Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Llamaman on August 01, 2012, 12:16:10 AM
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:rant: alert!
Well I must say how disappointed I have been with my Amiga 1200.
I bought it off Ebay just before Christmas 2011 and it came with a 4GB CF Hard Drive fitted. This is my last Amiga computer EVER!
I have never used such a frustrating OS before and I fail to see why so many owners rave about them.
Admittedly I have been 'spoiled' with easy-peasy PC's for the last 15 years....but that may explain my gripes with the Amiga.
I cannot for the life of me understand why so many of the fanboys seem to think it's a great idea to make it such hard work to do such a simple thing like install a new desktop replacement, such as ClassicWB, etc. Why not make a straight forward download (or even a zip download) of it, that can be installed from floppy/CF card direct to an Amiga, without having to use WinUAE? Not all PC's can run WinUAE and what about if you have used a modern mobile phone to download ClassicWB?
Why the need for .adf/hdf files? Most modern PC's have large enough storage space on them, that they don't need compressed files anymore.
I, like many people, don't or can't be bothered with faffing about with emulators, for whatever reason -- and it's not a crime not to want to use one. If I want to download a certain program on my PC, it comes with an EXE file that I just click and install.....Simples!!
On the Amiga?......Oh yes, install WinUAE, find a copy of some ROM's, either legally, or not. Then use some archaic looking decompression software to extract the program with. What's wrong with not having to use an emulator?! Why not not just allow a direct install to real hardware?
Amiga fanboys remind me so much of Linux fanboys........they seem to think that there chosen OS is the most superior in the universe and have never considered moving with the times and making life easy for themselves. And no, I'm not preaching that they should ditch their Amiga's for PC's. Just that they acknowledge the Amiga as being old hat and deservedly so and that if they want to keep the platform alive for the next generation who fancies a bit of retro action, then at least make life simple for them when it comes to installing stuff.
I have tried installing AmigaSYS, ClassicWB (various versions), and MagicWB on mine and only the latter worked satisfactory enough to use. The rest of them had such arse about face install routines, that I gave up on them in the end.
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Calm down..
Lets see what we've got.. Complaints about your A1200.. OK..
I cannot for the life of me understand why so many of the fanboys seem to think it's a great idea to make it such hard work to do such a simple thing like install a new desktop replacement, such as ClassicWB, etc. Why not make a straight forward download (or even a zip download) of it, that can be installed from floppy/CF card direct to an Amiga, without having to use WinUAE? Not all PC's can run WinUAE and what about if you have used a modern mobile phone to download ClassicWB?
Ah yes, like the way we just unzip Windows, Linux or MacOS to install them.. er..
Or you could do this:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=883
Moving on..
Why the need for .adf/hdf files? Most modern PC's have large enough storage space on them, that they don't need compressed files anymore.
Hmm this isn't a1200 specific, but...
ADFs and HDF files aren't really compressed.
They are concatenated into a single file.
You can compress them further to see that they aren't really compressed..
You can actually use WinUAE with a standard directory of files, but you lose some Amiga filesystem attributes.. A good way to handle that is with a HDF file (redundant?) that handles that and keeps the PC dir structure clean...
I, like many people, don't or can't be bothered with faffing about with emulators, for whatever reason -- and it's not a crime not to want to use one. If I want to download a certain program on my PC, it comes with an EXE file that I just click and install.....Simples!!
Hmmm.. Did you forget you were complaining about your A1200? This is another WinUAE complaint..
Have you seen/heard of AmigaForever!
I think it's a product right up your alley!!!!
It's all pointy/clicky and draggy/droppy..
On the Amiga?......Oh yes, install WinUAE, find a copy of some ROM's, either legally, or not. Then use some archaic looking decompression software to extract the program with. What's wrong with not having to use an emulator?! Why not not just allow a direct install to real hardware?
I'm not sure what you've been doing..
I use WHDload packs (KGWHD) (which are these weird archaic compression format called ZIP files) and use them on my A1200, which is real hardware..
Amiga fanboys remind me so much of Linux fanboys........they seem to think that there chosen OS is the most superior in the universe and have never considered moving with the times and making life easy for themselves. And no, I'm not preaching that they should ditch their Amiga's for PC's. Just that they acknowledge the Amiga as being old hat and deservedly so and that if they want to keep the platform alive for the next generation who fancies a bit of retro action, then at least make life simple for them when it comes to installing stuff.
All of them?? Wow..
As long as we're not generalizing or anything...
I have tried installing AmigaSYS, ClassicWB (various versions), and MagicWB on mine and only the latter worked satisfactory enough to use. The rest of them had such arse about face install routines, that I gave up on them in the end.
Again, AmigaForever makes this REALLY EASY!!! You should check into it...
Some people aren't cut out for the real hardware...
That's OK...
You have options..
desiv
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Comparing apples and oranges, really. Comparing a system from the 90's to a modern commodity PC isn't a fair comparison by any stretch.
Old hardware will always give you hassles, and expecting an old OS to work in a way similar to Windows is crazy. Most people like the Amiga OS variants because they are different, and it's got nothing to do with keeping up with the times. I use my Amiga's for fun, as a hobby. I'm not delusional enough to think it they even remotely do everything I ask my Windows machines to do.
For those that don't enjoy the legacy machines, there's plenty of options with OS4, MOS and AROS.
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I think many actually enjoy the build/customization process. Amiga OS isn't too user friendly by default, but it's also ancient.
I recently put a 1200 together mainly for WHDLoad, and didn't have too much trouble getting things setup.
1. Made a boot disk with HDInstTool, PFS3, and FAT95/CFD
2. Used said disk to format and partition hard disk, reboot
3. Coped contents of 3.1 "Workbench" disk to bootable partition, installed files for CF use, reboot
4. Had already built and tweaked 3.1 install done on the A4000 (could sub UAE here), transferred WB install and games via PCMCIA card, reboot and enjoy
Not that my Amigas haven't caused endless headaches in other areas... :P
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Was this your first Amiga?
I have to agree with you though, to strangers of Workbench it's all a bit complicated. There's definite room for improvement on the "accessibility" front regarding new potential users however. I think general Amiga users like to tinker with the Workbench though and most of the enjoyment comes with the tinkering and building up your own "Workbench" (no easy task).
These packs are supposed to be easy, but I admit not using them on real Amiga's - I use them under WinUAE emulation only. My Workbench is of my own creation and that's how I like it, but it does take an age to build a usable Workbench (a million aminet downloads). I enjoyed it though.
OS3.9 should be a fairly straight forward install (from CD bear in mind), but of course you would need a CD drive hooking up to your 1200 first. But by the way I read your post, I'm sure you'll be putting that 1200 back on Ebay. One positive is that it will sell, and I'm sure for the same price you bought it at.
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:rant: alert!
I have tried installing AmigaSYS, ClassicWB (various versions), and MagicWB on mine and only the latter worked satisfactory enough to use. The rest of them had such arse about face install routines, that I gave up on them in the end.
first off AmigaSYS (and AmiKit) are not for real Amigas....
and dont even think about it unless you have a 060 and a GFX card... and even then its probably not going to run well.
ClassicWB is for classics (hence the name) such as your 1200, which is why it worked for you...
When I configured my 1200 the last few times I got everything working under WinUAE (AmigaForever) how I wanted.
I had partitioned and formatted my disk on the real 1200. I put it into the pc with an IDE USB adapter, mounted the HD under WinUAE and just issued the command "copy sys: newsys: all"
How could that be any simpler? I mean you are dealing with 20 year old hardware (probably pairing it with modern hardware like CF cards) running an OS with thousands of crazy hacks and patches. Lets not even get into all of the quality control problems Commodore had on the machines when they were NEW...
I guess one mechanic would say that a 1960s auto is simpler than a modern vehicle because if breaks its simple to diagnose because overall its not a very complex system.
Another might say that a modern auto is simpler because if it breaks the computer tells you what is wrong and you don't need to be constantly be adjusting the points and condenser, timing, carburator, etc. for optimal operation.
:rant: alert!
Amiga fanboys remind me so much of Linux fanboys........they seem to think that there chosen OS is the most superior in the universe and have never considered moving with the times and making life easy for themselves. And no, I'm not preaching that they should ditch their Amiga's for PC's. Just that they acknowledge the Amiga as being old hat and deservedly so and that if they want to keep the platform alive for the next generation who fancies a bit of retro action, then at least make life simple for them when it comes to installing stuff.
Where did you happen to find someone that thinks AmigaOS is still the most superior OS? I'm sure you'll find many people who will say that it WAS better than DOS or MAC or Atari - back in the day...
Of the few still using AmigaOS, I would be surprised if you actually found ONE that would claim that it is a viable option for modern day computing, let alone better than any contemporary OS.
All I can say is that no Amiga I have ever own has become corrupted by not shutting down properly -> leading to a complete reinstall of the OS.
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:rant: alert!
Well I must say how disappointed I have been with my Amiga 1200.
I bought it off Ebay just before Christmas 2011 and it came with a 4GB CF Hard Drive fitted. This is my last Amiga computer EVER!
I have never used such a frustrating OS before and I fail to see why so many owners rave about them.
Admittedly I have been 'spoiled' with easy-peasy PC's for the last 15 years....but that may explain my gripes with the Amiga.
Sorry you've been having trouble. Let me see if I can explain some of the weird logic that we long-time users sometimes forget.
I cannot for the life of me understand why so many of the fanboys seem to think it's a great idea to make it such hard work to do such a simple thing like install a new desktop replacement, such as ClassicWB, etc. Why not make a straight forward download (or even a zip download) of it, that can be installed from floppy/CF card direct to an Amiga, without having to use WinUAE? Not all PC's can run WinUAE and what about if you have used a modern mobile phone to download ClassicWB?
Now, now, no need to use the f-word :)
The reason WinUAE (or any UAE - WinUAE just happens to be the easiest and most fully-featured) is used so much is because most new users don't have the ability to download things directly to their Amiga. You need a network card, networking stack, browser, etc. The Amiga is old enough that these things aren't a given. For new users, it's often easier to prep the Amiga environment under UAE and then plug the CF card or hard drive back into the Amiga.
Why the need for .adf/hdf files? Most modern PC's have large enough storage space on them, that they don't need compressed files anymore.
These are analogous to ROM images for other emulated platforms. They contain fixed images of data. Emulating a full hard drive allows you to use the Amiga's filesystem bits. These often get lost when transferring files from FAT32 to NTFS to HFS+ to the Amiga, and problems with the filesystem bits can cause problems with many programs.
ADFs came about because PC floppy drives can't read Amiga-formatted disks, so the solution was to create a disk image to use in an emulated floppy drive. Good decompression programs (7zip, or The Unarchiver on Mac) can extract files from ADFs, but you'll lose the filesystem bits this way.
If you install diskimage.device (http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/diskimage) on your Amiga, you can handle these virtual floppies just like real disks (it can be tough to configure, though). You can also use ADFBlitzer (http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/adfblitzer) to dump those images back to real floppies.
I, like many people, don't or can't be bothered with faffing about with emulators, for whatever reason -- and it's not a crime not to want to use one. If I want to download a certain program on my PC, it comes with an EXE file that I just click and install.....Simples!!
On the Amiga?......Oh yes, install WinUAE, find a copy of some ROM's, either legally, or not. Then use some archaic looking decompression software to extract the program with. What's wrong with not having to use an emulator?! Why not not just allow a direct install to real hardware?
If you could download directly to real hardware, that's exactly what you would do. Well, after extracting the .lha archive - analogous to extracting a .zip. Self-extracting archives never really caught on on the Amiga, but there are some. Also bear in mind that most of these "distros" you've been trying were developed with emulation users in mind, in the days before UAE had networking support, to give them quick access to heaps of programs. It used to be a lot harder to get Amiga software onto an emulation environment. Now the inverse is true.
Make sure you have Directory Opus (http://aminet.net/package/biz/dopus/DOpus416JRbin) on your machine. It's a 2-pane file manager. Then it's just a simple matter of opening the directory of your archive in one window, opening the extraction destination in the other, clicking once on the archive, and then clicking in the destination window. Boom. Archive extracted. (But make sure the program LhA (http://aminet.net/package/util/arc/lha_68k) is in the directory SYS:C first).
Amiga fanboys remind me so much of Linux fanboys........they seem to think that there chosen OS is the most superior in the universe and have never considered moving with the times and making life easy for themselves. And no, I'm not preaching that they should ditch their Amiga's for PC's. Just that they acknowledge the Amiga as being old hat and deservedly so and that if they want to keep the platform alive for the next generation who fancies a bit of retro action, then at least make life simple for them when it comes to installing stuff.
Hey, watch it. We're not as delusional a bunch as you might think. Ten years ago, maybe, but most of us now have a healthy recognition of what the Amiga is and isn't. I grew up with it, so to me it always will be "what a computer should be", but that's not a widely held view and I recognize that.
I have tried installing AmigaSYS, ClassicWB (various versions), and MagicWB on mine and only the latter worked satisfactory enough to use. The rest of them had such arse about face install routines, that I gave up on them in the end.
MagicWB was created during the Amiga's commercial lifespan and is intended for use on real hardware. But it's really just an icon pack - not much depth to it. It's great for getting a sharp look out of a machine with limited resources, though.
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Remember, Amiga isn't meant to take over the world. It is for us who grew up on them and appreciate having one. If you enjoy retro/classic computing, then by all means give it a try. Sorry it frustrated you. Sell the Amiga to someone else. :)
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I got ClassicWB installed on almost all of my Amigas (see my signature), by following instructions I was able to install it w/o a hitch.
You have A1200, that's the easiest one of all to install anything using PCMCIA-CF adapters.
You did not say what do you want to do with your Amiga, is it games, music, graphics?
Actually, you don't need to install any of the WB packs to get stuff working, just install programs you need and be done with it. The time will come when you are more comfortable with the OS and start to customize it.
Good luck.
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Let's put this into a little context. We're talking about a computer OS from 1992 (3.0)
Care to show me how to completely replace the shell of windows 3.1 ? You know, back from when you had to keep track of 3 different types of memory just to make sure pacman would run.
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"If you could download directly to real hardware,"
I read this OP as this! He wants to download on his pc...files for his amiga AND he really doesn't understand the hardware(floppy) limits.
I think, It's a issue all new and old amiga users.
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Exactly my thought. He downloads adf images (games, perhaps?) and tries to unpack them somehow on his real Amiga. Possible, ofcourse, but not very convenient. I guess he is much better off with a registered WHDload and a bit of Googl'ing around.. Or indeed even Amiga Forever.
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I see you're in Nottingham, You could stop into the Lincs Amiga Group sometime? I'm sure we can help with the problems you're having with your 1200 :-)
Our next meetings in Saturday September 1st.
Robert.
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Can I just add one to the "What's all this about emulators?!" vote?
Why are you trying to use WinUAE to do anything? You don't need to, at least not if you're using the Amiga properly.
Either way it's not fair to blame the Amiga 1200 and AmigaOS for perceived shortcomings in WinUAE.
It seems to me you have some pretty fundamental misunderstandings about what the Amiga can do, at least that's what all this talk of WinUAE suggests. There's no need to go anywhere near WinUAE at all.
Best advice is to take a deep breath, and start again. Forget all this WinUAE nonsense, and ask the folk here who are mostly kindly and helpful, what it is exactly you're trying to do. Then we can help you to enjoy the Amiga - without WinUAE or any other emulators.
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:rant: alert!
You are absolutely right. I feel for you and volunteer to take the burden of Amiga off of you. I will happily pay the postage and package costs.
Cheers !
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Well I must say how disappointed I have been with my Amiga 1200.
I'll give you $50AUD for it and it'll never disappoint you again! :)
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:rant: alert!
Go play with your ST, lamer!
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Cor blimey everyone calm down, the guy is new and frustrated as things aren't working.
we've all been there haven't we? :-)
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:rant: alert!
Well I must say how disappointed I have been with my Amiga 1200.
I bought it off Ebay just before Christmas 2011 and it came with a 4GB CF Hard Drive fitted. This is my last Amiga computer EVER!
I have never used such a frustrating OS before and I fail to see why so many owners rave about them.
Admittedly I have been 'spoiled' with easy-peasy PC's for the last 15 years....but that may explain my gripes with the Amiga.
I cannot for the life of me understand why so many of the fanboys seem to think it's a great idea to make it such hard work to do such a simple thing like install a new desktop replacement, such as ClassicWB, etc. Why not make a straight forward download (or even a zip download) of it, that can be installed from floppy/CF card direct to an Amiga, without having to use WinUAE? Not all PC's can run WinUAE and what about if you have used a modern mobile phone to download ClassicWB?
Why the need for .adf/hdf files? Most modern PC's have large enough storage space on them, that they don't need compressed files anymore.
I, like many people, don't or can't be bothered with faffing about with emulators, for whatever reason -- and it's not a crime not to want to use one. If I want to download a certain program on my PC, it comes with an EXE file that I just click and install.....Simples!!
On the Amiga?......Oh yes, install WinUAE, find a copy of some ROM's, either legally, or not. Then use some archaic looking decompression software to extract the program with. What's wrong with not having to use an emulator?! Why not not just allow a direct install to real hardware?
Amiga fanboys remind me so much of Linux fanboys........they seem to think that there chosen OS is the most superior in the universe and have never considered moving with the times and making life easy for themselves. And no, I'm not preaching that they should ditch their Amiga's for PC's. Just that they acknowledge the Amiga as being old hat and deservedly so and that if they want to keep the platform alive for the next generation who fancies a bit of retro action, then at least make life simple for them when it comes to installing stuff.
I have tried installing AmigaSYS, ClassicWB (various versions), and MagicWB on mine and only the latter worked satisfactory enough to use. The rest of them had such arse about face install routines, that I gave up on them in the end.
Only hardcore veterans use real Amiga these days. The OS is too outdated for casual user and I am not surprised you are frustrated. I would be if I had to use Amiga 1200 as a desktop again. For gaming experience it is better have vanilla Amiga 1200 or Amiga 500 and leave desktops for those few hardcore users.
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1992 OS Choices: Mac System 7, Windows 3.1 on DOS or maybe OS2. Or you could have Amiga WB3.1. As mentioned previously you can't compare a 20YO computer and OS with today's stuff.
As for fan boys, I'm thinking you have unrealistic expectations. I don't think N E one on this site thinks an Amiga can compete with modern kit. Keeping the memory alive, reliving the classics, that's what it's about for me.
Look at all the people who have tried to help you in this thread....That's what amiga is about!
Go to the windows technet forums and you'll find sanctioned contributors offering mind numbingly stupid workarounds in the guise of assistance: "Just disable power saving if your system wont come out of power save" Ahh der !
Sorry I'm ranting now, time for sleep.
Stick to the ZX81, you only have to push one key to get a command up!
Here's a ZX81 program I wrote for you to try out:
10 N$=","
20 PRINT "HELLO ";N$;" IM THE ZX81 WHO ARE YOU?"
30 INPUT N$
40 IF N$="LLAMAMAN" GOTO 60
50 GOTO 20
60 PRINT "HMM, I HOPE YOU DONT EXPECT TOO MUCH FROM ME NOW "; N$
70 GOTO 10
Yawn......
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Hi Llamaman, I understand your frustration. Unfortunately AmigaSYS and ClassicWB were made by WinUAE users for WinUAE users. They require WinUAE to install them and there is no other choice. I found this pretty annoying when I wanted to try them because I don't even use Windows. I think a Workbench distribution should come as a LHA file which you can copy to a SD/CF card to put in a PCMCIA adapter and extract directly to your Amiga's partition, then boot from it.
A few online friends and I have been working on a new Workbench distribution which caters to real Amiga users, and has been built from scratch on real Amigas only. We will distribute it the way I described, as a single file which is unpacked directly to the Amiga. Once it's installed and running, you will be able to easily add new software by loading the package manager, which lists plenty of programs, utilities and games which are available, you simply select the ones you want and click and install button, the package manager takes care of downloading and installing the files for you.
I guess it might be too late now since you may not keep your Amiga, and it could be a while before our distribution is ready to release but I hope you'll try it if you still have your A1200 when we bring it out, I think you would find it easier to try.
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@Cammy
So you use Amigas 100% of the time? I have to commend you, that takes some patience. The closest to a real Amiga I have nowadays is my PowerMac G4, currently on my shelf.
@OP
I completely understand, I had both a 3000 and an A1200 and I was expecting much more. But it was fun while I had them, I may pick one up again I just need TIME and MONEY. Amiga, however, was the driving force that eventually drove me to Macs, as I bought PPC macs to wait for the ports to MorphOS. I found Macs to be infinitely better than windows.
But I know you can install AmigaSYS and Amikit on Amithlon, not that I ever endeavored to try, but people have succeeded.
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Only hardcore veterans use real Amiga these days. The OS is too outdated for casual user and I am not surprised you are frustrated. I would be if I had to use Amiga 1200 as a desktop again. For gaming experience it is better have vanilla Amiga 1200 or Amiga 500 and leave desktops for those few hardcore users.
I quite disagree; the Amiga is easily the simplest computer of its era to get up and running, and hardly any more trouble than modern OSes to install. The only real issues I had were getting large files onto the system (which I could've solved by springing for a CF->PCMCIA adapter, and eventually did) and getting networking setup (which was mostly trouble because I breezed through the settings and missed some important stuff.)
That said, I do understand the OP's frustration at having to use such a roundabout method to do the initial install - even for UAE users, you'd have to think that having a functioning disk image that could just be written to a hard drive or CF card would be handy. But I hope it doesn't deter him; ClassicWB really is amazingly nice once it's on there, and there's plenty of people here who can help him through the rough spots.
A few online friends and I have been working on a new Workbench distribution which caters to real Amiga users, and has been built from scratch on real Amigas only. We will distribute it the way I described, as a single file which is unpacked directly to the Amiga. Once it's installed and running, you will be able to easily add new software by loading the package manager, which lists plenty of programs, utilities and games which are available, you simply select the ones you want and click and install button, the package manager takes care of downloading and installing the files for you.
Ooh, nifty. Looking forward to this!
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The problem is that the classic WB packs are needlessly complex to get running. I had to set up winUAE in friggen WINE to make it work.
In the end though, it was far easier than hunting down patches and tweaks by hand, and I'd have grown old before getting SCALOS figured out and configured.
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The problem is that the classic WB packs are needlessly complex to get running. I had to set up winUAE in friggen WINE to make it work.
In the end though, it was far easier than hunting down patches and tweaks by hand, and I'd have grown old before getting SCALOS figured out and configured.
The ClassicWB setup is simply because they're avoiding including any files that might get them into trouble with Amiga.inc.
I agree that it is a pain in the backside at first to get ClassicWB to work, but once you have done it once or twice using WinUAE and set up a profile to re-use then it is a breeze.
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The ClassicWB setup is simply because they're avoiding including any files that might get them into trouble with Amiga.inc.
You should just be able to copy the original Workbench disks to a partition, and then copy ClassicWB over it. Don't see why this can't work.
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Look at his other posts, he already sold his setup.
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I don't understand, are you complaining about a real A1200 or are you complaining about WinUAE?
If you have an A1200, what do you need WinUAE for?
If you are using WinUAE, what do you need the A1200 for?
ADF files are rips of floppies. WinUAE doesn't have an Amiga floppy drive, so you connect these ripped ADF files instead to pretend that you do have a floppy drive. ADF files contain floppy disk data.
HDF files are the hard drive equivalent of ADF, HDF files giev you a virtual hard drive. Much like VirtualBox uses VDI files that pretend to be hard drives or VMWare uses VMDK files that pretend to be hard drives.
If you have an A1200, then you have an Amiga floppy drive. What do you need ADF files for?
If you have a real 4GB CF card connected to your real IDE bus acting as a real hard drive in your A1200, what do you need an HDF file for?
I'm really sorry, but it sounds like you're jumping back and forth between two very different things, and I really don't understand the connection between them nor the reason for both.
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The problem is knowledge, to be a successful Amiga user you need some basic knowledge about Amiga itself... catch22 situation.
Without this knowledge you will be frustrated because you will stumble upon problems you do not have the knowledge of the system to use correctly/install correctly. Or make assumptions about Amiga based on other OS's.
Amiga is a unique OS, so appreciate its differences more than lament them!
Simply... do not whine or whinge to REAL Amiga users if you do not have the knowledge to use the hardware you have to its potential, and please do not have a public whine on an Amiga forums and expect too much sympathy from us :)
Az
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Look at his other posts, he already sold his setup.
Good!
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Come on, guys, the poor man is frustrated. Yeah, his tone was a bit brusque, but it doesn't do any good to the community to scare away new users. We could have walked him through this, I think.
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@ Llamaman
sorry for your learning curve frustration but we've all been there before at one point. There's been some good advice for you in this thread and I hope you tackle the issues one step at a time. Funny as I remember having the same, if not worse, frustarting time with Windows 3.1 on my first PC after coming from my WB environment! arghh where's my Ram Disk :crazy:
Go play with your ST, lamer!
c'mon tone let's not start the Amiga vs Atari wars again:lol:
oops should have read tyhe whole thread beofre posting, guess we're too late. Ah well at least the 1200 goes to an Amiga user who will appreciate it.
Borut wrote:
Look at his other posts, he already sold his setup.
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I quite disagree; the Amiga is easily the simplest computer of its era to get up and running, and hardly any more trouble than modern OSes to install. The only real issues I had were getting large files onto the system (which I could've solved by springing for a CF->PCMCIA adapter, and eventually did) and getting networking setup (which was mostly trouble because I breezed through the settings and missed some important stuff.)
Workbench 3.0/3.1 has no TCP/IP stack, browser, FTP client or anything that even remotely supports networking.
Workbench 3.9 added AWeb and TCP/IP stack but you need a CD-ROM drive to install it. Standard Amiga 1200 case has no room nor connectors for the drive.
To use PCMCIA network card you must download CNET driver from Aminet which you must somehow move to your Amiga. Luckily Amiga can read PC formatted disks but you are limited to 720kB DD disks. Not every user know how to use HD disk as DD or have friends with an old PC.
It is tricky. The hardware is so incompatible with current standards. Hardcore Amigans have Catweasels, parnets, USB extensions and what not... but beginners are struggling with this stuff.
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But learning all this is half the fun ... I was a total Amiga n00b 2 months ago but now im almost a competent user thanks to lots of experimentation and research.
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Workbench 3.0/3.1 has no TCP/IP stack, browser, FTP client or anything that even remotely supports networking.
Workbench 3.9 added AWeb and TCP/IP stack but you need a CD-ROM drive to install it. Standard Amiga 1200 case has no room nor connectors for the drive.
To use PCMCIA network card you must download CNET driver from Aminet which you must somehow move to your Amiga. Luckily Amiga can read PC formatted disks but you are limited to 720kB DD disks. Not every user know how to use HD disk as DD or have friends with an old PC.
It is tricky. The hardware is so incompatible with current standards. Hardcore Amigans have Catweasels, parnets, USB extensions and what not... but beginners are struggling with this stuff.
Seems that people forget that getting files to your amiga to get started is easier then you think, lets say you got an A1200 with 2,5" HDD and no means to use the drive on your windows/linux machine or the know how to do it and you do not have an CF->PCMCIA adapter and your A1200 is stock, how do you do?
Easy, null-modem serial cable. Easy as pie and have been used for ages, build or buy a cable for scraps, plug in to a PC then your Amiga, and nowdays it's as easy as download and install the free version of Amiga explorer. Bam easy to use and you can even pick any ADF you got on your PC drag/drop and write to disk on Amiga (provided it got enough memory but that is no issue with the 1200 with DD floppies).
I have used a null-modem cable to copy over files even to my old Amiga 500 (with 512KB trapdoor expansion), that was how I made new WB disks when problem arised and I had no HDD on the Amiga.
This is a easy way people tend to forget and requires just a cheep cable and it's not even hard to build yourself and there is no problem to find the pinouts to make one.
Sure not the fastest way but it works. And if I do not remember wrong it's quite well explained on Amigaforever?
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The problem he had was that he jumped in right at the deep end without knowing what he was doing. From the start, he was faffing around with transfering HDF files and ADF files without even knowing what those files were. His big mistake was that he was expecting somehow WinUAE on a modern PC and an Amiga 1200 from 1992 to work identically, and integrate seamlessly.
If he'd started from the beginning with an A1200HD and some Workbench 3.1 disks, he'd probably have enjoyed the A1200 like the rest of us had...
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Easy, null-modem serial cable. Easy as pie and have been used for ages, build or buy a cable for scraps, plug in to a PC then your Amiga, and nowdays it's as easy as download and install the free version of Amiga explorer.
How do you get Amiga Explorer to your Amiga? And of course serial and parallel ports have been obsolete around 5 years now. Luckily there are USB serial adapters, though.
This is a easy way people tend to forget and requires just a cheep cable and it's not even hard to build yourself and there is no problem to find the pinouts to make one.
Sure not the fastest way but it works. And if I do not remember wrong it's quite well explained on Amigaforever?
And again you have to buy Amiga Forever from a distant online shop... it is tricky if you have to order various pieces to get your Amiga to usable state.
Ill never write MOS instead of MorphOS since MOS for me is Acorn MOS.
I (almost) never write MOS either :)
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Back to the ZX81. I Hope the program works.......
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Modern operating systems hide all the complexity from you, doing it all for you. Amiga OS does very little for you forcing you to learn and understand concepts that most take for granted. That's the fun, that's the challenge. If you just want to buy a computer and have it just work, stick with Macs. If you want to dig deep and understand the concepts and be willing to fail a few times in order to succeed the welcome to AmigaOS.
I am always surprised when these bright young kids come into my office and they don't have a clue why things work the way they do.
But learning all this is half the fun ... I was a total Amiga n00b 2 months ago but now im almost a competent user thanks to lots of experimentation and research.
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How do you get Amiga Explorer to your Amiga?
Worked like a charm last time i tried, here is a quote from AF about it:
"Once installed on the Windows side, Amiga Explorer can self-install to the Amiga over the serial cable without requiring any additional software, but the Amiga must be able to boot first (e.g. with a Workbench disk, at least version 1.2)"
And of course serial and parallel ports have been obsolete around 5 years now. Luckily there are USB serial adapters, though.
I still have parallel ports on plenty of my computers, beside my most recent builds :O
If you don't have you might know someone that has a PC with one, or you can head to your nearest electronics recycle facility and pick up an pentium 2, pentium 3 or even a pentium 4 socket 478 non HT machine since people toss em :O (the socket 478 P4s I understand since P3 kicks it's ass ;) )
And again you have to buy Amiga Forever from a distant online shop... it is tricky if you have to order various pieces to get your Amiga to usable state.
But there is a free version of Amiga Explorer at http://www.amigaforever.com/ae/ for both x86 and x86-64 Windows.
I (almost) never write MOS either :)
Thanks, that I like ;)
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Come on, guys, the poor man is frustrated.
I think he is trolling. If not, I highly recommend him reading a manual. Any manual for that matter. Especially those that say "Copyright 1986 - 1992 Commodore Business Machines".
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install workbench 3.5 ..only version upgrade i use 3.1 to 3.5 ..new icons is part of it
then install directory opus ..****s all over most directory stuff windows has ..then install whdownload an the games u like ..forget magic workbench (ill get hate mail for that ) its pretty but new icons is better ..
my machine is a1200 030/50 fpu/mmu ..2 meg chip 90 something meg fast ..multiple 4gig drives ext cdwriter ..never gave me a problem with any whdownload games for retro play...with my indidvision the resolution on a vga monitor is great ..ive invested a bit time an cash to make it how i want it ...my pc is no slouch but its not nearly as much fun ...the amiga is not a pc ....its better ..