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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: k4lmp on April 28, 2012, 07:28:34 PM
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Hello, all. I have been into Commodore for years, and just now took the plunge and bought an A2000. I know this is probably a stupid question, but remember, I am new to Amiga. The unit has a hard drive, but when I turn it on, it is asking for a floppy, and will not boot off of the HD. Is there something I need to do, or do you still need the floppy to boot. Here is the info:
Commodore Amiga A2000 computer.. Works great.. Has the following: Standard floppy drive, commodore 2630 accelerator running at 030 by 25, with 2 megs of ram onboard, 2091 controller card with 2 megs of ram and 6.6 roms. 100 mb Quantum hard drive.. 2.1 operating system.. REV 6.3 motherboard.. 1 meg chip ram suppra sup ram card with 6 megs on card but only using 4 megs.. Total 1 meg chip, 8 megs other.. Battery was taken out by previous owner.. Comes with CPU, Keyboard and Mouse.. Everything works good.
Do I need a Workbench floppy? Thanks to all in advance.
Jeff
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Hi - and Welcome!
That sounds like a pretty nice starter system there! Upgraded A2000s like that give some of the best value for money in the Amiga range; they're not expensive but they're very expandable!
First, a recommendation: Get Kickstart 3.1 ROMs fitted, and upgrade to OS3.1 or OS3.9 depending on which you prefer. Personally, I run 3.9 on my A2000. Next thing is a graphics card - a Picasso II is a good basic card for an A2000.
As for your particular problem, the answer is no, you don't need a floppy disk. That set up should boot up from the hard disk just fine.
What kind of hard disk is it exactly? You say it's a Quantum 100MB - is it the Quantum 105S? That's a half-height drive (i.e. it's big!). They're good reliable workhorses but when they've not been used for a while, the lubricant in them seizes up. Check yours is actually spinning up - you'll hear it and feel it! If it's not starting, don't worry - you just need to give them a few sharp raps with your hand or something to loosen them.
Good luck! Let us know how you get on with your new toy. :)
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The computer should able to boot off the HD. I would just double check that everything is connected.
If not, then you'll need workbench disks further diagnose the HD.
See if you have those. I think you should be able to use the one labeled "Install" to run the application "HD Toolbox" to see if the computer can even see the HD.
You can also try and press both mouse buttons before the system boots to get into the "Early Boot Menu" and from there you would be able to at least see the HD is listed. I'm not 100% sure 2.x has that menu but its worth a shot.
I agree with 3.1 ROMS as a future upgrade but for 3.1 not 3.9 because of only having 8MB RAM and a 25mhz 030. For that same reason a graphics card would also be sort of useless. Maybe look at ClassicWB. http://classicwb.abime.net/
I would suggest the Indivision ECS to connect it to modern monitor.
good luck!
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Got it...I was investigating the HD to make sure it was spinning, which it was. I thought I would reseat the SCSI card, and noticed the screw was stripped that holds the board down. The board wasn't seated at all. Must have come loose in shipping. Booted up fine. Only problem is the only thing I have to hook it to is an old 1702 monitor, which is in BW due to the monochrome output on the back. I have an A500 on the way, that has an A520 with it, so hopefully I can use that interim, and at least have color. I have a 1902A that I use on my C128, but don't know if it would work, as I know the RGB is different on the C128. Also, no cables for the A2000. So now I'm going to investigate CrossDos a little and see if I can get some software on there to play with. Thanks for the help, and any more suggestions for my new to me system would be appreciated. I looked at the Indivision ECS, but they are out of stock on them and didn't have a date on when they would have more.
Jeff
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@ K4lmp
Keep an eye out on ebay for a SDFF. I managed to pick up one of the old Commodore models that uses the same Amber ship that is in the A3000 and works a treat.
I'm not sure if any of the Indivision ECS models work in the A2000, but I have one of those in my A4000 and that's the bee's knees. :)
Take a look at these for some alternative options:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=amiga+scan+doubler&_sacat=0&_odkw=amiga+sdff&_osacat=0&_from=R40
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Got it...I was investigating the HD to make sure it was spinning, which it was. I thought I would reseat the SCSI card, and noticed the screw was stripped that holds the board down. The board wasn't seated at all. Must have come loose in shipping. Booted up fine. Only problem is the only thing I have to hook it to is an old 1702 monitor, which is in BW due to the monochrome output on the back. I have an A500 on the way, that has an A520 with it, so hopefully I can use that interim, and at least have color. I have a 1902A that I use on my C128, but don't know if it would work, as I know the RGB is different on the C128. Also, no cables for the A2000. So now I'm going to investigate CrossDos a little and see if I can get some software on there to play with. Thanks for the help, and any more suggestions for my new to me system would be appreciated. I looked at the Indivision ECS, but they are out of stock on them and didn't have a date on when they would have more.
Jeff
Bummer about the indivision ECS being sold out...
you could get one of these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330605923350?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2576wt_816
i have never used one but i'd try it over paying those ebay microway FF prices.
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Well, I wouldn't mind having everything internal, but, according to the seller of the Microway boards, they don't really cut it on LCD monitors. I have several VGA CRT monitors, but those are slowly going away. The one from England http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amiga-Flickerfixer-Scandoubler-A500-A600-A1200-A1000-A2000-A3000-A4000-/200740994672?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item2ebd187e70 is nice, as it comes with a cable and is powered internally, however, big price, considering it is the same as the $32 one, without the fancy case.
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I still say get a graphics card. :)
Sure you don't need one - and the Indivision is great - but nothing like having a proper graphics card IMHO. Do make sure it's supported by Picasso96 or Cybergraphics though (the two graphics standards for running high resolutions in AmigaOS). Even if you only run it in 640x480 it'll still be much faster than AGA, and won't take up huge amounts of RAM.
I think 3.1 with a graphics card could be the sweet spot....
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Any suggestions or links I can look at? I am new, so don't know anything, but do read a lot. Also, how hard is the upgrade to 3.1?
Jeff
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Any suggestions or links I can look at? I am new, so don't know anything, but do read a lot. Also, how hard is the upgrade to 3.1?
Jeff
just this...
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58860&highlight=2320+dell
i think it might be better to get monitor that can sync to your amiga.
the FF boards may work OK in NTSC but not at all in PAL or just be crappy on LCD in general.
the upgrade to 3.1 is simple. you'll carefully remove 2 ROM chips and replace them with 3.1 chips. Workbench is just as easy as loading 5 disks into the drive consecutively.
you might also want this. you could get rid of spinning mechanical SCSI HDs all together and possibly prep the entire HD on your PC with UAE.
http://a4000t.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68&products_id=184&zenid=03abb52d8ee234d9e1a0f16e346857a7
good luck...
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just this...
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58860&highlight=2320+dell
i think it might be better to get monitor that can sync to your amiga.
the FF boards may work OK in NTSC but not at all in PAL or just be crappy on LCD in general.
the upgrade to 3.1 is simple. you'll carefully remove 2 ROM chips and replace them with 3.1 chips. Workbench is just as easy as loading 5 disks into the drive consecutively.....
good luck...
Huh? I'm sure you really meant the one ROM chip....
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Where can you buy the Workbench disks? Seems like I saw them on ebay, maybe. Does it matter, say, if the 3.1 disks are for an A1200, or does that matter?
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So, I've been looking at Classic WB. That page totally confuses me. Do you have to download and install with WinUAE on a drive? All of the versions listed are for different target machines. I am sorry to ask so many questions, I try to read up all I can.
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Well, I bought one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/330605923350?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 and one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/290696088135?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 Cheaper than a monitor, and gives me something to mess around with. I'll let you know how it works for me. Thanks.
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the upgrade to 3.1 is simple. you'll carefully remove 2 ROM chips and replace them with 3.1 chips. Workbench is just as easy as loading 5 disks into the drive consecutively.
.
Actually for A2000 its only 1 rom chip to change..
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As a Scan Doubler / Flicker Fixer, I use the cheap and cheerful GBS-8220. These can be bought new from eBay for around 20 Euros including shipping and with extremely little modification work surprisingly great with any Amiga.
Works great with any LCD monitor i tried and does an excellent job flicker-fixing.
I have an Indivision AGA on my A1200 (worth approx 150 - 170 euros second hand) and the GBS-8220 on my A2000 and I can honestly say that there is not much difference is quality between them.
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So, I've been looking at Classic WB. That page totally confuses me. Do you have to download and install with WinUAE on a drive? All of the versions listed are for different target machines. I am sorry to ask so many questions, I try to read up all I can.
Yes, you'll need to use WinUAE because the site is "legal" and the downloads are missing certain files contained on the Workbench disks.
I've installed several versions of ClassicWB onto HDF files and real hard drives using WinUAE (Amiga Forever version).
Just follow the instructions step-by-step and you can't go wrong.
The only issue I see is that you have a SCSI hard drive, so trying to get the data moved from your PC onto the drive is going to be a major pain. You might want to wait, order a 3.1 Kickstart ROM and find a SCSI-IDE or SCSI to USB adapter and that way you can install one of the more "pretty" versions of ClassicWB directly onto the SCSI drive while it is attached to the PC (WinUAE can mount it as a real Amiga drive). You can then insert it into the A2000 and it should boot.
Also, while it is still attached to the PC, you could download KillerGorilla's WHDload game packs from his website and install a few of your favourite games onto the hard drive. Come to think of it, you might want to track down a larger hard drive too.
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OK, so I am intrigued by the comments on putting a HD in a pc and formatting it using WinUAE. I have several SCSI HD's laying around, but how do I know if they will work with the Amiga? I think I even have a couple of SCSI controllers for a PC, but I guess need to know what version of SCSI that the Amiga takes. The drives I have are I think around 18 Gb. Thanks so much for all of the help. You guys, and this site are great!
Jeff
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OK, so I am intrigued by the comments on putting a HD in a pc and formatting it using WinUAE. I have several SCSI HD's laying around, but how do I know if they will work with the Amiga? I think I even have a couple of SCSI controllers for a PC, but I guess need to know what version of SCSI that the Amiga takes. The drives I have are I think around 18 Gb. Thanks so much for all of the help. You guys, and this site are great!
Jeff
i would just the the SCSI CF reader(that i linked above) and just build the OS on a CF with inexpensive CF-IDE adapter.
those USB->SCSI things are $$$, and what do you have at the end of the day, AOS on a drive whose MTBF was 10 years ago...
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i would just the the SCSI CF reader(that i linked above) and just build the OS on a CF with inexpensive CF-IDE adapter.
those IDE->SCSI things are $$$, and what do you have at the end of the day, AOS on a drive whose MTBF was 10 years ago...
I agree.
I have a CF card in my A2000 and I put ClassicWB on that by simply putting the card in my PC's CF slot, mounting it as a real Amiga drive in WinUAE (Make sure you run WinUAE "as an administrator" or the option to mount the card as a hard drive will be grayed-out). Booted into a UAE Workbench environment, formatted the card (I think I used PSF3 or SFS as two 2GB partitions). Then I followed the instrucions on the ClassicWB site to install their Workbench.
Keep a WinUAE setting to "emulate" your A2000 using that card and then when you want to download something for your Amiga you can pull the card from the A2000, put it in the PC and use WinUAE to copy the downloaded file(s) from the PC's hard drive to Workbench on your CF card. Then just put the card back into your A2000.
You can even keep back-up images of your CF card on the PC just in case you trash the CF card and need to reinstall it again.
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Also, if you're missing your Workbench disks to make the ClassicWB installation then look in the news section here and buy teh downloadable version of Amiga Forever. It comes with ADF versions of the Workbench disks that you can use to make ClassicWB. Also, once you have your hard drive set up you can use your A2000 to turn these ADFs back into real Amiga floppies.
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Well, I bought one of the CF to SCSI adapters that you linked to in a previous post. My computer has a card reader built in. Now I have to figure out how to run WinUAE from Linux.
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Well, I bought one of the CF to SCSI adapters that you linked to in a previous post. My computer has a card reader built in. Now I have to figure out how to run WinUAE from Linux.
Or ask a friend who has Windows to lend you his PC for an hour.
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OK, so I have ordered a compact flash adapter for my scsi card, and my computer has a compact flash reader. I have ordered the 3.1 kickstart rom for my A2000 off of ebay. Now for the workbench disks that I don't have. There is a set on ebay that says they are 3.1 for an A1200, will those work? Now, for the main trouble. I want to use WinUAE to install Classic WB on my compact flash to use as the hard drive in my A2000. If I replace the Kickstart ROM with the 3.1 version I ordered, How can I use the workbench disks to install the OS on the compact flash using WinUAE, when I can't do anything with those floppies on my PC? If the disks off of ebay will work, and I own them, would it be legal for someone to email me a copy of the disks in adf format to use? Am I overcompicating this? If so, sorry.
Jeff
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The A1200 Workbench disks should work fine with your A2000. I've used the same ones on mine.
Check your inbox for a PM.
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I ordered the Workbench 3.1 disks that said they were for an A1200. I figured even if I get the Classic WB done, I will still need them at sometime anyway.
Jeff
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Does anybody know if the A2091 RAM is just used by the SCSI controller, or should it show up in showconfig? It has 2mb, and I verified the jumper is set for 2mb on the card, but in showconfig, it only shows 64k on a590/2091. Also, one person asked what type of HD it had, and yes, it is 105S. Thanks.
I almost forgot, the A2091 is a rev. 4.1 board running 6.6 roms.
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Does anybody know if the A2091 RAM is just used by the SCSI controller, or should it show up in showconfig? It has 2mb, and I verified the jumper is set for 2mb on the card, but in showconfig, it only shows 64k on a590/2091. Also, one person asked what type of HD it had, and yes, it is 105S. Thanks.
I almost forgot, the A2091 is a rev. 4.1 board running 6.6 roms.
The ram on the scsi cards is system ram and should just show up as additional "fast ram".
I think the 64K you are seeing is the cards ROM size.
It may be a benefit for the HD controller driver to have at least some ram on the controller to DMA into, and i think the GURU ROM may know about that, but the ram is in no way dedicated to disk IO like a cashing SCSI controller on a PC.
Like for example, my old A2000 with PP&S 040/28 which had 32MB 32bit ram but no SCSI controller. The Z-II HD controller (GVP4008, GURUROM) can't DMA into the 32BIT ram, so if you have no 16bit FAST ram, its only other choice is chip ram which already has contention for everything else.
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I have an old 2091 with 2MB sat on a shelf. From what I gather it is a pretty nasty old SCSI card and has some limitations. Does the CPU card have a SCSI header on it (I don't think the A2630 does)? If it does then connect your hard drive to that.
Also, I think your main RAM card was probably set to 4MB because the previous owner might have been using a Zorro graphics card or similar. Try setting it to 6MB and hopefully you'll find you have 1MB Chip and 10MB Fast (2MB CPU card + 2MB SCSI card + 6MB RAM card).
Here's some tips from the Big Book of Amiga Hardware on the 2091:
The hard drive power connector on the board is not a reliable way to power a card-mounted hard drive. Use the connectors attached directly to the power supply instead.
The version 7 ROM fixes the following bugs in the 6.6 ROM
- >1GB HD support
- DMA reselection bug fixed
- disconnect/reconnect performance improved a lot
- Sync messages are handled
- Error handling improved
- Sync problems with Seagate/Syquest fixed
- Removable media recognition fixed
- Slow boot jumper now does a 15 second wait plus 300ms scan
If that information is correct, then your 6.6 ROMs might only allow you to use a CF card =< 1GB.
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Wow, this board is GREAT! Darrin, thanks for the tip. I tried it and found out that the supra board had also came out during shipping. Memory is kinda confusing, though:
via showconfig-
chip ram=1meg
fast ram=8meg
accelerator=2meg
scsi card=2meg
ram board (unidentified)=4meg These two are on the one supra card.
ram board (unidentified)=2meg
Workbench shows:
9meg graphics, and 8meg other.
This kinda confuses me, as I see 10meg total, but the total chip plus fast is only showing a total of 9meg. I probably just don't understand how it works. Could it be a version 2.05 issue, not supporting the 10meg total?
Thanks,
Jeff
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Wow, this board is GREAT! Darrin, thanks for the tip. I tried it and found out that the supra board had also came out during shipping. Memory is kinda confusing, though:
via showconfig-
chip ram=1meg
fast ram=8meg
accelerator=2meg
scsi card=2meg
ram board (unidentified)=4meg These two are on the one supra card.
ram board (unidentified)=2meg
Workbench shows:
9meg graphics, and 8meg other.
This kinda confuses me, as I see 10meg total, but the total chip plus fast is only showing a total of 9meg. I probably just don't understand how it works. Could it be a version 2.05 issue, not supporting the 10meg total?
Thanks,
Jeff
Try using sysinfo (on aminet) or AIBB to look at your memory configuration
You should see something like:
Chip ram
Fast ram
32bit Fast ram
As others have said the amiga only has 8 megs of 16 bit addressable space.
but one can have significally more 32 bit ram (example in the a3000 and a4000 one can have 16 megs on board, 128 meg from the fast processor slot and 1 gig in the zorro III slots)
Also it will help you determine if the 32 bit fast ram is mapped into the 16 bit ram configuration space. I cannot remember it this is a problem with the A2630 or not but is certainly the case for other accelerators. One would prefer having the 32 bit memory outside the 16 bit space. ie look at the memory addresses.
Also the 2630 allow for 4 megs of ram. If you can find some 256kbit x 4 zips around to fill up your 2630, that would be helpful. I know mechy (ie mechware) is selling 1Mbit x 4 zips, maybe he has some 256kbit x 4 around
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You made a great find with your A2000!
I'm curious what you want to do with it. I usually mentally categorize other Amigans into several camps (emulators, gamers, collectors, those enamored with the OS/HW, and, hardcore folks who will NOT use any other platform even for modern tasks, etc). This will have some bearing on how you continue. Example: a gamer may feel retargetable graphics (RTG) is a waste when coupled to an 030. People in the other categories might feel RTG is essential.
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Well, I guess I just like to tinker. I used Commodore 64/128, in the early years, and like the retro feel, and just seeing if I can make something work. I use Linux as my primary OS, I guess because it is different, and like I said, it is something to tinker and experiment with. I never did know much about Amiga back in my Commodore days, as they were too expensive for me, but now I see how much ahead of the times they were. Not really much of a gamer, however I will play one now and again.
Darrin, good point on the HD limits with version 6.6 roms. The chips look like they are just EPROMS. If that is the only difference, if anyone knows what type of chip they are, and has the ROM files that are used, I could burn version 7 chips and replace them. I don't know if those ROMs are still copyrighted or not, someone else might know the answers to these questions. Thanks.
Jeff
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Well, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the A2091 version 7 roms take a 2764 EPROM. Anybody know if that is correct, or have the roms? Of course, if this is not legal, I understand.
Jeff
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Darrin, good point on the HD limits with version 6.6 roms. The chips look like they are just EPROMS. If that is the only difference, if anyone knows what type of chip they are, and has the ROM files that are used, I could burn version 7 chips and replace them. I don't know if those ROMs are still copyrighted or not, someone else might know the answers to these questions. Thanks.
Jeff
if you can find it, it would really help the 2091 if you had a Guru ROM. Unfortunately you can't just burn the EEPROM as there is some additional circuitry on the board to accommodate the a larger that stock ROM. http://babel.de/amiga.html
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Guru Roms are very rare to see...
Check out this thread, http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=34626
Would be great if the ROM adapter was opensource... hmm wonder if its just got simple TTL logic or a PAL or just a bare pcb.. hmmm
Update - Its protected by a GAL.
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Ok, so I have my CF card reader on the way. I have been thinking about it, and would like to add a CD drive, instead of keeping my old HD. I have a couple of SCSI CD burners laying around. I realize that the burner function wouldn't work, but could I use one of these as a CD-ROM, or will my A2091 only support certain drives? I have the Ver. 7.0 ROMs on the way, as well, as it has 6.6 right now. Thanks.
Jeff
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Recently completed an A2000 restore and upgrades. Personally found the CD-ROM to be a waste of space and time. The only thing I ever used it for was to install WB3.9.
With CF cards and the reader, you can mount multiple LUN's, so you can easily use an SD card to move data back and forth.
Once I added an Ethernet card, the CD-ROM really became useless as I could use samba or http to transfer files easily.
I put the CD-ROM in storage and can call upon it if needed, but that hasn't happened yet.
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Update - Its protected by a GAL.
It should be possible to create an equivalent GAL by following the clues here: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29356&page=2
You should even be able to do it with TTL/PAL/PIC if you feel like it.
If I didn't have so much trouble finding an A2091 without getting ripped off then I might be tempted to have a go.
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Well, I got my Kickstart 3.1 chips today, and my CF adapter from Mechware. I am waiting on my 3.1 WB disks, and my converter so I can hook up a VGA monitor, as I only have composite now. I got an A520 with an A500 I bought, but no go on using it, as there is no composite signal from it. I tried hooking it up to a TV as well, no RF. Either the A520 is bad, or something is wrong with the output on my RGB video. It looks like if the A520 was good, I would at least have a blank screen on a TV instead of snow. Anyway, I guess I will find out when my converter gets here.
So here is my main question. I set the jumper on my accelerator so that when I boot, it asks for me to pick 68000 or 68030, for compatibility with older software. I noticed at the top of the screen, when it boots, it says "autoconfig out of memory" on the screen when it is waiting for me to make the selection, but it boots up fine when i pick either 68000 or 68030. Is this a problem? If so, what could I check?
Thanks,
Jeff
One more thing, do you have to do anything to enable an A520, as I assume it gets power from some pins on the RGB port.
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Well, I did some searching, and possibly the reason for the error is that I have more memory installed than autoconfig can use. I never thought of this, it makes sense, though as I didn't see it until I changed a jumper on my RAM expansion to use all of its memory. According to the post, it doesn't hurt anything, and the machine boots up fine. I think there is a total of 10 meg installed. I found this info on the English Amiga Board.
Any ideas on the trouble with my A520, I hope it is just bad, and not my RGB port.
Thanks,
Jeff
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Any ideas on the trouble with my A520, I hope it is just bad, and not my RGB port.
A520s were notorious for running hot and burning out :)
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Well, the A520 is good, works on my A500. Not good. I guess I will have to see if voltage is coming out of the A2000's video port to power the A500.
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Well, the A520 is good, works on my A500. Not good. I guess I will have to see if voltage is coming out of the A2000's video port to power the A500.
Even if the video port is fried (assuming the worst), a flicker-fixer that inserts into the video slot could get around that.
Hopefully this isn't the case though.