Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Framiga on January 16, 2004, 10:26:59 AM
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Hi all the involved user,
this morning, Ron van Herk (aka Palpatine here on Amiga.org), has replyed to me for an update about the well known DCE saga.
Dellert isn't "reachable" ATM, so NO NEWS again.
Ron, will go to DCE the next week.
I don't know you . . .but i'm very, very, very tired, disappointed and . . . . :-(
Cheers
PS- for the full story, go to Cyberstorm sent to DCE for repair (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2633)
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This entire DCE things has to be one of the worst fiasco's there has ever been in the amiga scene. If I had a card that had been lost at DCE for years and I only just got it back I would not be inclined to thank anyone... I would just be glad I had it back, and I would never send anything near DCE ever again. Fortunatly for me when I wanted to send a broken BPPC card to DCE they never replied to my emails so I didnt bother. I say that was a lucky escape.
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ryu: well put it like this , i wont ever shop at DCE again... EVER! , i wont touch any new hw they make ever.. :)
anyway i love my bppc but if it die, then i wont send it to them....
cheers
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Basicly the way I look at it is like this: We are a low on the DCE list of things to get done. They dont care at all about this issue. I bought a used Phase5 one (a slower one then I had before) to get me by. This has cost me $500 I should not have needed to spend. I wanted to at least be able to get used to using it again and be ready for Os4/MOS if it came out for us. Ron has done some great work for us, but Dellert at DCE is a joke. I just cant see how a company like that can stay in business.
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lempkee wrote:
i wont touch any new hw they make ever.. :)
Are DCE still producing products for the Amiga market? I thought they left some time ago, and the cyberstorms (licensed from P5) was their last products?
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There are some things that i can't understand:
- Why FrAmiga gas got response (congratulations) from Ron and why i do not have any. I write correct Ron's mail.
- Why i do not have feed back from Ron whether he got my card. I sent to an address and it has not been returned. It's suppossed to reach Ron's hands but i am not sure. I sent 20-10-03. As i sent it, i knew that i had to wait, no matter the time i expect, but i am serious at getting to know if my card is alive.
- How many people are waiting? What about creating a web, AKA "help desk" with open cases, updates (i.e. Emilio's card is waiting a PPC from provider. it will come in 2 weeks) and so on. Of course there must be a compromise from DCE. It would show the seriousness of this company, giving an efecctive answer to every user.
- any more ideas?
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hi takemehomegrandma
the short answer in . .no more.
The latest Amiga related product, was the G-Rex.
Ciao
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by puppy on 2004/1/16 16:38:41
There are some things that i can't understand:
- Why FrAmiga gas got response (congratulations) from Ron and why i do not have any. I write correct Ron's mail.
. . . with a lot much patience, time to lose and last but not least . . . education :-)
Ciao
PS- it is a pity, that this same behavior, hasn't helped me with Vesalia too.
I've ordered (COD) an item at 03 Dec-2003 and i haven't received it yet.
After the Vesalia's confirmation mail . . . the dark!
No answer to my quite 10 "info request" mails.
. . . but i'm not so much surprised . . . .after all Vesalia is a DCE partnership as well :-D
EDIT- by the way, in order to confirm the seriousness of the Vesalia society, they SELL (not pre-order . . . SELL) already from some months Amiga OS4 for CSPPC and BlizzardPPC (http://www.vesalia.de/?V02b0f1555534511755856515209514e01101f0954414752050140090a1e31115579633a223c6373744e03263f2a2a7661053967606727607b657b7c206d31267159484c551b4062565a025a5d16747c0e422f60070445184e11227050565f1e1972626d252f6e6279243c6d743) as well :-(
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Hi,
Like Franco said, no news yet until next week.
@Puppy
I got your card but not your mail. Once DCE is able to fix it it will be repaired, until that time I am keeping it here in Rotterdam and not in Oberhausen. Every time I am at DCE I try to get repairs that I bring with me done at the spot. If not possible, I take them back (just to be sure nothing gets *lost*) ;-)
Cheers
Ron
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Ron:
Many thanks for your words! i'll keep patient.
(You can contact me through amiga.org, anyway i have mailed many times from @terra.es)
I do know you are helping us!
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Hi Ron,
Thanks for all. And let me hope they could fix my board. It is now 10 month at DCE :pissed:.
Markus
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
lempkee wrote:
i wont touch any new hw they make ever.. :)
Are DCE still producing products for the Amiga market? I thought they left some time ago, and the cyberstorms (licensed from P5) was their last products?
Don't DCE still produce the Pegasos (I + II) boards?
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@hnl
Still? No, I believe bplan/Genesi are still producing the boards (using DCE's facilities).
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A shame Genesi haven't got other places to get the Peg2 produced, really hate to see people that buy it indirectly support DCE.
One of the big reasons that I don't own a Pegasos!
Mr. Dellert not reachable... Typical lies from DCE!
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Hi Ron,
are you going to DCE within this week?
Let we know . . . please :-)
Ciao
Franco C.
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Ron,
Could you please check if my board is there? Perhaps the entire repair status of it at this time? I've been trying to get this confirmation from you for months now. Check your private messages for more details on my serial #, etc.
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(http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/Amiga/dcebuilding.jpg)
This is where DCE is... :)
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So that's the world's first and only Golf made entirely out of CyberstormPPC cards! ;-)
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Im just wondering,how do so many ppc boards become dead?I have a seen a lot of ppl selling broke ones ....
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The PPC chip is way too sensitive. Slight pressure could damage it. I'm serious! You have to treat this card like an egg.
A lot of people received CSPPC cards brand new from Phase 5 and DCE and reported them being DOA simply due to clumsy installations, such as pressing down on the heatsink to make the board secure in the CPU fast slot. Of course, no one was told to watch out for this so the users didn't know. When you install the card you actually are tempted to do it in order to easily fit it in, as it is a perfect pressure point, but you shouldnt...
This was not always true for defective cards, as also indeed a lot were simply dead on arrival, such as DCE made batches.
A lot of cards had bad cooling fans over the PPC heatsink which either didn't provide enough cooling or they simply died after a few weeks of usage and afterwards the PPC chip overheated constantly and killed the card. This is hard to notice as most of us keep our desktop cases closed and cannot directly spot a non-functioning fan.
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Hi Ron,
I am just wondering if it would be useful, we patient users, obtain a PPC chip and we send it to you, so that DCE can repair without having to pay in advance, for us, and without having to wait the pieces. There're lots of 180, 200 mhz Mac PPC chips in eBay.
Worst side is, that it is a double effort, having to deattach the chip and reball it on the socket.
¡Saludos!
¡but i think it is the best, quick and cheapest solution!
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AFAIK DCE isn`t doing any business for Amiga anymore. If there are any PPC-cards repaired it is only done out of a feelig of obligation in the freetime.
I guess the only reason why they don`t say "get lost" straight away, is that they are in fact the only one who could repair those cards.
When my first CSPPC died I was quite frustrated but I neved had the idea of sending it in for repair and that was 2 years ago.
I though everyone was aware of the fact that the chances of getting your card fixed in a reasonable time (< 1 year) if you don`t show up at DCE in person are slim at best.
I heard quite often that whoever visits DCE to have it`s card fixed walked out of the door a few hours later with the job done.
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Hi all,
still no answer here.
Bye!
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Hi puppy,
sorry but desoldering a PPC chip to reuse it, is quite impossible and uneconomical from a commercial and technical POV.
The real problem NOW, is the impossibility to contact DCE directly.
Without the help of Genesi (as BB&RV-Ron van Herk), we haven't any chance to obtain anything.
At the beginnings of this long double thread, me and therefore VirtualWorks as official owner of the DOA boards, we have contacted 2 lawyers and the "Association of consumers" here in Italy.
The answer (after to have paid also for the single advising), was ever the same:
"yes it is possible, no problems but . . . ."
"International lawsuit". . . were the recurrent words . . . .and all this should costs us, money again (i wish to specify, than VirtualWorks is a small Company and that 6000,00 Euro of various DCE items, are not a "joke" for them . . .without mention his involved customers, like me)
Then, one day BB%RV was offered theyrs help through Ron van Herk (see the other thread as reference) and i onestly still think, that is our best chance ATM.
See for reference:
this thread
First answer by BB&RV, about DCE repairs (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2633)
and this NEWS
Report on DCE Repairs (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44908)
Ciao
PS- today Ron (aka Palpatine), has answer me that he don't know if he will go to DCE within this week and that will post here an update.
PPS- and more the above mentioned situation, some users that has received theyr DCE boards (repaired and not isn't important at this point), with the help of Genesi, they hasn't said "thanks for the help . . .BB, Ron" as well. . . and IMHO, this behaviour, will not help nobody to catch up the hoped good aim.
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Hi Lemmink
I heard quite often that whoever visits DCE to have it`s card fixed walked out of the door a few hours later with the job done.
all the above, was true until year 2000 or so (don't know it due the Y2K bug :roll: )
But now we are in 2004 and a lot of things are changed. . . . .and then . . try to say to Acill (from S.Diego Ca.) or to Dragster (from Mexico), to go for a walk to Oberhausen!!
mhhh!!! an expensive travel IMHO :-)
Ciao
PS- anyway thanks for the suggestion that IIRC, you have already done time ago.
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Hi
Ron . . .BB&RV . . . Genesi . . .AirForceOne . . . FBI . . . please HELP !!!! an update from DCE!!
Cheers :-)
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. . . .and another week is gone :-(
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Franco,
Like I told you in my email, I will post as soon as there is anything to post.
It is no use trying to break the longest thread record again, is there? ;-)
Cheers,
Ron
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Anxiously awaiting for the next update. :-)
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I Have been very polite until now, but now Im really pissed-off by the waitting.
I have a great 4k, grex, etc etc and I cant used it due it has no CPU card. :-x
No news from Ron here nor personal email.
This only does affect me but the rest of amigans because I cant develop anything util for oue machines :-?
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This is indeed the worst fiasco in computer history!! Can anyone else name one this bad? And I thought my CSPPC card was slow in 2001. It is 2004 now and DCE still has it!!! Unbelievable!!! This May my card will be gone for 3 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I remember reading about DCE and Phase 5 in Amiga Active August 2000. They were interviewed IIRC.
Didn't know back then things would end up like this.
On the PPC issue, I've found that as years have gone by, Amiga products have lost their professionalism, reliability, and build quality Amiga was originally well established for.
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Hi all,
no news here . . . have you received an update or so, recently?
Ciao
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No news at all. :-(
Ron, what's going on at DCE? Any progress over there? Is there still hope for us?
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Sorry guys, no news at all right now. I can't get through to DCE by phone and there's no reply to email... Will keep on trying.
Cheers,
Ron
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Yeah well thats it then I am sure. They have started up on there old ways once more. I think its time for all of us to get something together for a lawer to take care of.
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Gav wrote:
Im just wondering,how do so many ppc boards become dead?I have a seen a lot of ppl selling broke ones ....
One reason is heat. They're heat-sensitive and needs a lot of cooling. I fried mine in a 4k desktop. Now i got my stuff in a tower.... without the PPC board. Guess where it is :-(
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This situation, fortunately, does not affect me...but surely something can be done to resolve this.
I cannot believe that after this length of time, that no-one has issued a writ against DCE...has anyone sought legal counsel at all?
How many of you guys have been affected by this...? And for how long..? And how much cash are you out of pocket...? And what kind of response has DCE made to resolve this situation amicably?
I have only recently got back to the Amiga, after a 2 year hiatus...in that time, I have used an Apple mac.
It seems if there something wrongly advertised with Apple, be it iPod battery life, useability of Mac OSX on a G3 powerbook to name 2 very recent examples...the lawyers get called in (I am aware it is all USA based, but still...)
Couldn't you guys get together with a legal guy (isn't the non-coder startup guy from Hyperion versed in Law?...i may have got that wrong...) and get some legal representation and get this resolved...either some compensation, or to give DCE a kick up the a*!$ to get the boards fixed...
Just my thought...if this has been suggested before, do a DCE and ignore me...
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Hi Rob72,
i've contacted DCE again too but with no answer.
I've done, in the last few months, a lot of search (in a official way and not), to understand exactly, who owns DCE ATM.
I went through the European Katast but i've only had, a partial answer.
Now i have a question for you ALL (involved people and not).
Who is/are the DCE owner ATM?
It is only a simple question and NOT a statement.
Cheers
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. . . .so guys, have you fear of giving one simple opinion?
It is only a simple question.
Free opinion, not statements.
Ciao
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I was thinking maybe we should set up a web site with all the users that are out of a PPC card at DCE so everyone can see how many of us are out there! This is rediculous!
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Yesteday I got mail
They will repair my card. So they found it
Sorry its in German. But they write, that they will repair my card and asked about the procedure of paying the costs.
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Hallo Herr Bieler,
es handelt sich um die Reparatur Ihrer CyberStorm Karte die nun
endlich durchgeführt werden kann. Die Reparaturkosten belaufen sich auf
150 Euro zuzügl. 39 Euro Versand durch UPS. Zur Abwicklung der Reparaturkosten
möchte ich Sie bitten sich mit uns in Verbindung zu setzen.
MfG
Michael Steinicke
michael.steinicke@dce.de
DCE Computer Service GmbH
Kellenbergstr. 19a
D-46145 Oberhausen
Tel. +49208660673
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Hi Markus_Bieler,
thanks for the infos.
Have you contacted those email address in German language?
So it is "michael.steinicke@dce.de" and no more @dcecom.de?
Cheers
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I checked my mials now, and I got a pdf. file atached with the details about paying.
It is:
http://www.dce.de and fertigung@dce.de
They will repair my card. It has a faulty logicchip (?) and they reworked the CPU-Socket. Plus the change the CPU-Fan with a another one.
They mentiond in bold letters. "At installing Never pres onto the CPU-Chips."
If you like I sent you the pdf-file, but its in German.
Markus
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Hi Markus_Bieler,
on the site the email address for the Amiga product is :
Informationen zu den Amiga Produkten:
michael.steinicke@dcecom.de
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In the mail it is this e-mail address,
michael.steinicke@dce.de
. but I replied to:
(privat E-Mail removed by poster) as I didn't check the address I just pressed reply.
Makus
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It seems that both (@dcecom.de and @dce.de) are valid. DCE just got the domain dce.de. back.
www.dce.de is valid and reachable.
Markus
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Hi Markus_Bieler,
i've just contacted him to:
michael.steinicke@onlinehome.de
and
michael.steinicke@dce.de
We will see
Thanks again
EDIT- yes, right . . . the domain is the same.
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Hi Markus_Bieler,
what is those banner??
a joke? . . .nice, just checked the site :-)
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http://www.danasoft.com/
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sorry but . . . .is those IP your IP address?
Ciao
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No it should be yours. :-D
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Hi TjLaZer,
i suggested so, and Ron reported me that
"I have something like this that we use for internal use. But the thing is that we are really looking towards the end of the affair, it's near a final solution at last. To do somehting like this now, would be wasting precious time".
by the other hand, last week i plead Ron to bring my card back, no answer, no hope? i expect that he hasn't sent me it because it is being repaired. i needed to access my files :cry: quickly
please Ron, answer me ! :boohoo:
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I got an email from Ron today and he still has not been able to reach anyone at DCE. The last update I got from him was that all the parts for those of us getting new cards made came in and they should be completed soon. That was over a month ago. I would think they should have been done if DCE even started them. Who knows what they are doing now.
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Hi Acill,
"quite" the same here.
But . . . if at DCE lives only ghosts
ATM, who is those employee that has answered to the Markus_Bieler's mail?
@ Ron (Palpatine). . .PLEASE . . .can you try to contact
Michael Steinicke
michael.steinicke@dce.de
michael.steinicke@dcecom.de
michael.steinicke@onlinehome.de
Markus_Biele has received a reply from Michael Steinicke . . . please, Ron :-)
Cheers
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Hi,
i'm replying to myself . . .need i a doc? YESS i know :-)
So, even Ron has as referring to DCE, Michael Steinicke.
The only "little" problem, is that those DCE employee doesnt answer to the Ron's mail too (as Genesi).
Just received an answer from Ron . . . .no reply from DCE even if Ron is a Genesi employee that is attempting to contact his manufacter!!!!!
Definitely, no words at all.
Thanks anyway, Ron.
Ciao
EDIT.
At this point . . . Ron excuse me but I cannot resist in asking to you:
are you still a Genesi employee?
Pay attention, Ron . . .this isn't an "attack" to you personally but only to know if we can still consider you, our referring about this matter or definitely not.
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To tell you the truth I dont think we will ever see those new cards Framiga. Thats why I traded my Powerbook for the used Phase5 one I am now using. It was a stupid trade on my part, but I wanted to be ready for OS4 and I figured I would never see my card back from DCE again. If I do not hear anything back by the end of next month I am gooing to start a petition from users here that lost cards to them and then contact legal aid for action against DCE. Then have THOUSANDS of dollars worh of product that they stole as I can see it.
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Hi,
someone else, has received an answer from DCE?
Dellert or the other employee Michael Steinicke?
Here . . .nothing :-(
Ciao
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. . . no reply here :pissed:
Ciao
OT- Addio Marco, ci mancherai
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Nothing at all came back to me when I wrote him. I expect we will hear nothing all we have become used to these days. I have set a date of March first. After that I have talked to a lawer about what I can do. He told me if we all get together and tell the story, show this thread and the other as proof we have a good chance at winning a case against DCE. His services will not be to bad, and no fee will be charged if we loose.
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Hi Acill,
if nothing will happen within your established date (March first), we are with you too.
At this point, no other way.
Cheers
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Hi Acill,
have you got an answer from Michael Steinicke?
Here NO ANSWER from nobody :-(
IMPORTANT NOTICE
don't send mails to:
michael.steinicke@onlinehome.de
due it is a PRIVATE email address.
Use instead:
michael.steinicke@dce.de
Ciao
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I can see why you all are so angry and upset, but I can follow you when you talk abot legal actions ? What's the point ? Where is the difference between a card you will never see again (or at least for a very long time) and a card tha is right in front of you but dead ?
DCE isn't exactly swimming in money and those repares are only done when they have a little sparetime and even then it will only one person takeing a look at say one or two cards. I have a dead 060/200 myselfe. I would never dream of sending it in for repair, as I wouldn't expect to see it back before 1 year, if ever.
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The point is some of us bought NEW cards and they never worked at all. They were sent in for warrenty repairs and just kept. DCE said they would build new cards for those of us that had a warrenty claim and it would take four weeks. That was over 3 months ago now. My card alone had been at DCE for over two years now. When Ron went to DCE to help us out they found the cards all put away out of sight and basicly they had no clue as to where they all were. I paid $875 for my card when it was new. Thats just me. Think of all the others that should have working cards still under the warrenty period. Thats a lot of money DCE made and just kept. Its wrong and should not be allowed to get away with. If they do it, then why not others. Its companies like this that hurt the reputation of Amiga and I for one will not let someone take me as a sucker or be taken advantage of. So like I sad as of the first of March I start legal action against them.
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@ Lemmink
?!?
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what is missing in all this, is communication. There's a lack of it between users and users (how many we are?), and DCE and users.
why don't we create a webpage so that we can realise about the state of the situation.
We can put our serial and then DCE can display status of the board, expected repairing time. Maybe we can just learn that if we are hundreds or thousand people, we can all cooperate buying in advance the micros so that DCE hadn't to pay for us to the provider (i think that is the REAL question)
Anyone willing to be a webmaster? what about amiga.org help? :-)
SERIAL OWNER STATUS EXPECTED TIME
------ ----- ------ -------------
xxxxxx puppy expecting micro from prov 01-03-04
TOTAL: 1.201 users ;-)
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Building a web page would be a great idea and was even mentioned before. The problem is DCE. They dont answer the phoen or take calls. They do not reply to emails or even snail mail requests. As far as I can see even Ron isnt getting any information back from them now. What would make you think they would be willing to even update a web page when they cant even take the time to reply to an email about the subject?!
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The point is some of us bought NEW cards and they never worked at all. They were sent in for warrenty repairs and just kept. DCE said they would build new cards for those of us that had a warrenty claim and it would take four weeks.
Well that is another story. I though you were all upset about the repair of some old cards takeing a hell of a long time.
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dce is DCE , they will never send your cards back..
please stop this ludicrus discussion! , its beginning to annoy me again..
seriously if they wanted to resolve this then they would have sent you the cards allready, sorry for the negativity framiga and others but its time to give up..
i did anyway, long time ago...
:-(
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Ron said that DCE would start repairing the cards after receiving 604e chips. He also confirmed that DCE received 68k sockets, but it's been months since that post, and no news afterwards whatsoever.
Ron, can you please post an update? Were you able to get in touch with DCE? Were you able to go to DCE directly by any chance? Will you go to DCE some time soon? What is your estimate on some upcoming new developments on this issue?
Thanks.
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Ron,
Also please don't forget that you are our only hope. We really need your help. I know that you are busy and don't have too much time to invest at helping out some bunch of strangers from all over the world getting their cards back, but please, and I think I speak for all of us here, try it your best at resolving this long and painful issue.
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Hi Guys,
Since the last update I did not get through to Mr. Dellert to ask about the repairs. All I know is that he confirmed to me that the parts were there to build a small batch to take care of the oldest repair stuff, among which would be the boards for Framiga. For the other boards, more 604s were ordered but had not gotten in yet.
This first batch was to be done in january but obviously has not. My *guess* is that they are waiting for more 604s to come in and do everything at once. This would not have been my choice but it's not for me to decide. However, this is just a guess. I have not been told anything about this.
I have to go to DCE soon for other reasons and then will try to figure out more. This will be somewhere in the next two weeks, depending on some circumstances.
I will try to get it all solved any which way I can, I have committed to this. But some walls are hard to climb without tools...
Cheers,
Ron
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Hi Ron,
thanks for the reply
Cheers
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Hi Ron
Thank you for let us be informed.
Best Regards
-Frank B
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:-D :pint:
I got mine back from DCE. The card is fully working. I run a test now for 24h without asny problems.
So:
:-D :pint:
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Hi Markus,
well, i'm happy for you .-)
Ciao
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. . . . mhhh!!! seems that Amiga Repair Service at DCE, works now . . . will it be for all us? :roll:
Ciao
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Framiga wrote:
. . . . mhhh!!! seems that Amiga Repair Service at DCE, works now . . . will it be for all us?
I hope so. I have just here my fully loaded (as americans say :) ) 4K without ANY CPY card.
Its a sad situation.
Best Regards
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Hello!
Nice to see that people are starting to get cards back. I have a cyberstorm 604/060 which has only worked a few times the last year.
I'm planning to send it for repairs, thought I'd send it to Timothy/Hyperion. Anyone had their card repaired there?
Someone said they send it to AMIGA CENTER in france, anyone had any experience with them?
I was also told I could contact ron or palpatine here for repairs, is that true?
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strife:
I sent mine to Hyperion but they just can manage to fix 680x0 or some other chips but not the PPC, so Timothy returned it.
Then i emailed Bill and Raquel and they forwarded me to Ron. He kindly got my card and it seems it is going by the right way to DCE.
Amiga France, mr Boulet firstly told me he couldn't fix it but later, he told me he could. I think he referred to 68k and resistors and so on ... He fixed me my A4000T and was very kind and communicative.
I do know 2 bussiness in Madrid, that do BGA works, they cost 150 € but they don't get micros. One of both uses security for poerforming operations, but is more expensive.
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Hi Dudes
I was asking myself how many broken PPC cards are DCE or Phase 5.
Mine is a Phase 5 CSPPC 060. It was so cute :-(
What company made yours?
Regards
Frank B.
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by Acill on 2004/2/15 0:29:57
Nothing at all came back to me when I wrote him. I expect we will hear nothing all we have become used to these days. I have set a date of March first. After that I have talked to a lawer about what I can do. He told me if we all get together and tell the story, show this thread and the other as proof we have a good chance at winning a case against DCE. His services will not be to bad, and no fee will be charged if we loose.
as already said, we (or better me, as VirtualWorks "ambassador") agree with your idea.
Ron has done all what he could make but . . . noone is still reacheable at DCE. (by phone, by mail and on place too)
Acill, tell us what we can do.
More people, less money to spend with the lawyer.
The best choise, should be to find a lawyer in Germany or if your lawyer is a friend of yours, ask him to contact one in Germany.
We can collect:
- how much boards (SN-Model-receipt)
- shipment date and ticket
Guys . . . soon or someday, we will see our board on EBay ;-)
Let we know.
Cheers
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Well I got word back from my lawer friend. He was all for the case and was going to do it for free if we didnt win and take 10% if we won. He ran into a problem and from here nothing can be done. Since the case would involve so many clients from so many countries its a legal nightmare he said. A Class action case would have to be filed in each country that someone is living in thats involved. This would cost thousands of dollars alone. I dont have that to spend on a $850 card myself.
The other solution is to get a lawer in Germany to sue on our behalf in a German court. This will be much more simple of a case and would not require anything filed in any other place but Germany! I dont know anyone in Germany so I can so nothing other then ask for some gelp here. I know a few Germans are on this site. Any of you want to look into it?
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Hi Acill,
exactly the same situation here (even if in EU).
The lawsuit (yes a lawsuit, because a simple letter from the lawyer, will be used by Dellert, like toilette paper) MUST start from Germany.
Is there an involved user who lives in Germany?
Cheers
-
I've contacted a few law firms in Germany and I am waiting for a reply. I would ask that a person in Germany do the same. It would be nice if they could print this thread and the other one out and take it to them. Most should look at it for free and decide if its a good case or not. I dont see how we could loose with all the proof. Maybe even Genesee will get in so they can make sure the production of the Pegasos isnt held up because of it?
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Hi Acill,
ok welldone.
Anyway, forget Genesi . . . .they have other "problems" ATM.
Can you post the layout of the mail sent to the German police for reference?
Cheers
-
got a reply from the German police. Here it is in german:
RE: Problem with a company there in Germany named DCE
Sehr geehrter Herr Rezendes ,
ihre E-Mail wurde an die Polizei in Oberhausen mit der Bitte um zügige Bearbeitung weitergeleitet.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Guido Karl
Internetportal der Polizei NRW
Innenministerium
Haroldstraße 5
40213 Düsseldorf
Telefon: 0211-871-3236
Fax: 0211-871-16-3236
E-Mail: info@polizei.nrw.de
From the German I know it looks like they have forwarded my email to the Police in Oberhausen and asked them to follow up on it quicky. The subject I used is at the top too Framiga.
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I'm not too sure if law enforcement agencies like it when you paste their emails on a public forum.....:-).
-
I got that email off a public web portal they have so its okay I am sure.
-
OK, thanks Acill :-)
@odin
thanks to you too . . . for your useful comment.
-
Wasn't trying to put you down or anything. Just ment as constructive criticism.
I apologize should I have offended anyone.
-
no problem :-)
Ciao
-
Good news! The case has been turned over to the public prosecuter in the town near DCE!! Here is the email I got back from them below. Please reply to them using this case number if you need to. MSG me and I will pass his email on to you.
Re: Company named DCE in Oberhausen
Dear Mr. Rezendes,
we have got your report, thank your for your informations. Please notice, that the file number of Krimalpolizei Oberhausen is 508Z00-001162-04/9. In case of eMails always notify this number.
We will check your report an give it to the public prosecutor office of Duisburg. I think, you will get new informations afterwards.
Yours sincerely
Manfred Vomschloss
criminal police
kk21
Friedensplatz 2-5
D-46045 Oberhausen
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Hi,
I must say that I am very sorry that it all had to come to this. :-(
Cheers,
Ron
-
Well, people get fed up with waiting at a certain time. I hope justice will finally be done in this neverending messy story.
-
hi Acill,
perfect.
So now i'll mail you in private.
Thanks for the help
Ciao
-
Palpatine wrote:
Hi,
I must say that I am very sorry that it all had to come to this. :-(
Cheers,
Ron
Hey Ron I just hope you are not mad at me, but I feel DCE has been just telling you want they think we all want to hear. I just want an end to it all.
-
@Acill
Not mad at all, just sad. As for DCE, there were quite a number of people whom I have been able to help, so I'm glad that some cases have been solved...
Cheers,
Ron
-
Ron I am glad you were able to help some people. I just hope they took the time to thank you for all the hard work you did for them. I sure am, even if it still came to this. It still sadens me that a company can get away with treating its customers in this way and be in business still at the same time.
-
Ron,
This doesn't mean that you shouldn't try and help some more people. :-)
I'm still wondering about the status of my card. :-?
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hi x56h34,
with all the respect, x56h34 . . . but why the hell, Ron should help "some" of us and not others?
Ron ATM and IMHO is in the same situation of us.
Dellert, those *#*#§*. . . . GRRR!!!! DOESN'T answer to him too!!!
Ron has done all the possible for us (beleive me).
Follow the Acill's suggestion and write to the Oberhausen Police.
No other way.
Ciao
-
Well, my card only recently got there, so am I really eligible to call the police yet?
Also, where do I start? :-) Both Vesalia (bought the DOA card from them) and DCE are ignoring my e-mails. Maybe I should call the police on Vesalia instead.
EDIT: Oh yes and Framiga, I suggest a course in English language since many times you've misunderstood poster's comments and replied with total garbage and misinformation. Read my post again and pay attention to the "some more people" part.
-
Hi x56h34
i agre with you about the course of Engish language (like many other user here and there even of mother language) but i wished only to say that Ron, ATM isn't be able to contact nobody at DCE (even going personally to Oberhausen!!!).
Your situation, is even worse than ours, due the fact of Vesalia (DCE official partnership).
Ron (as Genesi employee) can't do nothing . . . no more.
So the ways ATM are:
contact Michael Steinicke
michael.steinicke@dce.de
OR
Vesalia?!? mhhh . . . hard to do
OR
the German Police like suggested by Acill
Onestly, i don't see any alternative way.
Ciao
PS- by the way, i don't know how old are you (and onestly i don't care) but to make criticism about my grammar/reading errors, is not an educated and adult behaviour IMHO.
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I'm sorry if I offended you, but your response "why the hell, Ron should help "some" of us and not others?" was IMO rude and a misinterpretation of what I originally wrote.
-
Dont make this thread into an argument one. This is where we need to post any feedback from this case and also for others to get information from me so they can email the police. I am hoping this comes to a good ending soon. Maybe someone actually sedning the law after DCE for once will give them a much needed wake up call.
-
I really don't think that Ron should bother doing anything more about
this now ...
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that's right TMHGM, why should Ron waste his time on these guys who are daring to take a valued partner of BBRV to court? I mean I bet none of them have bought 4 pegasos! Peasants the lot of them!
K
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hi drk
. . . .sarcasm? ;-)
anyway, i would like to precise that Ron van Herk, isn't a mere BB&RV "slave".
Ron has an its own Company and first of ALL, he is a person (i hope for him . . . free).
I've NEVER thought not even for a second, that BB could have helped us in this matter (conflict of interest?!?).
. . but on Ron's help, like person and ComputerCity owner. yes.
The peoblem ATM (as i already said) is that really Ron can't reach nobody to DCE . . . seems quite impossible but it is.
Therefore, i thanks newly Ron for what he has made for us (1 board -a SCSI KIT- is come back to the owner thanks to Ron).
Cheers
-
@ drk
That post of yours was just so full of crap so I don't know why I am
bothering to answer it. No-one has been "taken to court" (and don't be
surprised if no-one will be either), you mention BBRV and the Pegasos
just to get them mentioned in conjunction to this mess, and you try to
make it look like I would in any way look down upon the people who has
these problems. That is simply not true! Your post was inflamatory and
perhaps you and your posts might belong better on Moo-bunny among the
other trolls?
My point was that Ron has really bent over backwards to solve this
situation in a constructive and creative way, not because he had to,
but because solving issues in good spirit is always better to everyone
involved than playing hard ball. And AFAIK he was doing fine. Progress
was being made, lots of people got their boards back and as far as I
understand a solution was coming up for those who still were left. But
then some people decided that solving issues "the Ron way", in good
spirit, was no longer possible, thus considereing Ron's effort to be a
failure and not the way to go. The time, resources and energy spent to
solve this situation was probably spent only to avoid exactly what now
has happened. That effort obviously failed, and the new contact in
this case is "Manfred Vomschloss", not Ron.
Another thing, this thread (and the other) has been going on non-stop
for a year now. And it seems like it's only mostly the same 2-4 people
that posts here. Amiga.org is an amiga community portal, and I would
like to raise the question if these threads really falls within the
scope of interest to the whole general community, or if it mostly
interests the people involved (which also should be fewer now than
before, thanks to Ron's effort)? Of course I understand that
not every thread is interesting to everyone, and they shouldn't
be either. I don't mind seeing threads here that are of no
interest to me, it's not that, but this has been going on for
*so darn long now* and only a few people seems to be interested
anyway. Perhaps you who are involved in this could set up some kind of
a private mailing list or a Yahoo "action" group or something instead,
and then come back to make an announcement about how things solved in
the end when it's all finished, so we all will know how things ended?
IMHO, that would be a nice thing to do ...
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@framiga
First of all I must apologise for getting involved in this thread. I hope you and all the rest of the guys who are affected have a satisfactory resolution to this. Also I recognise that Ron has done good work in trying to help.
@tmhg
You think my post is full of crap? Well I think exactly the same of your head. Your mindless cheerleading of BBRV as the new saviour of the amiga community just grates with me. BBRV has stated that he is proud that DCE is a valued partner of genesi. Given his monitoring of the fora, I doubt he is unaware of this thread, yet although he is in a position to do some thing about it, he remains silent.
Lets not beat about the bush, this community is haunted by liars thieves and idiots. There are also a majority of good guys though and in this latter group I rank bplan, morphos guys, OS4 team and grudgingly Eyetech. I applaud them.
I think this thread should be left exactly where it is until resolution is reached to the satisfaction of the guys who have been defrauded to date. It is, in fact, a vital element of Amiga News way above the importance of either AInc or BBRV marketing drivel. I suggest that unless you have information to counter the arguments of the guys who have been without their legally bought goods for too long, then keep your ignorant nose out of it. As I shall do. If you wish to pursue this further then by all means email me rather than pollute this valid thread any further.
K
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@takemahomegranma
"...and I would like to raise the question if these threads really falls within the scope of interest to the whole general community, or if it mostlyinterests the people involved (which also should be fewer now than..."
OF COURSE!!!
I want to know how my fellow Amigans are doing so that I will never send anythingn to DCE or support them by any means.
If I was in their situation and it was possible, I'd take these {bleep}s to court...FFS people have asked them to send back the cards without fixing them and that was what a year ago? more?
Please keep us up to date.
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I think this thread is vitally important to the community. I read it every time I see it popup on the front page, its interesting to follow the twists and turns of this battle.
And in your own words TMHG "Another thing, this thread (and the other) has been going on non-stop
for a year now"
Exactly, a whole year and more has passed and the situation still hasnt be resolved. In part it has, a hand full of people have got boards back, but a lot havent. So I dont blame them for talking about it here, so every one of us can follow and take note of just how DCE choose to treat its customers.
But in closing of this post I'd like to ask all of you to stop arguing about this petyness, this thread is about getting boards back and repaired noting else. If you want to continue the Genesi thing take it to another thread away from here.
-
You know I am the one that started it in a legal war now. I didnt want to do it. DCE had had my card in now for three years. Three! It was sent in for WARRENTY replacement or to be fixed. It should have been an open and shut case. When Ron came and said DCE is making a new batch to replace the warrenty ones. They were to be done no later then four months. Now its been a full year and they are eight monts over due. I think DCE has just made more excuses to cover there lack of interest in resolving this. They have even taken off the Amiga repair and products section from the DCE web site in case anyone hasent noticed. They see this and know exactly whats up. If your all trully tired of this thread then let me know and I will stop telling you whats going on. But the heck if I have any shame for what I have done. I know Ron did his best, but he was taken advantage of just like the rest of us. I would even say I am the first to even follow through with legal action against DCE. Maybe when the summons hits Dellerts hands he will get the wake up call he needs.
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Think I'll have to agre with Acill and Ryu, this is an important thread to keep alive.
I'm not one of those who got ripped off by DCE, but I'm interrested in the case and how it ends, just out of curiosity. TMHG, If this thread pesters you, it's just like on the TV, don't look, change channels. There are enough other threads to look at.
As for the thread itself, it's been going for a year and is still amazingly on-topic :lol: , a little bit unusual.
Something that would be interesting was to check out how many sent the board to DCE directly, and how many sent the board to resellers that actually owe DCE money, which I saw mentioned earlier.
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If your all trully tired of this thread then let me know and I will stop telling you whats going on
don't care Acill . . . i know it is difficult doesn't answer to the provocations but . . . i personally have started this and the other thread.
Me, you and many other, are still waiting from 3 years too.
So this thread is our and only a moderator or we (if necessary) could stop it and not the first that has been waked up with the wrong foot. ;-)
Ciao
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@ drk
I only read a couple of lines in your post, and it became clear that you are just a mindless troll. I rest my case there, and it was IMHO quite unnecessary of you to pollute this thread in the way you just did! :-(
@ José
Yes, OF COURSE I am interested in how this solves in the end too, that was not my point. It's that amiga.org gets flooded with IMO quite pointless comments like "No boards today", "no boards today either", "DCE really sucks today too", and so on. I don't mind this par se, but it has been going on for *so darn long* now, and all there is is void! How meaningful is that? *A YEAR* of comments, from the same people, saying the same thing! "Nope, nothing today either". Is there perhaps another (a better) way to make these kind of status updates?
@ Ryu
So, now you have some 200+ pages of notes from the whole last year(+), saying "nope, no boards today", "DCE sucks", "no boards today either", "DCE sucks today too because I didn't get my board since my last post", endless comments from the same 2-4 people? A real "community treasure", right? Look, I *am not* saying that this endless saga isn't important. If that is what you think, please read my post again. I am personally very interested to see how this mess solves in the end. I only question the way it's being done and channel for the information! BTW, Ron has IMHO done a great job in this mess, many people has a lot of reasons to be thankful about his efforts but other than that, this is *not* a "Genesi thing" ...
@ Morley
I have no problems in ignoring threads that I don't find to be interesting, I do that all the time, and so does everyone else I guess. If you read my post above you would see that my point wasn't about that. And *I DO* think that this is important. Look, one thing I am very interested in right now is how MorphOS is climbing on a daily basis among the other platforms in the RC5-72 effort. There are daily statistics about this, which I and at least a hundred(s) of other community people (and amiga.org readers) follows with great interest. How about I post, every day, a status update in this general community forum about this? Every day, every day FOR A YEAR! It would be very interesting comments, like "yesterday we crunched some 3,300 packs", and the next day "yesterday we only crunced 3,100 packs, bohoo", and the day after that "yesterday we crunched 3,500 packs, yippie!". Every day, for a year. Would that be OK, or would perhaps a dedicated webpage, a mailing list or a yahoo group or similar be better suited for such regular updates? I think so! That's my point, not that it's not important or should be taken away from the community, not at all. The ones who are really interested in every single step of the developments in this mess can find that kind of information, through a better suited channel. The rest of us would probably be more interested in some kind of a summary of it all when it's done.
@ Framiga
Ah, come on, I did not try to provoce anyone; if that would have been my intention, you would have noticed for sure! I am not trying to put neither you nor your "information" away from the community, so please relax! ;-) My point was that a page like this (http://www.morphos-news.de/guides/rc5-72/dnet-mos-stats.php) is far better for regular updates. Create a dedicated webpage, a "diary", a mailing list, a yahoo group or such, and invite all involved/really interested people. And then come back to the rest of the community with a summary of how things went when it's over.
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Hi all,
. . . . sorry, no news from DCE :-D
Ciao
PS- exscuse me Ryu . . .i haven't been able to resist :-)
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@TMHG
Okey, I see your point now, and I understand it. Only problem is nothing is happening, no boards are coming back. So the entire thread just repeats itself, sadly...
How many people are missing their boards? Are DCE sticking to the boards because the dealers involved owe them money or are they plain thieves?
-
Hi Morley,
the second you said.
Ciao
-
Morley wrote:
@TMHG
Okey, I see your point now, and I understand it. Only problem is nothing is happening, no boards are coming back. So the entire thread just repeats itself, sadly...
How many people are missing their boards? Are DCE sticking to the boards because the dealers involved owe them money or are they plain thieves?
AFAIK, Ron would be the most secure resource for that kind of information. Perhaps he should post some exact numbers once an for all, for the record of history if for no other reasons, since I have a feeling that the numbers of people actual helped tends to "decrease" in public discussions, and the numbers of people who are still waiting tends to "increase" in the same discussions. It's a mess for sure, and DCE has handled this in an awful way, but they might not be the only ones to blame. I recall I read before (from Ron?) that some of the (former?) amiga dealers were less honest about this too, some of them simply sold the repaired boards as new to other customers. Perhaps some users are trying to take advantage of the situation as well (fraud)? Perhaps it all will come into the light now when "Inspector Manfred" is in da house? There must be some records kept that at least partly shows the connections? But I recall that Ron said that it all was "a mess", so perhaps it won't be any easier for "Manfred" to sort things out? If things would have been really easy, then I think it would have been sorted out long time ago, because this mess can't be a lot of fun *for anyone* involved ...
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hi takemehomegrandma
listen to me . . . ALL the "ex-missed" boards at DCE, are been found by Ron (some months ago) and they have a name a surname and a valid S/N with ALL the related receipt. THEY ARE THERE!!!!
The problem (as already said) is that ATM Ron Van Herk ISN'T be able to reach/contact/meet nobody at DCE.
He is gone personally to DCE for its jobs (NOT Genesi related) and they haven't open the door!!!!!
It is SAD but it is the truth.
Forget Genesi about this matter.
Don't worry TMHG . . . . nobody is asking nothing to Genesi about this matter, no more.
Ciao
-
Well I have given up on this. I will not push any longer to reach DCE. Since its in the hand of German law now I hope something will come back from it in a good way. My Amiga is sold and I have a Pegasos II on the way. DCE made even, what a funny ending. I still cant believe I ended up supporting them in the end like that!
-
Hi all,
so guys . . . have we lost the battle?
Today i've contacted again Dellert and
michael.steinicke@dcecom.de (the mail adress is still on the webpage but closed ATM).
After the first answer, from the:
Krimalpolizei Oberhausencriminal police kk21 Friedensplatz2-5 D-46045 Oberhausen
that has opened a file about:
File number of Krimalpolizei Oberhausen is####0-######-04/9
no more answer from them too.
What can we do more?
Cheers
-
OK. . . no one interested no more?
Now the last chanche (at least for us) will be to go personally to Oberhausen, speak directly with the Police in place and then go to Dellert.
Summer is near . . and from Italy isn't so far.
Cheers
-
I'm still interested, but I get no reply from Dellert when I call. I cant go since its to far. The police havent given a reply yet. If you do get doen there let me know. I want my working board bac or at least a refund. Remember mine was sent in as a warrenty item!
I did give up after selling off my Amiga and switching to this Pegasos II. I still have the A3000+ though not doing anything that a CSPPC would work in!!
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Hi Acill,
i've just contacted the Krimalpolizei Oberhausen again.
I'm waiting for a reply (already received read reply)
I prefer to wait the Police help, before to decide when to go to Oberhausen.
Don't worry Acill . . . this story isn't finished as Dellert and his gang hopes.
Ciao
-
I still want my CSPPC. I have our beloved 4k (is of my brother and mine) in no working condition, and thinking on selling the grex, and all the other godies, since its unuseable.
We hope that someday get a mail telling me that our ppc will arrive at my home REPAIRED OR NOT (I always can try to repair ti myself, since is not the fist PPC I have repaired), but I have lost the last hope.
Best Luck
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Hi DeQuevedo,
obviously, i can't trade about cards that aren't mine . . .i'm sure that you all understand this.
The only thing that i can do, is to collect AGAIN, all tha names-models-SN before to go to DCE.
As soon as (and if) i'll receive an answer from the Polizei, i'll inform you all.
As usual i'm speaking in name of the VirtualWorks Company.
Ciao
BTW- is it posiible to know if someone else (other than Acill and me as VirtualWorks) has sent the mail to the Police?
If you are interested, i can post here the layout of the mail with all the info needed.
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@ All concerned,
i've just got a reply from the Oberhausen Polizeipraesidium.
I can't post here in public the mail (obviously) but i suggest you to contact them again.
They wants the following info:
- the purchase of the hardware
- the re-send of the complaint hardware
- the complete description of your contacts with DCE GmbH and Mr. Thomas Dellert or other members of DCE (by Phone, eMails, correspondence)
Send them by postal (original or copy) the following documents:
- order documents
- delivering documents
- invoice dokuments
- vouchers of payment
- documents of re-sending of the complaint hardware
- documents of contacts with DCE GmbH and Mr. Thomas Dellert or other members of DCE
- an exact list of your damage (hardware/price)
(For german justice these statements are necessary pieces of evidence)
For the address (postal and e-mail) contact the same as before.
Ciao
PS- as already said, this story isn't finished at all otherwise it is only the beginning and NOW, officially a CRIME.
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I got this email as well, I dont have any recepts any more! Its been close to three years now since my card was sent off!
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@Acill
and you hope to have a feedback without a receipt?
What's happened Acill . . . .BB has contacted you?
Guys . . . .good luck
-
Like I said I gave up after Ron decided not to help any more. So good luck to you.
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May will be 3 years my card is in Germany. This is really insane. Do all german companies act like DCE? What else can we do to get our cards back? ARRRHGHHHH!!!
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Acill wrote:
I dont have any recepts any more!
Even no E-Mail etc? in your archive. The smallest evidence of proof of your card can help.
Sometimes the SN is handwritten into the manual.
If you sent the card as signatur-delivery (sorry don't know the correct term, swissgerman = Eingeschrieben)) then yor postoffice has at least a entry in their books. Ask for a copy
Perhaps your dealer,vendor has some infos etc in his books.
Even if you have no proofs. Let the German police know that you have sent a card to be repaired. So they know at least how many people have been threatened
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I have emails and the serial writen in the manual. I've also got the printout from software hut with the price I paid for it. Thats what I sent in today. I have told the police all I know and all they have asked of me.