are only 2MB fast). Also, minimum amount of buffers required for PFS is 70, which is what I use and it's fine. :)
Backtracking a bit to your original problem, if a disk is validating then you'll just have to wait for it to complete, or it will never complete (may take ages depending on partition size). When your Workbench screen appears, select your partition that you suspect to be validating, and select Icon Information. It will tell you there under Disk State "Validating" or "Read/Write". If it's validating, let it complete. It's finally complete when the drive access light goes out (assuming your floppy drive light on your A500 light is wired as hard drive light as well).
Edit: Almost forgot to mention, validating a partition requires a certain amount of memory, dependant on partition size (larger partition = more memory required). I don't know the numbers involved unfortunately, I just remember reading about it. But yes, I'd move to PFS3 for sure.
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Cheers, I'll have a go tonight.
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Cheers, I'll have a go tonight.
If your fast ram is not AutoConfig ram, then my guess is that the validate procedure will fail simply because it starts validating before you add the memory with the "autoaddram" command... basically the validate procedure won't see the extra ram that you probably need to successfully validate the partition.
One option would be to disable it in the early bootmenu and then mount the partition later (after you run the autoaddmem command)...or something similar along those lines. Then as soon as the partition is mounted (manually), it will start validating and your 8MB fast will already be in the memory list...therefore it should validate. Again though, go the PFS3 route and discard everything I've said. ;)
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Interesting, I do have an autoconfig 8mb board on the way so it'll be interesting to see what diff that makes.
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Btw, I tried an IBM 2.5" 1.44GB mechanical HDD briefly this morning but I dont think my 25watt PSU was providing enuf juice and so my 500 would crash while booting from floppy - I prolly should have disconnected my external Floppy but ran out of time.
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This probably will not solve your speed problem, but as to the validate issue, Dave Haynie's DiskSalv2 has a Validate function to take care of that task prior to booting. I assume you could do it in UAE, or someone else's Amiga. Also, a freshly formatted disk/partition should not need validation.
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It seems to do validate the disk at each boot up - I've checked and once WB is running the Validation is finished.
It is still painfully slow even with Buffers set to 70 - the fastest I've seen it boot was with just a single 501mb FFS partition as it only took 30secs to start loading the OS and was fairly responsive once WB was loaded. As soon as I added 2x 1.7GB FFS partitions it was back to being very slow.
I did discover one other issue with the v402 IDE68k during my testing tho - because the IDE connector is to the left of the CPU the IDE cable naturally wants to drape across the CPU causing it to overheat after about an hour of running. :p I re-routed the cable a bit to prevent this happening again.
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I have no experience with your IDE device, so I'm asking the same thing you are asking, "What are other peoples experience with it and CF cards?" I know Amiga IDE is slow without a dedicated and buffered interface, and CF cards slow that down even further, but (once the PSU issue is resolved) if your IDE works OK with a real HDD (which has an internal buffer) what kind of performance can be expected from a CF card?
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Arrrgh, got one of my 4GB CF cards working perfectly in WinUAE with PFS3 (not DS - dunno what the diff is either) using ClassicWB on a 500mb system part with a 3.3GB Data part and it wont boot in my real miggy! :confused:
I get the drive clicking in 15seconds (vs 2mins with FFS) and I see HDD activity for about 1 min with a black screen then HDD activity stops and nothing happens! :(
Should I be using PFS3-DS or is this a case of having 2x partitions with buffers of 300 each doesnt work with my current non-autoconfig 8mb ram (i have 1mb chip)?
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Arrrgh, got one of my 4GB CF cards working perfectly in WinUAE with PFS3 (not DS - dunno what the diff is either) using ClassicWB on a 500mb system part with a 3.3GB Data part and it wont boot in my real miggy! :confused:
I get the drive clicking in 15seconds (vs 2mins with FFS) and I see HDD activity for about 1 min with a black screen then HDD activity stops and nothing happens! :(
Should I be using PFS3-DS or is this a case of having 2x partitions with buffers of 300 each doesnt work with my current non-autoconfig 8mb ram (i have 1mb chip)?
Boot from your Workbench disk, load HDToolBox and check that the MaxTransfer setting for each partition is set to 0x1fe00, and then save the changes.
There's a "Large Hardrive Support" drawer in classicwb I believe, and also a youtube video somewhere that tells you how to enable it (you'll need this for your 2nd partition to work correctly as it's above 2GB). Or as an alternative, use PFSDS (direct scsi version from the pfs3ks13 package).
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Ok I've got it "mostly" working - looks like i had the buffers set too high considering I only have 1 mb chip chip-ram, dropped them to 50 for each drive and it's ok.
what does the "direct scsi" version do that the normal version doesnt? (im using gayle IDE)
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@djos Not wanting to hijack your thread but if you are still looking at a 500 plus board...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COMMODORE-AMIGA-A500-MAINBOARD-REVISION-8A-PERFECT-FAST-UK-SHIPPING-/290770253300?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item43b341f5f4
Bah, finally gave in and bought one, the desire to restore my 500+ to 100% got too strong! :biglaugh:
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Ok so I got PFS3 working and it is very fast compared to FFS but I keep running into an issue copying some files (doesnt matter which file system but does seem slightly worse with PFS3) from my PC to the CF card under winuae, it just get's to some files and appears to hang the VM (mouse works but thats it).
These files are typically ADF's with big long names - anyone else have this issue?
EDIT: Im wondering if it's choking on the "[" "]" characters in some file names?
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Well I just proved that theory wrong, replaced the square brackets with round brackets and it still choked on the same file.
..... However I tried shortening the file name lengths and that worked perfectly! :p
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I thought id fixed my IDE68k speed issues but I clearly havent, even with PFS3 installed both my 4GB CF cards are dead slow - Im getting 21,000bytes per second transfer from my Floppy drive and 5,500bytes per second transfer from my CF Cards. I've even installed IDEFix97 and it hasnt made any real difference and either does boosting the buffer sizes. :(
CF Card:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71121999/Amiga/2012-09-29%2018.05.31.jpg)
Floppy Disk:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71121999/Amiga/2012-09-29%2018.55.33.jpg)
Anyone got any idea's?
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Ideas? Yup... try 2 or 3 different manufacturers cards, CF cards seems to have limitations placed within themselves regarding speed, interface type etc
I have found some cheap ebay CF cards work better than big name brands
why this is so.. no idea :)
I have an 1200 with a 4gig CF card installed on an adapter and it works perfectly. Not sure if the gayle adapter works similar to the IDE built into 1200's
Swap out some smaller/brands of CF and see what happens?
Az
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I've got a Kingston from Amigakit and SanDisk (30MB/s rated), both are as slow as each other - dont have any others to play with unfortunately. :(
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about long filenames, there is a util for pfs3 (setfnsize) to increase the filename size. but you can't decrease it afterwards.
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about long filenames, there is a util for pfs3 (setfnsize) to increase the filename size. but you can't decrease it afterwards.
I think it's his old Workbench that's struggling with the long file names, not the filesystem (he's on PFS3 now). Best thing would be to rename all long files, and Workbench will truncate the names to what it can deal with.
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long files names aren't an issue for, just speed or lack thereof. :(
Btw, IDEFix + PFS3 seems to be a bad combo, I can no longer writ to my CF card as I get block ID errors. :crazy:
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Update: Today I completely rebuilt my miggy from scratch on my SanDisk 4GB 30mb/s CF card (instead of the Kingston 4GB) but even with a 200mb System Partition and 2 other partitions (1.9GB & 1.7GB), again using PFS3, the speed issue remains (it's not faster or slower).
Im waiting on a new rev8a Mobo, 1mb trapdoor card and 8mb auto-config ram board so it'l be interesting to see if anything changes then.
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You should try a CF card that is much smaller. Under 1gig if possible, see if you have a faster read/write speed even with the older tech inside the card.
Also, is you CF reader a twin system? Above and under the reader are positions for insert CF cards? Master/slave maybe causing issues?
My 1200 I has a single reader, 90degree adapter, works perfectly.
Az
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I've got 2 single readers and there is no difference between them in speed, both are set as master.
Hmm, ok I'll get an el cheapo 1GB unit and try that.
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problem solved, it was the IDE68k v402 - according to Mika some cpld's were programmed with code revision where secondary /int2 wasn't working and mine only had connections for the secondary's so never tried the primary's (soldered some wires to the primary's this morning).
now I get 580,000 bytes a second transfer. :cool:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71121999/Amiga/brd402.png)
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Awesome! Glad your CF reader and IDE interface are now working correctly. Now swap them out into the rev8 board and have MORE fun :)
Az
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Thanks me too. :)
Yep as soon as they arrive my 500 will be a genuine 500+ again with 2mb chip-ram. :D
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Well done! Another success story. You've kept at it I must say... :)
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Well done! Another success story. You've kept at it I must say... :)
Thanks Mate .... yeah im pretty darn stubborn and I like solving problems so that helps too! :D