Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: boglo on April 23, 2012, 07:56:40 PM
-
Ok I know the batteries leak on these things, mine has been removed because of this.
So my question is will the thing run without it? or what other options do i have?
-
The A3000 is, I think, the only Amiga model that stores some SCSI controller settings in memory that is backed by that battery (in addition to the Real Time Clock). Probably, default values are used if the memory is corrupt, don't know for sure.
It is not difficult to substitute a better battery AND remotely mount it so a leak is much less consequential. I personally prefer rechargable cordless phone batteries.
-
The A3000 is, I think, the only Amiga model that stores some SCSI controller settings in memory that is backed by that battery (in addition to the Real Time Clock). Probably, default values are used if the memory is corrupt, don't know for sure.
Pretty sure this is all correct, I've had a couple of 3000s with no battery and never had any trouble with them.
-
No battery (although might stick one in soon) and all is running good... smoooooth!
lost
-
I have replaced my battery some time ago. I have issue with external SCSI device and more then one drive on the internal connected. But I think this are related to the ver 4 SCSI chip not the Battery being replaced. I just slapped a SCSI Zorro card in to handle the other devices.
-
If you have a harddrive is it highly recommended that you have a working battery and real time clock for your A3000. Yes you will have some problems with external SCSI chains and you also run the very large problem of corrupted file system. I have had problems in the past with the FFS regarding date/time for the creation of files or folders.
When you have a problem with the FFS and need to run some form of disk doctor over the files you get time before creation problems. IE, the current time/date is actually before the time of the creation of your files!
Usually these need user input to get past, try clicking the mouse 30,000 times to fix your harddrive :)
I had a badly corroded RTC circuit and no clock! Got this fixed not longer after my marathon 30,000 clicks!
Az
-
Well if thats the case with the date and 30,000 clicks, Maybe one could date stamp it all with opus or something else of choice before putting the battery in . So for example if i bought a battery today and then before i installed it i date stamped everything (which would save the clicks) and the just shut off and install battery. Turn on and hope it works.. hmmmm Think i might buy a one this weekend and try! Did I repeat myself?
lost
-
Thanks for all the info I'll try it without the battery and see how it goes. I'll let you know ....
-
You don't have to solder the battery to the motherboard. You can use any number of stand offs to keep a battery from leaking on the board. I have even seen batteries put in small plastic boxes, and Velcro-ed to the inside of the case. (looks odd, but it works). an extra couple inches of wire will not hurt a thing.
-
I'm using SetBatt (IIRC) from Aminet in the beginning of my S-S to set my A3k scsi prefs at bootup and correct time from my NTP server as I never replaced the battery.
-
You should be fine without the battery. Aggro has a cleaver way around it.
I would also recommend not mounting it directly on the mb. For years I was a purist, and only installed the green barrel oem's that weren't suppost to leak.. The stock of these is getting quite poor and may leak if the owner puts it in storage for years.
I'm now in the phone battery club. Would love to see other handy work here. I'm thinking of mounting in the hard drive bay and hooking up a disconnect. Anyone try this?
-
This is how i replaced my battery in my 3000D
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1903/25516680.jpg)
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/323/19582572.jpg)
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/9374/58941323.jpg)
-
I have replaced my battery some time ago. I have issue with external SCSI device and more then one drive on the internal connected. But I think this are related to the ver 4 SCSI chip not the Battery being replaced. I just slapped a SCSI Zorro card in to handle the other devices.
yes, the WD 4 is usually the cause. updating this usually helps. Using a zorro card is usually alot slower than onboard scsi(other than fastlane z3/4091).
without the battery you cant set the scsito synchronous which gives better speed.
mech
-
The A3000 is, I think, the only Amiga model that stores some SCSI controller settings in memory that is backed by that battery (in addition to the Real Time Clock). Probably, default values are used if the memory is corrupt, don't know for sure.
It is not difficult to substitute a better battery AND remotely mount it so a leak is much less consequential. I personally prefer rechargable cordless phone batteries.
No offense ,but i think its dumb to mount ANY battery in a amiga that can leak when there are better alternatives like coin cells.
what you guys don't realize is the leaking batteries often outgas when they leak which is why on some amiga boards you may see corrosion far away from the battery on other components.the fumes inside the case travel.
If you don't like the typical 3volt CR2032 cells, use the LIR2032,its a rechargeable coin cell lithium that fits inthe same cell holder (you must still use the diode),but it starts at 3.6v instead of 3v and will generally be better off with the diode voltage drop and last longer. there are external wall chargers to recharge this coin cell,like the old cr2032, again it should never be charged by the amiga.
The 3000's battery mem holds several things, it allows the use of LUNS,it holds time and date,and allows you to set scsi into synchronous mode for better speed. it also holds settings for Speeding ramsey for ram access if i recall.
Mech
-
This is how i replaced my battery in my 3000D
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1903/25516680.jpg)
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/323/19582572.jpg)
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/9374/58941323.jpg)
You did a nice job but it will eventually leak. It will now corrode the front of the case and possible led board now when you forget about it in some years. You have only relocated the problem.
mech
-
No offense ,but i think its dumb to mount ANY battery in a amiga that can leak when there are better alternatives like coin cells.
what you guys don't realize is the leaking batteries often outgas when they leak which is why on some amiga boards you may see corrosion far away from the battery on other components.the fumes inside the case travel.
If you don't like the typical 3volt CR2032 cells, use the LIR2032,its a rechargeable coin cell lithium that fits inthe same cell holder (you must still use the diode),but it starts at 3.6v instead of 3v and will generally be better off with the diode voltage drop and last longer. there are external wall chargers to recharge this coin cell,like the old cr2032, again it should never be charged by the amiga.
The 3000's battery mem holds several things, it allows the use of LUNS,it holds time and date,and allows you to set scsi into synchronous mode for better speed. it also holds settings for Speeding ramsey for ram access if i recall.
Mech
Hi Mech,
Excuse my ignorance in the matter. Cells type batteries will never leak? If true then this would be the best approach.
-
I'm not worried about my replacement battery leaking because it's sealed in shrink wrap. The A3000 will boot using default SCSI settings without a battery but if you want to use synchronous mode or need the long SCSI time out you need a battery! Also, certain disk utilities will report an error if you have files newer than the boot drive creation date.
You don't need the battery for "SpeedRamsey" you just need Ramsey 07, but if you have fast enough memory you can just set the Ramsey Speed jumper to 16 MHz.
-
You also need the battery to enable LUNs (SCSI card reader, etc.). Can't boot to my CF card without LUNs enabled.
I don't think that shrink wrap will stop battery leakage, but I'm no expert.
-
Hi Mech,
Excuse my ignorance in the matter. Cells type batteries will never leak? If true then this would be the best approach.
that is correct, the lithium coin cells do not leak.
NiMh and original nicad barrel style can both leak and cause damage.
Its a misconception that NiMh is a safe replacement,it is not.
Mech
-
If you use 3volt CR2032 cell with the holder, do you still need a diode with it? I see some for sale with out it. Or if used a 3.6v phone battery, do you need a diode with that? lol or is it just easy enough to say use a diode with every battery but the barrel type. Sorry don't know much on this and rather ask looking stupid then pull a stupid and do it wrong.
lost
-
If you use 3volt CR2032 cell with the holder, do you still need a diode with it? I see some for sale with out it. Or if used a 3.6v phone battery, do you need a diode with that? lol or is it just easy enough to say use a diode with every battery but the barrel type. Sorry don't know much on this and rather ask looking stupid then pull a stupid and do it wrong.
lost
You need a diode if you will be using a non-rechargeble battery becouse the motherbaord will be trying to charge the battery when turned on. the phone battery can be recharged therefore you do not need the diode.
The diodes job is to let the current only move in one direction so the motherboard will not be able to deliver any to the battery, the battery will only be able to deliver to the motherboard.
-
You need a diode if you will be using a non-rechargeble battery becouse the motherbaord will be trying to charge the battery when turned on. the phone battery can be recharged therefore you do not need the diode.
The diodes job is to let the current only move in one direction so the motherboard will not be able to deliver any to the battery, the battery will only be able to deliver to the motherboard.
Wires to a rechargable phone battery away off the motherboard is the best idea. Sometimes a 2032 lithium coin battery will still drop the RTC because they are only 3v and the Amiga's RTC chip expects 3.5v.
Not having a diode in the circuit and alowing a 2032 lithium coin battery to charge will lead to VERY undesirable results.
-
the Amiga's RTC chip expects 3.5v.
I thought the chips usually run about @ 2+ Volts (my A500 expansion did have a 2.4V battery...)
-
Seems like there isn't a consensus that the lithium coin cell is the optimal choice for battery solution.
So far:
+
Coin Cells will not leak.
Phone batteries can be recharged and therefore don't need a diode.
Both solutions can be mounted remotely.
-
Coin Cell will explode without proper installation of the diode.
Phone batteries are still prone to leak over time.
Anyone want to point out other +,- ?.
-
Wires to a rechargable phone battery away off the motherboard is the best idea. Sometimes a 2032 lithium coin battery will still drop the RTC because they are only 3v and the Amiga's RTC chip expects 3.5v.
Not having a diode in the circuit and alowing a 2032 lithium coin battery to charge will lead to VERY undesirable results.
That is exactly what i did with my phone battery if you take a look at the pictures i posted on the first page.
Using the same solution on my 3000T
-
LIR2032 lithium coin battery is 3.6V.
-
LIR2032 lithium coin battery is 3.6V.
Never even knew about these Kremlar. These are Li-Ion rechargable. No need for a diode and at 3.6v would seem to be purpose made for the Amiga...
What's more they're all over ePay.
-
Mech lead me to these. However he still recommends the diode, but perhaps he can explain why.
-
You also need the battery to enable LUNs (SCSI card reader, etc.). Can't boot to my CF card without LUNs enabled.
I don't think that shrink wrap will stop battery leakage, but I'm no expert.
That's interesting that you need LUNs enabled to use a CF card. I would ask mechy if he knows how to configure your SCSI/CF adapter to work without LUN's enabled.
I don't expect the shrink wrap to stop battery leakage. It just expect it to contain it enough to prevent damage to the motherboard.
Also, since I don't need a diode I can expect the RTC/memory to run a lot longer than with the coin battery hack. The rechargeable battery charges to approx. 4 volts and has > 100x the current capacity of a coin battery.
-
Looks like the LIR2032 can be found for under $10.00 with a "smart" charger and 2 batteries (free shipping).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMART-CHARGER-FOR-3-6V-LIR2032-LI-ION-BUTTON-CELL-BATTERIES-2-BATTERIES-NEW-/360451661644?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53ec97df4c
I am sure they can be found cheaper - but this easy....
-
That's interesting that you need LUNs enabled to use a CF card. I would ask mechy if he knows how to configure your SCSI/CF adapter to work without LUN's enabled.
You can boot without LUNs if you use a PCMCIA to CF card adapter. If you want to use the CF card directly you need LUNs.
-
Dam! look at what i am doing now because of all this talk!
[ATTACH]2123[/ATTACH]
lost
-
Dam! look at what i am doing now because of all this talk!
[ATTACH]2123[/ATTACH]
lost
Show us the final product!
-
Here is the PORN! And she is naked!
[ATTACH]2124[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]2125[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]2126[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]2128[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]2129[/ATTACH]
-
More!
[ATTACH]2130[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]2131[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]2132[/ATTACH]
Had to move the battery on top of the drive there because the cover would not slide all the on.. gonna have to think of another location later.
she all works and charging up now!
lost
-
Wierd, i mounted my battery on the first location you picked out and there where no problem what so ever to slide on the top cover.
-
Different size battery. I guess next time i will get something smaller.. Who knew these things are so costly. Average price was about $25 CDN for a 3.6v but the source (Radio Shake) had this one on for 14.29 and I missed out on the other ones which was smaller for on sale for 9.99. Oh well. Actually scared my self on this one, after i wired it all in the system didn't boot at all. It showed the same symptoms that (i think it was Matt3k) had with his.. even down to the caps pressing it 6 times and then nothing. I was freaking lol..I thought the cpu had fried or something. So between last night and this morning swapping hard drives, scsi cables and chips and what not. Found it to be the motherboard somehow was grounding itself out. I think i was lucky cause all is working now. But that was after i stripped it all down right out of the case again and looked at everything i touched! I should of known better cause when i was replacing the screws in the ports in the back (serial vga etc) the right side screws were abit tight, Alarms in brain should of went off there. Long story short and lesson learned.. TAKE YOUR TIME! and I am not going to mention the legs i bent on the indivision i bent lol. opps did i say that. All works so woot!
lost
-
Wires to a rechargable phone battery away off the motherboard is the best idea. Sometimes a 2032 lithium coin battery will still drop the RTC because they are only 3v and the Amiga's RTC chip expects 3.5v.
Not having a diode in the circuit and alowing a 2032 lithium coin battery to charge will lead to VERY undesirable results.
the amiga wants 3.6v, which is why i suggest the LIR2032 which is a lithium coin that starts with 3.6v. it will go much longer than 3v coins and is rechargeable on a wall charger(not in amiga). This battery will fit the standard cr2032 holer also. just remember to use a diode.
mech
-
That's interesting that you need LUNs enabled to use a CF card. I would ask mechy if he knows how to configure your SCSI/CF adapter to work without LUN's enabled.
I don't expect the shrink wrap to stop battery leakage. It just expect it to contain it enough to prevent damage to the motherboard.
Also, since I don't need a diode I can expect the RTC/memory to run a lot longer than with the coin battery hack. The rechargeable battery charges to approx. 4 volts and has > 100x the current capacity of a coin battery.
the pcd-50B scsi card readers are hard wired with pcmcia slot as lun 0.. so you can use that slot with a pcmcia adapter and cf card and not use luns, you simply will not have access to the other slots like cf,sd/mmc,smart media,and sony memstik which is ok if you just want a cf for a HD.
having the other slots hot swappable can be handy.
I have coin cells going on 5 years and still working btw. the LIR2032 should go way longer before voltage drops too low.
I feel you guys should quit recommending batteries that can leak when we have a better solution,haven't we lost enough nice amigas? i'm tired of fixing battery damaged traces :)
-Mech-
-
Sigh.. another leak waiting to happen down the road :(
-mech-
-
Sigh.. another leak waiting to happen down the road :(
-mech-
Ok Mech,
I think you sold me on them. I am researching on switching over to them, I know they are not suppose to leak, but has anyone in the world ever had one leak?
If yes, I will still mount if off the mb.
Regards,
Matt
-
Ok Mech,
I think you sold me on them. I am researching on switching over to them, I know they are not suppose to leak, but has anyone in the world ever had one leak?
If yes, I will still mount if off the mb.
Regards,
Matt
all you have to do is look at the chemestry of them. they don't leak.. i have been using them for 10+ years. never a failure.they must have the diode to isolate them tho or they can pop lol.
mech
-
I thought the chips usually run about @ 2+ Volts (my A500 expansion did have a 2.4V battery...)
you probably have a different clock chip, many different ones were used on expansions, we are mainly taking for amiga motherboards like 2000,3000,4000 etc which use a Ricoh rp5c01 chip.
-
From the Ricoh datasheet...
FEATURES
• Connected directly to CPU • 4bit bidirectional data bus : D0 - D3 • 4bit address input : A0 - A3
• Built-in clock counter (hour, minute, second) and calendar counter (leap year, year, month, day, day-of-the-week)
• Supports both 12-hour AM/PM clock and 24-hour clock
• All clock data expressed in BCD codes • ±30 second adjustment function
• Backed up by batteries (minimum:2.2V) etc.
-
the pcd-50B scsi card readers are hard wired with pcmcia slot as lun 0.. so you can use that slot with a pcmcia adapter and cf card and not use luns, you simply will not have access to the other slots like cf,sd/mmc,smart media,and sony memstik which is ok if you just want a cf for a HD.
having the other slots hot swappable can be handy.
I have coin cells going on 5 years and still working btw. the LIR2032 should go way longer before voltage drops too low.
I feel you guys should quit recommending batteries that can leak when we have a better solution,haven't we lost enough nice amigas? i'm tired of fixing battery damaged traces :)
-Mech-
The problem is that it takes longer for the scsi.device to scan LUN's so the time you could save booting from CF is negated by the LUN scan. You can set LAST_LUN flag on RDB after CF drive is found but a cold boot will cause all LUN's to be rescanned if LUN's are enabled.
I didn't recommend a battery that would leak on the motherboard. The double sided adhesive tape is an extra barrier in addition to the shrink wrap. I simply offered an alternative solution. FYI coin batteries are not leak proof either. My ex's calculator had 2 which died, leaked and corroded the battery terminals. I didn't like fixing that very much either!