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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: freqmax on August 24, 2012, 05:47:28 PM

Title: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: freqmax on August 24, 2012, 05:47:28 PM
Is there any other operating system besides AmigaOS that handles multitasking and graphics environment within 1 MByte?, preferably free.

Thinking that 512 kB ROM + essentials on floppy < 1 MByte. Memory protection could be worthwhile too.
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: glitch on August 24, 2012, 06:00:55 PM
You mean on the Amiga or for other architectures?  The QNX 1.44M Web challenge always blew me away, but that is for x86 hardware.
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: freqmax on August 24, 2012, 06:12:06 PM
Well if the code is portable enough the choice of CPU is less critical. But one example would be a MIPS processor with 1 MByte RAM and 512 kB ROM and maybe some FPGA as graphics chip.
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: desiv on August 24, 2012, 06:21:57 PM
That depends also on how you define multitasking.
You could run multifinder on the Mac from floppy.
That being said, I wouldn't call a Mac with a single floppy actually useful :-) , but it could do it...

desiv
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: Hattig on August 24, 2012, 06:38:34 PM
You could go the other way, just for a laugh. How about SymbOS for Z80 machines such as the MSX, Amstrad CPC and Amstrad PCW? That's a GUI multitasking environment running 128KB or less.

(http://www.symbos.de/gfx/shots/cpc/symbos-cpc-desktop2.gif)

(http://www.symbos.de/gfx/shots/msx/symbos-msx-os4.gif)

(http://www.symbos.de/gfx/shots/pcw/symbos-pcw-2.gif)
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: Linde on August 24, 2012, 07:08:44 PM
Contiki used to run on a stock C64 with GUI and (cooperative?) multitasking.
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: whabang on August 24, 2012, 07:25:52 PM
MenuetOS/KolibriOS runs off a floppy.

I've read about people running DOS and Windows 3.1 off a floppy too, but that was using Doublespace.
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: runequester on August 24, 2012, 08:42:19 PM
Wasn't there a "multi TOS" option for the Atari's?
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: freqmax on August 24, 2012, 10:11:15 PM
Recal something like multi-TOS too ..
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: Fransexy_ on August 24, 2012, 11:19:51 PM
Quote from: whabang;705018
MenuetOS/KolibriOS runs off a floppy.

I've read about people running DOS and Windows 3.1 off a floppy too, but that was using Doublespace.


What part of "multitasking" didn't you understand?
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: commodorejohn on August 24, 2012, 11:50:02 PM
Quote from: Fransexy_;705059
What part of "multitasking" didn't you understand?
Windows 3.1 is multitasking. Not preemptive multitasking, but multitasking.
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: freqmax on August 25, 2012, 12:12:33 AM
cooperative multitasking.. hickuptasking ;)
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: commodorejohn on August 25, 2012, 12:16:29 AM
Oh, no argument there - but strictly speaking it is multitasking.
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: beakster2 on August 25, 2012, 12:29:23 AM
QNX on the single HD floppy as mentioned above is what first came to mind for me.  It was a candidate for the next AmigaOS at one point I remember.

Never heard of SymbOS but looks impressive.  How about Geos (8bit and 16bit)?  Or early versions of GEM Desktop (they even had that running on the BBC Micro).  Also early versions of RiscOS probably qualify.
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: LoadWB on August 25, 2012, 12:49:37 AM
Quote from: beakster2;705073
How about Geos (8bit and 16bit)?


I'm not certain GEOS was really muti-tasking.  IRQ-driven, yes, but multi-tasking?  I'd like to see more in-depth information on that.
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: matthey on August 25, 2012, 12:50:26 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;705069
Windows 3.1 is multitasking. Not preemptive multitasking, but multitasking.

But is Windows 3.1 an operating system (original question asked for an OS)? Wasn't DOS the operating system with Windows a DOS interface sitting on top at that time?
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: desiv on August 25, 2012, 01:15:15 AM
Quote from: matthey;705076
But is Windows 3.1 an operating system (original question asked for an OS)? Wasn't DOS the operating system with Windows a DOS interface sitting on top at that time?

Yeah, but that starts to get into semantics that not everyone agrees on.
What's the OS?  What's the GUI?  etc...

Since Windows 3.1 on top of DOS allowed some task switching, I think it qualifies on that level..

But I don't believe Win3.1 was close to being under 1M, and I'd like to see a doublsespaced floppy actually hold enough of it to run, including DOS.


As kual as QNX is, being over 1M, that one doesn't fit the OP either.

SymbOS appears to have a 1M version for DL and that looks really kual.
Of course, it wasn't available back in the day, but it's pretty impressive.

Some guys on atariage are working on a new OS for the 8-bit Atari's that looks pretty incredible.  I can't remember if it has any multitasking in it tho.

Very neat and efficient stuff..

desiv
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: psxphill on August 25, 2012, 01:40:02 AM
Quote from: desiv;705077
But I don't believe Win3.1 was close to being under 1M, and I'd like to see a doublsespaced floppy actually hold enough of it to run, including DOS.

Old news.
 
http://web.archive.org/web/20030810114734/http://www.wimborne.org/richard/techstuff/windows31_on_a_floppy/
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: matthey on August 25, 2012, 02:10:16 AM
Quote from: desiv;705077
Yeah, but that starts to get into semantics that not everyone agrees on. What's the OS?  What's the GUI?  etc...

Since Windows 3.1 on top of DOS allowed some task switching, I think it qualifies on that level..

But I don't believe Win3.1 was close to being under 1M, and I'd like to see a doublsespaced floppy actually hold enough of it to run, including DOS.


I don't want to argue semantics ;). Besides, no one in their right mind would choose Windows 3.1 on a machine with less than 1 MB. Windows CE claims to run in 1 MB and would be bad enough. Knowing Windows, they would probably try to swap out to the floppy drive too :P.

The AmigaOS could be much smaller if optimized better. I think a 20% overall reduction in code size through optimization and compiling for the 68020+ (several AmigaOS 3.9 components are still 68000 compiled which has significantly worse code density) is possible. Just look at assembler optimized library replacements. Also, some 68k CPU enhancements as I have proposed on the Natami forum (68koolFusion) could reduce the code size another 5-15% I would guess. I think a powerful GUI like Reaction/ClassAct could easily be usable with 1MB ram. Screen sizes and colors would have to be kept to a minimum though. The 1 MB of disk storage would probably be the biggest problem. It's doable with some minor functionality limitations.
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: freqmax on August 25, 2012, 02:11:38 AM
Alternatives so far:
 * AmigaOS (m68k) ;)
 * QNX 1.44M Web (x86)
 * MacOS from floppy (m68k?)
 * SymbOS for Z80 machines (MSX, Amstrad CPC / PCW) < 128 kB
 * Contiki (6502)
 * MenuetOS (x86)
 * KolibriOS (x86)
 * Multi-TOS (m68k?)
 * DOS + Win3.11 .. maybe??
 * GEOS 8-bit and 16-bit?
 * Early versions of GEM Desktop
 * Early versions of RiscOS

If I require pre-emptive multitasking, memory protection, GUI Window environment, free license, source code perhaps only KolibriOS fits?

I'm just thinking that a mobile phone shouldn't need 1 GHz CPU + 1 GB RAM to run software.... when an Amiga more or less did manage on 7 MHz CPU with 512 kB RAM in 1985. Time for Aphone (A-phone) that runs Amosaic on the town? ;)
Also a laptop where one can compile and run C software with a battery that last a week would be something..

(just thinking freely)
Title: Re: Other multitask GUI within 1 MB system software?
Post by: desiv on August 25, 2012, 03:22:08 AM
Quote from: psxphill;705078
http://web.archive.org/web/20030810114734/http://www.wimborne.org/richard/techstuff/windows31_on_a_floppy/

OK, after reading that, I feel better.
It was doable, but so gutted as to not really be usable as an OS.
It's REAL mode, not protected, so no multitasking of any kind..

So I consider that in the "really neat hack" arena, but it's not the Windows 3.1 OS in a floppy..  not really..

And it's a 1.44M floppy, so not in the OP's under 1M requirement.

It is a REALLY neat hack tho.. ;-)

desiv