Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: AmmoJammo on July 21, 2012, 02:21:12 AM
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I have the TomThul 8meg fast ram between the motherboard and accelerator.
Workbench adds and recognises the ram.
Is it normal for the Sysinfo to be this low? Was I expecting too much?!?
:nervous:
Without the 8meg in (meaning only 1 meg total) it scored 580 dhrystones?
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5674/20120721100415.jpg)
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That's totally wrong given a 68030. I'm not sure why? Maybe you found a bug or "assumption" in SysInfo?
There are plenty. Here is what it thinks a 68060 is in an A1200T.
(http://matthewdesantis.homelinux.org:8080/amiga/blizz-ppc/bppc7.jpg)
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also, why are all your libs in chipram instead of 32bit ram?
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That's totally wrong given a 68030. I'm not sure why? Maybe you found a bug or "assumption" in SysInfo?
There are plenty. Here is what it thinks a 68060 is in an A1200T.
(http://matthewdesantis.homelinux.org:8080/amiga/blizz-ppc/bppc7.jpg)
Hi,
Show off!!!
This is what a 68060 looks like!!!
Yes a 68030 running at 24 mhz usually looks like that, you will see some increase in some games, but that is all. You can try some more ram, it might help especially for caching.
smerf
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A 68030 should look like something close to the A3000 benchmark on SysInfo actually, unless I'm missing something.
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The point is that SysInfo is reporting a 68060@50mhz to be over 300mhz... it isn't accurate at all and it's hard to resolve someone's problem with just sysinfo...
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also, why are all your libs in chipram instead of 32bit ram?
Because, because? Its an a500?
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It is because of CPU bus, when you have the accelerator plugged into your 68000 cpu socket you only have limited data bandwidth/addressing
Even with the 8meg plugged under the accelerator you are still crippled with normal access to the memory bus, really no faster than the normal 68000 cpu.
The pins on the right hand side of the accelerator are for its own 32bit memory bus addon board. Without this board you will be crippled.
Az
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Oh, if you have no mem on the accel (mega midget racer is supposed to support 32 bit mem) and just something in between, then I would assume that that is normal.
Most amigas show little to no improvement without 32bit ram right on the accelerator, even a 68040, 60 etc.
Add to that sysinfo doesn't count correctly either.
Apologies, though, if I'm misunderstanding your situation
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Problem is NO 32bit ram in the system, just normal chip ram/slow ram
A serious handicap for any accelerator, tho you do get to use 32bit libraries compiled for 020/030.... you get no bonus speed :)
Az
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So, ah, i guess ill never find a ram module for this.
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Problem is NO 32bit ram in the system, just normal chip ram/slow ram
Az
And 7.7 meg of fast ram, which is what the tomthul ram is.
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It is accessed as if it was chip/slow ram.. so no speed improvement.. sorry
The limit of 2 or 8 or more megabytes has no relation to the speed it is accessed on the system bus.
basically your lovely 32bit 68030 accelerator is stuck in the system bus access mud :)
Az
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Oh by-the-way you sniped that accelerator away from me on eBay :p
I'm a sort of collector of A500 accelerators, not sure why... it just seems to happen!
Az
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By 1 cent...
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yup.. not sure where you will find the addon board for the mighty midget accelerator, they were rare even when the board was new.
Silly to build it that way because without 32bit ram its very slow. Should have had native 1 or 2meg on the board and extra add-on if needed. Similar to some of the GVP Zorro accelerators.
Az
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it would be a hard find, most were coupled with the accelerator itself, not sure what use one would have for just the expansion board.
I looked in to getting one when I had an A500. They are usually sold w/ the mem attached, perhaps you could purchase another cheap w/the memory if the price were right.
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A couple of people have told you the problem. If the '030 card you are using does not have it's RAM card with it, it is useless! And you're quite right - you will never find a RAM card by its lonesome.
Shame too, the Mega Midget Racer is a really good accelerator IF you have one of its RAM cards.
Next time do more research before you jump.
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Actually, I just saw this on BBoAH:
The card also includes 512K of very fast SRAM which can be configured as system RAM, or be used to cache the Kickstart for increased ROM access. These are four chips located in the top left hand corner of the board.
If you have that and it's enabled, that should be FAST RAM and your Amiga should perform much better.
If you can disable it being used as the Kickstart cache, perhaps that will speed things up?
(If that's the same model...)
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=64
(If it's in the same memory location as tom's 8M, you might not be able to use both at the same time..)
desiv
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If that's true, he should see a larger sysinfo dhrystone number, as inaccurate as that would be...
throwing kickstart into fastram vs having 32bit ram is... well I've never measured such a thing!
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That's why I was wondering if the memory locations might be conflicting with the tomthul RAM chips.
And I think Sysinfo is great for measuring standard Amigas and normal expansions, up to about 68030's.
But beyond that and you start doing things like playing with ROMs into RAM...
I'm not sure Sysinfo can keep up.. ;-)
desiv
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I havent looked in to how sysinfo works, programatically, but i know that beyond 68040/25 it doesn't make much sense. Or beyond what was thought of as "stock" amigas at the time... I'm sure there's someone here that can enlighten us on that one.
AIBB was a competitor benchmarking program at the time when I had a fast amiga, perhaps it is more accurate... I don't know.
Regardless, it's been said many times - an accelerator on the cpu slot w/ no memory isn't much better than no extra cpu at all...
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Regardless, it's been said many times - an accelerator on the cpu slot w/ no memory isn't much better than no extra cpu at all...
Yep, but that accelerator should have memory.
Just 512k, but that's memory and it should help a lot...
I'm wondering if it's not enabled for some reason.
(Setting or conflict)
desiv
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yes, I agree, if there is 512k up for grabs on it, and it can be jumpered or something to be 32bit RAM, you should see a noticeable increase in speed. (however you measure it) Unfortunately, I don't know a whole lot about this accelerator in general, but I'm just speaking about how amiga accelerators behave in general.
I can say that A) a microbotics 030 with no RAM is as slow as a stock A1200/020
I can say that B) an Apollo 040 with no RAM appears to be slightly faster than an A1200/20.
Add some SIMM memory to these boards and the CPU comes to life :)
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Yep, but that accelerator should have memory.
Just 512k, but that's memory and it should help a lot...
I'm wondering if it's not enabled for some reason.
(Setting or conflict)
desiv
its optional, as per this link:
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/megamidget
and doesn't have it either.
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what happens memory-wise when you select 68000 fallback mode?
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its optional, as per this link:
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/megamidget
and doesn't have it either.
That's for the 8m RAM board.
But it should come with 512k, as per the link I posted above.
desiv
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Tablet won't let me edit.
Aha.
So the 512k is optional too, but not a board.
He just might need SRAM chips.
desiv
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what happens memory-wise when you select 68000 fallback mode?
using the hardware switch, it crashes... won't boot, have had the "red screen of death" as well as another error...
That's if it does anything...
(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9784/20120721104216.jpg)
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5505/20120721103955.jpg)
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Yeah, the speed of the MMR w/o 32bit ram is aweful!!! You are actually lucky with Tom's 8mb board. It uses SRAM which is about 5% faster than dram (no refresh cycles/delay). You can put 512kb of SRAM on the MMR and it will be really fast! - should put your sysinfo rating about 10% higher than a stock a3000... I just happen to an extra set of those chips, send me a PM if you are interested.
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@thread
I have one of these with dip socketed ASSY21303A.
A500 not hooked up atm.
Are you looking for SYSinfo results from the mainboard/daughterboard populated?
#6
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I know the kinda benchmark score it'll do with the extra memory, google seems to find that ;)
I'd also seen results that were low, like mine, but the pages weren't in English, I can only assume they were lacking ram :p
http://szergitata.blog.hu/2012/06/24/amiga_500_turbokartyak_7_befejezes_mega-midget_racer
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So, ah, i guess ill never find a ram module for this.
i agree about the 32 bit ram ..i never found a module for mine ..but although i cant quote figures ..when i had mine in my a500 it did seem faster than a standard
a500 ..more like a 1200 ..i was running kickstart 3.1 ..would that make a difference ?? super fat agnes so 2 meg chip as well ..
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i agree about the 32 bit ram ..i never found a module for mine ..but although i cant quote figures ..when i had mine in my a500 it did seem faster than a standard
a500 ..more like a 1200 ..i was running kickstart 3.1 ..would that make a difference ?? super fat agnes so 2 meg chip as well ..
There is 512k of ram on the board, which can be used as ram or for speeding up kickstart. So it might be possible to get close to an a1200. Depending on how the software you run fits into the 68030 cache.
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just been playing with my A500 again...
it seems I can plug the 8 meg tomthul ram between the motherboard and MMR, OR, I can plug it into the MMR 68000 socket, and workbench can still add and access it...
question is, can I plug it into the MMR and overclock the ram to the same speed as the MMR, rather than running it at the same speed as the system bus? ;)
keeping in mind that it just crashes when I attempt to run in 68000 fall back mode anyway... so I'm all for cutting tracks to the 68000 socket on the MMR and running wires! :p
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Kinda off the topic here.. I own a Mega Midget Racer with RAM board and original box. Out of service atm because I broke a few of the pins that stick into the 68000 socket. When it did work I could not get the Racer RAM to appear. Do you have to run a program (patch) in the startup sequence similar to the CSA Derringer 030 to get the RAM to appear? Secondly, does such a program work under newer versions of Kickstart such as 2x or 3x?
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Kinda off the topic here.. I own a Mega Midget Racer with RAM board and original box. Out of service atm because I broke a few of the pins that stick into the 68000 socket. When it did work I could not get the Racer RAM to appear. Do you have to run a program (patch) in the startup sequence similar to the CSA Derringer 030 to get the RAM to appear? Secondly, does such a program work under newer versions of Kickstart such as 2x or 3x?
Yes. First line of startup-sequence:
[path] CSA-MMR >NIL: SRAM DRAM
Yes, it works with Kickstart 2.x.
You can get the manual from links offered earlier in this thread.
#6
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Perhaps some electronic guy could take a look at the bus to discover if a 3rd party board could be produced. Someone with one MegaMidgetRacer and the expansion ram could tell us if the ram appears as a different board or as the same board. Perhaps it's just a "normal" autoconfig board with 32bit access to the ram and NedoPC's design can be modified to work with 32bits and that bus.
But I guess that wouldn't be possible without a lot of experience and knowledge about electronics
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(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3817/20120816182139.jpg)
TomThul 8meg, 512k inbuilt, 512k trapdoor configured as chip, and 512k on the Mega Midget Racer...
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7664/20120816182156.jpg)
Thats more like it! :hammer:
(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8795/20120816182226.jpg)
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33Mhz crystal? ;) I changed the scale, but you get the idea :p
(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/9013/20120816200854.jpg)
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I still have the issue that the MMR won't run in 68000 mode?
whether hardware switching, or software?
do you think the accelerator card may just be faulty?
I get the software error screen, with the flashing red box around the red text?
Another time I just got a blank red screen? "An error was found in the ROM."?
and a flashing power light.
I've tried two different CPUs, 68000 and 68010?
thanks!