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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: rvo_nl on August 22, 2012, 07:53:54 PM
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For almost a year now I have barely touched my Amiga, because it suffers from a major graphics corruption issue, as can be seen below.
(http://www.vanooij.nl/FILES/crpt01.jpg)
(http://www.vanooij.nl/FILES/crpt02.jpg)
It doesnt look good.. :( The strange thing here is that my Workbench (OS3.9) screen itself shows up fine, as does early bootmenu / boot without startup-sequence. Its when I start diropus and perform some tasks that glitches start appearing. Usually just a pixel or two, then a line here and there, until it gets really bad and text on buttons and in menus becomes unreadable. When watching a serie of pictures, its even stranger: most pictures show up fine, but a few come out really bad, as can be seen in the second screenshot.
Now, I might sound like a complete moron, but believe me when I say its not a software issue. Years ago I did a very clean, well-documented installation of my machine, and havent touched anything since. And dont forget it ran fine for years before this issue came up. Also, I've tried many times commenting stuff out in my startup-sequence, all without effect.
I suspected the Bvision, too. So I replaced it, twice. I've tried 3 Bvisions now, and they all have this issue. Ofcourse I swapped the Bvision cable / PCB, too and tried reseating the card aswell as the ppc board many times.
It could be memory corruption, which Ive tried ruling out by running Memtest for a day, with 100% good result.
It could be the PPC or 68K CPU. (Surely hope not). Its very hard to test this, since I cannot display PAL and I need the PPC to use the Bvision.
It could be a power issue. I power the motherboard using a refurbished PSU that feeds power to the a1200 power connector, AND the floppy connector. I have new cables and new switches. But I read somewhere about a certain issue with sound output, when you only power the motherboard via the floppy connector? Well.. its hard to know for sure since my cabling is so messy/broken, but I think my sound output isnt working. Could this be an indication? I mean, are other components on the motherboard affected when power is only coming in over the floppy connector?
Last, it could be the motherboard. Ive replaced it 3 years ago, but perhaps I need to do it again.. ?
Any other ideas? Please help me out, I want my machine back! :(
Thanks for reading.
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What software versions are you using? Specifically RTG and so forth?
But I read somewhere about a certain issue with sound output, when you only power the motherboard via the floppy connector?
Never run your system from the floppy power supply only, especially if you have a BlizzardPPC + BVision.
My 1200T has the same hardware and is very stable. Power is supplied from a single 150W PSU via the original power connector (0, 5, 12 and -12V) with supplemental power for the 0, 5 and 12V rails via the floppy port. This ensures that you aren't pushing all the current drawn by the motherboard/accelerator/graphics card through one location.
You need to supply power for the -12V line for proper operation of audio and serial, unless you like your audio half wave rectified and your RS232 incapable of a full voltage swing for signal low ;)
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Insufficient power/voltage may well be a problem. Just like with probably most 'hard-core' users my C64 developed somewhat similar (horizontal) stripes after a few years. Later, I discovered that the PSU design was a problem and learned how to repair this fault.
Much later on, I repaired an unstable PET that wouldn't work reliably after a RAM expansion. Raising the PSU voltage a bit plus using thicker leads did the trick.
Check the exact voltages on the RAM chips and on the PSU output. If there's a larger discrepancy you need to enforce the power traces on the board for better distribution. If the level is too low (<<4,95V) you need to beef up the PSU or replace it.
PS: Listen to Karlos: that feeble floppy connector can't seriously power all that hardware...
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Thanks for your replies so far. Perhaps I wasnt clear, Im not intentionally powering my system only over the floppy connector. Im just saying that perhaps the normal power supply is malfunctioning or 'jumps' a little bit. Im not sure this is even possible..
Im running the latest CGX4 with the very latest patches. I believe version number is then 4.3 rc5. Im using a tweaked bvisionppc 'monitor', that goes up to 76khz -is that a problem? I remember tweaking that monitor a little while before the trouble started.
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Im running the latest CGX4 with the very latest patches. I believe version number is then 4.3 rc5. Im using a tweaked bvisionppc 'monitor', that goes up to 76khz -is that a problem? I remember tweaking that monitor a little while before the trouble started.
Anything is possible. Revert it and see what happens.
I'd start by stripping down the system to just the absolute minimum you need for RTG: your accelerator card, graphics card and work your way back up.
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Is your audio working do you know?
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Im using a tweaked bvisionppc 'monitor', that goes up to 76khz -is that a problem? I remember tweaking that monitor a little while before the trouble started.
Overclocking the video memory bus or the video chip can also cause problems like these. Can't you just try with a lower res?
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Overclocking the video memory bus or the video chip can also cause problems like these. Can't you just try with a lower res?
I am inclined to agree that it's a configuration (or power or both) issue simply because the chance that 3 successive bvision cards all suffer the same specific defect seems remote.
Make sure any overclocking tooltypes are disabled in the monitor driver (hint: 2AIDEMREPYMNONAFADELLATSNII, MELTDOWN)
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Hmm the more you people suggest, the more Im starting to think it IS a software issue after all.. Some nice things to try out, thanks again. Will report back soon :)
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Make sure any overclocking tooltypes are disabled in the monitor driver (hint: 2AIDEMREPYMNONAFADELLATSNII, MELTDOWN)
good one! they were enabled indeed, but disabling them didnt help at all.
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good one! they were enabled indeed, but disabling them didnt help at all.
Try a completely clean reinstall of cybergraphics, removing any monitor spec files that were created. I'm not entirely convinced your problem is with a 76kHz monitor preset (IIRC, I have a 96kHz one, but it's all in the pixel clock), but there are many parts to a typical CGX install and any one of them could be duff.
Once reinstalled, try a completely bog standard VGA 640x480 mode, and see if you get any corruption. Then work your way back up, but ensure that when defining your monitor spec your pixel clock does not go outside the acceptable range for your RAMDAC*. For 8/15/16 bit depths, this is something like 230MHz, down to 145MHz for 24 bit (packed pixels - not 32-bit with ignored alpha) and around 100MHz for 32-bit.
It has been a long time since I used it, but I recall the CGX the tool that configures your display modes won't allow you to define modes that will stray outside the pixel clock limits, but IIRC, you tell it what those limits are.
*cue Delshay and his fastest RAMDAC in the west. Whatever you do, don't listen to him, he's modified his hardware. Stay inside the limits.
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sigh.. I guess I will try. I really hope it helps, I've spent so much time installing my machine, the thought alone of reinstalling makes me feel down :)
Indeed, CGXMode is a pretty safe tool. The only thing you tell it before you can start tweaking the Monitor is the maximum khz your physical monitor supports.
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What is this floppy power connector? picture?
Anyway I suspect memory transmission error. It's very perculiar that only every n:th bit gets corrupted. Perhaps some PCB trace is dirty such that a capacitance has developed?
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I had similar issues (without bvision, standard chipset) and it was traced to an overheating chipset made worse by running high resolutions. My solution was to add a fan to exhaust hot air from the case. No problems since.
I have an example video on youtube of the corruption I experienced:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am73Zsn6ntA
Steve
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Just think, for the amount of money you paid for that setup, you could have gotten yourself an AmigaOne with OS 4.1 and had hundreds of dollars left over. You people with your Amiga 1200 computers really crack me up, lol.
My advice: Part that piece of crap out and sell the items on eBay. Then take about $1000 of the money you will get and buy yourself an AmigaOne with OS 4.1, and an ATI Radeon graphics board. You will have a much nicer Amiga computer, for less money.
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@freqmax, I will get back to you later on. You raised a valid point that I need to check out, together with Karlos' suggestions.
@TCMSLP that looks like a different problem, your artifacts are animated, whilst 'my' artifacts remain static. I also dont think there can be a heating issue, I get artifacts 30 seconds after doing a cold boot. And we had a proper winter here in Holland :)
@nscaleworld Thanks, but I dont want an AmigaOne and I love my Classic Machine. It will never be sold and I will never buy a different system. This is Amiga the way I want it.
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Just think, for the amount of money you paid for that setup, you could have gotten yourself an AmigaOne with OS 4.1 and had hundreds of dollars left over. You people with your Amiga 1200 computers really crack me up, lol.
Have you ever actually been an Amiga enthusiast, or are you just another Johnny-come-lately fanboy?
My advice: Part that piece of crap out and sell the items on eBay. Then take about $1000 of the money you will get and buy yourself an AmigaOne with OS 4.1, and an ATI Radeon graphics board. You will have a much nicer Amiga computer, for less money.
Speaking as someone that owns both, that "piece of crap" as you so politely put it is running 20 years after production. I really doubt many of Eyetech's systems will be.
@rvo nl
If a clean reinstall of CGX doesn't work, you might consider a physical strip and rebuild, cleaning all the connectors thoroughly of any grime and dust.
Also, perhaps some other peripheral is interfering with your system. Rebuilding it a component at a time should help eliminate that.
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Just think, for the amount of money you paid for that setup, you could have gotten yourself an AmigaOne with OS 4.1 and had hundreds of dollars left over. You people with your Amiga 1200 computers really crack me up, lol.
My advice: Part that piece of crap out and sell the items on eBay. Then take about $1000 of the money you will get and buy yourself an AmigaOne with OS 4.1, and an ATI Radeon graphics board. You will have a much nicer Amiga computer, for less money.
And you can get a faster linux PC for a quarter of that. Who cares? We're here to talk about classic amiga's.
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AmigaOne is a PowerPC/Hyperion-OS thing. Not 68xxx with AmigaOS.
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Just think, for the amount of money you paid for that setup, you could have gotten yourself an AmigaOne with OS 4.1 and had hundreds of dollars left over. You people with your Amiga 1200 computers really crack me up, lol.
My advice: Part that piece of crap out and sell the items on eBay. Then take about $1000 of the money you will get and buy yourself an AmigaOne with OS 4.1, and an ATI Radeon graphics board. You will have a much nicer Amiga computer, for less money.
Why do you even post here? Crawl back in the hole you came from and please stay there.
Let us that love classic Amiga love them, not your problem and not your money we spend.
I own PPC hardware for MorphOS but I still love Classic hardware, no PPC hardware can replace 68K and custom chips for me.
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If a clean reinstall of CGX doesn't work, you might consider a physical strip and rebuild, cleaning all the connectors thoroughly of any grime and dust.
Don't think there's any connector involved here, the distortion wouldn't be so static. It's a problem on the gfx card, but since it's with several ones you can rule out a hardware defect. It's either power related, overclocked RAM/chip/RAMDAC or a 'simple' software problem.
I'd leave the installation as is and do a parallel, clean install (separate disk, partition or just system folders). Starting with a basic setup and working your way up from there will definitely tell you where the trouble starts.
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He's tried three different graphics cards with the same result. I wonder if it's the PPC card at fault?
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From what you describe, It is not a hardware issue but a "patched" or mixed software problem. Try AGA mode, that will rule out the basics, then another graphic driver, like P96 (v2.1c), or go back to the original install version that was packaged with the card. if you meet criteria, try OS 4.1; the software Is a complete new take on the hardware
Yes many of us love our Classic Amiga's and some folks comments are inflammatory for that reason only
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Have you ever actually been an Amiga enthusiast, or are you just another Johnny-come-lately fanboy?
Speaking as someone that owns both, that "piece of crap" as you so politely put it is running 20 years after production. I really doubt many of Eyetech's systems will be.
@rvo nl
If a clean reinstall of CGX doesn't work, you might consider a physical strip and rebuild, cleaning all the connectors thoroughly of any grime and dust.
Also, perhaps some other peripheral is interfering with your system. Rebuilding it a component at a time should help eliminate that.
Yes they have 20 years in the running now, and i even think they last 10 years more :) they knew how to build good machines back then, my oldest Amiga is 24 years old now :)
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I would not let Mr Tiny Trains (or is he Mr Tiny Brains) get you off topic
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small update here. I tried running some AGA demo's on my tv set, worked fine, no artifacts at all. But there was no sound. More & more I suspected that this had something to do with it, so I removed all components from my machine, to see if sound would return. Not so. Then I reconnected all power cables, especially at the part where the PSU cables go into the a1200 mainboard. Suddenly I had sound output again! Probably a problem with the -12v line? Anyway, I couldnt wait to get everything back into the tower, do another positive sound test, and fire up Diropus. Well, even with sound working I still have the artifacts there :( I am quite afraid it has something to do with my ppc board. Next step will be a clean install of OS3.9 and CGX4, to see what happens then.
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Suddenly I had sound output again! Probably a problem with the -12v line?
Without a working -12V rail, sound and serial will both have problems for starters. You may get no sound at all, or horribly clipped sound (caused by rectification of the negative half of the waveform). Serial may exhibit all sorts of weird problems or just flat out refuse to work, depending on what is attached. The electrical specification for RS232 considers logic low to be anything from above +3V (up to around +25V) relative to ground and logic low to be anything below -3V (down to around -25V) respectively. IIRC, the amiga serial port uses +12V and -12V respectively for these.
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Don't think there's any connector involved here, the distortion wouldn't be so static
We don't know from a screenshot how the distortion develops over time to know if it is static or not. It never hurts to clean out dust and crap anyway, in my experience.
@rvo_nl
You might have some dust or dirt in the MiniPCI connector where the BVision attaches. Make sure you clean it out during reassembly.
If it was a more general memory corruption issue on the PPC board, I'd expect your machine to lock up pretty quickly as it would surely overwrite something important soon enough.
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Write an appliction that tickle bit-by-bit and see how it works. Might be that the memory works alright, but the graphics chips reads wrong.
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I cant write applications.. :) otherwise I would.
@Karlos I did thoroughly clean connectors of bvision and power circuits. Sound is now at least always working, but the artifacts remain. Ive noticed they consist of 20 or-so lines spaced evenly across the screen. Everything they slice through becomes distorted. Most notably in menu's and interface buttons.
BTW, I never used serial so had no idea this was affected, too. My a1200 connects over PCMCIA.
Everything is now back in the tower and I've done a complete backup of the system, in case reinstalling doesnt help. I honestly dont know where to continue afterwards.. but we'll see.
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Haven't you try to assemble your Amiga 1200 piece by piece?
Maybe there is a problem with one piece of hardware.
Did you also try without the IDE Express controller? Sometimes this piece of hardware can make your Amiga unstable. I saw this problem when I visit a friend of mine.
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Thinking that nscaleworld had a real bad attitude that reminded me of "military spec A2000's", I checked out that name on the web. Take a look at http://nscaleworld.com/
Well, a quick WHOIS confirms it is indeed Doomy (Hans Campbell). What is the 2012 Amiga.Org position with him ?
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Well, a quick WHOIS confirms it is indeed Doomy (Hans Campbell). What is the 2012 Amiga.Org position with him ?
Until I am told otherwise by the admin, doomy is banned indefinitely. Some further checks will be necessary however.
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Checked and unsurprisingly, a big overlap with previously banned Doomy sockpuppets.
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Well, if it is him, I would like to say that I am an Electrical Engineer that works with real trains, not childrens 'n' model ones. Am I now guilty of trolling Doomy ? :roflmao:
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please allow me to stay on topic with another update. I didnt get round to reinstalling 3.9 and for some reason I couldnt get the 4.0 installer to work, so that will come later I did however find out something that is quite interesting:
I only have artifacts in 16 bit modes. 8 bit and 24 bit screens have no troubles. I did use CGXmode to change the configuration for the main 16 bit mode I use to something on the very safe side, but that didnt make any difference.
What do you people think is wrong here? PPC? Bvision? Software? I still fear for the PPC..
(http://www.vanooij.nl/FILES/crpt03.jpg)
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Do those corrupt vertical lines stay at the same position on the screen when you move the Edit Mode window, or do they stay at the same position *in* the Edit Mode window if you move it?
If they are fixed relative to the screen itself, this suggests a possible DAC problem or issues with the pixel clock for that screenmode.
If they get blitted around with the rest of the window, then something is definitely corrupting the Video RAM.
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they are fixed relative to the screen. they are always in the same position. even when I change the pixel clock for the mode myself. youre talking about the DAC, that is part of the bvision, right? how can it be that they all have the same issue? doesnt make sense.. interference? ..the kind that only appears in 16 bit modes? :) Im lost..
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they are fixed relative to the screen. they are always in the same position. even when I change the pixel clock for the mode myself. youre talking about the DAC, that is part of the bvision, right? how can it be that they all have the same issue? doesnt make sense.. interference? ..the kind that only appears in 16 bit modes? :) Im lost..
Yeah, it does seem strange, to be honest.
Can you tell us exactly which versions of all the CGX components you have?
Perhaps I can compare them with my CGX 4.2 install which I know is working just fine.
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Fixed artifacts in certain modes = graphics board problems, an electrical problem if you will. Then of course one has to rule out confounding hardware issues such as a monitor "near out of sync" or similar. Think, "it doesn't move," so not software.
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Well, if it is him, I would like to say that I am an Electrical Engineer that works with real trains, not childrens 'n' model ones. Am I now guilty of trolling Doomy ? :roflmao:
Clarity: n scale = tiny trains = tiny brains
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Fixed artifacts in certain modes = graphics board problems, an electrical problem if you will. Then of course one has to rule out confounding hardware issues such as a monitor "near out of sync" or similar. Think, "it doesn't move," so not software.
Since all the memory and pixel clocks on the Permedia2 are programmable, such issues can still be down to software and the improper configuration thereof.
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Uh, the fact the the hardware is programmable does not make it a software problem any more so than a resistor can be "programmed" by varying the voltage applied. "Firmware" is software imbedded in hardware but it, like "software" runs on hardware. The software/firmware will not alter the properties of the transistors themselves.
Ya can't fix a bad resistor by changing the software.
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Uh, the fact the the hardware is programmable does not make it a software problem any more so than a resistor can be "programmed" by varying the voltage applied. "Firmware" is software imbedded in hardware but it, like "software" runs on hardware. The software/firmware will not alter the properties of the transistors themselves.
I think you misunderstood me. *If* the corruption is caused by an "almost out of sync" type problem, it could be symptomatic of a misconfigured clock. Trust me, I've poked around in those registers myself and gotten into trouble for it.
Three separate cards with the same, specific hardware defect seems a bit of a stretch.
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One person's glitch is another man's feature.
(Ask any IBM salesman)
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I am inclined to agree that it's a configuration (or power or both) issue simply because the chance that 3 successive bvision cards all suffer the same specific defect seems remote.
Make sure any overclocking tooltypes are disabled in the monitor driver (hint: 2AIDEMREPYMNONAFADELLATSNII, MELTDOWN)
If done correctly overclocking has nothing to do with this problem. I have finished the Ultra Bvision which is clocked 125Mhz and sets a new world record.
A Master Bvision is now also complete,but I am awaiting driver update for this card,but even without the driver update has set another world record with its Ultra Low Latency SGRAM (speed will never be revealed).
Both Bvision work on 37.5Mhz+ bus regardless if the PCI bus has jump ship.
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If done correctly overclocking has nothing to do with this problem. I have finished the Ultra Bvision which is clocked 125Mhz and sets a new world record.
Umkay, this helps the OP solve his display problem how, exactly?
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"Umkay, this helps the OP solve his display problem how, exactly?"
Only use those modes that work without issues?
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It helps by showing that up to 125 MHz should work?
Pushing the D/A (or RAM) above certain bitrates can make them go gibberish.
Anyway if you lack programming skills paint some pictures with vertical lines of different base colors + white (R-G-B-White). Make a slide show of it if you can. Also open one picture in a window you can move horizontal and vertical to see what happends.
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A Moire' effect is neither a programming failure nor the sign of the ill informed. DAC issues and clock rates can make a difference. Three boards with the same "issue" in only certain modes COULD be either a hardware (my vote) or software issue. If it is necessary to find out which, use P96 or pop it into an OS 4.1 system. Ergo different software. If the "issue" persists, it is hardware. Don't shoot the messenger; this is a forum -- you know where Caesar got stabbed to death? Be open to other ideas.
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It helps by showing that up to 125 MHz should work?
Pushing the D/A (or RAM) above certain bitrates can make them go gibberish.
All true,but I don't think it will work on any other Bvision as my permedia 2 chip is different and has 250Mhz Ramdac as standard with 143Mhz SGRAM chipsets and does not go gibberish.
There is also timing parameters to take advantage of faster SGRAM,but none of this is available/or will not work on any other Bvision card in its current state.
Anyway all this does not matter as Master Bvision is working,and now sets the pace and i think it may get quicker.
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Thank you for the input, it can now be established that you did not cause the problem and with your technical background don't care to help
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yes ran mine from pc psu as well as the floppy connector but both toghter
you should not have to get 3 bvsion cards i never had bit trouble with mine
theres some pcb i seen on amigakit so not sure what this does was pictured with bvsion card
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=339
oh this is if you use certain ata fast ide card i just used standred buffered card
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thanks, Ive got 2 of those but they are not going to solve my trouble. I first need to rule out a software issue and for that I want to install OS4. No clue why this is not working though. Will report back when I made some progress there.
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well, I managed to install CGX4 (4.3 rc5) over a clean WB3.1 installation. Even with the default 56khz monitor, any resolution I tested had the same artifacts. Even in 8 bit. I guess I didnt spot the lines before, because of the few colours it uses. So every other screen except the workbench screen shows up garbled. Problem in certain memory range then? Must be Fastmem then, since all Bvisions have this problem?
Edit: seriously, please help me out. After spending some time with my machine I've noticed how much effort I put into it over the last few years. I really must get it working again and Im really eager to try out OS4.1 Classic. Any ideas are welcome. Anything on-topic, please.. :)
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I would also initially guess a software or power/contact issue, but it sounds like you've triple-checked all the basics. How about reducing the RAM on the BPPC to one stick, or trying a single different one? You might also end up trying another motherboard, or thoroughly checking yours for failing capacitors.
I had a similar problem once with a Picasso IV on an A2000, that had previously worked fine. Random garbage, that eventually progressed to lock-ups. After trying a million different things (and suspecting a dud PIV), it turned out to be something defective on the motherboard.
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Yeah try with another motherboard. And please upload some pictures of your hardware.
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Incidentally, have you made sure it's not the monitor? Those digital displays can develop pretty strange defects at times...
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I had a similar problem once with a Picasso IV on an A2000, that had previously worked fine. Random garbage, that eventually progressed to lock-ups. After trying a million different things (and suspecting a dud PIV), it turned out to be something defective on the motherboard.
@damion interesting. did you have such 'garbage' also under RTG graphics modes? Because that is the strange part, everything on my a1200 board doesnt SEEM related to my bvision output, but maybe Im wrong. Anyway tonight I will try swapping both simm's for one out of my blizz1230. If that doesnt help, its either ppc, or mainboard.
@freqmax Im hoping to find someone nearby with a machine I can test my hardware on
@Zac67 yes, I have 2 identical monitors and swapped them around more than once, to rule out things.
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Check SGRAM on Bvision not coming into contact with something on motherboard.
Check Bvision(s) on another Blizzard card.
Check Blizzard card PCI connection for contact stray wire/poor solder contact.
Check thermal paste (if any) not in contact with soldering contacts.
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Ive seen something similar to that on my old A4K wit CYB64/3D it turned out to be a short circuit problem with two of the pins on the virge chip. After I fixed it no more graphics problem.
So maybe look for a short circuit on your board.
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Another possibility is when some part of the SGRAM goes short circuit,when the fault is cleared it leaves permanent damage on the permedia 2, SGRAM may still be fine.
Permedia 2 needs at lease 2Mb SGRAM (2 chips) and must be allocated at bank 0 first to show any kind of display which is the side facing towards motherboard when installed, there you will also find bank 1.
This is why when modifying a A1200 with Blizzard/Bvision combo short circuit must not appear at bank 0 & 1 ( nearest to motherboard ) when installing a Bvision which can give the result in this thread.
If using FastATA mk3/4 care must be taken that SGRAM bank 2 & 3 ( card facing upwards normal installation ) on Bvision does not come into contact with FastATA card which can also give the same result.
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thanks both, for your help. there is only one way to test this, with another ppc and/or a1200 mainboard. I will try to find someone in my neighbourhood to help me out.
This night I tried some old 32MB Simm and also swapped Bvision, video cable and connector PCB around, all without result.
I had a very close look at the ppc board, it really looks fine, also under the heatsink I dont see any damage.
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I really hope that you find the problem.
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Hmm... interesting. I have exactly the same problem with my Voodoo- card. The vertical lines are spot on....
Began a while ago when I started to fiddle with the hardware. After adding Indivision MK-II, ZoRam and a FastATA board. Also made some attempt to replace the Voodoo card with a Radeon, but that never worked out so I replaced the voodoo card again. It all happened with some holiday in between so I cant exactly remember when they started to appear.
What Ive seen is that they dont always appear, and when they do, it seems to affect bright colours less. Hi-, or low res don't seem to matter, they turn up on both maxed out WB- screens as well as low res Quake screens. Very strange.
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Still sounds like a hardware problem
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@560SL, Perhaps ESD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_discharge) damage?
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when you only power the motherboard via the floppy connector? Well.. its hard to know for sure since my cabling is so messy/broken, but I think my sound output isnt working. Could this be an indication?
____________________
Levitra (https://www.rx247.net/levitra.html)
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I need permedia 2 driver edited again,I need to test some new timing parameters for sgram.
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Take out your Indivision AGA card. They are notorious for causing artifacts when they heat up.
Or it could be it has come lose from Denise.
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tried that, didnt help.
HOWEVER..
take a look at this wonderful, glitch-free screen:
(http://vanooij.nl/FILES/crpt04.jpg)
this is with another a1200 mainboard. When I put my own board in, and go to CGXmode, I get instant artifacts. So, case closed. I need a new motherboard!
no wait, I should have tested a bit more. Now I have the exact same problem again, with a different motherboard. It happens less, but for example when I move the window in the picture above, the lines come back again. So, must be the PPC then. I guess that means its the end, coz Im sure as hell not replacing that one.
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so, every screen after the first 1024x768/15bit screen has artifacts. its not related to the bvision. its not related to the memory on the ppc. its not related to the motherboard. its not related to software. its not related to any other on-board component. how can it be anything else than the ppc board itself? and if thats the case, which specific component is probably at fault here? Stachu? Delshay? ..is this something that is cured with a new 300mhz 603?
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If you are using the same Blizzard card you could try a flash update.
Also if you want to sell your faulty card(s) contact me via PM.
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thanks.. I guess ;)
Ofcourse I have the latest flash.
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thanks.. I guess ;)
Ofcourse I have the latest flash.
If your card really is damaged, it's possible it can be repaired. There used to be an amiga repair centre (based in France, I think), though I don't know if it is still going.
Failing that, you have a few "BlizzardWizards" here, such as Statchu or Delshay, though whether or not they would want to repair it or just buy it from you in order to refurbish it and sell it on, I couldn't say.
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I also have the latest flash,but every now and then I have to reflash it again due to changes.
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The motherboard seems to be playing some role here, any chance of getting one of them re-capped?
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so, every screen after the first 1024x768/15bit screen has artifacts. its not related to the bvision. its not related to the memory on the ppc. its not related to the motherboard. its not related to software. its not related to any other on-board component. how can it be anything else than the ppc board itself? and if thats the case, which specific component is probably at fault here? Stachu? Delshay? ..is this something that is cured with a new 300mhz 603?
Ah, Franken-Amigas! I chased a 'Ramlib error' problem around like this for months, only to eventually realise that the physical structure of the Power-tower was slightly kinked, which 'bowed' the motherboard slightly when it was tightly screwed in causing the error. Somehow.
Silly questions:
1) You've listed every component except the psu, hard-drive/cable, CD/cable and floppy/cable. Have you tried others?
2) Have you tried it in a different plug socket in the house (silly, I know) just in case something is a bit iffy in the wiring department, or causing severe groundplane intereference.
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Yes, I did actually try different HD cables :)
I indeed did not try with a different PSU or Elbox tower, so who knows.. but do you really think that is going to cause artifacts on every second RTG screen opened? :/
I did try in my current home and my previous one, with the same results. Again I cannot believe such a thing will cause such a specific glitch in my display.
I guess I can do one more test, in a different tower with a different PSU..
One thing that keeps bothering me, could it be that - something - in my tower is damaging all my bvisions? For example that little wired PCB you plug in that Bvision 'hole', which comes with the Elbox tower and is used for the LED's? Did it short circuit the video memory of all my bvisions? :| There is 12v on it, after all..
I ask this because, I remember having had similar graphical artifacts way back that I solved by getting a new bvision. At that time I got 3 (one broken) of which 2 I am constantly using for testing. (with and without that little circuit board I mentioned)
Can someone tell me where the video memory is located on the Bvision? Is it near the hole in the middle?
edit: OMG, reading back this actually seems plausible..
This is the LED PCB Im talking about: http://eu-shop.elbox.com/cgibin/shop?info=562ELED&sid=7c715f4b
This is the Bvision: http://www.amiga-hardware.com/download_photos/bvision_front_big.jpg
Note that this is the side where the PCB touches the Bvision. Also note that OFCOURSE I did protect the bvision against shorting by wrapping the PCB in ducttape, but you know, over time I guess the pins of the PCB will go right through it..
btw delshay, I see now that you already pointed out a possible short circuit resulting in graphics output looking like this.
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You don't have to wrap anything in duct tape, normal installation is fine even with A1200 shieiding ( desktop A1200 only )
Bvision carries 12v but is not used, however 5v is present with-in the cable,but i would expect your problem to be a lot worse if 5v is sent back into the Permedia 2.
It is recommended that all users add the minimum heatsink to permedia 2 even if its not overclocked.
If using indivision care must be taken of cable routing as not to put to much stress on Bvision connector. Same applies when installing Bvision,do not over tighten screws.
As you don't know where the memory is STOP. Get a expert to look at your system.
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Well, its hard to find experts these days.. :)
Also I think you misunderstood. Its the floppy power connector in which I have to put this little Elbox circuit boards that powers my LED's, it also provides extra power to the motherboard. This circuit boards is a bit bigger than the hole inside the bvision, so the sides of it press against the bvision circuit board itself. Since there is power being fed over this PCB, perhaps this has damaged the Bvision components near the hole?
Here, see this drawing I made:
(http://www.vanooij.nl/FILES/crpt05.jpg)
Also I must say the version of this Elbox LED thingie that I have looks a bit different.
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(http://www.vanooij.nl/FILES/crpt05.jpg)
The SGRAM chips are the ones just visible at the bottom of your screenshot. There should be 8 of them in total, 4 on each side of the card.
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thanks for clearing that up. although I cant be sure one of the other components is affecting the SGRAM. What about the chips on the backside of the bvision, can they be damaged by touching the motherboard? Not too uncommon in A1200T's I guess..
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Hello, it's been a while. But for those that are interested, after much fiddling around I bought a new bvision and the problems are gone. I've added a 80mm fan to my machine that blows cold air on the permedia chip all the time, since many suspected heating issues. And to be honest, Ive ruled everything else out. Im probably a very unlucky person having burned 3 or 4 bvisions in a short time.
Thanks for all your help!
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UG! What a way to get it figured out! Since you now know it was the Bvision, what are you going to do with the "zapped" ones? Delshay might be able to fix them for you, maybe even upgrade them. :)
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I hope you are right about the fault,but I find it very strange that you have tryed 3 different Bvision and all show the same fault.
If the fault reappears then you know its not the Bvision.
Check other Bvision(s) on another Blizzard card.
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I did in fact, there too the artifacts showed up. Perhaps I didnt make myself clear. My first ever bvision started showing the artifacts. I then bought 2 new ones, that initially worked. only over time, say 6 months, they too started misbehaving. another bvision never worked from the start. Yes, I now have 5.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/15xofar.jpg)
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So, let this be a warning to everyone; DON'T BUY A BVISION, IT'S CRAP!!! :rtfm:
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The Bvision to the left will not work, its missing some components. Nice to see correct size heatsink on one of the Bvision.
Bvision can perform, it needs the right modification(s) to perform with or without overclocking.
Users with Micron Sgram may have better overclocking with users with Fujitsu Sgram,this type of Sgram is fitted as standard on Bvision. Some users may have another type of Sgram fitted as standard.
There are other factors which also affect how far you can overclock,but overclocking Sgram does not get the best performance out of the Bvision,its the bus speed which gives the best performance which is working here upto 41.83Mhz and shows benchmarks I have never seen before.
Flashrom & Bvision driver may gain more performance.
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delshay, you really know your stuff, no doubt. but right now Im just happy with the standard bvision, I will not overclock :) indeed, one of the bvisions is missing components, you have a good eye for details :)
actually I think the bvision is an excellent card. sure, its not very fast anymore but its more or less the only way to get rtg to your a1200 without buying a pc card like voodoo. for me, that counts. for many others, it doesnt.
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If Bvision was working in the past,then stop working then you have to assume the problem may return as it seems you have done nothing other than just changed Bvision.
The PCB you insert maybe work itself a little loose and comes into contact with Bvision maybe when you move the unit or due to vibration.
If the PCB is very near to Bvision then I recommend a very thin piece of flexible plastic cut to size and glued to the underside of the PCB to cover all solder contact. Glue just the four corners of the PCB not all of the card.
HOT GLUE recommended,but I would get a expert to do this for you.
Before doing all above you need to be sure the PCB is not damaging your Bvision and given that it is now working going back and disturbing the card(s) may trigger of the fault again and may permanently damage the Bvision again.
If the fault returns you are going to think I should have looked into it further.
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Bvision can be fast as the PC version if all the talk of DMA driver & 41.5Mhz bus. It will be good enough for standard browsing,but I have seen it do some awesome performance with 3D games with 1024x768 16bit on classic amiga and given from what I have seen voodoo cards are going to need better driver besides I like my wedge shape A1200.
Blizzard PowerPC 350Mhz.
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The PCB you insert maybe work itself a little loose and comes into contact with Bvision maybe when you move the unit or due to vibration.
hang on, what do you mean with PCB? you mean the bvision or the motherboard here?
stachu looked at my problem (from a distance) and concluded it must have been overheating, thats why I added a 80mm fan. that thing is huge. if the cause was really heat, then I think this has solved it. but still im interested in hearing about other precautions, thats why I asked my previous question. please let me know.
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I may have made a error,but did you not say you plug-in a PCB on to the connector for tower LED display, I must be wrong sorry for the confusion as I don't have time to read back though thread.
Disregard last few comments,enjoy.
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ah yes, that one. Indeed I do. Ive already made sure its insulated even more. theres for sure no solder points sticking out and touching the bvision now. thanks for sharing your concerns :)