Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Kosh on January 20, 2004, 05:13:33 PM
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I don't know if anyone else has noticed (I tried to look for another thread but didn't find one) but AmigaOS 4.0 made it into Wired News... however it made it into their 7th annual Vaporware awards at the #9 slot.
From the article:
9. Amiga OS 4.0 (Amiga)
Perhaps not coincidentally, Amiga also made the same No. 9 slot in last year's Vaporware Awards for failing to ship its long-promised, next-generation Amiga machines. Well, the hardware appeared but the operating system is still missing.
"After four years of promises and slipped schedules (original release date June 2001), this is still vapor in the extreme," wrote reader Nate Downes. "They have resorted to demos of a pre-alpha version running on a Mai reference motherboard, with hopes and dreams of it shipping by the end of the month. They always fail to mention which month."
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The full article (3 pages long) can be found Here (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,61935,00.html)
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Marvelous. Even bad publicity is publicity ;-).
Interesting that they chose an employee of the main competitor to describe the situation ;-)
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Interesting that they chose an employee of the main competitor to describe the situation
I wonder if that was really him. Funny, in a way. I just pray this doesn't start the factions warring again :-o
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No, I have no relation to the so-called K.O.S.H. I've gone by this nickname online for 10 years now and won't let something like that make me change. I'm stubborn ;-)
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Nahh.. we were talking about Nate Downes, who posts here as Downix.
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Kosh wrote:
No, I have no relation to the so-called K.O.S.H. I've gone by this nickname online for 10 years now and won't let something like that make me change. I'm stubborn ;-)
I just assumed you were Fleecy :-P
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xeron wrote:
Nahh.. we were talking about Nate Downes, who posts here as Downix.
Nate's a good guy, he was just stating his mind. IMO they probably picked him for the simple fact his vote probably was the only one that didn't say "F***ING CROOKS BASTARD SHEEP SHAGGING BLAH BLAH BLAH".
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Well, hopefully my new sig clears things up ;-)
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This is the second year OS 4.0 has made the list as I reported last year. (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43811) Fortunately, Duke Nuke 'Em Forever, the Lifetime Acheivement Award winner, will probably never be released saving OS 4.0 from that "honor".
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I do hope that if/when OS4 is released, there'll be an easter egg, with an anti-credits page dedicated to all the people who said it would never happen.
Personally I think OS4 will arrive. My last estimate was June last year, so I'll change that to June this year :-)
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Well, he's done it now. Looks like all famous people, he's got his own fan club (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2985&forum=16). :-D
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Argo wrote:
Well, he's done it now. Looks like all famous people, he's got his own fan club (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2985&forum=16). :-D
Shame that some people do not know the difference between a personal opinion, and a competitor company's smear. Oh well, I knew that would happen.
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Well, he's done it now. Looks like all famous people, he's got his own fan club.
?
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redrumloa wrote:
Nate's a good guy, he was just stating his mind. IMO they probably picked him for the simple fact his vote probably was the only one that didn't say "F***ING CROOKS BASTARD SHEEP SHAGGING BLAH BLAH BLAH".
Exactly my thoughts. (As a side note, I didn't nominate AOS4 or write anything about it to Wired myself, so that's one less "F***ING CROOKS WAAH WAAH"... ;))
The frenzy they're whipping themselves into over at the True Amigan(TM) Protective Quarantine right now is sort of cute. Now they found the obligatory strawman and scapegoat. Kinda Let's ignore that he's right, he works for The Other Side, and Wired was probably payed to publish a quote from HIM and only HIM. Come to think of it, Wired was probably PAYED to reward AOS4 a place this year, because there's no way that anybody but Nate Downes would nominate AOS4... No way.
:P
Nate is right, and it's sad that he's right. Was he supposed to try to hide reality just to be what Bouma likes to call "constructive"?
A bit funny though that Wired themselves seem to think that there will be "next generation Amiga machines". But hey, I think some old crap about "new Amigas" is still to be found somewhere on amiga.com, so It Must Be True.
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Did i miss something? who promised to release OS4 this year?? I know there was promises last year by ainc, but i have seen none this year...
Who is this Nate anyways?
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Did i miss something?
You and me both :-)
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@mikeymike
Follow the link to aw.net, some people there are slamming Nate and apparently sending hate mail to Wired for posting his coment.
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Nate Downs (Genesi)
Amazing.... You should be ASHAMED of yourself Genesi!
You people have no gone sinked lower than ever.. sigh
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Amazing.... You should be ASHAMED of yourself Genesi!
You people have no gone sinked lower than ever.. sigh
It wasnt Nate Downes deciding awards, was it?
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redrumloa wrote:
Follow the link to aw.net, some people there are slamming Nate and apparently sending hate mail to Wired for posting his coment.
Pathetic, but not really surprising (http://pulp.wrongpla.net/news/index.php?module=article&view=34). I'm just glad all the loons got concentrated in one site, after the rest of the Amiga sites refused to be unfair and unbalanced. :)
"Discipline 2: [Selective Trolling Competition]
React to as many as possible of even the most slightly negative statements about OS4, Amiga Inc or Hyperion with foam-mouthed fury bordering on apoplexy, and call even far more technically knowledgeable people than you 'trolls' when they point out obvious stuff, like "OS4 won't be available this year.""
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Tomas wrote:
Nate Downs (Genesi)
Amazing.... You should be ASHAMED of yourself Genesi!
You people have no gone sinked lower than ever.. sigh
Sigh..
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It wasnt Nate Downes deciding awards, was it?
what about this then?
9. Amiga OS 4.0 (Amiga)
Perhaps not coincidentally, Amiga also made the same No. 9 slot in last year's Vaporware Awards for failing to ship its long-promised, next-generation Amiga machines. Well, the hardware appeared but the operating system is still missing.
"After four years of promises and slipped schedules (original release date June 2001), this is still vapor in the extreme," wrote reader Nate Downes. "They have resorted to demos of a pre-alpha version running on a Mai reference motherboard, with hopes and dreams of it shipping by the end of the month. They always fail to mention which month."
"wrote reader Nate Downes." <---- this is lame enough..
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Tell me Tomas, how is this worse than Alan Redhouse's comments that the Pegasos was deliberately being underpriced to destroy Eyetech?
Another case of selective memory syndrome?
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This is a criticism of Amiga Inc, Hyperion, Genesi and Eyetech - You don't see normal companies slugging it out on forums with each other, so what qualifies employees of the above companies to do so?
It's this sort of childishness that "justifies" the idiotic elements of the "Amiga community" to go to the lengths they do.
For a while I quite respected Hyperion for not getting involved at all, but they ended up doing so. Sad.
I would have thought employers of such companies would prohibit their employees from slagging off competitors on any archived medium. It's just not professional, and doesn't impress potential customers.
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It's sad when people slate a guy for speaking his mind and telling the truth, as he sees it.
At Peter said, any publicity is GOOD publicity.
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"wrote reader Nate Downes." <---- this is lame enough..
Lame? Maybe in the readers eye, but Nate is a computer user stating an opinion. He's no CEO of genesi and was not speaking for them. His one vote certainly did not decide the award. To make something like a Wired award, there were an aweful alot of nonGenesi employees voting.
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Tell me Tomas, how is this worse than Alan Redhouse's comments that the Pegasos was deliberately being underpriced to destroy Eyetech?
I never heard about that, but indeed this is wrong too, if this is infact true. I really still doubt that Alan posted this to a public news site, as Genesi here did... This was just another attempt of hurting Amiga..
Lame? Maybe, but Nate is a computer user stating an opinion. He's no CEO of genesi and was not speaking for them. His one vote certainly did not decide the award.
It is not even fact! AmigaOS4 was never promised for 2003 afaik....
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as Genesi here did...
Genesi did not, an individual did. If you work at McDonald's cleaning the deep fryer, are you not allowed to have an opinion on the whopper in a public forum?
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Ugh... I'm already beginning to regret posting link to the Wired article, but I suppose if I didn't, someone else would have. It was just my intention to bring up an Amiga mention I noticed someplace else and I hope this doesn't digress into a nasty thread.
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Genesi did not, an individual did.
The CEO of Genesi has been here slagging off on various subjects before.
If you work at McDonald's, are you not allowed to have an opinion on the whopper in a public forum?
If McDonalds and Burger King were two small companies, whose reputations could be easily damaged by irresponsible employee comments, I would say no.
I have never even dreamed of publicly slating a competitor of any company that I have ever worked for.
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It is not even fact! AmigaOS4 was never promised for 2003 afaik....
The world outside of the Amiga community doesn't know the internal politics and dates promised. It was promised originally for release in 2001 by Amiga Inc IIRC.
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I hope this doesn't digress into a nasty thread
Trust me, it will :roll: And if it didn't, someone's posted it as "news" anyway ;-)
But hey, it's your first post - welcome to A.org :pint:
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The CEO of Genesi has been in here slagging this that and the other off before.
And Fleecy/Bill have done the exact same thing, slagging their competitor. My point is Nate is no high level employee, and it's pure coincidence that his feedback was chosen for the article.
I have never even dreamed of publicly slating a competitor of any company that I have ever worked for.
Again, he wasn't speaking as a Genesi rep but as a user. Why can't he speak as a user? That same argument has used against the moderating crew here at Amiga.org. You work for a site names "Amiga.org", how dare you speak a personal opinion that does not bow only to Amiga Inc?
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Okay, I work for Genesi, and I learned of this from Nate, who was
rather upset that they had quoted his email (out of the number they
recieved). He didn't twist their arm to quote him, he only told his
personal opinion, and was not writing that email on the behalf of
Genesi.
If the bag-boy at Safeway says that Winn-Dixie's store-brand soda
sucks does it mean very much? We aren't talking about Genesi's
president, COO, or spokesperson. He happens to work with us. It is
not a requirement at Genesi to "check your opinion at the door." He
has his opinion, and is entitled to it. Genesi didn't get this thing
published, Wired did. Do I think he made a mistake in judgement? Of
coarse I do. Do I think he should be nailed to the proverbial cross?
No, but I'm betting someone from Genesi will be all in his face
anyway....
@Nate
No, I don't consider you our bag boy. I was just making a point that
you aren't the CEO or the company spokesperson.
[returning to lurk mode]
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Tomas wrote:
I never heard about that, but indeed this is wrong too, if this is infact true. I really still doubt that Alan posted this to a public news site, as Genesi here did...
He said it, in person, and it was recorded into mpg for everyone to watch and listen.
And Genesi did not post this. Nate Downes did. There is a world of difference.
And you can't hurt Amiga by posting the truth. If the truth hurts Amiga, then hurting it is unavoidable except by lying.
It is not even fact! AmigaOS4 was never promised for 2003 afaik....
It was. Several times.
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What I consider a**-backward is that all these people seem to forget that OS4 was having same spot on the same vaporware list year ago. So this has nothing to do with any comment Downix has made. Blame Vired-site people for considering it waporware, if you'll can't take it as it is.
IMHO it's still a somewhat comforting to see it on list of Wapor .... At least some people still do care about OS4 and it's potelntial delivery.
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And Fleecy/Bill have done the exact same thing, slagging their competitor.
See my first post to this thread. I criticised all the major players in the Amiga business for doing that.
Again, he wasn't speaking as a Genesi rep but as a user. Why can't he speak as a user?
See what I wrote about your McDonalds example. If he wants to speak out about a competitor, he should go with some level of anonymity, so his comments can't possibly be associated with the company he works for.
Why do you suppose a lot of companies nowadays have 2KB sigs with legal notices in, along the lines of seperating the company from the employee in case he says anything stupid?
That same argument has used against the moderating crew here at Amiga.org.
Can if you like. Have you heard me publicly slate Amigaworld.net before? (I don't think I've slated them in private either, but anyway :-))
You work for a site names "Amiga.org", how dare you speak a personal opinion that does not bow only to Amiga Inc?
I think that's a bit of an apples and oranges example, but the long and short of it is, we're not affiated with Amiga Inc.
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Can if you like. Have you heard me publicly slate Amigaworld.net before?
I didn't say you had, but I know moderators and other staff members have posted personal opinions on many occasions, myself included when I was a mod. Quite a few times the offending person was nailed to the cross by the foaming at the mouth masses.
I think that's a bit of an apples and oranges example, but the long and short of it is, we're not affiated with Amiga Inc.
It's comparing green apples to red apples. As far as many are concerned you should not be allowed to have a personal opinion because this is an "Amiga" fan site. I can point to plenty of examples from the recent past.
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Nate's opinion or company smear? Who cares, his statements are _not correct_ anyway.
Anyway if he's still working at Genesi I must say he fits perfectly to the style BB had (on ANN) earlier on.
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redrumloa wrote:
Can if you like. Have you heard me publicly slate Amigaworld.net before?
I didn't say you had, but I know moderators and other staff members have posted personal opinions on many occasions, myself included when I was a mod. Quite a few times the offending person was nailed to the cross by the foaming at the mouth masses.
I post my personal opinions here more often than not as well, but I don't see what this has to do with what we're talking about. The only fair comparison would be "AO and AW.NET", and I certainly haven't indulged, because I don't think it's the right thing to do.
I think that's a bit of an apples and oranges example, but the long and short of it is, we're not affiated with Amiga Inc.
It's comparing green apples to red apples. As far as many are concerned you should not be allowed to have a personal opinion because this is an "Amiga" fan site. I can point to plenty of examples from the recent past.
Adding to your hypothetical situation (because otherwise I don't think the compliant is in the slightest bit valid), say for example if Amiga Inc were providing the resources to host this site, then I wouldn't think it would be the right thing to do to be slating them publicly, unless I had got an agreement from them that anyone involved in the running of the site can express their opinions no matter what, and also to have a notice saying that the people who maintain the website are not affiliated with Amiga Inc. Though if it were me responsible for such a potential situation, I think I'd decline anyway, because seperation from any potentially conflicting elements should be crystal clear.
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Troels_E wrote:
Nate's opinion or company smear? Who cares, his statements are _not correct_ anyway.
Anyway if he's still working at Genesi I must say he fits perfectly to the style BB had (on ANN) earlier on.
Then why not point out the "wrong" parts of Nate's comments to redress the balance?
PS I know this is a trick question :-)
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That's something I REALLY didn't want to see. I'm afraid that I have to update my address book to reduce one entry. *shakes head*
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"pre-alpha".. No, actually Beta versions have been shown and are distributed to the beta testers a long time ago.
"Mai reference motherboard" In my opinion what is sold is not the Mai reference board, it is the same design but produced elsewhere thus not a Mai board.
Same goes for (example) videocards based on same reference design but produced at diffrent factories, they are not sold as ATI reference cards but as Sapphire, Club-3D, Asus,GeCube and other brand names.
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Hmm.... I shouldn't get into this. Ah well... what the heck?
Basically, the comments were correct, if a little exaggerated.
Pre-alpha vs. Beta versions.... What's in a name? Technically, of course, you're right. They're Beta versions, because that is what the official Amiga reps are calling them. What makes a Beta over a Alpha or even a Pre-Alpha, though? Well, that depends on who you ask. There hasn't been a demo of OS4 close enough to my location for me to visit and make a determination of how far along they are to chime in my 2c worth. Suffice it to say AmigaOS 4 is not in a shippable state, though. Hence, calling it a Pre-Alpha may be an exaggeration, but not wholly inaccurate, either.
Mai reference board. I think there is a translation issue here. What is being sold is EXACTLY a Mai reference board, afaik. What a REFERENCE BOARD means is that it is produced exactly to the OEM REFERENCE DESIGN. My GeForce4Ti by Chaintech is a REFERENCE nVidia GeForce4Ti board, because Chaintech made no modifications of their own to the nVidia design before they manufactured it. They simply manufacture copies of nVidia's base design. It is sold as a Chaintech, because they manufactured it, but it is still properly referred to as an nVidia reference board.
As for the rest of it.... Really, Amiga has degraded into a running joke, like Duke Nukem Forever. This marks at least the third time Amiga has made the list. It was #2 in 1999, and #9 in both 2002 and 2003.
1999 awards (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,33142,00.html?tw=wn_story_related)
2002 awards (http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,57023,00.html?tw=wn_story_related)
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No, actually Beta versions have been shown and are distributed to the beta testers a long time ago.
Not that it matters, but out of curiosity, how can you tell apart a demoed alpha or beta version?
Learning from past threads, it seems OS4 betatester team has a pretty much different definition of "beta" than the rest of the world.
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Mai reference board. I think there is a translation issue here. What is being sold is EXACTLY a Mai reference board, afaik. What a REFERENCE BOARD means is that it is produced exactly to the OEM REFERENCE DESIGN. My GeForce4Ti by Chaintech is a REFERENCE nVidia GeForce4Ti board, because Chaintech made no modifications of their own to the nVidia design before they manufactured it. They simply manufacture copies of nVidia's base design. It is sold as a Chaintech, because they manufactured it, but it is still properly referred to as an nVidia reference board.
On a motherboard context, there was an interview with NVIDIA PR on what degree does the motherboard manufactures follows the reference nForce2 class motherboards i.e. they stated that LeadTek would be the closest while ASUS was the opposite. They could base their designs on the reference design but they may substitute some of surrounding components towards the cheaper end e.g. Chaintech’s nForce2 has the worst AC97 DACs.
On the NVIDIA GeForce FX (e.g. 5800/Ultra, 5900/Ultra and 5950) front, the manufacturing of those GFX cards are tighter than the nForce2 motherboards. There could be some variance in relation to cooling solutions and the quality of memory installed.
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"wrote reader Nate Downes." <---- this is lame enough..
There’s some economic considerations in relation to Nate Downes’s statements i.e. an employee(stakeholder) of Genesi.
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redrumloa wrote:
It is not even fact! AmigaOS4 was never promised for 2003 afaik....
The world outside of the Amiga community doesn't know the internal politics and dates promised. It was promised originally for release in 2001 by Amiga Inc IIRC.
I recall, that particular “AmigaOS 4.0” spec is just like a PPC ‘*Amithlon’ with a eye candy add-ons.
One could have used the code name method (i.e. Anvil, Longhorn, Chicago and ‘etc’) before applying it on the final release label.
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What's in a name? Technically, of course, you're right.
Overall, he's right too. Unless of course you feel that it would be a bright idea for any company to try and set themselves up as a custom chip designer for a small niche platform. I think funding short of half a billion pounds to set up such a venture would almost certainly fail. Maybe a billion pounds.
So let's not start nitpicking about board designs.
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Shame that some people do not know the difference between a personal opinion, and a competitor company's smear. Oh well, I knew that would happen.
The difference between a personal opinion and a competitor's smear is the context it's posted in.
I find it hillarious that Wired quotes the main competitor of a product ON the product. I really don't give a rat's ass if Nate asked for it. That's not what I'm angry about. It's been quoted, that's the point.
Sorry, but that is competitor's smear.
And that from "nice" Nate Downs who calls my a sychophant on Slashdot, well knowing I don't read that site. Yeah, very nice.
Having said that: Great, we're on the same list as Half Life 2. Heck, if they can't keep thier schedule with their budget, I'm awfully proud that we can't, either :-D
Oh, and Downix: Thanks a lot for calling me a sychophant. I really appreciate that.
Edit: By the way, it's spelled "sycophants" :-D
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I recall, that particular “AmigaOS 4.0” spec is just like a PPC ‘*Amithlon’ with a eye candy add-ons...
Do you have a point to this? If not, please don't troll. It's a potentially dodgy hot topic as it is.
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mikeymike wrote:
I recall, that particular “AmigaOS 4.0” spec is just like a PPC ‘*Amithlon’ with a eye candy add-ons...
Do you have a point to this? If not, please don't troll. It's a potentially dodgy hot topic as it is.
Well, one should specifically state the 'regime' that the product is under.
PS; trolling??? I recall, I have not insulted the said person. Unlike the others, I don’t have any stake on any of PPC solutions provided.
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@mikeymike-
Overall, he's right too. Unless of course you feel that it would be a bright idea for any company to try and set themselves up as a custom chip designer for a small niche platform.
No, he is not right in what was said. As far as I know the A1 is a Mai reference design. Therefore, again, as far as I know, saying it is not, is incorrect.
Now, was it the right move to make the A1 based on a reference design? Of course it was! It would be sheer folly to try to design a totally new system on a shoestring budget. I'm not saying it's a bad move. I'm just saying it is totally correct to call it a reference board.
So let's not start nitpicking about board designs.
I'm not. I'm nitpicking other people's statements. ;-)
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I find it hillarious that Wired quotes the main competitor of a product ON the product.
I found it funny too. Although we both know Wired probably has no clue who Hyperion or Genesi is. They do know the name Amiga though.
And that from "nice" Nate Downs who calls my a sychophant on Slashdot, well knowing I don't read that site.
I have never seen that, but then again I do not read Slashdot myself.
Having said that: Great, we're on the same list as Half Life 2.
It's great publicity, and i really mean that! If you were able to release OS4 soon you could use that publicity to your advantage.
*Edit*
BTW, i thought OS4 was going to be released for CyberstormPPC users first? I am buying a CSPPC and I wouldn't mind having OS4 run on it. Is the CSPPC version still coming first?
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Pathetic, but not really surprising. I'm just glad all the loons got concentrated in one site, after the rest of the Amiga sites refused to be unfair and unbalanced. :)
It's great to see you call people with different opinions "loons". It's just exemplary for your hypocritical self-rightousness. You could go over there and try to start a sensible discussion, but you prefer to call them "loons" from a distance.
To tell you the truth, I wasn't the least upset about being on that list. There is no denying that we've been delayed over and over again. What I found offensive was Nate's comment, which was mostly exaggerated (see my reasoning on aw.net if are unbalanced enough to hear out the other side; I am not going to repeat it again).
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It's great to see you call people with different opinions "loons". It's just exemplary for your hypocritical self-rightousness. You could go over there and try to start a sensible discussion, but you prefer to call them "loons" from a distance.
Yeah, I get sick of people labelling me just because I use amigaworld.net forums. Can anyone quote messages that prove I'm a "loon"? Hmm, you might be able to find some that prove I'm still new to AmigaOS programming :) , but a "loon".. come on.
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Generally speaking, to speak bad about your competitors is probably the worst thing you could do. It's so much better to focus on your own strenghts than on your competitors weakneses. There are numorous examples of this, both in business and in politics. If there is the slightest possibility/risc that what you are saying may be quoted in public, follow this rule. Even if the privacy is tight, follow it anyway!
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Rogue wrote:
It's great to see you call people with different opinions "loons". It's just exemplary for your hypocritical self-rightousness.
Lando (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1062093811&category=news&number=144#comment) said it better than I ever could. Hypocritical self-righteousness is pretty much a signature for AW, so you sure do have a nerve.
You could go over there and try to start a sensible discussion, but you prefer to call them "loons" from a distance.
I prefer to only visit places where other opinions rather than the official line are tolerated. Besides which, some AW forums are silly. Really, they are. AW can be simultaneously laughable and creepy. Creepy because nobody seems to challenge totally stupid posts - probably for fear of being labelled a troll. Anyway, what good would it do.
I mean, maybe if someone actually TRIED to ask Fleecy a MEANINGFUL question or looked constructively at Amiga matters, it might help - but there's no way to do that at AW. Its bubble of alternate reality is just maintained far too well.
This whole Nate Downes thing is just absolutely indicitive of the reputation AW now has - and has earned. I see they're busy setting him up as the next antichrist. Farewell to reality.
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Generally speaking, to speak bad about your competitors is probably the worst thing you could do. It's so much better to focus on your own strenghts than on your competitors weakneses. There are numorous examples of this, both in business and in politics. If there is the slightest possibility/risc that what you are saying may be quoted in public, follow this rule. Even if the privacy is tight, follow it anyway!
I must agree there 100%. And i have always wondered why MorphOS/Genesi ppl NEVER focus on their own strenghts. The only thing they do is try to ridicule the competition and the people interested in the competing product, even personally insulting them.
Frankly, i don't get this attitude. I really don't. Could it be that MorphOS really still is that weak that there is not much to boast about? Certainly seems that way if you look at what Genesi, BBRV and employees are doing.
With a different approach, i believe that they would have attracted a LOT more amiga users than they have now. In fact, this approach from BBRV and employees really is doing more damage than good. I hope they will realise that some day. And it definately is holding me back from buying what seems to be a very decent AmigaOS alternative.
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Lando said it better than I ever could. Hypocritical self-righteousness is pretty much a signature for AW, so you sure do have a nerve.
Regardless of what you might think about the moderators or their style of moderation, it doesn't give you the right to call all that go there "loons", as much as it wouldn't give me the right to call all Morphos.net attendees "loons", which I never did.
Creepy because nobody seems to challenge totally stupid posts - probably for fear of being labelled a troll.
Yeah, "don't feed the trolls unless they speak in the opposite direction". Do you really think that this wouldn't happen on morphos-centered site? Be honest.
This whole Nate Downes thing is just absolutely indicitive of the reputation AW now has - and has earned. I see they're busy setting him up as the next antichrist. Farewell to reality.
If "that Nate Downes thing" is indicative for Aw.net, then your calling a general group of people "loons" just because they visit and frequent a certain web site is indicative of your kind.
So it all boils down to the reasoning "They are loons because I know they are"? That is what I call self-rightiousness.
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BTW, i thought OS4 was going to be released for CyberstormPPC users first? I am buying a CSPPC and I wouldn't mind having OS4 run on it. Is the CSPPC version still coming
That is still the plan. The upcoming developer release isn't a release in the sense that we declare it finished, but rather a possibility for those with Earlybirds to start using and developing on it. The idea is still to get the CSPPC "release" done first (possibly with the BPPC version on the same disk, although that depends on the state of the device drivers at that time).
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And i have always wondered why MorphOS/Genesi ppl NEVER focus on their own strenghts.
That is not true. Your statement is not fair. :-(
With a different approach, i believe that they would have attracted a LOT more amiga users than they have now. In fact, this approach from BBRV and employees really is doing more damage than good. I hope they will realise that some day. And it definately is holding me back from buying what seems to be a very decent AmigaOS alternative.
OK, I am biting your bate, I am falling into the trap!
So this is some judgement day, and you are a judge? OK then, go back a year or two in forums and read forward. The Pegasos/MorphOS "supporters" has allways had to fight from below, allways had to defend their alternative way from the allways *so holy* but never available "official" branch. Count the laughs about unstability issues, count the mockery, etc. Why did key MOS/Pegasos people like Ralph Schmidt stop posting on public forums? Posters was burnt, insane personal insults were made, there seemed to be no end to the mockery. Ben Hermans was a key mud slinger. Sources like ann.lu still holds everything intact for the interested. I am sure that you will see that any "aggressive approaches" were only responses to insane aggressions!
Perhaps you don't realize that your "with a different approach" goes the other way around too? Why is people like "Eva" on ann posting with such energy? Isn't it possible that the approach of Ben Hermans&Co scared away people from OS4 too?
However, the Pegasos/MorphOS has **proven their case**, time after time. I have personally owned a Pegasos 1 (april1), a Pegasos 1 (april2), a Pegasos 2, MorphOS1.0-1.4. I have enjoyed that for over a year now, so I know what I am talking about.
The strengths of the Pegasos and MorphOS speaks for itself. No "Fleecy Hype" is needed. Don't pretend otherwise!
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>...Nate, who was rather upset that they had quoted his email (out of the number they recieved).
FWIW, I was the "reader" quoted in last year's Wired Vaporware article, and they didn't inform me ahead of time they were going to quote me.
I had made my "nomination" on the day the call-for-submissions article was put online, so I'd be interested to learn if Nate did the same this time around. Mayhap Wired just culled a quote from the first day, then counted succeeding nominations?
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I wonder if that was really him. Funny, in a way. I just pray this doesn't start the factions warring again
Hate to say it, but yes, that is really me.
I can't believe they picked ME out of every submission to quote!
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Even though they put that his comment was posted by a "reader", it's still being reported as news and people now will be citing his comment as fact. The sad thing is, off-hand comments with no factual basis are often reported as fact. I thought what's been shown in the roadshow was a beta. How old is Nate's info?
One thing cool, though, is that to get on the list (from what I gather), there have to be people who really wanted it to come out. So, being on the list is really a good thing, in a way. :-)
On other thing, I don't remember any promises of AOS4.0 being out in 2003. Did I miss that announcement? I remember only them saying that they wouldn't be making any announcements until they had something to release. It's been "it'll come out when it's done" for a while now, hasn't it?
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I had made my "nomination" on the day the call-for-submissions article was put online, so I'd be interested to learn if Nate did the same this time around. Mayhap Wired just culled a quote from the first day, then counted succeeding nominations?
Actually yes, I think I sent mine in within the first few hours of the nominating.
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I take it as fate, kismet, it was meant to be. That's just the way of things in the Amiga Community.
Out of all the submissions for Amiga OS 4.0, why did they have to quote him? See above. It's like Amiga, Inc. and Genesi, SARL are locked in some epic battle the kind waged by legendary ancient gods for eons. Only in this case, given the size of the market and community, on the microscopic scale. Okay, okay, so it's like two three year old duking it out in the sandbox over who gets to decide where to build the sand castle. :-?
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It's great to see you call people with different opinions "loons". It's just exemplary for your hypocritical self-rightousness. You could go over there and try to start a sensible discussion, but you prefer to call them "loons" from a distance.
A sensible discussion? On aw.net?
Have you even read that thread you're talking about? Is that what you call sensible discussion?
A whole website full of people laying into one guy, just because he happened to state some facts they don't like. What Nate said was 100% accurate.
They're behaving as if it's his fault you and your company have completely failed to deliver what you promised.
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Hey, can you believe that Houston's got Roger Clemens and Andy Pettit on their pitching roster?!?? :-D The Astros might actually make it out of the Pennant race this year.
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Well, one good thing it does show is that there is anticipation for the product. Enough to get it listed in the Top Ten "Announced, Want to Have, but it's not Out Yet!" List.
I wonder how many other products were nominated that didn't make the list.
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i totally agree with Z5 on this , it didnt take me many days to see where genesi was going , anyway i am glad to see that yet again the NAME "AMIGA" is on every news board around and beeing with the likes of Halflife 2 etc , i am glad os4 will come eventually :)
anyway that said, i hope that everyone by now understands that Amiga and Genesi aint exactly friends but sometimes enemies or rivals need to be friends atleast imho they should comunicate.
getting very sick of all the fights atm..
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I really don't want to get involved with this mess, so I'm going to offer this, and say no more on the subject:
I think this whole issue exposes a flaw with Wired's "pop journalism" technique.
1) It seems Mr. Downes submitted OS4 for the vapor award very shortly after submissions began. It is possible it was the first nomination for OS4 and subsequent nominations merely added to the count and were not checked for new/alternative info.
2) As a reader, Mr. Downes is very much entitled to submit an opinion. However, as an employee of Genesi it seems near impossible to leave some level of bias, no matter how small, out of his opinion.
3) Wired made no attempt to verify Mr. Downes identity (as an employee of a competitor). This I can forgive (I didn't even know this myself until I started reading this thread), but a really good journalist would have discovered it.
4) Most importantly, Wired apparently made no attempt to verify Mr. Downes' statement. Note that the following are assumptions, not fact:
a)They didn't check any community sites, either AW or AO (or others), to see what's been happening in the community/market.
b)They didn't check with AmigaInc, Eyetech, or Hyperion on the status of OS4 and the A1 boards.
c)They didn't even talk to Genesi to report about a currently available AmigaOS alternative.
Bottom Line: Wired is reporting opinion as fact, and that's extremely unprofessional for a supposed "reputable news source."
Final Point: Can we bury the hatchet, please? No more muckraking, no more trolling. I'm so sick of reading this stuff...
Dislcaimer: No offense is intended to Mr. Downes, AO, AW, Genesi, AInc, Hyperion, Eyetech, or any other party with the exception of Wired.
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@Matt_H
I already stated a desire to bury the hatchet, several times in fact.
And I still do not consider Genesi a competitor to neither Eyetech nor Hyperion, as neither of them provide solutions, as Genesi does. Eyetech is, by any standards, a reseller, not a designer/manufacturer. Hyperion is a software house. Genesi does not resell as a general rule nor does it develop and sell software, thereby eliminating it as a competitor to either.
If Eyetech tomorrow were to login to the Genesi site and sign up as a reseller, purchasing 20 Pegasos 2 boards... you know what the first words out of bbrv's mouth would be? "Their cash is green, ship them some." If Hyperion wrote to Genesi saying "Hey, we'd like to get OS4 onto the Pegasos" Genesi would have a board in their hands faster than you could say jack robinson. Genesi is above everything else a business, and they mean to stay in business. Genesi's competitor here is not Eyetech, Hyperion nor even Amiga, Inc. It is Mai's resellers division, the section the manufactures the AmgiaONE for Eyetech.
Does this make sence to anyone else?
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Nope, it doesn't. I don't understand Blue logic. I've tried, but just can't wrap my mind around it. Not to worry though, I have almost as much trouble with Red logic. I think the problem is that people tend to make up their own definitions of what things are, so there is no continuity from one person's argument to another in a debate or discussion.
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Okay, so I stretched the truth a bit when I said my previous post would be my only one on the topic...
@ downix
Thanks for stating your view on the subject. I wish that was the way more people saw things. Nothing would make me happier than to see AInc/Hyperion/Eyetech and Genesi combine resources.
As of right now however, the market is divided, and the A1/OS4 and Peg/MOS appear to me, the user, as competing products (hence the statement in my previous post).
I am trying to remain neutral throughout this whole crisis...
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A sensible discussion? On aw.net?
Have you even read that thread you're talking about? Is that what you call sensible discussion?
A whole website full of people laying into one guy, just because he happened to state some facts they don't like. What Nate said was 100% accurate.
"Pre-alpha" is accurate?
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Hyperion is a software house. Genesi does not resell as a general rule nor does it develop and sell software
I recall, both Hyperion and Genesi develop similar targeted operating systems. Both are gathering developers for each of their respective operating systems.
It is Mai's resellers division, the section the manufactures the AmgiaONE for Eyetech
Perhaps you are referring to the said “far east“ (Taiwanese) company?
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OK, I am biting your bate, I am falling into the trap!
It was not meant as flame bate. The negativity surrounding Genesi and some very vocal employees and supporters is tempering my enthusiasm to buy one. That's how i feel about it.
But if you think that comments like those from "Eva" do the morphOS platform any good, than...
And indeed, maybe you are right. They still may feel themselves to be the underdog. That's just what i was trying to say. But why do they still need to?
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But if you think that comments like those from "Eva" do the morphOS platform any good, than...
You know very well nobody likes her style and continuos bitching. Nobody.
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Added to this: I find it strange that something what obviously exists can be called Vaporware. Vaporware is "just hot air", meaning it does not exist (though OS 4 is not the only thing wrongly on the list, it seems... I guess Halflife 2 also really exists in some at least already playable version, hehehe :) )
Steffen
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You know very well nobody likes her style and continuos bitching. Nobody
That's why i didn't understand why Takemyhomegrandma mentioned her as the example. It really is the worst publicity one can have. And yes, even in such a small market, publicity is important.
Anyway, shouldn't mix in such useless discussions. Personally, i think that even one demo from Ephidrena or TBL or any other group will convince more than any of the useless bitching from the past years together.
You've got your platform. Well, bring it forward in a positive way. Not by "accidentally" commenting as an employee on a competitor product.
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Pathetic... but hey! it is an honor to be near Half-Life 2!!!!!!!!! ;-) :-o
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Rogue wrote:
Regardless of what you might think about the moderators or their style of moderation, it doesn't give you the right to call all that go there "loons"...
That's right. Which is why I didn't say that. AW may be a focal point for these types, but it's a stretch to say they're all like that. I know they're not. And it's AW's own fault that some are. It encourages such behaviour with its bizarre moderation style and can hardly complain when their efforts bear the fruit they wanted.
Yeah, "don't feed the trolls unless they speak in the opposite direction". Do you really think that this wouldn't happen on morphos-centered site? Be honest.
Ok, to be honest: it never actually comes up. MorphOS-centered sites don't discuss Amiga 'politics'. They discuss things related to MorphOS. If you're saying that AmigaWorld wants to be like that for OS4, maybe it should be renamed AmigaOS4World?
If "that Nate Downes thing" is indicative for Aw.net, then your calling a general group of people "loons" just because they visit and frequent a certain web site...So it all boils down to the reasoning "They are loons because I know they are"?
No, I call them loons because they are. I don't really care what OS, hardware or site they chose. They're adults. It's the "GENSEI SI LAME!!!!1 it is so funny", the "Petition to get Doom3 ported to OS5, that would be GREAT!!!!!" kind of stuff that gets them their loony label. Even if you looked outside the community for views with no 'blue bias', they'd probably still think these people were ravening crazies. What 'kind' of people do you think these would be? Self-righteous? Or just sensible?
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Oh darn, I'm all out of popcorn. Hold the flaming and bitching while I get a new shipment, guys.
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No, I call them loons because they are. I don't really care what OS, hardware or site they chose. They're adults. It's the "GENSEI SI LAME!!!!1 it is so funny", the "Petition to get Doom3 ported to OS5, that would be GREAT!!!!!" kind of stuff that gets them their loony label
Dont forget the DPaint revival! :lol:
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KennyR wrote:
No, I call them loons because they are. I don't really care what OS, hardware or site they chose. They're adults. It's the "GENSEI SI LAME!!!!1 it is so funny", the "Petition to get Doom3 ported to OS5, that would be GREAT!!!!!" kind of stuff that gets them their loony label. Even if you looked outside the community for views with no 'blue bias', they'd probably still think these people were ravening crazies. What 'kind' of people do you think these would be? Self-righteous? Or just sensible?
My, my Kenny! What a high horse you have there!
I am the biggest culprit of such enthusiams, and is why I am the leading poster of some complete and utter crap. However, that does not give you the moral grounds for such a scathing, stereotypical (which your political persuasion precludes, allegedly) and utter blasphemy of a whole grouping of computing enthusiasts. I have seen many posts on different forums talking of "AWorld folk jerk off over Hermans" crap, I have seen this loony post, and I think, what complete #### this is. It's a fcuking computer for crying out loud! Who cares if someone likes a bit of plastic and two screws which essentially go up to make a computer, does that non-conformity with your view go to make everyone else a parasite, or "loony" as you so eloquently put it?
However, it is funny I tell you, for I too was a most angry young man. Full of political zeal, I would charge headlong into any conversation and behave in a bellicose manner. They would turn to me and call me a "loony". How much moreso, if one were to read your psychological assessment of the "loons" over at AWorld, how much would people in the wider community view yourself! You should not presume too much in your life, for I too experience many reversals in general life.
I am no techie when it comes to computers, I am a gamer at heart, but those people who purpotedly know "nothing" of the technical aspects of Amigas, have actually been ten times more forthcoming than yourself to assist me. Where were you when I needed help with my XSurf for example? I did not see you fall head over heels to help me out. However, it's easier to sit where you are, and laugh and point at the incompetencies of some 1900 members of Amigaworld, isn't it?
In any case, I cannot speak for all the members of Amigaworld, but I must ask something: Does one have to be a techie (and how is that assessed qualitatively?) in order to be an enthusiast of computers in general, and Amigas in particlular? If the answer is yes, then why is it that all manufacturers seek to expand into the general consumer base? Why are not these products sold only to the l337 g33|
I sit a crime to become enthusiastic of a port of a game to one's chosen platform? Bloody hell! Whole computer magazines are devoted to such subjects, yet you think it to be obscene and smacks of "lunacy". What will you do, O Kenny, slash your wrists because millions of people out there who are XBox enthusiasts, PS2 enthusiasts, PC enthusiasts, think differently to yourself maybe? At the end of the day, it is only a computer.
Never, speak in a derogatory manner of a whole group of people, who actively, or impassively, may disagree with an opinion of yours. If you wish to slam anyone who is a regular of Amigaworld for the things discussed above, then aim it at me, for it is I who possesses all those attributes, and especially of the "loon" factor. :crazy:
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Bodie_CI5 wrote:
KennyR wrote:
No, I call them loons because they are. I don't really care what OS, hardware or site they chose. They're adults. It's the "GENSEI SI LAME!!!!1 it is so funny", the "Petition to get Doom3 ported to OS5, that would be GREAT!!!!!" kind of stuff that gets them their loony label. Even if you looked outside the community for views with no 'blue bias', they'd probably still think these people were ravening crazies. What 'kind' of people do you think these would be? Self-righteous? Or just sensible?
My, my Kenny! What a high horse you have there!
I am the biggest culprit of such enthusiams, and is why I am the leading poster of some complete and utter crap. However, that does not give you the moral grounds for such a scathing, stereotypical (which your political persuasion precludes, allegedly) and utter blasphemy of a whole grouping of computing enthusiasts. I have seen many posts on different forums talking of "AWorld folk jerk off over Hermans" crap, I have seen this loony post, and I think, what complete #### this is. It's a fcuking computer for crying out loud! Who cares if someone likes a bit of plastic and two screws which essentially go up to make a computer, does that non-conformity with your view go to make everyone else a parasite, or "loony" as you so eloquently put it?
However, it is funny I tell you, for I too was a most angry young man. Full of political zeal, I would charge headlong into any conversation and behave in a bellicose manner. They would turn to me and call me a "loony". How much moreso, if one were to read your psychological assessment of the "loons" over at AWorld, how much would people in the wider community view yourself! You should not presume too much in your life, for I too experience many reversals in general life.
I am no techie when it comes to computers, I am a gamer at heart, but those people who purpotedly know "nothing" of the technical aspects of Amigas, have actually been ten times more forthcoming than yourself to assist me. Where were you when I needed help with my XSurf for example? I did not see you fall head over heels to help me out. However, it's easier to sit where you are, and laugh and point at the incompetencies of some 1900 members of Amigaworld, isn't it?
In any case, I cannot speak for all the members of Amigaworld, but I must ask something: Does one have to be a techie (and how is that assessed qualitatively?) in order to be an enthusiast of computers in general, and Amigas in particlular? If the answer is yes, then why is it that all manufacturers seek to expand into the general consumer base? Why are not these products sold only to the l337 g33|
I sit a crime to become enthusiastic of a port of a game to one's chosen platform? Bloody hell! Whole computer magazines are devoted to such subjects, yet you think it to be obscene and smacks of "lunacy". What will you do, O Kenny, slash your wrists because millions of people out there who are XBox enthusiasts, PS2 enthusiasts, PC enthusiasts, think differently to yourself maybe? At the end of the day, it is only a computer.
Never, speak in a derogatory manner of a whole group of people, who actively, or impassively, may disagree with an opinion of yours. If you wish to slam anyone who is a regular of Amigaworld for the things discussed above, then aim it at me, for it is I who possesses all those attributes, and especially of the "loon" factor. :crazy:
Woh!!! Sounds like you had that brewing for a long time! :-o
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@ Bloodline
Nah, spur of the moment thing:-D
Believe me, it is nothing personal as such. It does get to me when I see slanderous sentiments being thrown at people whom I consider to be friends, even though I may not have met them in person. At the end of the day, like I stated above, an Amiga is just a computer, that's all, nothing more nothing less. I don't really go into rants on the web (reduces actual quantity post time :-D ), but whole scathing insults really get to me. Oh well, c'est la vie (sp.?) as the French say. I hope that my above post reduces the acute abuse being hurled at each other, but it probably won't... :-(
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I prefer to only visit places where other opinions rather than the official line are tolerated.
I take it you also avoid Morphzone then?
FWIW, I've posted on AW several times that I've been using my Pegasos in favour of my A1 and no one seemed to mind.
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I take it you also avoid Morphzone then?
.. and next to that please provide the thread where someone was moderated for raising valid questions about MorphOS, Pegasos or Genesi.
You know as well as I do that there are no such rules, and you know what kind of storm it would rise on other forums if we moderate someone for asking sensitive questions.
EDIT:
Not that it would help in getting answers... seems like BBRV has stopped visiting MZ
Last Login: 2004/1/4 19:18 :-)
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by MagicSN on 2004/1/21 9:57:08
Added to this: I find it strange that something what obviously exists can be called Vaporware. Vaporware is "just hot air", meaning it does not exist (though OS 4 is not the only thing wrongly on the list, it seems... I guess Halflife 2 also really exists in some at least already playable version, hehehe :) )
Steffen
You'd then better read their official definition of Vaporware over at Wired. By Wired standards, OS4 is still Vaporware.
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Lando wrote:
It's great to see you call people with different opinions "loons". It's just exemplary for your hypocritical self-rightousness. You could go over there and try to start a sensible discussion, but you prefer to call them "loons" from a distance.
A sensible discussion? On aw.net?
Happens all the time.
Have you even read that thread you're talking about? Is that what you call sensible discussion?
Do you think this is a sensible discussion? My personal view is that this thread ( except I am here to point out to those readers who are not frothing at the mouth that you and your friend Kenny are exaggerating ), that one and any criticism of Nate over this is pointless, tedious and a bit of a waste of space. If his employers think that his remarks, coupled with his position, have put his company in a bad light that is up to them to deal with it.
A whole website full of people laying into one guy,
That is a lie. I count 8 people on that thread viewing Nate in a negative light on ethical grounds and 1 borderline "laying into".
That is 8 of 1800+, of which approx 250 are inactive and 2 duplicate accounts left.
just because he happened to state some facts they don't like.
Misrepresentation. If Ray Akey or some other non senior Amiga Inc figure was quoted on Wired slamming and exaggerating vapourous Genesi promises you would sharply get the "ethics" point that is being made.
What Nate said was 100% accurate.
No, but lets not get into that again, it has been covered ad infinitum.
They're behaving as if it's his fault you and your company have completely failed to deliver what you promised.
Another lie.
I suggest you do a bit of reading when you are calmer and perhaps more equitable in your own views and try to provide some supporting evidence for your claims, if you do see any level of viciousness and victimisation report it to DaveyD.
For two people that are so rabidly anti-amigaworld.net ( KennyR and yourself ) you sure visit it a hell of a lot to remark about it on other sites. Odd behavior I think.
Take note of my only comment on that thread, the last one, before you start aiming the vitriol cannon at me.
Dave.
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Lando wrote:
. . . . .
A whole website full of people laying into one guy, just because he happened to state some facts they don't like. What Nate said was 100% accurate.
. . . . . . .
Two untruths here!
~ I hadn't made a comment at AW, in that thread, so its not a "whole website full of people laying into one guy" at all!
~ What Eyetech market currently (the XE motherboard) is different from the MAI Rerference Motherboards!
Different Firmware, different CPU, etc.
As the design progressed pictures were posted to forums indicating differences!
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Look on the bright side, everyone.
When you're dead none of this irrelevant, childish bollocks will matter.
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@vortexau
May I point out that the CPU is not part of the motherboard, nor is firmware part of the PCB reference?
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KennyR: Stop being so damn childish...
Get a life! You do nothing but troll...
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Tomas wrote:
Get a life! You do nothing but troll...
Not picking on you in particular mate, but just look at that sentence. It sums up this entire stupid thread.
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When you're dead none of this irrelevant, childish bollocks will matter.
Do you know something we don't?
/me toddles off to back-garden nuclear bunker and preps the ADSL connection :-)
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enough with the Eva bashing.
I'm not endorsing any particular comments of hers, and I'm aware they can be controversial at times. but in all the years I've been here, I've always enjoyed Eva's contributions to this community.
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mikeymike wrote:
Do you know something we don't?
(http://strangerest.mpunk3.org/die.gif)
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Didn't you watch Spider-man? For shame!
Peter Parker - "Mr. Jameson, you can't say that.. that's slander."
Jameson - "No it isn't, and I resent that! Slander is spoken, in print it's libel."
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I bet if I put all of you together in a room the keyboard warrior attitudes would go away. Leave the bickering for the companies, not the people. Geez, get over it. I personally dont give a crap what is vaporware, who says what..is it REALLY that important?
Now go and give each other high-5's before I test this beta mass-ban button. LOL
:-P :-P
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But I want Half-Life 2 now....
A mass ban button, hmm. I wonder if we can work that one into the upgrade. Or a flame blocker, works sort of like a spam blocker.
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what would be good is to make flames turn into compliments.. have it look for keywords and replace them with compliments... LOL
:-o
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enough with the Eva bashing.
I'm not endorsing any particular comments of hers, and I'm aware they can be controversial at times. but in all the years I've been here, I've always enjoyed Eva's contributions to this community.
I'm quite amazed (and glad) that Eva has done some contribution for this community more then all the spinning, trolling and shouting at every's chance possible on AOS4. But at least this shows that she too can be a normal person if she really wants to...
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And now the feedback, well one, has been posted.
Rants & Raves (http://www.wired.com/news/rants/0,2350,61978,00.html)
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Argo wrote:
And now the feedback, well one, has been posted.
Rants & Raves (http://www.wired.com/news/rants/0,2350,61978,00.html)
"[Genesi] are known to spread FUD all over the place and I'd expect a serious news site would probably claim to be to be a bit more precious about such things."
Yay. Sense prevails. Or something... :P
SIgh. Well, I guess the "community" is lucky that Wired didn't pick an even more embarrassing "rant & rave" than that, or indeed an even more acerbic comment than Nate's to the Vaporware Award nominations. I'm sure there was no shortage of either kind.
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It's the "GENSEI SI LAME!!!!1 it is so funny",
Provide a link please.
"Petition to get Doom3 ported to OS5, that would be GREAT!!!!!"
Provide a link please.
That and the "DPaint petition" comment sounds like what amigaworld.ORG used to be like and not amigaworld.NET.
As someone who clearly reads Amigaworld.net ( but not so your views are at all accurate ) you can direct your complaints and comments to davep@amigaworld.net. I assure you that I will answer and discuss issues raised fairly with you, but in return I expect substance to what you correspond.
If it bothers you as much as you claim, the effort of sending an email ( and I encourage all those that have a complaint to do so also ) and waiting for a response might yeild the results you desire far more than backbiting on other websites...
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I watched Red Dward - Justice last night and I think of this:
KRYTEN: It's a question of differentiating between guilt and culpability,
sir. What the mind-probe detected was your own sense of guilt about
the accident. In a way, you tried and convicted yourself. I simply
have to establish you're a neurotic, under-achieving emotional retard
whose ambition far outstrips his miniscule abilities and who
consequently blames himself for an accident for which he could not
possibly have been responsible.
RIMMER: You're going to try to prove that I was innocent of negligence on
the grounds that I'm a half-witted incompetent?
CAT: Man, there ain't a jury in the land that won't buy a plea like that.
KRYTEN: Not a half-wit, exactly -- more a buffoon.
RIMMER: (Thinks about it. He's quite impressed.) Right, I see. But how
would you even begin to build such a case? Where would you conjure up
the evidence?
KRYTEN: Sir, providing I can have completely free access to your personal
data files, I think I can come up with the outline of a winning case by
lunchtime.
Change Rimmer for Nate and you see the funny solution to this problem. Not that Nate is in anyway like Rimmer :-)
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[From the Rant] Claiming AmigaOS4.0 vaporware is easy, but I can assure you it exists ("Vaporware: Nuke 'Em if Ya Got 'Em," Jan. 20, 2004). I belong to the development crew and it's running fine on both a classic Amiga 4000/PPC and a new AmigaOne here.
Another nominee for the "I haven't read the definiton" award.
[From Wired] As in previous years, software in a never-ending, pre-release, beta-testing stage is considered vaporware, even if it's widely available. It hasn't shipped until it's shrink-wrapped.
Likewise hardware. Prototypes may exist in some company's lab, but it's vaporware until it hits store shelves.
And remember, if it shipped -- even if it stank -- it's not vaporware.
[From the rant] Neither Amiga nor Hyperion Software (who is in fact developing AmigaOS4) is claiming any release dates, by the way. There were some estimates ages ago, but since then all they say is "when it's done."
Irrevelant.
And the best:
They are known to spread FUD all over the place and I'd expect a serious news site would probably claim to be to be a bit more precious about such things.
But it won't mean automatically that Nate's comment is FUD.