Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: sim085 on May 14, 2012, 05:59:09 PM

Title: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 14, 2012, 05:59:09 PM
Hello, I was using my A500+ when all of a sudden I got an error that a file could not be accessed on disk. I restarted my A500+ and it did not boot...

The GVP HD8+ does seem to get power but there is no disk activity. The A500+ does get power and the keyboard LED stays blinking. I get no color on the screen.

Does anyone know what it might be?

I was thinking this might be a power problem and therefore I was wondering if anyone knows from where I can find how to hack the GVP HD8+ to take power from the A500+
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: paul1981 on May 14, 2012, 06:07:39 PM
What happens if you cold boot and hold both mouse buttons down to get into the startup-menu?
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 14, 2012, 06:28:31 PM
Quote from: paul1981;693180
What happens if you cold boot and hold both mouse buttons down to get into the startup-menu?


What does cold boot mean? If I hold both mouse buttons down nothing happens. The A500+ works fine when I pull the GVP HD8+ off...
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: paul1981 on May 14, 2012, 06:49:25 PM
Quote from: sim085;693182
What does cold boot mean? If I hold both mouse buttons down nothing happens. The A500+ works fine when I pull the GVP HD8+ off...

I didn't know it was working with the HD removed, but a cold boot is a boot from power being off.
If it's a 500+ (kick 2) then there should be a boot menu if you hold down both mouse buttons whilst powering on (or after rebooting).
You could still attach the hard drive and see if you can get into this bootmenu.
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 14, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: paul1981;693183
I didn't know it was working with the HD removed, but a cold boot is a boot from power being off.
If it's a 500+ (kick 2) then there should be a boot menu if you hold down both mouse buttons whilst powering on (or after rebooting).
You could still attach the hard drive and see if you can get into this bootmenu.


I have kickstart 3.1 and with the GVP HD8+ attached I get no boot menu when holding down both mouse buttons.
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: paul1981 on May 14, 2012, 06:59:36 PM
Quote from: sim085;693185
I have kickstart 3.1 and with the GVP HD8+ attached I get no boot menu when holding down both mouse buttons.

Okay...so that rules out a corrupted (software wise) hard drive. Definitely dealing with a hardware issue here (providing you attempted to go into bootmenu from powerdown). The reason I  say that is because it could have been an RDB virus... but not so I believe, if you can't even get into the bootmenu from a cold reset (maybe someone can correct me here as the RDB is read upon power on).

Can you hear the hard drive spin up? Or doesn't it get that far? (black screen and flashing caps)
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 14, 2012, 08:46:26 PM
Quote from: paul1981;693186
Can you hear the hard drive spin up? Or doesn't it get that far? (black screen and flashing caps)

My hard disk is a CF card. I changed this with a normal SCSI hard disk and I still have the same problem. Hard disk does start spinning but does not boot. I already had this problem with normal SCSI hard disks and I was told (don't know if here) that it could be because of PSU. At the moment even when I put the switch to 'Game' I still have problems (black screen, LED flashes for around 7 times then pause, then again).
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: motrucker on May 14, 2012, 11:08:51 PM
You are a bit stingy with your info, but - assuming you have the GVP PSU unit, and suspect it as a problem, why not take a multimeter to the outputs and see what it says? Could be a bad PSU, or corrosion on the contacts? (Just a couple of wild ideas)
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 14, 2012, 11:39:53 PM
Quote from: motrucker;693197
You are a bit stingy with your info, but - assuming you have the GVP PSU unit, and suspect it as a problem, why not take a multimeter to the outputs and see what it says? Could be a bad PSU, or corrosion on the contacts? (Just a couple of wild ideas)


I do have a multimeter but don't really know how to use it :( where do I put the black and red pin? and what would consist a correct value? I am sure the PSU is still outputting some power but not sure if it is enough to make the GVP work...
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: Motormouth on May 15, 2012, 12:19:30 AM
Quote from: sim085;693189
My hard disk is a CF card. I changed this with a normal SCSI hard disk and I still have the same problem. Hard disk does start spinning but does not boot. I already had this problem with normal SCSI hard disks and I was told (don't know if here) that it could be because of PSU. At the moment even when I put the switch to 'Game' I still have problems (black screen, LED flashes for around 7 times then pause, then again).


I had a problem with my GVP HD8+ PSU.  The solder joints on the female IEC plug became loose.  I had to re-solder them.
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: Etherweet on May 15, 2012, 06:47:41 AM
(remember this thing has a small fan that can sound like a disk drive - allthough quantums have a unique noise of their own)

(( fan running could be an indication 12 volts is there at least))

if you do open the case you can disconnect the hard drive power lead and measure the voltage safely there.  the 2 inner conductors are both ground and it wont matter which one of those you use.

you should see 5 volts and 12 volts.  should be in 5 to 10% tolerance to get a hard drive to unpark and do internal diagnostics.

if the supply voltages are wrong the fan could possibly still run.. too fast or too slow...

im almost willing to bet the green power led is on the 5 volt supply and the fan is on the 12 volt supply. so if you have the green power light lit and the fan spinning, you have a good idea whether you want to go inside or not.

- just plugging my .02 in -
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 15, 2012, 07:46:04 AM
Quote from: Etherweet;693219

you should see 5 volts and 12 volts.  should be in 5 to 10% tolerance to get a hard drive to unpark and do internal diagnostics.


I used the multimeter as suggested and it seems the voltage to the hard drive is right +5V (orrange) and +12V (yellow). I removed the GVP and connected a GrandSlam (from which only the fastRAM part still works) and the A500+ booted without any issue. I also tested the CF card on the PC and this also worked fine.

Therefore it seems that the problem is either with the GVP or with the ACARD SCSI > IDE adapter. However given that other hard disks also don't boot, I think it is safe to belive hat the problem is with the GVP HD8+.

Does anyone know what might have gone bad and what other tests I can do to find out??

Note that the A500+ does not boot (i.e. LED stays blinking) even when the GVP switch is set to Game.
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 16, 2012, 12:08:51 AM
Quote from: sim085;693224
Does anyone know what might have gone bad and what other tests I can do to find out??


Does anyone know how I can test if a chip (LS244 and LS245) is working? I used a multimeter and it seems that these chips are getting the needed supply. However I do not know how to use a multimeter to see if these chips are actually doing what they should be doing? or this is not done with a multimeter?
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: Etherweet on May 16, 2012, 01:21:03 AM
at this point i would say disconnect the scsi cable from the hard drive.

then boot up with the hd8 connected.

this will prove the disk drive is not coming up ready and is holding tee scsi bus up.

the hd8 probably does a scan from device 0 to 6, giving each unit time to come up.

if it detects the hard drive but the hard drive is broken then it waits for a ready repsonse that may never ever come.

booting with the drive physically disconnected shouold prove this...
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: motrucker on May 16, 2012, 01:21:53 AM
Here is the data sheet for the LS74LS244 chip.

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/46211/SLS/LS244.html

If you search the other number, I am sure you'll find it too.
Could easily be one of the "jelly bean" chips...
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 16, 2012, 06:47:50 PM
Quote from: Etherweet;693305
at this point i would say disconnect the scsi cable from the hard drive. Then boot up with the hd8 connected.


I disconnected the scsi cable and booted up with the hd8 connected ... still same problem :( I guess this proves the problem is with the hd8, but does it say anything as to where the problem might be?
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: Motormouth on May 17, 2012, 01:34:31 AM
Quote from: Motormouth;693204
I had a problem with my GVP HD8+ PSU.  The solder joints on the female IEC plug became loose.  I had to re-solder them.


I would still check the power supply and resoldering IEC plug is about the easily thing in electronics to solder (the solder joints are very large).  I have seen a couple of these power supplies have loose connection.  This loose connection can often cause strange effects.
Only one of the voltages maybe a problem or a ground or even the board may not be getting enough current.

I would get anything from the hard drive not spinning (controller and ram would check out just fine.  Even the hard drive would identify itself with SCSI Mounter)  to a variety of Guru errors.

Remember the A500 HD 8+ and A500 should not co-mingle their power supply, only signals.

improper power to the A5000 HD 8+ will not necessary keep the A500 from coming on
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 17, 2012, 11:09:44 PM
Quote from: Motormouth;693375
I would still check the power supply and resoldering IEC plug


I replaced the gvp power supply with a PC power supply, checked all voltages on chips and hard drive are correct, but still same problem. Put switch on "Game", remove hard drive (inc. scsi cable), removed all memory sticks, set jumpers on J8 J7 (0 memory), switched on but still same problem. GVP HD8 green lights comes on, fun starts spinning, A500 turns on with blinking LED and screen is black or maybe very dark grey!!

I really can't understand what is wrong.
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 18, 2012, 08:48:52 AM
Quote from: Etherweet;693305
the hd8 probably does a scan from device 0 to 6, giving each unit time to come up.


What does this mean exactly? What are device 0 to 6?
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: psxphill on May 18, 2012, 09:54:30 AM
Quote from: sim085;693473
What does this mean exactly? What are device 0 to 6?

On scsi everything has a device number, including the controller itself which is normally 7.
 
When the computer turns on the boot rom in the controller will start looking for a hard drive to boot from (which will be in the range 0 to 6).
 
It's possible that without a drive plugged in or if it's unable to communicate with the drive (maybe a bad scsi cable) then the boot rom will sit there for a long time just in case it comes on eventually.
 
The LED is flashing, which would generally indicate a Guru. However if it doesn't stop flashing and reboot and start again (like a Guru would) then it's possible that the boot rom flashes the LED while it's waiting for the drive. However I have never owned a HD8+ so I'm really just guessing.
 
Have you tried a different internal cable?
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 18, 2012, 08:56:11 PM
Quote from: psxphill;693475
When the computer turns on the boot rom in the controller will start looking for a hard drive to boot from (which will be in the range 0 to 6).
 
It's possible that without a drive plugged in or if it's unable to communicate with the drive (maybe a bad scsi cable) then the boot rom will sit there for a long time just in case it comes on eventually.


At the moment I do not have an extra scsi cable so I have to wait before I try that as well. However I did discover something else which I do not know if it says anything about where the fault might be...

The hd8 has two LED lights; one green and one yellow with the yellow LED showing hard disk activity. Now, when no scsi cable is connected to the hd8 only the green LED turns on. When I connect the scsi cable to the hd8, but no hard disk, the yellow LED turns on and off repeatedly. When I then connect the hard disk, again only green LED turns on.

Does this mean that the controller is indeed finding the hard disk and the problem might be something that happens afterwards?

I will try a new scsi cable the moment I have one just to make sure I try any option.
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 23, 2012, 10:28:37 PM
I checked the SCSI cable and this seems to be fine as well. Does anyone know what the hd8 tries to do after it confirms that there is a hard disk?
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: paul1981 on May 24, 2012, 09:34:20 PM
Quote from: sim085;694085
I checked the SCSI cable and this seems to be fine as well. Does anyone know what the hd8 tries to do after it confirms that there is a hard disk?

How did you check the cable?
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: sim085 on May 25, 2012, 12:35:07 AM
Quote from: paul1981;694203
How did you check the cable?

With a solderless breadboard + jump wires + led light + 3.7V battery. Did a small circuit with the scsi cable in the middle, tested it for each line on the cable and led light turned on each time.

Is this ok? or that was not the right way to test it? I just tried the first thing that came to mind.
Title: Re: GVP HD8+ problems
Post by: paul1981 on May 27, 2012, 02:16:06 PM
Quote from: sim085;694214
With a solderless breadboard + jump wires + led light + 3.7V battery. Did a small circuit with the scsi cable in the middle, tested it for each line on the cable and led light turned on each time.

Is this ok? or that was not the right way to test it? I just tried the first thing that came to mind.

That sounds okay, but even so you can never be sure. A good connection depends on good spring force on the little copper connections on the end of the cable onto the pins on the drive/adapter. Poking thick jump wires in the holes could weaken the connections further. So I'd still recommend replacing the cable just incase.
Unless you can test the cable on another computer then you can't be sure it's working correctly at all.