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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Desktop Audio and Video => Topic started by: mbrantley on August 25, 2012, 07:41:22 PM
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One of my issues with the Flyer system project I have going on is touched on quite a bit in a marketplace thread at http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=704951#post704951 but I thought it would be better if I started a new thread on the subject in the right place.
I have an Amiga 2000 with a 68060 accelerator board, a boatload of fast ram, 2MB of chip ram, and Indivision flicker fixer, a Video Toaster and a Personal Animation Recorder card with attached hard drive just for the PAR. There is also a Deneb USB card, and the system boots from a USB thumb drive attached to the Deneb. The 2000 has 3.1 kickstart and runs AOS 3.9.
I have just got the latest/last Video Toaster/Flyer 4.3 software from NewTek, and I also have here a Flyer card. The Toaster is installed and working (still with older 4.1 software), but the Flyer card is not in the machine and never has been. I just bought it for $20. :-)
I want to install the Flyer card and use this machine for some "retro" nonlinear editing. I'll either track down a trio of SCSI hard drives and run cables to a second enclosure or track down SCSI-to-IDE converters and run the Flyer from a trio of Compast Flash cards. (The SCSI-to-IDE converters seem to be harder to find now and more costly than they were just a couple of years ago, unfortunately.)
My stumbling block is the ribbon cable that should connect the Flyer card with the Toaster card inside the computer. I don't have it, and I'm getting conflicticting information on it.
Plaz was kind enough to provide a very nice photo of the cable he made, and that's in the abovementioned thread. I believe I can make this if necessary, but I need to know for certain that the cable that connects a Flyer with a Toaster 4000 and the cable that connects a Flyer with a Toaster 2000 is the same -- or not. I've been told both ways.
Also, I need to know where exactly to plug in the cable on the Toaster 2000. I see two 16-pin headers that are not labeled on my Toaster 2000 card. On the Flyer, there is clearly a 20-pin header labeled Toaster I/O.
Anybody know -- for certain? Anybody got pictures of how this goes together? Diagrams? Any documentation? I have no manuals or instructions for this stuff, alas.
Best yet -- anybody have this cable as a spare and willing to part with it? I was told by one person that the Flyer originally shipped with both 4000 and 2000 cables (which would indicate they are not the same).
Or.... anybody got a Toaster/Flyer setup they'd be willing to sell? Or a Toaster/Flyer set of cards with all necessary cabling? Wouldn't mind having a spare.
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I have the EXACT same problem. Transition had supposedly sent the cable to me but it never showed up. The cable is the only piece preventing me from using the whole setup (that I have a good chunk of change invested in). Please if anyone can locate a couple of these it would be much appreciated. Maybe AmigaKit could make up a couple?
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For the Toaster 4000, the "cable" actually replaces the BNC I/O board (with the 4 inputs and preview and program connectors). With Toasters and Flyers so often being sold separately these days, the cable tends to (inadvertently) stay with the Toaster instead of the Flyer. It look me a long time to find one after I got my Flyer.
Can't remember the details on the Toaster 2000. It is described in the manual (some versions, at least; mine are unfortunately far away at the moment). I think Pyromania did a scan. DLH has it on his site (http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/amiga/hardware/).
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Matt, thanks for the link to DLH's site. Also found it on DiscreetFX's Open Video Toaster site. I downloaded the Toaster 4000 manual, which includes instructions for installing the Flyer with the Toaster 2000 as well. Page 28 tells and show how to connect the ribbon cable. Looks like the cable Plaz made (which is pictured in the above-linked Marketplace thread) is what I need to make or find.
gizmo, I hope we both get our Flyer setups working soon and can compare notes!
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@mbrantly
I just looked through my Toaster paperwork and found a pinout for a Toaster 2000/Flyer/YCPlus S-video board cable which looks like it just piggy backs the YCPlus connector onto the Toaster 2000/Flyer cable when I compare it to the photo Plaz posted. I've got to rush off to a meeting that I don't really want to go to right now but I'd be happy to scan it for you. Even better, I know I once made one of these cables and if I can find it and it's in usable shape, I'd be happy to send it to you for $5, shipping included.
Send me a PM. I'll be home this evening.
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Transition is DiscreetFX.... guess I'll have to back to trying to score from Ted... (whom quit this forum) sheesh... anyway if I could at least get a pinout of the cable maybe I could just make one.. thanks for the reply!
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Ami_GFX, PM just sent.
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Page 47 figure 9. Seems to show the same cable from my photo.
Plaz
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Plaz, you should go into business making these cables! You'd have a market of, ahem, well.... two. :-)
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Newtek was charging $25+shipping a pop when you could get them. But I'm afraid that after a worldwide sales blitz of maybe 5 cables, I'd quickly be out of business. If you continue to struggle getting one, I can make another. I made the two I have, but don't have any more parts handy. I could do something like remake an old floppy cable. It would work fine, but the connectors would look kinda ratty.
Plaz
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I've got a spare Toaster 2000 kicking around that I wouldn't mind pairing with another Flyer, so make that 6 cables :)
Actually, this might be the kind of thing that AmigaKit could do.
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I would be another customer, if such cables were being made.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
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Ok, here is a scan of the Toaster2000/Flyer/YCPlus pinout. It looks like you would just have to eliminate the YCPlus extension to have a Toaster2000/Flyer cable.
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Nice!!! Thx! :)
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Just a follow-up note to say I have just made my A2000/060 Video Toaster Flyer system functional. I have two of three 36GB SCSI hard drives connected at this time for video streams A and B. Before I can get the third drive online I will need to figure out how to house and power it. I found an old two-drive external SCSI enclosure in my closet but I have not found anything to hold the other drive yet. Man, the stuff I used to have and discarded! Anyway, I did make the Toaster-to-Flyer ribbon cable myself.
So, anybody got a TBC I can have? ;-)
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TBC isn't needed if you're pulling from a modern digital source (DVD player, DV video camera, etc). I think you'd still need one if you had more than one video source, but configuring that has never been clear to me - even with manuals.
When setting up my Flyer, I managed to find 3.5" external SCSI enclosures for dirt cheap. One drive in each, and all is well. Only downside is that the enclosures only take low-profile drives, and it seems like most SCSI drives tend to be taller.
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TBC isn't needed if you're pulling from a modern digital source (DVD player, DV video camera, etc). I think you'd still need one if you had more than one video source, but configuring that has never been clear to me - even with manuals.
Not exactly true since the advent of HD video. NTSC SD DV camaras work great without a TBC. HD video sources that have composite outputs usually use some sort of scaling down to SD and the composite out isn't always compatible with the Toaster without a TBC. I'm using a Kitchen Sync and the only equipment I can connect direclty to the Toaster without it is a DV camcorder and an SD satellite receiver. My DVD player and my HD satellite receivers all output video that is inompatible with the Toaster without a TBC.
The good thing is that TBCs are cheap right now. Nobody does SD video anymore. There were 2 TBC IVs that had the comb filter board that went for under $50 each recently on Ebay. I sold my spare Kitchen Sync with breakout and controller modules for around the same price.
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The other thing I could add to my previous post is that TBCs have a lot of video processing capability and do effects that add to and complement what the Toaster does.
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@mbrantley
You won't need a TBC as long as you use digital sources, MiniDV, DVD, etc. Can we pay you to make 10 Toaster-to-Flyer ribbon cables? Like Ami_GFX said, a TBC can be cool to use if wanted.
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Thanks for all the good info, folks. Pyromania, at present I only know how to make Flyer to Toaster 2000 cables. Are they the same or different for the Toaster 4000 card? I dunno. Anybody can make the one I did using Plaz's picture of the cable he made, the parts and a pair of pliers.
I'm still coming to grips with this Toaster Flyer setup, but I seem to be only able to sync up to a source connected to Toaster input 1. Do I need TBC to connect sources to other inputs? Same source works on 1 but not on 2-4.
And while I am messing with some digital source material now, I do have a lot of analog tape material in house. So I do want TBC in my setup. Just need to find one. They don't sell for a lot on eBay I just noticed, but I don't do eBay anymore. Anybody have one?
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Input one is the sync input. The Toaster will sync its video to whatever video source is connected to it. The video connected to the other inputs has to be in sync with what is connected to input 1. The TBC will do this synchronization. You need 2 TBCs to do 2 channels--or a dual channel Kitchen Sync. 4 channels of video require 4 synced TBCs. With the Flyer you'll just need one TBC because you'll be recording video to its drives and doing transitions and efects on the recorded video. The Flyer was a big deal in its time because before the Flyer came out, doing very basic A-B editing required a very cumbersome 2 VCR 2 TBC setup with a lot of other equipment usually. With the Flyer, just put the croutons in the right order and it's done right from the hard drives.
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Thanks, AmiGFX. Good info.
I'm getting sequencing errors at times when playing back my test projects. Playback stutters and halts and then an error requester advises my to check scsi cabling and termination and to possibly consider using "voidal" whatever that is.
I am using new Seagate 36GB bare SCSI drives connected to flat SCSI cables run out of the back of the machine. One end of each cable is connected to the Flyer card SCSI 0 or SCSI 1 header and the other directly to the drive. Do I need to terminate something somewhere, and how? I'm using a 68-pin to 50-pin adapter for each drive.
I do not yet have an audio drive attached to the SCSI 2 header because I haven't figured out where to house/power the third drive.
I don't know what this voidal business is and haven't done anything about cache settings, etc. I was assuming I wouldn't have to mess with that kind of thing with a newer SCSI drive.
UPDATE: Found an old NewTek forum post from 2003 mentioning that "modern" SCSI drives lack onboard terminators. Each of my ribbon cables has headers for two drives, so I will just use the last one on each cable as a place to plug in a terminator. I just ordered a trio of 50-pin passive SCSI terminators from Amazon. Hopefully that will take care of the problem.
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I always liked this TBC article.... if you havn't read this before you may enjoy it....
http://www.videomaker.com/article/641