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Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: giZmo350 on May 22, 2012, 11:30:03 PM
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Might also be fun to mess around with..... click on the company website link below to get on the waiting list... I did!
The PC is a mini-motherboard without a case, but has the components necessary to make it a functional PC. The APC PC will go on sale in July, according to the company's website (http://apc.io/about/).
The PC comes with 2GB of flash storage and 512 DDR3 RAM
BeagleBone, which is priced starting at $89 (http://beagleboard.org/buy) and runs on a faster ARM processor looks very interesting too!
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9227385/Via_announces_49_PC_with_Android_OS
(http://www.computerworld.com/common/images/site/features/2012/05/Via_508.jpg)
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Hmmm. :)
I just saw that they have PrBOOM (DOOM source port) for Android.
Now if they can get PrBOOM Plus running in GL mode and or Odamex, they have a sale! ;)
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I am probably going to get one of these:
https://www.genesi-usa.com/store/details/11
It has double the memory of the beaglebone and has 8 gig memory onboard for only a tad more than the beaglebone.
These cheap ARM machines remind me of the low cost 8 bit computers of the 80's.
The more things change, the more they stay the same I guess.
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I am probably going to get one of these:
https://www.genesi-usa.com/store/details/11
It has double the memory of the beaglebone and has 8 gig memory onboard for only a tad more than the beaglebone.
These cheap ARM machines remind me of the low cost 8 bit computers of the 80's.
The more things change, the more they stay the same I guess.
That does sound more attractive.
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That does sound more attractive.
Well, it DOES cost quite a bit more.
The VIA system uses the same ARM processor that is in the Sylvania net appliance I just bought.
800MHz isn't blindingly fast, but it ought to be adequate.
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That does sound more attractive.
Just watching this:
http://youtu.be/PmHNecNguDM
Looks like they will be coming out with a new version that is an A8 Cortex 1.2ghz for a similar price. I will wait for that one, but will be buying the ARM11 unit that VIA has announced, I signed up for the e-mail notification so hopefully VIA can roll these out with enough quantity to meet demand.
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Well, it DOES cost quite a bit more.
The VIA system uses the same ARM processor that is in the Sylvania net appliance I just bought.
800MHz isn't blindingly fast, but it ought to be adequate.
The VIA is using an ARM11 chip, but the genesi and beagleboard are using the ARM8. The ARM8 is quite a step up from the ARM11 in terms of speed, like Pentium 2 to Pentium 4 from a performance standpoint. Though I do have a ARM11 running Android 2.3 and it performs okay, graphically intense games stutter quite a bit, but it can watch youtube (not in HD) and surf the web just fine on it. The VIA is very attractive to me as I need an excuse to buy more crap to play with. I think I will make a media player for my daughter to watch her TV shows on with it. Right now I am using an old Dell PC and it is noisy, big and probably has 50 times the power consumption of this little board.
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A8 is OK, but if we're getting into power discussions an A9 would be even better.
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The VIA is using an ARM11 chip, but the genesi and beagleboard are using the ARM8. The ARM8 is quite a step up from the ARM11 in terms of speed, like Pentium 2 to Pentium 4 from a performance standpoint. Though I do have a ARM11 running Android 2.3 and it performs okay, graphically intense games stutter quite a bit, but it can watch youtube (not in HD) and surf the web just fine on it. The VIA is very attractive to me as I need an excuse to buy more crap to play with. I think I will make a media player for my daughter to watch her TV shows on with it. Right now I am using an old Dell PC and it is noisy, big and probably has 50 times the power consumption of this little board.
ARM11 is not better than ARM8? Whats the deal with that....
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ARM11 is not better than ARM8? Whats the deal with that....
Actually, its ARM Cortex-A8 (which is based on the ARMv7) vs the ARM11 (which is based om ARMv6).
So yes, the A8 is better.
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ARM11 is not better than ARM8? Whats the deal with that....
it's not arm8, it's arm cortex a8.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A8
then came the a9, and coming soon is the a15.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A15_MPCore
All of the arm cortex chips implement armv7 instructions, while the arm11 implements armv6 instructions.
armv8 adds 64bit, but there are no cores announced that support it.
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@gizmo350
Press Release with info (http://www.via.com.tw/en/resources/pressroom/pressrelease.jsp?press_release_no=6327)
It seems it's using an ARM11 CPU from WonderMedia, meaning it would be WonderMedia Prizm WM8750 (http://www.wondermedia.com.tw/en/products/platform/soc/wm8750/index.jsp).
The Raspberry Pi is also using an ARM11 CPU, but the CPU Via will be using is clocked at 800MHz and the Raspberry at 700MHz.
The ARM 11 is a really old and slow design though, and I would say that many of my arguments in favor of Efika MX instead (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=8369&start=7) would be true for this one as well...
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BeagleBone, which is priced starting at $89 (http://beagleboard.org/buy) and runs on a faster ARM processor looks very interesting too!
If I'm reading that one correctly, it seems to not come with a video interface ($50 additional for a DVI-D board.)
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Some performance info about ARM chips:
http://www.ptxdist.org/development/kernel/arm-benchmarks-20100729_en.html
http://www.bdti.com/Resources/BenchmarkResults/Processors/Cortex-A8
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Woo, Atom for the (crushing) win.
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If I'm reading that one correctly, it seems to not come with a video interface ($50 additional for a DVI-D board.)
Which would make the EFIKA-MX a far better deal.
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halelujah!
Efika MX is a far far better deal than a pi. Especially if someone plans to use AROS.
http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2168&highlight=broadway
Instead of pi or the via thing i am really excited about the "USB-Stick-PC'S"...
Basically all you need to have an "Amiga-on-a-stick"
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ARM11 is not better than ARM8? Whats the deal with that....
ARM11 (ARMv6) is better than ARM8 (ARMv4 IIRC).
However you are talking about ARM Cortex A8, which is better than ARM11.
Think of Cortex as being like "ARM12", and the letters behind being different implementations. FYI there is ARM Cortex A5, A7, A8, A9 and A15, in increasing order of performance and cost. These all run the ARMv7 ISA (A7 and A15 run ARMv7a IIRC, they are completely ISA compatible, and are designed to run in tandem, low power apps run on the A7, high power on the A15, and the overall result is significant power savings).
There's also ARM Cortex R series (embedded) and ARM Cortex M series (really embedded).
ARMv8 is coming along, and we should see things next year. It has a 64-bit mode that is very PowerPC like. Chances are a fine thing that Hyperion will do a release of AmigaOS 4.x for ARM though, with full SMP and MP, etc (might as well do this when releasing on a new non-compatible ISA).
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halelujah!
Efika MX is a far far better deal than a pi. Especially if someone plans to use AROS.
You think? It's three and a half times the cost, runs at 1.14x the clock rate (or likely 2.2x the speed, counting its better core,) and has 2x the RAM at the same speed. I haven't gotten a chance to compare a Pi's video performance, but I definitely remember the Efika MX's GPU being weaksauce. Not what I'd call a better deal at all, and that's not even getting into the fact that the Pi team are making all the documentation they can available, while Genesi doesn't really have any interest in hobbyist hackers at all.
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There are more powerful dual Cortex-A9 based boards out there:
http://www.origenboard.org/
http://pandaboard.org/
http://www.igloocommunity.org/
You can also buy entire Cortex-A8 based tablets for £70 off ebay, the low end tablets used to be rubbish but they've improved a lot now.
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No thanks, I can get VIA 1ghz x86 compatible boards for £50. This means WinUAE and every other emulator in the world via XP.
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No thanks, I can get VIA 1ghz x86 compatible boards for £50. This means WinUAE and every other emulator in the world via XP.
Approximately $78.32. Still more then $50. And you'd have to run Windows.
And i can put together a better X86 motherboard and CPU for only slightly more.
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What people always forget about something like the Raspberry Pi is that is falls into the impulse buy category... £20 for a computer, sure why not... £30, well ok... £40, that's not really pocket money and I would need to justify spending on that... £50, whatever I buy for £50+ isn't going to be powerful and isn't really very cheap...
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What people always forget about something like the Raspberry Pi is that is falls into the impulse buy category... £20 for a computer, sure why not... £30, well ok... £40, that's not really pocket money and I would need to justify spending on that... £50, whatever I buy for £50+ isn't going to be powerful and isn't really very cheap...
bloodline has a very valid point.
That's why when I saw the Sylvania VIA powered Windows CE netbook going for only $39 I snapped one up (in fact, I contacted them the next day and asked for a second).
Its a cheap, out of pocket expense.
When we start approaching $100, I'd give it more consideration.
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What people always forget about something like the Raspberry Pi is that is falls into the impulse buy category... £20 for a computer, sure why not...
...and then you find out that it's not *really* usable as a computer because of its limitations, so it just ends up in that pile of unused stuff in your garage.
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...and then you find out that it's not *really* usable as a computer because of its limitations, so it just ends up in that pile of unused stuff in your garage.
I don't have a garage, so anything I can't use goes up for sale on Ebay.
So its not wasted funds.
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...and then you find out that it's not *really* usable as a computer because of its limitations, so it just ends up in that pile of unused stuff in your garage.
Doesn't matter... If an Impulse buy product turns out not I meet your needs, it doesn't matter, it only cost a few quid... If I spend £50 on something that turns out to be unsuitable... I've screwed up...
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Doesn't matter... If an Impulse buy product turns out not I meet your needs, it doesn't matter, it only cost a few quid... If I spend £50 on something that turns out to be unsuitable... I've screwed up...
And I've got some great buys that way.
My fist G4 Power mac (a Quicksilver) was purchased for $19.95.
Turned out that it just needed its processor card re-seated.
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You think? It's three and a half times the cost, runs at 1.14x the clock rate (or likely 2.2x the speed, counting its better core,) and has 2x the RAM at the same speed. I haven't gotten a chance to compare a Pi's video performance, but I definitely remember the Efika MX's GPU being weaksauce. Not what I'd call a better deal at all, and that's not even getting into the fact that the Pi team are making all the documentation they can available, while Genesi doesn't really have any interest in hobbyist hackers at all.
The Genesi unit is aimed at developing nations not the hobbyist market so it is understandable they have no interest in the hobbyist market. The Genesi unit is a complete computer inside a case, the price is reasonable when taking this into account. Nevertheless they are sold out of the A8 unit forever, a new A9 unit will be coming out in the next little bit for approximately the same price.
As a general usage computer the new unit will easily spank the Pi & Via offerings due to the nature of the improved A9 chip. Whether or not the graphics chip is up to par on the new unit will be as good as the Pi's is another matter, but with it being designed to run a Linux distro optimized for schools in developing nations it is likely the video chip is an afterthought.
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The Genesi unit is aimed at developing nations not the hobbyist market so it is understandable they have no interest in the hobbyist market. The Genesi unit is a complete computer inside a case, the price is reasonable when taking this into account. Nevertheless they are sold out of the A8 unit forever, a new A9 unit will be coming out in the next little bit for approximately the same price.
As a general usage computer the new unit will easily spank the Pi & Via offerings due to the nature of the improved A9 chip. Whether or not the graphics chip is up to par on the new unit will be as good as the Pi's is another matter, but with it being designed to run a Linux distro optimized for schools in developing nations it is likely the video chip is an afterthought.
Perhaps you've got a point, the Genesi machine may be aimed at the third world. If so, its not aimed well. A laptop with an integrated display makes more sense. I can buy an Intel Atom based laptop for about what the Genesi system would cost when a basic monitor, keyboard, and mouse are incorporated. And, instead of running Linux, I can run Windows.
And, for us in the hobbyist market, leave it to Genesi to move from the A8 to the A9 as the market prepares to move from the A9 to the A15.
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Perhaps you've got a point, the Genesi machine may be aimed at the third world. If so, its not aimed well. A laptop with an integrated display makes more sense. I can buy an Intel Atom based laptop for about what the Genesi system would cost when a basic monitor, keyboard, and mouse are incorporated. And, instead of running Linux, I can run Windows.
And, for us in the hobbyist market, leave it to Genesi to move from the A8 to the A9 as the market prepares to move from the A9 to the A15.
Genesi also sells the board inside a laptop. They charge $199 for the laptop, though I am sure they sell it in quantity to gov't's for cheaper. I highly doubt they sell more than a hundred units (if that) off their website every year.
As far as I know the i.MX 5 series boards are already in production and after a bit will be for sale on their site for retail customers to buy. Though perhaps not as I believe they only sell leftovers from production runs online. I may be wrong though.
I think they are more going for fair performance with low power consumption as there are many places on earth without a reliable power grid.
As for selling the units without a monitor vs with a monitor. What exactly do you think happened to all those CRT monitor's that North America threw away? The tubes are re-manufactured into new monitor's and TV's. Somewhere in a developing nation they are playing an All-In-One Nintendo 1001-in-one SuperJoy III on a 1084 monitor tube. Anyways there is likely not a large shortage of cheap CRT monitors for these cheap computers to be plugged into.
I am fascinated by low end electronics, which is why I must budget not to spend more than a couple of hundred dollars on dealextreme each month. Though sometimes I cannot resist the lure... and consequently my home looks like a Chinese swap meet at times. Luckily my children break the stuff pretty quickly so I can new and improved cheap junk to play with....
I'm just ranting now... and I have to work in the morning.
doh.
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Low end electronics, GO: http://1saleaday.com/
Lowest price I've seen on a color tablet, I bet these sell out.
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Not what I'd call a better deal at all, and that's not even getting into the fact that the Pi team are making all the documentation they can available, while Genesi doesn't really have any interest in hobbyist hackers at all.
Genesi operates an online platform for technology enthusiasts and hobby as well as professional developers at http://www.powerdeveloper.org
The company has given away hundreds of development systems to hobby developers over the years and continues to support operating system distributions such as Crux, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, openSuSE and Ubuntu.
Furthermore, Genesi has contributed several thousand (US) dollars to AROS-related Power2People bounties so far.
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Low end electronics, GO: http://1saleaday.com/
Lowest price I've seen on a color tablet, I bet these sell out.
Still an ARM11, but the price is great.
Wish I had some spare change for one of these.
Thanks tone.
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Genesi operates an online platform for technology enthusiasts and hobby as well as professional developers at http://www.powerdeveloper.org
The company has given away hundreds of development systems to hobby developers over the years and continues to support operating system distributions such as Crux, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, openSuSE and Ubuntu.
Furthermore, Genesi has contributed several thousand (US) dollars to AROS-related Power2People bounties so far.
Was un-aware of this. Looks like Genesi is pretty awesome. I will be purchasing the new Efika MX when it goes on sale. Maybe now I will get 2.
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Low end electronics, GO: http://1saleaday.com/
Lowest price I've seen on a color tablet, I bet these sell out.
Thanks for this site, I will now be throwing money at my screen to get the cheap junk. :P
Maybe I need some helicopters too.
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Thanks for this site, I will now be throwing money at my screen to get the cheap junk. :P
Maybe I need some helicopters too.
Very Woot-ish, though I've been on Woot far longer I've made many more purchases on 1saleaday.
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Personally, I like some of the "cheap junk' I've bought over the years.
Thanks tone.
The EfikaMX could be interesting if upgraded to an A9, but for higher end ARM I'm still looking toward the A15.
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Genesi operates an online platform for technology enthusiasts and hobby as well as professional developers at http://www.powerdeveloper.org
The company has given away hundreds of development systems to hobby developers over the years and continues to support operating system distributions such as Crux, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, openSuSE and Ubuntu.
Furthermore, Genesi has contributed several thousand (US) dollars to AROS-related Power2People bounties so far.
Any one do the benchmarks for the EFIKA-MX? I would like to see the link between that and the SAMs' benchmarks.
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Personally, I like some of the "cheap junk' I've bought over the years.
Thanks tone.
The EfikaMX could be interesting if upgraded to an A9, but for higher end ARM I'm still looking toward the A15.
Cheap junk is my favourite kind. If I find something "cheap" that works as advertised it makes me so happy.
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I like checking out the stuff on dealextreme, but I don't order much at all. Maybe if they still sold ninja weapons...
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Any one do the benchmarks for the EFIKA-MX? I would like to see the link between that and the SAMs' benchmarks.
I am still using the old Ubuntu base system... well i got rid of some unneeded services. As soon AROS works on ARMhf (again genesis efforts: http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13609)
I will swith to debian ARMhf which gives roughly 40% better performance (in some theoretical tests up to 400%)
Support by Genesi is awesome, product quality is very high.
Linux support is nearly perfect.
So i could do benchmarks but they wouldn't show the reality since i am running a outdated core which isn't supporting NEON (like altivec), isn't ARMhf and isn't supporting the 3D chip.
New builds are supporting the HW better and so you will gain more Speed from CPU heavy task and a lot more speed by the supported 3D Hardware.
Here are two clips showing AROS on the efika MX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYbhvnpM5JY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJrqsVswSpA
I am curios... could you direct me too some SAM benchmarks? I could try it first on my (slow base) Linux setup on the Efika...
HTML5 and Flash is possible on it.
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(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9349609/Screenshot.png)
Running on armel build of Broaway X... so the slowest possible yet : p
so if a armhf build can bring upto 40% more speed it is definetly faster than a SAM440 with 800Mhz...
see:
http://wap.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=35671&forum=34&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0#663772
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Any one do the benchmarks for the EFIKA-MX? I would like to see the link between that and the SAMs' benchmarks.
There are many ways you can benchmark things, and here is one:
http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7675&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&start=164
Please note that Andreas "scaled" the Sam's results to 800MHz, meaning that their real numbers are much lower. Also, I am pretty certain that HW FPU wasn't used on the Efika MX...
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There are many ways you can benchmark things, and here is one:
http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7675&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&start=164
Please note that Andreas "scaled" the Sam's results to 800MHz, meaning that their real numbers are much lower. Also, I am pretty certain that HW FPU wasn't used on the Efika MX...
Surprisingly good results.
The A9 should be significantly better.
Running AROS, eh?
Is there any chance we'll see a native/not hosted variant?
you guys almost have me convinced.
BTW - takemehome grandma, you're now quoting Andreas?!
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Who made AROS x64 port.... Michal Schulz.
Who made ARM hosted port.... Michal Schulz.
Who is working as Senior Software Engineer for Genesi... Michal Schulz..
How are the chances of native AROS version for a Genesi device... quite high : )
But to be honest it would be more rational from Genesi to target their successor system..
On the other hand... hosted is nice:
http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=16380
And one needs to do a first start (so hosted is more than ok) in order to get some native AROS ARM applications.
Whatever... we need a ARMhf* port of AROS for ARM (hosted) to be able to use many more systems and start porting apps and games. In the meanwhile we can launch linux stuff from the AROS side..
*armhf is roughly 40% faster than armel code... existing AROS hosted for ARM Linux is armel code.
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I'm curious, how well would the hosted version do on something as lowly as an ARM11?
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Don't know.. maybe Stephen (he started the AROS for Pi idea) can tell this.
AROS will work better than Linux except in cases it runs out of memory or whenever linux can use the 3D HW.
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BTW - takemehome grandma, you're now quoting Andreas?!
Why wouldn't I?
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Why wouldn't I?
Its not like you two always see eye to eye.
I, myself, have learned not to argue with the guy. He's usually right (and he'd probably take offense to the qualifier "usually").