Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Holmes on July 14, 2012, 11:16:00 AM
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Just lately people have been exited about aros/aeros/broadway10 coming to pi.
How much potential does this hardware offer.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/ODROID-X-Raspberry-Pi-Quad-Core-Buy-Online,news-39078.html
Also does it offer possibilities for os4 ????
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N.B I think the above review understates how good the pi is, and is so much more than just only educational device for kids !!!
Here's the manufacturer's webpage:-
http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/main.php
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Also does it offer possibilities for os4 ????
No, it's ARM and not PPC.
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The Rpi is fantastic for running simple, light altearnative OSes. RiscOS for example runs great!
People tend to load a heavy, unoptimized Linux distro souch as Debian and say "this hardware is slow: it's crap!". But that's a stupid thing to do with a device as the Rpi, in my opinion.
Just test Risc OS on it and you'll understand what I say.
AROS people can chose to ignore the Pi, but even then it will become a Risc OS platform, with Aemulor providing native 26-bit software execution, i.e great Accorn Archimedes programs, demos and games, and AROS will have lost a GREAT opportunity to expand into new, cheap, fixed hardware.
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Support for floating point hardware on the pi is close to being released.
Let's hope this quells the moaning !!
This will be in the form of rasbian (an optimised version of Debian)
Looking forward to having the pi, when it's sold with a case.
Then aeros, and an Archimedes emulator will be exciting.
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I think it is less powerful than my cellphone and harder to transport. Pass.
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I think it is less powerful than my cellphone and harder to transport. Pass.
You see? This kind of comments (specially funny when they are in a retro-computing frum) are an example of what I said. This "I can't tell a computer from a car" kind of comparission is seen very often.
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I think it could be slower than a phone, but possibly it could be cheaper !!!
And possibly the running cost's might be cheaper too !!!
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Nice find, but:
- no Linux (yet) - you're stuck with Android for the time being
- from the Odroid web site:
"HDMI can support only 720p/1080p resolution with 16:9 wide display. HDMI-DVI converter will not work properly because Exynos4 HDMI is not compatible with VESA standard. So most of old PC monitors can't be used."
(http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G133999328931&tab_idx=3)
This is clearly aimed at developers of Android devices rather than hobbyists. If Raspberry PI is too underpowered for you and you're ready to pay in that price range, I think you'll be better off with the likes of Beagleboard or Pandaboard because of the community, wide selection of OSs and support.
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I think it is less powerful than my cellphone and harder to transport. Pass.
It costs less than your cellphone!
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If you can find one of them:
http://www.genesi-tech.com/products/efika
You can be happy.
Good Linux performance. AEROS ARM was don on it with helo of Genesi.
Performance is much better. Case is good. It comes with Wifi. Two USB ports.
Ethernet too. 8GB SSD (not the fastest but betters than SD-card).
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Dead end toy.
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I bought a Pi. It is small and sexy.
A geek toy, that it is not ready for the educational market.
The hardware is very picky on keyboards and SD cards.
My kids wont touch it, they argue it is slow and boring :(
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My kids wont touch it, they argue it is slow and boring :(
You're doing it wrong.
"20 Lines of Python on the Pi or no dinner for you, kid"
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Kids are dumb. Just stick a neon light somewhere on it and they will love the thing. Extra points if you can get it to flash.
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My kids wont touch it, they argue it is slow and boring :(
And when your kids say the same about texbooks, do they not have to do homework?
Hmmm... :crazy:
desiv
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Dont get me wrong, the Pi is an excellent geek toy, but unless it gets a good customized educational geared distro, it destined to loose traction in the eductaional market due to the heavy competition involved in that area.
My kids prefer their pc and its software, because it runs without hiccups or delays and it provides an overall much better experience out of the box.
Maybe if as suggested, I put a couple of neon lights in it, and make them starve a little... ;)
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Just lately people have been exited about aros/aeros/broadway10 coming to pi.
How much potential does this hardware offer.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/ODROID-X-Raspberry-Pi-Quad-Core-Buy-Online,news-39078.html
Also does it offer possibilities for os4 ????
I haven't been able to buy a Raspberry Pi and it already has a cult following. There is a magazine called the Magpi and Adafruit is making accessories for it.
The potential is huge because it is perfect for children to learn on. It has HDMI so it will be well positioned because HDMI is here to stay.
There is the software side where people will write programs and play games and there is the hardware side where people will engineer for it.
There are a few people looking for replacement computers for the gap that Commodore left and they are building their own. The question is whether Commodore users will stick up their nose and be assimilated by Microsoft or Apple or whether they will try. What you don't have is new hardware unless it is a SAM, Minimig, A1200 or future Natami. I predict that most users will leave for those reasons unless they get a new computer and you are stuck without hardware updates. It is time to invite the hardware engineers to the forum.
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There are a few people looking for replacement computers for the gap that Commodore left and they are building their own. The question is whether Commodore users will stick up their nose and be assimilated by Microsoft or Apple or whether they will try. What you don't have is new hardware unless it is a SAM, Minimig, A1200 or future Natami. I predict that most users will leave for those reasons unless they get a new computer and you are stuck without hardware updates. It is time to invite the hardware engineers to the forum.
No mention of the fpga Arcade? The fpga Arcade with add on board should be available soon and is pretty powerful. It should give the Amiga classic a little wind in it's sails. I'll be buying one to play with while I wait on the Natami :).
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Pi Theory -very cheap computer used to get kids interested in programming.
Pi Fact - very cheap computer mainly purchased by the older generation who already know how to program and want to see what tricks they can do with it. The small user base will make this device similar to things such as the Pandora.
Pi Probables - I'm sure someone will develop a cheap emulation style system they will start selling on ebay using the Pi. Possibly as a handheld. Maybe an amiga handheld or something.
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It seems people are obsessed with finding something better than the pi
Or perhaps less mainstream
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Not me, I have an iPhone.
It seems people are obsessed with finding something better than the pi
Or perhaps less mainstream
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No mention of the fpga Arcade? The fpga Arcade with add on board should be available soon and is pretty powerful. It should give the Amiga classic a little wind in it's sails. I'll be buying one to play with while I wait on the Natami :).
Sorry, I can't remember every project.
Amiga users need a new hardware initiative.
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Quote Originally Posted by swoslover :-
"It seems people are obsessed with finding something better than the pi.
Or perhaps less mainstream. "
Not obsessed, but it is nice to see what you get for your money.
Yes definitely less mainstream (Not Windows?????)
Linux, Aros, Aros Broadway, Aeros, arch emulator, and even morphos !!!!
P.s Definitely getting Rasberry when sold with case, even though there's a nice see thru case on Adafruit (thanks ChuckT ). If things start happening with
the ODRIOD then it's a possibility!!!
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Why don't people think the raspberry is going to be successful?
They've already been surprised about the demand, and been unable to keep up with it.
Now you can order more than one at a time, still back logged up to September (Approx.)
It was initially targeted towards education and/or bedroom programmers, and now people are realizing other hardware projects/low cost solutions involving Pi control.
The main advantage of the pi is it's cost, i.e. it doesn't dissuade people to experiment/tinker
with the risk of a non-working piece of hardware.
......................................Yes I've started spell checking my post's !!!
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Why don't people think the raspberry is going to be successful?
They've already been surprised about the demand, and been unable to keep up with it.
You mean they aren't going to be successful with it. They don't understand it because it is basically a computer dressed up like a microcontroller. It requires them to learn Linux or a language that runs on it. It requires them to download magazines for the Pi, join a forum, and start over (learning).
They are all lost on the basic hardware side of it because they don't have a basic toolkit consisting of a PC Board clamp, a soldering iron, wire cutters, a multimeter, a breadboard, etc.
The C-64 users on this forum (if many of them ever were) have reached a privileged position where they feel they no longer have to be geeks, tinkerers, programmers or hackers which is what helps makes computers "cool".
The Raspberry Pi is basically a hardware initiative for the homebrew computer movement which they don't want to be a part of.
In all seriousness, I have spent a couple of years trying to learn microcontrollers and I've been thrown off of a teaching forum for saying that microcontrollers is not something that everyone can teach themselves because they are (1) too lazy and (2) too mean to help others. The reason why people don't learn microcontrollers is because there is an expense and it takes time to learn it. "What if I buy all this stuff and I can't learn it?" I learned the language Basic at home and then I took it in College. I also took Pascal and Assembly. I learned it and and had to re-learn it to be able to teach it.
The Raspberry Pi has all the makings for a computer club or "the social" which Arduino is and you all are missing something fun and a learning opportunity.
You have the Amiga userbase that is eventually going to die out unless you have some serious hardware initiatives to get people back into personal computers.
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You mean they aren't going to be successful with it. They don't understand it because it is basically a computer dressed up like a microcontroller. It requires them to learn Linux or a language that runs on it. It requires them to download magazines for the Pi, join a forum, and start over (learning).
They are all lost on the basic hardware side of it because they don't have a basic toolkit consisting of a PC Board clamp, a soldering iron, wire cutters, a multimeter, a breadboard, etc.
The C-64 users on this forum (if many of them ever were) have reached a privileged position where they feel they no longer have to be geeks, tinkerers, programmers or hackers which is what helps makes computers "cool".
The Raspberry Pi is basically a hardware initiative for the homebrew computer movement which they don't want to be a part of.
In all seriousness, I have spent a couple of years trying to learn microcontrollers and I've been thrown off of a teaching forum for saying that microcontrollers is not something that everyone can teach themselves because they are (1) too lazy and (2) too mean to help others. The reason why people don't learn microcontrollers is because there is an expense and it takes time to learn it. "What if I buy all this stuff and I can't learn it?" I learned the language Basic at home and then I took it in College. I also took Pascal and Assembly. I learned it and and had to re-learn it to be able to teach it.
The Raspberry Pi has all the makings for a computer club or "the social" which Arduino is and you all are missing something fun and a learning opportunity.
You have the Amiga userbase that is eventually going to die out unless you have some serious hardware initiatives to get people back into personal computers.
I'm not sure i understand this but I thought people 20 years ago learnt how to program because they had no choice not because they wanted to. 20 years ago even installing something simple required typing some sort of code but today it's all plug and play. Do you really think if the programmers from the C64 era came into the future today would be so keen to learn code? Especially the PI? I think not.
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I'm not sure i understand this but I thought people 20 years ago learnt how to program because they had no choice not because they wanted to. 20 years ago even installing something simple required typing some sort of code but today it's all plug and play. Do you really think if the programmers from the C64 era came into the future today would be so keen to learn code? Especially the PI? I think not.
You had a choice, loading games didn't require any programming ability. Knowing to type LOAD is like knowing to say bonjour to a french person.
We really need a computer that turns up ready to plug in to a keyboard, TV and internet and you can just start programming without having to worry about breaking it. The PI is close, but it's not quite indestructable enough. It might be enough, we'll see.
So far I only know adults that have bought them because they are a cheap way of buying a reasonably powerful microcontroller for projects that they could buy a solution off the shelf but they don't want to spend the money. They'll almost certainly develop the software on a PC first. If that is all it's destined for then they have missed their target by a mile.
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I'm not sure i understand this but I thought people 20 years ago learnt how to program because they had no choice not because they wanted to. 20 years ago even installing something simple required typing some sort of code but today it's all plug and play. Do you really think if the programmers from the C64 era came into the future today would be so keen to learn code? Especially the PI? I think not.
My son is in the gifted program and I feel differently. I taught my son to read and write before he went into kindergarden and there were kids in kindergarden still learning to write letters halfway through the school year who are struggling because they didn't try or the parents didn't spend the time. On the other end of the spectrum, there are kids in a homeless shelter that I can name and they need more. The need stuff to do with their hands because they are hyperactive.
Why bus kids to school for a mile or a mile and a half so the kids can have gym? If you can get exercise by walking to school then why do we need to pay teachers to teach gym?
Why wait at a sit down restaurant for some fine good when you can go to McDonald's drive through and have your food now?
Few things are made in this country (USA) anymore. Why produce anything when someone else will take care of you, right?
There are good jobs like engineering that the Raspberry Pi will introduce kids to. Why let those jobs go overseas?
I have ambition. I like to make stuff. It is sad to see people with no ambition. Why not live in a world where no one makes anything and we can just live like primitive animals?
I know psycologists who believe that either you contribute to society or you should have euthanasia. I know psychologists who believe that. Is that far fetched when the U.S. healthcare system decides who gets care and who doesn't get care? If you are over 70, medicare says you don't qualify to get a colonoscopy because you aren't expected to live that much longer. CPR only works in one out of five people but since it doesn't work in four out of five, we shouldn't give CPR to people, right?
Lets expect someone to take care of us and we'll just be consumers instead of producers. Let us make the smart kids rich so they can eat their rich dinner.
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Raspberry Pi is from a charity in the UK who's main aim is to get it into the hands of children, preferably in schools. Because it's cheap, it's been very popular with other demographics (middle aged tinkerers like myself) and sales have been huge, but that is besides the point; it's cheap to be easily replaceable (if a kid breaks one), hook-up-able to a TV (lots of charities & schools have TVs without HDMI for example, which is why it has composite out) and so on.
I know we have a great mix of posters from around the world so for those non-UK posters, a little background.
In 1998/1999 the UK removed "Computer Science" from the National Curriculum and replaced it with "ICT" Internet Communications Technology. Computers Sciences used to cover programming (in BASIC & LOGO amongst others) and other more technical aspects of computing. ICT is far simpler, covering things like how to use MS Office and more day-to-day computer use; we're no longer teaching more complex skills to our children.
Since this change the number of Computer Science Degree applicants has fallen. Some argue this also is due to so-called "modern" computers and OS's becoming easier to use, removing the technological / learning aspect (to some degree) from users.
The aim of the Pi is to get children interested in learning computing again; I recall in school in the 80's in the UK meant we had 3 BBC Micro networks, each run by a BBC Master, with robots controlled via LOGO commands (Tell Turtle North anyone?). We had classes covering programming, simple BASIC stuff, enough to get me interested in making my own software but more importantly letting me understand my OWN ability and give me the confidence to experiment. My Atari 800XL went from "just for games" to "something I could program" myself - I bought disk drives and subscribed to magazines to learn everything I could; I would never have bought an Amiga 500, then my A1200, never have learned to script AREXX and mess about with AMOS and Blitz Basic and certainly never would have considered a computing degree if it hadn't been for the confidence I gained early on. Simply knowing "it was possible", even if I couldn't do it myself, lead to greater things.
ICT is being removed in the coming years from the curriculum and our Education Secretary in the Government has promised a return to a more technical computer-studies curriculum.
This is the ambition the charity has for the Pi. Some kids will love it, some will look it over and move on and some just won't be interested; but I envy those who get hooked!
I see Steve of Imica fame has been posting videos of AROS running on the Pi already. I can't wait to play with that myself!
More info:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tech/news/a393596/raspberry-pi-foundation-hopes-for-production-shift-to-uk.html
Also a long (17 minutes!) video from Eben Upton about the history of the project:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xFzVuxldqs
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Lot's of similar boards out there
http://www.reghardware.com/2012/05/10/product_round_up_arm_mini_computers_the_best_and_the_rest/
All with various prices, speeds, os's, is it always the fastest that wins????
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This looks somewhat superior.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/processor-android-raspberry-pi-gooseberry-arm,16355.html
http://gooseberry.atspace.co.uk/