Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: tclay9214 on July 04, 2012, 03:32:15 PM
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Hello All,
I am interested in getting back into the Amiga platform after many years out of it.
I have a fairly modern pc running Windows 7 and Ubuntu linux,also bought a power pc based Mac desktop in case I wanted to buy Morphos.
I have tried Aros,the 30 minute trial of Morphos,winuae,Amiga Forever from Cloanto.
What do you think offers the most Amiga like experience?
I liked Morphos but the high cost is a deterrent right now,I'd like to set up a machine just for running Amiga software or as close as I can get to the real thing on modern hardware.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Thomas
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What do you mean by "Amiga Software" here? 68k?
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You already know the options. When you do not want to pay money for licenses/new hardware there is only Amigaforever (at least not expensive), my 68k distribution based on Aros 68k and Aros X86
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AROS is the only way to go for modern hardware... :)
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@tclay9214,
OK
Here I go to flame city again, but I likes it.
First I agree with bloodline, Aros looks the most promising if you like modern day equipment, but if you like old equipment, that you could possibly find at an old yard sale, for about $10 than MorphOS is for you.
Ok, I will eat my words saying I wouldn't take a Mac it they gave it to me, because I just bought one at a yard sale for $10, I possibly could got it for $5 dollars if I bargained more for it.
Now for the expensive part, buying MorphOS, is it worth 79 euro's or $99, Ubuntu is free, Windows 8 I heard will be $49 for those that have Windows 7, since I have been a regular customer with Cloanto's Amiga Forever, I believe if I remember correctly I paid $29 for AF2012, and AROS is free and uses modern day equipment.
After trying MorphOS for the past 2 days I found exactly like I thought, it has some use, like if you like the internet, OWB works, and it also plays Youtube videos. So that makes it one step above the original Amiga. As of yet I haven't figured out how to get an adf file to load, (Cloantos Amiga Forever loads them right up for did I say $29, and with MorphOS I have to jump through hoops for $99).
OK you wanted to know what system was best to run Amiga Stuff, well the Amiga does pretty good but to run some software I have to use degrader, switch to pal or NTSC, sometimes shut down memory, or take off the external drive. Now that is with an original Amiga. With Cloanto's Amiga Forever, I click on the adf file and away I go, if I do it right it will put up four disk drives and if the game uses four disks I don't have to worry about eject and reload, if I did it wrong then I have to insert the next disk just like on a single drive Amiga.
What I am trying to say is that Cloanto's Amiga Forever is better than an Amiga. Now if I had to measure them in order they would wind up in the following order.
1. Cloanto's Amiga Forever 2012
2. Amiga 4000, or A1200
3. AROS (could never get internet working, but that is my Toshiba's fault)
4. MorphOS very nice internet package, needs work on loading adf programs, and needs more ummmph!!! before I will spend $99 for it. OH YEAH!! faster booter of any OS out there, very nice even faster than my Amiga 1200, AND THAT IS QUICK!!!
Still MorphOS running on old hardware, that people are throwing out, and selling at yard sales. You need to modernize. Even Apple dumped PPC. (Sorry have to give a fair view)
AROS -- nice package, installed on my Toshiba laptop and ran nicely for the programs you gave with the package, I gave up when I saw no internet, but once again the Toshiba Satellite has an odd internet driver.
Winner is Cloanto's Amiga Forever for $29, will gladly pay for a UAE package that has been beefed up this well.
Well will have to go, loading in Ubuntu on my MAC mini, I would like to give thanks to my friend Rob, for bringing home my Mac mini, that I had bought, setting it up and showing me OS X tiger, which is a bit more useful than MorphOS, and AROS. He also put the blue tooth adapter into the back of the mini, so that I wouldn't have to touch anything associated with the Mac mini, the blue tooth adapter went to a PC keyboard and mouse, which works perfectly with the Mac mini so I don't have to touch it. Now if I could only figure out where that smell of rotten apples is coming from.
smerf
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I agree with bloodline. If you want a modern system that will run anything you want, you want aros, of course it depends a bit on what you want to do with it... If your looking to run classic games and apps, I think amiga forever or AROS are the best choice.
Os4 and morphos will not run very demanding 68k games or demos without major frame skipping, sound problems and slow downs.
So if you want a system that will run any legacy amiga software, and also some modern apps, I think aros is the best choice.
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There is no direct linkage, but if you look at MacOS X it's imo very like what Amiga would have become had Commodore not imploded.
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AROS is pretty cool and free, but lacking many key Amiga elements under the hood.
MorphOS felt very next gen Amiga to me, and it just had a price cut. It's kind of hard to fully explore within the time frame of the 30 minute demo, but once you really dive into it and throw some classic apps at it, I think you'll be pretty amazed. Though just make sure your Mac has more than 32Mb of GFX RAM or else you'll find yourself restricted in what all you can do.
I have heard OS 4 is coming along well, but is not yet as polished, stable, or cheap to run as MorphOS. Though I've never touched it so I'm not certain as to how good it is, but it does run classic apps like MorphOS so that has to count for something.
Last but not least there is Amithlon. It's tricky to get going, but when you do it pays off...
Very fast like MorohOS in regards to running classic apps.
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Most Amiga like experience on modern hardware??
That's an easy one: The Minimig. Modernd hardware, fast, easy to use and a compatibility level so high that you'll have a very hard time trying to find a game or demo that has any problem on it.
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I'd like to put my flame-suit on and suggest trying one of the *NIXes- They're extremely adaptable, and can be made very Amiga-like if you enjoy tinkering.
If you want something that's allready out there, Aros is the way to go.
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As a Gentoo Linux user/lover for years, I must disagree.
Unix-like systems are NOT suited for the desktop. They are big, obscure, clumsy and hard to work with (and I mean OS-level work, not internet web-browsing or office productivity). You can, to a certain degree, get used to them and build a fast, somewhat light system taking Linux sources as a base (the Gentoo way is just an example), but it's NOT amiga-ish at all: it's just the opposite: the Amiga was conceived to be a desktop system, friendly and accessible right from the start.
However, with the advent of wayland-based distros, we *could* hope for faster, lighter Linux systems. But nowadays, any Linux distro (unles you build from sources and adapt it to your hardware/software requeriments), Unix-like is NOT amiga at all.
Closest hardware to Amiga is the Minimig (call it V1-1 original Minimig, FPGA arcade, Altera DE1 with the awesome chaos work or even Chameleon 64 core port): it IS amiga hardware capable of running true legacy Amiga software.
AROS is AmigaOS done right: open-sourced reimplementation. If you want an Amiga OS for non-commodore or FPGA hardware (I must insist you consider the second option if you want legacy software running perfect), then look no further: AROS is what you want.
Other OSes similar to the Amiga OS idea of accesibility and great response with a reasonable hard/soft integration are, imho, Risc OS (get your Risc OS computer for a low price, as it's compatible with the Beagleboard, Pandaboard and Raspberry Pi- yes it runs already on the Pi!), and Haiku (BeOS).
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If already you picked up a Mac to potentially run MOS, I would go that route and save for the OS in the meantime.
MOS has the best feeling of what Amiga OS is. It is extremely fast, consistently evolved over many point releases, runs many 68k applications, and is the most polished over any other offering. Feelings are emotions and therefore subjective, but to me MOS feels the most like Amiga. To be fair I haven't personally used OS 4, but from the videos and comments it seems that it has a real flavor of 3.x 68k. If you want love the classic Amiga feeling that would be your choice. The entry price for OS4 on the latest HW isn't cheap though...
Good luck.
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WinUAE of course
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WinUAE of course
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That's true, but you'll still need AROS to run it... Unless you have the original
Amiga ROMs from someplace ;)
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That's true, but you'll still need AROS to run it... Unless you have the original
Amiga ROMs from someplace ;)
Oh yes well there is that sure. But apart from that what have the Romans ever done for us....?
Ohh! that's right; Amiga Forever : http://www.amigaforever.com/system/
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@tclay9214
If your Mac desktop hardware is compatible with MorphOS, I would suggest MorphOS.
Otherwise, one of the many fine choices for your pc.
AmigaOS4 is another option if you are willing to purchase the required hardware. A new SAM460 is approx $1000 US (plus shipping and handling fees) for the motherboard and OS4 CD. Used SAM440 systems are less expensive.
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redfox
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Since we were all at one point Amiga users with a real Amiga computer we recognize what gives the best experience which is, the actual hardware.
From a financial point it seems a emulator can do the same for a fraction of the cost and without worrying about limitations or hardware failure.
Personally, i would go for the antique hardware since emulators are only so good. This is especially true when you want to play games. Sometimes timing is an issue etc...
I want to get back myself right now, just did not see the perfect fit for me.
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Fpga?
No, not UAE, not by a long shot. :)
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The one thing that bothers me on all these solutions is modern screens.
Without proper v-sync, those old games and demos look like crap.
Without CRT pixel blur, they look blocky and show all the hard edges that the original artists saw smoothly blending together to fake higher resolutions.
I haven't seen a solution yet that really solves the problems.
The best game experience is still a real Amiga and crappy old CRT.
But for productivity software, emulation wins hands down IMHO. Unbelievably fast, high capacity and dirt cheap.
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I'm not anywhere near as experience as the other people posting answers, but only a rusted Amiga fan who made a come back just a few weeks ago.
I currently own an A1200, A3000 (with DENEB controller which gives me access to modern peripherals) and a Mac Mini running MorphOS. Based on my short experience, I can say that I love the lightning speed of MorphOS and the "Amigaish" handling, but because of my inexperience I guess, I haven't been very successful running Amiga applications or games. I have so far only run ports of Amiga games and TVPaint (a DPaint kind app).
I must say that there's nothing like the real thing, the "real, good ole Amiga," BUT you must find a way of getting one to which you can add Internet connectivity to make it easier for you to download and use adf files, patches, apps to mount and manipulate files. If this becomes unaffordable, then make sure you have a PCMCIA cf adapter, making sure of course that you can use cf cards in a PC or Mac, to download and transfer what you need.
Just in recent days I learned about the Minimig and I must say that it looks very cool, but I am not sure it can close the gap well between old tech and new tech (for peripherals). I do have an interest in systems running OS4.1 such as SAM or A-AEON; for instance I like the sam440epflex. One thing I don't have very clear though is how the systems using PPC tech are better or closer to a real Amiga than the CUSA's Amigas.
I hope my comments as a rookie make sense.
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One thing I don't have very clear though is how the systems using PPC tech are better or closer to a real Amiga than the CUSA's Amigas.QUOTE]
CUSA HW has Amiga in name, nothing else.
PPC Amiga HW can run real AOS, that has become PPC native.
Thats the main difference, IMHO.
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What do you think offers the most Amiga like experience?
Perhaps AmigaForever gives the shortest path to get Amiga experience. (you can easily enchance it via AmigaSYS or Amikit package)
Then upgraded real A1200 might be nice to tinker with real state of the art Classic Amiga.
MOS and AROS will enable to test modern stuff easily.
For AOS4 you need extra HW, but perhaps it most resembles AOS3.x.
I have some experience of AOS68k,AROS,MOS and AOS4.
I still need real 68k Amiga for things like fully working Deluxe paint, genlockable output etc. (I have A4000D/T, A600HD etc...)
About next gen:
I've tried to use AOS4 as my main system, but so far it has required too much work to make it work perfectly (ok, if you have the time to just to tinker with it, but if you need to produce something...) AOS4 ships also with real 68k kickstart files and it's the first varian to head to multicore support. AOS SW development community seems very active, but perhaps it's just more visible. I have SAM440ep-mini and it's a little feels a bit too slow for serious use, but I think it's most mature platform for AOS4.
MOS seems the most mature NG variant. I believe that with it you end up faster in doing things rather than just trying to set it work perfectly. I definitely should use it more (I have MacMini HW).
AROS, when I last tried it, felt raw. I think with AROS you need most work to make it nicely running. But also for AROS, I should install latest version to try it more. For AROS I have 1.7Ghz sempron setups (desktop and laptop, but for laptop I need to figure out how to get AROS back on it, after DVD drive is broken and it does not boot from USB). AROS seems to need most HW performance to run OK. AEROS (broadway X ?) might one day prove to be very interesting AROS distribution, it should enable running lightningly fast AROS+AROS apps+linux apps+68k apps, just via clicking on any of those application icons (it runs hosted on linux kernel, other NG variants are fully native).
For any NG OS you should get above 1Ghz CPU.
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"AROS, when I last tried it, felt raw. I think with AROS you need most work to make it nicely running."
When you want to install it you need supported hardware (the same problem as Linux) so best you ask on aros-exec what to use. For start you can install and use it in a "controlled" environment like VMWARE. There are three big distributions (Icaros, AspireOS and Broadway X) to choice. So no excuse to not trying it out. When you are only interested in 68k I can offer you my distribution based on Aros 68k. It is based on Kickstart Replacement and reprogramming of 3.1. (Aros 68k). Not all old software works, but much (and improving)
http://www.natami-news.de/html/aros_vision.html
http://www.natami-news.de/html/distribution_download.html
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CUSA HW has Amiga in name, nothing else.
PPC Amiga HW can run real AOS, that has become PPC native.
Thats the main difference, IMHO.
There is no real reason to spend that much money on a OS4 PPC system and get so little for the money. There are cheap used Macs that will run MOS. AROS will run on the new Commodore Amiga systems as well as any x86 system and it's free. Going x86 route, that leaves him the option to multi-boot into main stream OSs as well as having an Amiga like environment which he really won't have as an option going PPC.
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If you have the right hardware already I would choose aros it loaded nice on a dell inspirion 6000, but not my toshiba satelite. If you don't I would go with amiga forever or a uae download. Haven't tried morph os so can't comment on it really.
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There is no real reason to spend that much money on a OS4 PPC system and get so little for the money.....
If person already owns compatible x86, sure, one should try AROS.
If person owns compatible PPC Mac HW, sure, on should try MOS.
Getting AROS system from 0 costs perhaps 300eur. (new or partially new HW)
Getting to MOS from 0 costs perhaps 400eur. (used HW)
Getting AOS4 system costs perhaps about 1000eur. (new HW)
So, yes, AOS4 experience is pricey for now.
But if one really wants to try & use "AOS" on above 100Mhz HW natively, only PPC Amigas can do it. That's the reason why I have SAM. I want to see where AOS is and where it goes.
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If person already owns compatible x86, sure, one should try AROS.
If person owns compatible PPC Mac HW, sure, on should try MOS.
Getting AROS system from 0 costs perhaps 300eur. (new or partially new HW)
Getting to MOS from 0 costs perhaps 400eur. (used HW)
Getting AOS4 system costs perhaps about 1000eur. (new HW)
So, yes, AOS4 experience is pricey for now.
But if one really wants to try & use "AOS" on above 100Mhz HW natively, only PPC Amigas can do it. That's the reason why I have SAM. I want to see where AOS is and where it goes.
Via UAE you can achieve running AOS on multi GHz level. If you are referring to the AmigaOne series, they are not an Amiga nor Commodore Amiga, just AmigaOne and nothing else.
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I have a Turbo chameleon 64 with and 1.1 miming core on it.
It actually does a pretty good job emulating an a500. Even the 31.5 khz scan rate matches a flicker fixed signal.
And it is new with a May 2012 production date.
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Hi,
@tclay9214,
Remember, if you are going to get an emulator on modern hardware, I would go with Cloanto's Amiga Forever, it runs good on your most up to date PC machines, gives the least trouble running adf software and is probably the best.
Other would say that MorphOS running on an old obsolete Mac is the best, but, you have to jump throught hoops playing a game on this system and as for being the "True Amiga" it is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. The only thing it is, is a very poor emulation of the Amiga. As far a being a new Mac OS, I would go with that, it shows promise.
AROS another emulator for PC's, way behind Amiga Forever, but it shows promise for running on new modern up to date hardware unlike one OS that has you locked into a tired bunch of hardware that should have been buried a long time ago.
smerf
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Hi,
@yester64,
[Personally, i would go for the antique hardware since emulators are only so good. This is especially true when you want to play games. Sometimes timing is an issue etc...]
Been with the Amiga since 2 weeks after it came out. To tell you the truth Amiga Forever is way better than any of my Amiga's. As far a timing, the only games both the Amiga and Amiga Forever have trouble with are the companies like Electronic Farts, which really banged the hardware. Case in point Arctic Fox, ran on Amiga OS 1.0 on the A1000, after that it wouldn't run on Amiga OS 1.1 up. So far using Amiga Forever, I have found very few programs it wouldn't run. Electronic Farts programs are the worst but then again that is why I own serveral different Amiga's.
smerf
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Calling Aros an emulator shows your overall knowledge about the amiga systems.
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I've been an Amiga user since 1987 and love original hardware. I was a UAE "resister" for a long time - used the same arguments as others - timing of emulation was off, etc. But I'd actually never tried it - or tried to tweak it properly.
Then my long babied hardware finally broke down. I was forced to try UAE.
A well tweaked UAE system is awesome. Feels an Amiga with a very fast accelerator and SCSI setup, and an ultimate memory expansion (although you can also configure it to the original limited specs as well).
I use mostly productivity software (including MIDI music sequencers where timing is important), but games also run well for me.
I still love the original Amigas. And I like using the original keyboards, etc. But I have an old Model-M keyboard on my PC for that retro-feel....and honestly, the Amiga UAE experience is flawless. It would be cool to hook up the A2000's keyboard to my PC if that was possible (but I'm not sure how the lack of F11 and F12 would impact use of programs on the Windows side).
With the latest version of WinUAE, you can even emulate the scan lines and blur of a 1084 monitor on an LCD screen. Looks very convincing.
Before I got an LCD monitor, I was using a CRT monitor and seriously, the output looked EXACTLY like my A2000 with flicker fixer on a CRT monitor (because the PC's CRT could even change scan-rates and resolution according the the emulated Amiga's screen preferences).
If I had hidden the PC under a desk and put an Amiga user in front of the monitor and keyboard, I'm not sure they would have been able to tell the were not using a real Amiga.
Yes, once in a while (rarely) WinUAE crashes when I push it super hard - like editing a 100MB bitmap file in ImageFX. But these crashes are far less than the GURUs I used to get on real hardware.
I still have my old A2000 and will try and resurrect it, but for productivity work, the speed and memory available to WinUAE can't be matched.
Plus, starting games is no slower than clicking a mouse (I have all my old Amiga games set up in Amiga Forever, each configured with a custom Amiga configuration and screen mode in RP9 files)....so games that require Workbench 1.2, 1.3, 2.1, 3.1, etc. all run instantly.
It's been a very positive experience for me - and I've never been more productive in AmigaOS than now. I essentially view my machine as an alternative platform that supports AmigaOS and runs it very well.
The best part is that I can buy off-the-shelf replacement hardware instead of sweating about expensive ancient irreplaceable hardware that might break down any time. I would switch back to real hardware if I could get a real hardware Amiga that could offer me the same speed and memory that WinUAE can, and if I would not be always praying that old hardware wouldn't break down every time I turned the machine on.
If you're really anti-windows, then I would buy an older single or dual core intel machine, install a stripped down version of Windows XP (bare minimum) and install WinUAE on top of that. The machine would then seem like it was booting straight into AmigaOS, giving an almost seamless Amiga experience.
I think if AROS was equal to WinUAE, I would consider that too.
So, if you already having functioning original hardware - by all means use it. If you own nothing original and want to get into a good working AmigaOS system as cheaply as possible try Amiga Forever (which is based in WinUAE with an easier to use interface for novices). For an even more authentic experience get an old CRT monitor for the WinUAE PC. Or download and try WinUAE for free.
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Hi,
@ThEcrow,
The word emulation refers to:
An ambition and effort to equal, excel or surpass another; to compete or rival with some degree of success, especially through imitation
The low-level simulation of equipment or phenomena by artificial means, such as by software modeling. Note that simulation may also allow an abstract high-level model.
Computing
Emulator, imitation of behavior of a computer or other electronic system with the help of another type of computer/system
Video game console emulator, a program that allows a personal computer or video game console to emulate another video game console
In-circuit emulator, a program used to emulate the processor in an embedded system, to aid in debugging
Hardware emulation, the use of special purpose hardware to emulate the behavior of a yet-to-be-built system, with greater speed than pure software emulation
Emulation for Logic Validation, used to emulate hardware in manufacturing automation
Could you please repeat that, after being trained by Commodore to sell Amiga systems, and explain their hardware and software assets as compared to other systems, and winning the Best Salesman Award, three years straight in the big city of San Francisco, I would say that my overall knowledge of the Amiga systems far surpasses your little tidbit knowledge of the Amiga systems. You still probably think that MorphOS running on a MAC is a real Amiga, when the truth be known is that it is a very sorry imatation brought to you by a bunch of Mac users, trying to make all Amiga users look like idiots.
And believe me some are, they have fallen for the lines of these Mac people who have tried to say that MorphOS is the next Amiga, now these guys should say the next great Amiga Emulator.
Even I who like and support Cloanto's Amiga Forever know that it is just a super Amiga Emulator. Is it an Amiga no - it is a winblows machine.
Is MorphOS an Emulator - yes it runs on an old obsolete Mac and is in the running for 2nd place on the Amiga Emulator contest
Is AROS an Emulator -- yes it is in the running for 2nd place in the Amiga Emulator contest, and probably has a better chance than MorphOS to win since it run on Modern Hardware.
Why do I choose "Cloanto's Amiga Forever" as first place Winner and Emulator -- quite simple, it comes with the Amiga OS roms, it automatically chooses the right machine for the program you are trying to run, and
For simple minded delusional people who think that all these emulators are the next best Amiga, it will probably work best for you.
Not only that but did I say it also emulates AROS, and you can play with the build your own Amiga system emulation by clicking on features that you want.
Oh did I mention that AF emulates AROS.
By the way just to let you know I support all the people programming these programs on the different machines, why?
Because I no longer have the patience to do something like that, (ok the knowledge) so keep on programming, who knows some day you may impress the old smerf, and I may actually give you a good review.
By the way did you know that MorphOS automaticallly sets up the internet protocal, it is one of the easiest internet setups next to Linux and it also runs Youtube quite well.
On AROS I have not yet made AROS find the internet, could be because they are still stuck emulating an old obsolete NIC card in thier old obsolete PC machine.
Got to give the devil its due.
smerf
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Hi,
Thank you ral-clan,
I use Cloanto's Amiga Forever, and I think it is great. I just didn't want to go through all the hassle of finding the roms, then setting up the machines, etc. etc.
OK I am freaking lazy and I am also old, so I don't want the hassle anymore. After several years of programming, working 18 to 24 hour days (thats right as a programmer when you need to finish up a program to meet a deadline you may not get any sleep for 2 or three days, sort of defeats the cause) I just don't like hassles. I want something I can load up and run, and Cloanto's Amiga Forever is just that. An emulator that works and works great. Don't need any specific hardware, especially obsolete junk that I threw out 10 years ago, don't need the enemies fanboy computer, hate even touching it, that machine was really made for non computer users, find the switch and turn it on, (and on a Mac mini that is no easy chore, trying to find that on / off button with those thick bio hazard gloves on is pretty hard).
smerf
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The word emulation refers to:
An ambition and effort to equal, excel or surpass another; to compete or rival with some degree of success, especially through imitation
The low-level simulation of equipment or phenomena by artificial means, such as by software modeling. Note that simulation may also allow an abstract high-level model.
Computing
Emulator, imitation of behavior of a computer or other electronic system with the help of another type of computer/system
Video game console emulator, a program that allows a personal computer or video game console to emulate another video game console
In-circuit emulator, a program used to emulate the processor in an embedded system, to aid in debugging
Hardware emulation, the use of special purpose hardware to emulate the behavior of a yet-to-be-built system, with greater speed than pure software emulation
Emulation for Logic Validation, used to emulate hardware in manufacturing automation
Equivocation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy#Equivocation)Equivocation consists in employing the same word in two or more senses, e.g. in a syllogism, the middle term being used in one sense in the major and another in the minor premise, so that in fact there are four not three terms. Often this happens when the two meanings are similar despite being distinctly different.
Example Argument: All heavy things have a great mass; Jim has a "heavy heart"; therefore Jim's heart has a great mass. Problem: Heavy describes more than just weight. (Jim is sad.)
What you say, loosely speaking, is true, however, there is a distinct difference in how UAE and AROS/MorphOS/AmigaOS 4.1 "emulate" an Amiga. There's also a distinct difference between what you get from those two differing types of "emulation." You are taking the meaning in one sense, i.e. precise emulation of Amiga via software as superior while ignoring the advantages of API emulation on more advanced hardware.
Play nice.
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Equivocation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy#Equivocation)
What you say, loosely speaking, is true, however, there is a distinct difference in how UAE and AROS/MorphOS/AmigaOS 4.1 "emulate" an Amiga. There's also a distinct difference between what you get from those two differing types of "emulation." You are taking the meaning in one sense, i.e. precise emulation of Amiga via software as superior while ignoring the advantages of API emulation on more advanced hardware.
Play nice.
Hi,
HUH!!!
smerf
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Won't waste my time with you dude. Don't forget to take your medications.
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@dammy
>Via UAE you can achieve running AOS on multi GHz level.
Yes, but it's not native. Only emulation on top of some other OS.
>If you are referring to the AmigaOne series, they are not an Amiga nor Commodore Amiga, just AmigaOne and nothing else.
By "PPC Amigas" I meant ClassicPPC, Pergasos2, AmigaOne, SAM. HW that are capable of running AmigaOS above 100Mhz natively.
(I could not care less about the actual name of the HW.)
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@dammy
>Via UAE you can achieve running AOS on multi GHz level.
Yes, but it's not native. Only emulation on top of some other OS.
The only thing that runs AOS natively on is a 68K Amiga, everything else has emulation/translation layer which isn't native by a long shot.
>If you are referring to the AmigaOne series, they are not an Amiga nor Commodore Amiga, just AmigaOne and nothing else.
By "PPC Amigas" I meant ClassicPPC, Pergasos2, AmigaOne, SAM. HW that are capable of running AmigaOS above 100Mhz natively.
(I could not care less about the actual name of the HW.)
Does that mean I should also be able to label AROS as AmigaOS if I can care less about the actual name of the OS?
Now show us a video of you DBANing the AmigaOne Drive(s) and just installing WB 3.9 floppies and then boot it into WB 3.9 and then I will concede it's running 68K software natively.
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there is Aros 68k running on classic hardware. Is that emulation too?
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@dammy
>The only thing that runs AOS natively on is a 68K Amiga, everything else has emulation/translation layer which isn't native by a long shot.
So, you are not aware that AmigaOS has been ported to PPC. LOL!
>Does that mean I should also be able to label AROS as AmigaOS if I can care less about the actual name of the OS?
I was not talking about the name of the OS, actually.
But I do not care about the name of the OS either.
I'm interested to see the evolution of original AmigaOS codebase.
AmigaOS4 is it, the AmigaOS codebase, compiled to run natively on PPC.
The world has moved beyond 68k.
I like all variants of our AmigalikeOSs. I plan to use all of them also in the future.
(68k version because it is classic, PPC AOS because it's real AOS, MOS because it perhaps is the best (clone) currently, AROS (clone) because it seems to have the brightest future (develops perhaps fastest nowdays, even if it's still behind in general usability, but at this rate, it might catch up) and it's free, etc...)
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@dammy
>The only thing that runs AOS natively on is a 68K Amiga, everything else has emulation/translation layer which isn't native by a long shot.
So, you are not aware that AmigaOS has been ported to PPC. LOL!
Well, he's obviously right. The fact AmigaOS 4 can transparently run 68K software does NOT mean it doesn't need any emulation layer to do that. It needs, indeed, a JIT translator for M68K instructions and calls, which may be less invasive than a whole instance of UAE running in the background, but that's emulation anyway. Some people will insist this is a "better" approach over AROS' dependance on UAE, since it allows running concurrent M68K and PPC programs and libraries, and even mixing up runtime code (es: M68K programs which can take advantage of PPC libraries, and vice versa) in a single environment, however I still prefer emulation of the whole system, with a smaller degree of integration. It's safer and more compatible.
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@dammy
>The only thing that runs AOS natively on is a 68K Amiga, everything else has emulation/translation layer which isn't native by a long shot.
So, you are not aware that AmigaOS has been ported to PPC. LOL!
Exactly what WB 3.x source code was ported?
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Is MorphOS an Emulator - yes ...
smerf
No, its an operating system.
Is AROS an Emulator -- yes ...
smerf
Again, no, its an operating system.
Why do I choose "Cloanto's Amiga Forever" ...
smerf
Now THAT'S an emulator and my personal choice for emulating Amigas too.
For simple minded delusional people who think that all these emulators are the next best Amiga, it will probably work best for you.
smerf
I never said MorphOS was the next best Amiga Smerf, just the best POST Amiga.
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Well, he's obviously right. The fact AmigaOS 4 can transparently run 68K software does NOT mean it doesn't need any emulation layer to do that.
I think he was talking about OS itself, not other 68k software. And OS4 runs natively on PPC, it's evolved from older versions (like 3.x was evolved from 2.x etc), it has compatible API etc. So, AOS runs natively on other than 68k architectures nowadays. Of course you need emulation layer to support old software which can't be recompiled for PPC, but that wasn't the point here.
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Exactly what WB 3.x source code was ported?
Whole AOS3.1 that was available in C. (and you very well know it)
(AOS3.1 was mainly coded in C)
+ Most of third party code of AOS3.9.
The path of source codes can be tracked here:
http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=141:twenty-five&catid=36:amigaos-4x&Itemid=18
+some of the old 68K AOS developers still develop it.
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Well, he's obviously right. The fact AmigaOS 4 can transparently run 68K software does NOT mean it doesn't need any emulation layer to do that. ...
So, also you nowdays insist that AmigaOS4 is not AmigaOS? Only 68k version is AmigaOS?
Note: I have been saying that the only option to run real AmigaOS natively above 100Mhz HW is AOS4 (compiled and enchanced from original source files).
(without taking away the possible fact that other Amigalikes can be better than the original, I'm multicolour.)
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"compiled and enchanced from original source files"
who cares? Users want to have a good computer at the right price and do not care what has originally used 68k code. At least one of the "copies" has avoided to make the same errors as AOS (to connect too tight to one hardware-platform). That was already the problem of the old AOS and it was repeated again.
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"compiled and enchanced from original source files"
You know, I've often wondered how Hyperion dealt with elements introduced after 3.1
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"compiled and enchanced from original source files"
You know, I've often wondered how Hyperion dealt with elements introduced after 3.1
Nothing huge came in 3.5 or 3.9.
but, as I mentioned:
"+ Most of third party code of AOS3.9."
Hyperion made agreements with many third party contributors to get those additions ported.
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"compiled and enchanced from original source files"
who cares? Users want to have a good computer at the right price and do not care what has originally used 68k code. At least one of the "copies" has avoided to make the same errors as AOS (to connect too tight to one hardware-platform). That was already the problem of the old AOS and it was repeated again.
As I mentioned, some do care. AOS totally changed my life 20 years ago, got me my first real IT job etc. I want to see where AOS is and where it goes.
Without AOS I would now be a building architect instead of embedded SW professional.
There's not much on top of that to convince to get AOS4. Well... except to play with new/weird/rare PowerPC HW. (I wanted to play with PPC440 as well, because at that time I was developing SW for it at work)
btw. I doubt there is any HW dependency left from 68k AOS. AOS4 seems to get to different HW pretty ok (currently Classic, A1 series, Peg2, SAM series, with and without cache coherency). IF THEY MANAGE to get the multicore support done without breaking everything, it should prove that they have abstracted the low level stuff pretty nicely) I doubt any of the clones are easier to get (fully) on another HW than current AOS.
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We will see which platform will evolve faster in future. I am pushing now on another platform to speed up the development even more :-). I think competition is always good and Aros and MorphOS will accept the competition. This "clone" sounds rather stupid to me, perhaps you (and some others) see it that way but I can assure you noone outside the OS4 camp (a couple of hundred users) cares about it. We will see who will when what deliver, the development on OS4 is from my view pretty slow but perhaps we all will know more after Amiwest.
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... I think competition is always good ...QUOTE]
I just wish there would be no competition over the very limited OS R&D people.
(if all variants were open source developed, perhaps more co-operation would appear)
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I f.e. offered the idea to share the base code (f.e. USB, PCI, important libs) as Opensource between all camps (in this case I discussed with MorphOS core team members). The answer was pretty clear... NO.
So every camp reinvents every wheel for itself and wastes rare resources but there is no big hope that this will change.
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I f.e. offered the idea to share the base code (f.e. USB, PCI, important libs) as Opensource between all camps (in this case I discussed with MorphOS core team members). The answer was pretty clear... NO.
So every camp reinvents every wheel for itself and wastes rare resources but there is no big hope that this will change.
Asking the MorphOS team open their code?
That's as silly as asking Hyperion to share AOS source code.
You want open source, use AROS.
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Asking the MorphOS team open their code?
That's as silly as asking Hyperion to share AOS source code.
You want open source, use AROS.
He does :P
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He does :P
Who doesn't? ;)
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So every camp reinvents every wheel for itself and wastes rare resources but there is no big hope that this will change.
AROS only reinvents the wheel because it has to to be able to open source the code. The code is there for anybody to use who is willing to comply to the license, including the other camps or you.
greets,
Staf.