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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: freqmax on August 27, 2012, 07:38:07 PM
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What do you think about using a Cell CPU that has 30x FPU performance to that of a Intel PC as the CPU for a computing platform?
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Cell is a dead end.
There might be another one developed by Toshiba or IBM (it was a consortium effort) but I doubt it now as I think they've moved on to other designs. At best you're likely to see process shrinkage of the existing design just like the PS3 has used to reduce cost but I dunno if anyone would be able to buy them.
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From where do you get this "30x FPU performance" figure? That sounds a little... unbelievable.
Anyway, Cell is not appropriate for a desktop machine, it's designed for a different task.
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I'm not an expert on the matter, but Cell strikes me as one of those things like Itanium where it's just too damn complicated to bother with. Software-directed caching sounds good in theory, and if you're willing to tweak it properly I'm sure it can run very well indeed, but for normal software development, you'd need a pretty freaking smart compiler to make the most of it.
Besides, FPU performance is only one small part of overall system performance.
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I don't want to get into another argument, but like parallel processing, would not implimenting a really useful compiler be so difficult as to be avoided. Great at one problem (Photoshop plug-in, playing chess, or acting as a server), but near impossible to apply across the board.
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Last I read the i7 had caught up to and passed the cell chip in terms of performance. Cell CPUs are a dead end.
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Does this topic really belong int the Amiga Hardware Section?
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Does this topic really belong int the Amiga Hardware Section?
Nup. : http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/gallery-indexEvents.html
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What do you think about using a Cell CPU that has 30x FPU performance to that of a Intel PC as the CPU for a computing platform?
Cell has around 200 GFLOPS of single-precision floating point power. If you code for them explicitly (you can't just recompile standard FP code). Impressive for its time, but irrelevant today when you can get GPUs 20x faster.
A modern Intel CPU's HD4000 graphics can achieve up to 294 GFLOPS, if you are happy coding in OpenCL. The general purpose AVX isn't a slouch either.
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I think the OP was trying to compare cell technology to long dead P4 PCs...
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Thought reading - FAIL
I were just thinking of which CPU that would be real neat as a power platform for a low price.
I suspect however CPU:s aren't the technology that will make things possible that ain't currently in the price segment.
The paper: Soft-DVB: A Fully-Software GNURadio-based, ETSI DVB-T Modulator (http://www.tvlivre.org/sites/tvlivre/files/PellegriniBacciLuise_WSR08_CR.pdf) writes about the performance advantage of the Cell CPU:
On the Cell BE platform, the accessible computing power will be approximately 3*10^10 floating point operations per second (flops), which is approximately 30 times the computing power of the machine used to test the current version of Soft-DVB.
As for the current processor: 3.0-GHz Intel Pentium IV processor, draining 83% of its computational power.
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Problem is FPU code is only 10% of the code in games and even less so in general applications...
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Well, if a cell CPU that performed that well actually existed, it might be the basis for a decent computing platform, but it doesn't exist and there's no one working on such a project anyway. Maybe in 2003 a cell processor would have had a chance as a desktop CPU, but today, GPU computing can outperform ANY cell design.
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Any desktop applications that would be possible given a different but cheap platform?
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Maybe in 2003 a cell processor would have had a chance as a desktop CPU
Cell was never meant (or suitable) as a general desktop CPU, not then, not now.
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The biggest problem with Cell is Sony. You can't really approach it for use in a product without entering into a business relationship with Sony and putting a gazillion dollars on the line. I think the complexity issue folks complained about is a cop out. People grapple with AltiVec, SSE, NEON, GPU stuff and all kinds of bizarre DSP platforms successfully and to good use.
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I agree that Sony is product flaw.
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Cell was never meant (or suitable) as a general desktop CPU, not then, not now.
Not strictly true.
"The Cell Broadband Engine—or Cell as it is more commonly known—is a microprocessor designed to bridge the gap between conventional desktop processors"
Lets not forget that most of the Amigas commodore ever sold were powered by processors designed to go in Washing Machines ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)
In fact Cell has a lot in common with PPC and in fact the CPU in the Xbox 360 albeit with only 3 cores actually has some common heritage with the Cell.
Cell can run a desktop operating system - there were versions of Yellow Dog Linux and Ubuntu running on PS3. Sadly along with memory limitations these were crippled by Sony's efforts to sandbox other operating systems from using the GPU. I always thought someone should have made some efforts to porting AROS or tried to get AmigaOS running instead. It would have run so much nicer on the PS3 as a desktop OS! alas that never happened, and the hacks to open up the system eventually led to Sony disabling the "OtherOS" feature from the console.
With its PowerPC heritage its already proved that Cell can work as a desktop processor if it is given the right resources.
Still - as many have already noted - Cell has a question mark hanging over its head in terms of future - although PPC looks like it still has some sort of roadmap for the future.
IMHO a new Amiga needs to look at whats happening with games consoles in terms of architecture. This kind of design is just like what the Amiga was all about. Custom chips helping out the Processor all in a dedicated , targeted platform enabled commodore to produce a computer that was both cheap and blew away the competition at the time. Thats the philosophy a new amiga needs to embrace.
In all honesty - if i had plenty of cash i might pony up for an X1000 but i dont really get what that Xena chip is all about or what kind of niche its all about?
So I pose another question..
Forget the CPU for a moment - What Custom chips should a new Amiga have that could make it stand out from other platforms on the market. Ill throw one into the mix .
Howabout a chip that can specialise in encoding / decoding / transcoding Video / audio at many times faster than real time?
Any other ideas?
N...
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Forget the CPU for a moment - What Custom chips should a new Amiga have that could make it stand out from other platforms on the market. Ill throw one into the mix.
I agree on this!
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Saying something outperforms a Pentium IV is not saying much at all. Pentium IIIs outperform P4s, clock-for-clock. There's a reason Intel dropped Netburst completely and went back to the P3 as the basis for designing the Core architecture.
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Cell was never meant (or suitable) as a general desktop CPU, not then, not now.
Actually, quite a few Linux fans would dispute your comment. I know quite a few of them that ran Linux on their cell powered PS3s.....including me. It ran quite well as a matter of fact but Sony wouldn't provide the details for hardware assisted graphics so after a while I decided to move on as better hardware (i.e. nVidia) and software came along, and now I just use my trusty PS3 as a dedicated Blu-ray player and media streamer.
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Saying something outperforms a Pentium IV is not saying much at all. Pentium IIIs outperform P4s, clock-for-clock. There's a reason Intel dropped Netburst completely and went back to the P3 as the basis for designing the Core architecture.
I do believe Cell is not as much performant, as parallel core computing CPU and there its more advanced then G5 chips.
So its great PPC chip, and it would be nice to see MorphOS and AMigaOS for it. Linux is already there.
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Cell was never designed to go into desktop machines, it's simply unsuitable.
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I read that the Motorola 56000 @ 33 MHz that the Atari Falcon used enabled it to play mp3 in realtime, doing spectrum analyse using the sound input with 4096 point FFT. The performance is like 1,8 ms for a 1024 point FFT.
Maybe that's a hint as to what kind of periphial circuits that could be useful?
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@polyp2000, ferrellsl
Never ever have I claimed that the Cell couldn't be used as a desktop CPU, only that it never (not even when it was new) has been suitable for this, thus a poor choice when better alternative exist(ed). The main feature of this piece of silicon were the numerous SPE's, with a PPC mostly there to tie it all together. Thus you will pay a very high price for a CPU of which main features will go largely unused in a normal desktop context, while you only utilize the PPC (PPE) part of it for your needs, which is an insane waste of resources. This is why it's not suitable, and this is why it was never used in desktop configurations. Better alternatives that actually made sense existed, so those were used instead. No brainer really, and it's somewhat strange that it's even being discussed. Maybe in the aftermath of the X1000 and similar, people has lost all track of concepts like "suitability", "viability", "waste of resources", etc? Why else are we regularly having these kind of pointless discussions about Cell and whatnot?
In the spirit of this: What I think is long overdue by now, is a discussion about Power 7! I mean, just imagine if "A-eon and the guys over at Varisys" would create a $10,000+ "AmigaOne X2000" desktop system for OS4 based on Power 7? Oh, wait... :rolleyes:
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What do you think about using a Cell CPU that has 30x FPU performance to that of a Intel PC as the CPU for a computing platform?
I would prefer x86+OpenCL since medium-range gfx cards probably have that power and much more :-)
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OpenCL, as in 0wn3d by Apple for use with closed hardware like Nvidia? ;)
The power of Amiga comes from powerful auxillary chips?
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The only non-PS3 consumer application of the Cell that I know of is in some Toshiba laptops like this one: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mobile/display/toshiba-qosmio-f50_5.html#sect0
Heck, used more than I thought: "Besides Toshiba’s Qosmio F50, G50 and G55 series notebooks, the SpursEngine can be found on standalone PCI Express cards offered by Leadtek and Thompson as well as in the new 42- and 46-inch TV-sets Toshiba Regza."
Not much more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpursEngine
But just to reiterate what everyone else said, it ain't easy to program fer and it don't like running an OS, really. It has one generic PPC core and then 7 vector units and you really really have to have stuff that is highly parallelizable to wring the best performance out of it. It took the PS3 crowd several years to do so for games.
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What do you think about using a Cell CPU that has 30x FPU performance to that of a Intel PC as the CPU for a computing platform?
The Cell is a poor general purpose microprocessor. This is why Apple passed it by. It has notable power when its SPU's are coded into motion for the media-intensive purposes for which it was designed.
bp
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I highly recommend this book for anyone interested in the Cell or the PowerPC in the Xbox 360 --- and what goes into design decisions that make those processors right for game machines (but not for general purpose computers).
http://wraltechwire.com/business/tech_wire/venture/story/4497770/
bp
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OpenCL, as in 0wn3d by Apple for use with closed hardware like Nvidia? ;)
OpenCL*is an open standard, initally developed by Apple but supported by AMD, Intel, nVidia and IBM. nVidia uses his propietary CUDA.
The power of Amiga comes from powerful auxillary chips?
Agnus, Denise and Paula were powerful auxiliary chips that assisted the cpu. OpenCL and GPUs are the 2010's version of that. Cell also supports OpenCL.
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@polyp2000, ferrellsl
In the spirit of this: What I think is long overdue by now, is a discussion about Power 7! I mean, just imagine if "A-eon and the guys over at Varisys" would create a $10,000+ "AmigaOne X2000" desktop system for OS4 based on Power 7? Oh, wait... :rolleyes:
Blah Blah Blah. Playstation 3 with suitable Linux is great and cheap LinuxBox - great OS. All but firts PPEs can be used in similar fashion as multicore x64 by OS as well as I believe they can be programmed independently, all but first that is locked to Sony OS. Its great hardware, and it can be used exactly as DSP in Falcon used to - PPE can simulate or process anything so it is a great and usable design with some software that would use it.
But PPE support might come in OS 5.0 :-)
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Blah Blah Blah. Playstation 3 with suitable Linux is great and cheap LinuxBox - great OS. All but firts PPEs can be used in similar fashion as multicore x64 by OS as well as I believe they can be programmed independently, all but first that is locked to Sony OS. Its great hardware, and it can be used exactly as DSP in Falcon used to - PPE can simulate or process anything so it is a great and usable design with some software that would use it.
But PPE support might come in OS 5.0 :-)
For nearly all scenarios of use, a cheap Intel or AMD box would destroy a PS3 under Linux. The Cell's single PPC core can't even do out-of-order execution. In the scenarios where they would not, the SPU's would be put to use with specific Cell code -- something you do not find as part of the Linux OS. Sure there are a few apps that do it, but they are rare.
bp
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For nearly all scenarios of use, a cheap Intel or AMD box would destroy a PS3 under Linux. The Cell's single PPC core can't even do out-of-order execution. In the scenarios where they would not, the SPU's would be put to use with specific Cell code -- something you do not find as part of the Linux OS. Sure there are a few apps that do it, but they are rare.
bp
Did Sony back track on not allowing alt OSs installed on the PS3?
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I think it's something that requires a modified ps3 system.
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How did this old thread get dug up again?
To heck with the Cell (or its PS4 replacement).
How do we get WiiU processors?
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I don't get the point of using an obscure, weird architecture processor if it's still utterly incompatible with existing Amiga software. If starting from square 1, why not something like ARM that's neat, clean and fast? Or just whatever processor that could emulate 68020 really fast.
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Blah Blah Blah. Playstation 3 with suitable Linux is great and cheap LinuxBox - great OS.
If I didn't mind the idea of being stuck with 256 M RAM, I'd go ahead and agree with you.
bUt I dO!!!!!! :D
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If I didn't mind the idea of being stuck with 256 M RAM, I'd go ahead and agree with you.
bUt I dO!!!!!! :D
And you can expand an Amiga to how much (mem)?
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For nearly all scenarios of use, a cheap Intel or AMD box would destroy a PS3 under Linux. The Cell's single PPC core can't even do out-of-order execution. In the scenarios where they would not, the SPU's would be put to use with specific Cell code -- something you do not find as part of the Linux OS. Sure there are a few apps that do it, but they are rare.
bp
Dont expect ARM CPU`s or even AMD CPUs to come near Intel performance, but that is easy once you have gross market share to invest in R&D.
To me, CPU that can run HTML5 broswer, 720 dpi video and other daily productivity apps and good OS is enough for 90% of people.
And Cell offers MORE PROGRAMMIBILITY then those high performant CPUs that can just share thread overload with bloated software (Win) that doesnt even use it properly.
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If I didn't mind the idea of being stuck with 256 M RAM, I'd go ahead and agree with you.
bUt I dO!!!!!! :D
The GPU is clocked at 550 MHz and makes use of 256 MB GDDR3 RAM clocked at 700 MHz with an effective transmission rate of 1.4 GHz
Its more VRAM and then RAM, but its designers choice.
With some virtual RAM just as backup, well optimized Linux can do a lot in 256MB fast RAM.
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And you can expand an Amiga to how much (mem)?
2GB DDR or DDR2 (less for older AmigaOne and SAM boards, 1GB or so)
Console designs are not ment to be much expanded.
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Its more VRAM and then RAM, but its designers choice.
With some virtual RAM just as backup, well optimized Linux can do a lot in 256MB fast RAM.
I'm not arguing the choice, I'm just saying that for general desktop use, nothing with 256m RAM will be a great Linux box. I was stuck using a 256M RAM laptop for a while, and just thinking about for example multi-tabbed browsing made my head hurt.
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Dont expect ARM CPU`s or even AMD CPUs to come near Intel performance, but that is easy once you have gross market share to invest in R&D.
A Phenom II X4 or X6 does come pretty close.
And on the low end, ARM and some of AMDs new embedded processor do a competant job when compared to the Intel Atom.
To me, CPU that can run HTML5 broswer, 720 dpi video and other daily productivity apps and good OS is enough for 90% of people.
That's interesting as my MorphOS system will do that.
And Cell offers MORE PROGRAMMIBILITY then those high performant CPUs that can just share thread overload with bloated software (Win) that doesnt even use it properly.
Actually, spes resemble GPU logic, so a comarison to OpenCL is valid.
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2GB DDR or DDR2 (less for older AmigaOne and SAM boards, 1GB or so)
Console designs are not ment to be much expanded.
Not fair Vox, I easn't refering to NG PPC system.
My own MorphOS system has 1.5 GB.
But I actually gree with you that 256MB is too little.
At one time, IBM was open to tthe idea of selling the Cell to third parties (which could have brought us a board with more memory).
However, these days it would be difficult to get them to qualify that application and approve sales.
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Not fair Vox, I easn't refering to NG PPC system.
My own MorphOS system has 1.5 GB.
But I actually gree with you that 256MB is too little.
At one time, IBM was open to tthe idea of selling the Cell to third parties (which could have brought us a board with more memory).
However, these days it would be difficult to get them to qualify that application and approve sales.
I stand a lot can be achieved with what is percieved today as old (0,2 or 0,5GB RAM)
More detailed specs reveal: 256K SRAM per SPE + 256MB sys RAM and 256MB VRAM. I do agree this is the serious flaw in SPS3 design, but again just see what is achieved with such low specs (e.g. Civ V just as example of more demanding app on PC)
CPU: Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU: RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound: Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-base processing)
Memory:
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
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I stand a lot can be achieved with what is percieved today as old (0,2 or 0,5GB RAM)
More detailed specs reveal: 256K SRAM per SPE + 256MB sys RAM and 256MB VRAM. I do agree this is the serious flaw in SPS3 design, but again just see what is achieved with such low specs (e.g. Civ V just as example of more demanding app on PC)
CPU: Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU: RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound: Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-base processing)
Memory:
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
I'd forgotten about the XDR memory.
I doubt Sony will use that in the future.
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Folks, granted this is a "hardware" issue, but does it really pertain to the Amiga?
As in, "Amiga Hardware Issues amd Discussion"
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Folks, granted this is a "hardware" issue, but does it really pertain to the Amiga?
As in, "Amiga Hardware Issues amd Discussion"
It is 32 bit compatibile PowerPC CPU, a possible target for current 32bit PPC AmigaOS
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Right! And was established earlier, no one is going to write a useful compiler. Plus the only changes in the past 20 years is better support for a 20 year old processor design (PPC), with Ultimate PPC still in development and using the same PPC design. Cell computing needs to reach the mainstream somewhere else before anyone would ever attempt it on the Amiga.
Ergo, this topic belongs in just, "Hardware Related Discussion."
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Right! And was established earlier, no one is going to write a useful compiler. Plus the only changes in the past 20 years is better support for a 20 year old processor design (PPC), with Ultimate PPC still in development and using the same PPC design. Cell computing needs to reach the mainstream somewhere else before anyone would ever attempt it on the Amiga.
Ergo, this topic belongs in just, "Hardware Related Discussion."
True, as long as the CPU isnt supported by AmigaOs.
Cell computing is mainstream with PS3, a lot of games were made for it.
Strangely for CPU that used to drive supercomputers.
Sadly, like with PA Semi, it seems we will never see advanced designs.
And I assume Cell is way better then PA Semi in many aspects (I am no hardware guru, simply as more modern design)
Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.bsc.es/computer-sciences/programming-models/linux-cell/cell-be-sdks/sdk-31/cell-be-components/gnu-toolchain
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The Playstation is a "Play Station," with no higher expectation to replace a desktop computer; many only consider the Amiga as the same thing -- so go for it!
Those supercomputers run one Program: weather forecasting, atomic bomb simulations, DNA analysis, car crash results, and chess. They also could not replace a desktop computer.
If you can not tell the difference except by vague analogy, then this subtopic in the forum could include tuning you '68 Camaro's to use unleaded gas; it is hardware and you can carry an Amiga in it
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From the statements made by Trevor and Varisys, I think its fair to say that the next processor supported by AOS4.1 will be a Freescale Qorlq model (possibly something with the e6500 core).
While slower, this out of order processor would have more MIPS then a Cell (and Freescale has re-introduced AltiVec instructions).
Now, as to the age of the PPC design, its not a long in the tooth as ARM or X86 (and look how well they are doing).
And it is compatible with the latest generation of AmigaOS.
So, yeah, its an Amiga hardware topic.
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Good luck running 89 octane in your Camaro!
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The Playstation is a "Play Station," with no higher expectation to replace a desktop computer; many only consider the Amiga as the same thing -- so go for it!
Those supercomputers run one Program: weather forecasting, atomic bomb simulations, DNA analysis, car crash results, and chess. They also could not replace a desktop computer.
If you can not tell the difference except by vague analogy, then this subtopic in the forum could include tuning you '68 Camaro's to use unleaded gas; it is hardware and you can carry an Amiga in it
Agreed on points made, but don‚t forget there is a lightweight multitasking OSs such as Linux, AOS 4 or MorphOS and AROS that can ran on that HW.
I would be eager to say its just other way around; running something not demanding on something realativly new and most powerful to that one.
PS3 was a dream in no HW days.
Now, yes, some newer design might be used.
Console is a locked console, but those few that could be hacked to be desktops have proven to be quite capable.
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To me, CPU that can run HTML5 broswer, 720 dpi video and other daily productivity apps and good OS is enough for 90% of people.
The point is being able to do something that makes people be amazed what the platform can do. Competing in the bread-and-butter swamp is better done by others. I think the Amiga as a concept in make the most performance for a low price which is set high enough to still make things possible. Thinking of it, it was the custom chips that made the Amiga .. OMG! the straightforward layout of the m68k just made it even better.
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How did this old thread get dug up again?
To heck with the Cell (or its PS4 replacement).
How do we get WiiU processors?
Rumored PS4 uses "AMD Liverpool APU" i.e. AMD Steamroller based CPUs + AMD Radeon HD 7850 (16 Compute Units) level GCN.
AMD Kaveri APU has quad-core AMD Steamroller based CPUs + AMD Radeon HD 7750 (8 Compute Units) level GCN.
Note that the APU is AMD's "CELL" solution.
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I stand a lot can be achieved with what is percieved today as old (0,2 or 0,5GB RAM)
More detailed specs reveal: 256K SRAM per SPE + 256MB sys RAM and 256MB VRAM. I do agree this is the serious flaw in SPS3 design, but again just see what is achieved with such low specs (e.g. Civ V just as example of more demanding app on PC)
CPU: Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU: RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound: Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-base processing)
Memory:
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
"1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance" includes fix function GPU functions in the NVIDIA RSX(Geforce 7(G70) based GPU) e.g. hardware texture filtering, hardware z-cull and 'etc'.
Most of "1.8 TFLOPs" can not be use for SGEMM type benchmarks and can't be compared to FLOPs used for programmable shaders/stream processors.
Note that 3D Labs WildCat VP760 has programmable 200 GFLOPs and it was destroyed by NVIDIA Geforce 6800. My point, designing GPU is not just gluing math processors processors together.
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True, as long as the CPU isnt supported by AmigaOs.
Cell computing is mainstream with PS3, a lot of games were made for it.
Strangely for CPU that used to drive supercomputers.
Sadly, like with PA Semi, it seems we will never see advanced designs.
And I assume Cell is way better then PA Semi in many aspects (I am no hardware guru, simply as more modern design)
Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.bsc.es/computer-sciences/programming-models/linux-cell/cell-be-sdks/sdk-31/cell-be-components/gnu-toolchain
Most HPCs(supercomputers) are powered by X86-64 CPUs.
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Rumored PS4 uses "AMD Liverpool APU" i.e. AMD Steamroller based CPUs + AMD Radeon HD 7850 (16 Compute Units) level GCN.
AMD Kaveri APU has quad-core AMD Steamroller based CPUs + AMD Radeon HD 7750 (8 Compute Units) level GCN.
Note that the APU is AMD's "CELL" solution.
Rumored...but not necessarily true.
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Now think about the contemporaries of the Amiga circa 1986 (more so because of the scalability of the A2000); we are talking about the Mac Plus, the Compaq Portable II, the Tandy Color Computer, the Apple II gs, and by the end of the year there are 386 based computers. How many of these computers today support USB, networking (Internet & Web access), advanced graphics cards, IDE/SCSI/CF usage and as we move into the A3000/4000 a Power PC, PCI cards, and the rest. How many are out there being used today for games, productivity, image manipulation, et cetera.
"From this day to the ending of the world, But we in it shall be remembered, We few, we happy few, we band of brothers." -- well not really.....
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Rumored...but not necessarily true.
IBM wouldn't beat AMD when the CPU is nearly thrown in for free e.g. buy AMD GPU and get the CPU for free i.e. that's AMD APU economics.
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IBM would beat AMD when the CPU nearly thrown in for free e.g. buy AMD GPU and get the CPU for free i.e. that's AMD APU economics.
Yes, and I rather expect IBMs fab to produce whatever goes in the PS4.
AMD is supplying the GPU for the XBOX720 as well.
But we're not going to have a complete picture of what else will be used for awhile.
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Yes, and I rather expect IBMs fab to produce whatever goes in the PS4.
AMD is supplying the GPU for the XBOX720 as well.
But we're not going to have a complete picture of what else will be used for awhile.
I have revised my post i.e. "IBM wouldn't beat AMD when the CPU is nearly thrown in for free "
Xbox 720 Yukon has both AMD APUs and IBM PPE X3 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2405922,00.asp
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I revised my post.
"IBM wouldn't beat AMD when the CPU is nearly thrown in for free "
How's that 89 Octane doin' for ya?
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How's that 89 Octane doin' for ya?
PowerPC emulator runs fine.
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Dont expect ARM CPU`s or even AMD CPUs to come near Intel performance, but that is easy once you have gross market share to invest in R&D.
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On multi-threaded wintel apps, 8 core AMD Bulldozer is around i5 to i7 Sandybridge.
For single thread apps, AMD doubled X86 decoder resources for AMD Steamroller CPU core.
To me, CPU that can run HTML5 broswer, 720 dpi video and other daily productivity apps and good OS is enough for 90% of people.
And Cell offers MORE PROGRAMMIBILITY then those high performant CPUs that can just share thread overload with bloated software (Win) that doesnt even use it properly.
To bad PS3's SPE's IEEE 754 support is gimped.
For GPU command generation, DX11 can use multi-core CPUs.
With 128GB SSD drive and Windows 8 Pro RTM, my Acer Iconia W500 tablet (AMD C-50 APU) operates smooth and quick e.g. MS Word 2010 loads about 1 second.
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PowerPC emulator runs fine.
So this thread is now about hardware that can run an Amiga emulator? Or should we include hardware (like an easel) that can hold up an Amiga poster?
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I have revised my post i.e. "IBM wouldn't beat AMD when the CPU is nearly thrown in for free "
Xbox 720 Yukon has both AMD APUs and IBM PPE X3 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2405922,00.asp
Interesting.
IBM scheduled to make a 3 core Power7 derived PPC for the Nintendo WiiU.
And according to the document you reference, IBM will be fabbibg the chipset for the Xbox 720 which will contain PPC and X86 cores.
So, why not a Cell based PS4 (or something similar to the Xbox720)?
After all, IBM will no doubt be fabbing Sony's chips as well.
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Interesting.
IBM scheduled to make a 3 core Power7 derived PPC for the Nintendo WiiU.
And according to the document you reference, IBM will be fabbibg the chipset for the Xbox 720 which will contain PPC and X86 cores.
So, why not a Cell based PS4 (or something similar to the Xbox720)?
After all, IBM will no doubt be fabbing Sony's chips as well.
AMD was talking about adding 3rd party IP on future AMD APUs e.g. PPE X3 IP for Xbox 720's case. http://www.anandtech.com/show/5494/amd-is-open-to-integrating-3rd-party-ip-in-future-socs
It's AMD Torrenza initiative on-a-chip.
For AMD Streamroller, AMD made improvements on fab portability. AMD also includes ARM based "off-load" security processors in thier future AMD APUs. ATI's business model has effectively taken over AMD.
Xbox 720 "Yukon" looks to have AMD Liverpool type APU(user land apps) + AMD Jaguar type APU(system) + IBM PPE X3 (legacy, user land apps). MS's WindowsRunTime(WinRT for C++) could abstract the CPU ISA differences e.g. ARM and X86 atm.
IBM CELL+AMD Liverpool APU combo for PS4 would mirror IBM Roadrunner supercomputer partnership e.g. AMD Opteron + IBM CELL combo.
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Hammer,
These details seem pretty covincing.
Looks like the next series of game consoles are going to be monsters.
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With a price tag to make them an uncompetitive with a used stationary computer? ;)
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With a price tag to make them an uncompetitive with a used stationary computer? ;)
No one can compete to mass fabrication in China.
But I am very much glad there is something made in Europe. It makes me think quality is back.
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PowerPC emulator runs fine.
Having Rosetta software open sourced now its no longer part of OS X would be nice thing to do :-)