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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: mechy on April 09, 2012, 07:24:57 PM
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sad news but it looks like jack has expired.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/09/computer-legend-and-gaming-pioneer-jack-tramiel-dies-at-age-83/
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Jack Tramiel was my hero. He saved my life.
C64 4ever!
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Jack Tramiel was my hero. He saved my life.
C64 4ever!
The guy that developed the Atari ST saved your life?
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Jack Tramiel was my hero. He saved my life.
C64 4ever!
+ 1
:)
One must have lived it to understand it..... C64 forever ! :D
Rest in peace, Jack.
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R.i.p :-(
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The guy that developed the Atari ST saved your life?
The father of the C64 saved my life and then had his company stolen from him by the Islamic Crime Syndicate in cahoots with other criminals who then intentionally destroyed the company. A classic case of Corporate Assassination (corporacide).
This made him so insanely angry that he made that stupid Atari ST.
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If not for Jack Tramiel's "computing for the masses, not the classes" pricing philosophy, I wouldn't have been able to afford a computer in 1983. By all accounts, he was a nightmare to work with, but I was personally enriched by his contribution to the world of consumer electronics.
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One of those persons that you don't even know personally but that have a huge impact in your life. Somehow, he changed my life in 1986 and I didn't notice at the time.
Rest in Peace Jack Tramiel!
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sad news but it looks like jack has expired.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/09/computer-legend-and-gaming-pioneer-jack-tramiel-dies-at-age-83/
Respect the inventors, engineering and other early IT home computing heroes!
Sad to see them gone!
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RIP :(
My first computer was C64c.
Here is a nice interview with Jack and others during C64 25th Anniversary Celebration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBvbsPNBIyk
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Aw damn. That's sad news indeed. Commodore and its affordable computers have brought me a lot of joy growing up. I like to believe I owe a lot to this early exposure to home computing.
Thank you Jack for your "computers for the masses" and may you rest in peace.
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Sad to hear it.I just checked 2 weeks ago on the net about jack tramiel cos i thought he was dead.But he was still alive and kicking in his eighties.reading commodore a company on the edge it paints him as a ruthless but intelligent business man.His mantra of computers for the masses not for the classes was an excellent strategy.Man i love amigas.Rest in peace jacky boy.
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Tramiel is hardly the 'father' of the C64 or ST - that's more like Shiraz Shivji (well, one of the 64's fathers at least).
Sad to see him go though. :( R. I. P. Jack
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Respect!
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RIP Jack!
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Sad just saw the news on my FB news feed :(. I can honestly say that if the C64 had never been made my life would be different to say the least. The C64 was my first computer and had/ have a blast using it. Yep she still works :)
Rich
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Sad just saw the news on my FB news feed :(. I can honestly say that if the C64 had never been made my life would be different to say the least. The C64 was my first computer and had/ have a blast using it. Yep she still works :)
Rich
+1
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Sad news. He was a true pioneer.
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Sad just saw the news on my FB news feed :(. I can honestly say that if the C64 had never been made my life would be different to say the least. The C64 was my first computer and had/ have a blast using it. Yep she still works :)
Rich
+2
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The father of the C64 saved my life and then had his company stolen from him by the Islamic Crime Syndicate in cahoots with other criminals who then intentionally destroyed the company. A classic case of Corporate Assassination (corporacide).
This must be an all time most ridiculous comment, surely?
If you're intent on bringing religion or ethnicity into it: He was jewish, and was forced out by Irving Gould, also jewish. So how you manage to get Islam into it is beyond me.
It was also pretty clearly "just" business: Gould and Tramiel were both flawed in their separate but very human ways. Gould was in it for the money and control and prestige, but was relatively clueless about the business. Tramiel desperately wanted it to be "his" family enterprise the way it had been before he had to turn to Tramiel for an investment to save the company. He kept running the company that was as it grew into a major multinational, and he also wanted his sons into important positions when they were old enough, something which worried Gould immensely when Tramiel was pushing for it just as Commodore had hit the big leagues. Recipe for a major conflict.
It's easy to blame Gould for it in retrospect, especially since he utterly failed in getting a replacement that had any much clue about what he was doing, but it's hard to tell how Tramiel would've managed either - the guy burned out executives faster than other people burn through cigars.
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The guy that developed the Atari ST saved your life?
Jack was kicked out of his own co. Commodore because he wanted to slash prices and so dominate market share.
He bought Atari with all his cash available and the ST (better than both EGA PC and Mono Macintosh btw) was all he could produce with time/money/resources he had as Warner's Atari he bought was hemorrhaging money faster than even Commodore ever did in AGA years.
Back on topic, this is horrible news. VIC/PET/C64 have more style and class than any computer/console made to date.
World would have been a lot less fun had he not started that little typewriter repair company which would one day become the producers of the finest computers the world has ever seen.
RIP :(
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RIP. Jack Tramiel.
Commodore was vital to many people getting hold of computers who may not have been otherwise able.
Cheers Jack (and all those hard-working, creative Commodore people).
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Poke 53280,0
Poke 53281,0
:(
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The POKEs to black - what a great tribute to the founder of Commodore.
Didn't he move to Toronto, Canada and start his typewriter company (Commodore) there. The article (incorrectly?) states:
"Tramiel was rescued in April 1945 and emigrated to the United States in 1947. In America, Tramiel started a typewriter repair business."
[edit] ... just checked Wikipedia...
"In 1953, while working as a taxi driver, he bought a shop in the Bronx to repair office machinery,[4] and named it Commodore Portable Typewriter. Tramiel secured a $25,000 loan for the business from a U.S. Army entitlement.[5] In 1955, Tramiel signed a deal with a Czechoslovak company to assemble and sell their typewriters in North America. However, as Czechoslovakia was part of the Warsaw Pact, they could not be imported directly into the U.S., so Tramiel set up Commodore Business Machines in Toronto.[4] Tramiel wanted a military-style name for his company, but names like Admiral and General were already taken, so he settled on the Commodore name.[6]"
So I guess he was American and started a company called Commodore there to repair typewriters, but later founded the company called Commodore Business Machines in Toronto that grew into the international computer company we knew and loved.
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If you believe in reincarnation....
SYS 64738
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@Vidarh
Mehdi Ali is an Islamic Terrorist who infiltrates non-Islamic (preferably Jewish, but any will do) companies and then whoopsy, "accidentally" bankrupts them. He then brags on his website that what he did was a "great success".
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ChaosLord
Be careful my friend, you're treading on dangerous territory, lets not induce religion in this.
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@DreamCast270Mhz
If you value happiness over truth then then just call him an Atheist Terrorist who assassinated the world's best computer company. You'll be lying but at least you will be mostly telling the truth and you will be happy. KTHNXL8RBYE
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RIP :(
My first computer was C64c.
Here is a nice interview with Jack and others during C64 25th Anniversary Celebration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBvbsPNBIyk
Man, its funny to watch Jack and Woz trade jabs. There is no love lost there!
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A pretty good example that sometimes evil people can bring good to the world.
RIP and thank you.
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Great guy, RIP
(thought he died a few years ago ! Stunned to see this news .. )
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Sad news. RIP Jack
My first computer was a CBM4032 followed by a C64 while you were still running Commodore. By all accounts you were a hard task master but, given your personal family history (Auschwitz survivor) it's perhaps no surprise.
I wonder how the Amiga (& Commodore) would have turned out if you had remained at Commodore? It will be interesting to see how the revisionist Microsoft/Apple media commemorate one of the great icons of the Personal computer age.
TrevorD
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RIP Mr Jack Tramiel!. a visionary who are already scarce
:angel:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-57411467-235/commodore-founder-jack-tramiel-dies-at-83/?tag=mncol;editorPicks (http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-57411467-235/commodore-founder-jack-tramiel-dies-at-83/?tag=mncol;editorPicks)
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Sad news. RIP Jack
My first computer was a CBM4032 followed by a C64 while you were still running Commodore. By all accounts you were a hard task master but, given your personal family history (Auschwitz survivor) it's perhaps no surprise.
I wonder how the Amiga (& Commodore) would have turned out if you had remained at Commodore? It will be interesting to see how the revisionist Microsoft/Apple media commemorate one of the great icons of the Personal computer age.
TrevorD
Not a word on the BBC website...
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Man, its funny to watch Jack and Woz trade jabs. There is no love lost there!
Frankly, Woz is massively overrated, so I'm not surprised.
He seems like a lovable enough guy, and a good engineer (or at least he was), but he only gets the amount credit he gets because he left Apple before the going got tough, and because Apple did very well in the US and particularly on the West coast and even more specifically with West coast "hackers", many of whom later ended up in tech journalism, while Commodore ultimately failed and did best outside the US. It's survivor bias (for Apple) coupled with a lot of revisionism, an amazing marketing and PR machine at Apple even in the early days, and lack of perspective. Unfortunately it seems like Woz has come to believe a lot of the hype that's gotten attached to him over the years.
That's not to say that they guy didn't do amazing stuff, but a lot of other people did amazing stuff too, including people like Tramiel and Chuck Peddle (people's written about him that while Woz made a machine starting with chips made by Peddle, Chuck Peddle made a machine by starting with sand; and Peddle himself reportedly said to Tramiel a few years ago that while Tramiel "ruined his life" he is still thankful to Tramiel for giving him the chance to change peoples lives that he wouldn't otherwise had), and a bunch of later Commodore engineers, as well as people elsewhere.
While the early Apple's by all account were good machines (never seen one in real-life - they were non-entities in Norway where I grew up), they were for most intents a niche product for middle class Americans, and for a very long time not a very successful one. Commodore, Texas Instruments, Sinclair and Tandy/Radio Shack all did vastly more to popularize computing than Apple did in its early years.
The veneration for Jobs is more understandable - his turnaround of Apple after his return, coupled with his successes with Pixar and Next and the way he hung in there at Apple while battling cancer and losing -, is the stuff of legends whether or not you like the guy.
But Woz was a one hit wonder that went on to live off his one success and image and hasn't really done anything of note since the early 80's (unless you count driving a Segway around and waiting in line at Apple stores for no good reason). Nothing wrong with that, and something to dream of being able to do if that's the lifestyle you want, but not really worth the level of admiration he gets.
A lot of the lack of credit both to Commodore people and others comes down to the US bias in the computer press and survivor bias, coupled with the desire for a lovable or admirable hero or anti-hero to build up. Tramiel wasn't as charismatic as Jobs, and not as lovable as Woz. And the engineers in Commodore has not really been made as visible to anyone without a special interest.
In many ways, the biggest difference between Tramiel and the two Steve's is probably that Tramiel was way more human than Jobs (for both good and bad - his tempers are of course famous, but so is his dedication to his family, to the extent that he was willing to lose Commodore at least in part over his sons involvement), and way more committed and determined than Woz (in that way he was probably closer to Jobs).
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I quite liked this obituary (http://www.siliconvalley.com/mike-cassidy/ci_20359712/mike-cassidy-jack-tramiel-commodore-64-pioneer-died) at siliconvalley.com as it's not just the "copy and paste and slightly adjust wording" that most of the other obituaries comes off as.
CNet's obituary is quite good too. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-57411467-235/commodore-founder-jack-tramiel-dies-at-83/), and links to a great interview with Jack from 2007.
Also, Michael Tomczyk, who became largely responsible for the marketing of the VIC-20 (and the foreword to its manual) has updated his website with some quite nice additions about Tramiel (http://www.michaeltomczyk.com/Tech-Pioneer.php).
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Frankly, Woz is massively overrated, so I'm not surprised.
He seems like a lovable enough guy, and a good engineer (or at least he was), but he only gets the amount credit he gets because he left Apple before the going got tough, and because Apple did very well in the US and particularly on the West coast and even more specifically with West coast "hackers", many of whom later ended up in tech journalism, while Commodore ultimately failed and did best outside the US. It's survivor bias (for Apple) coupled with a lot of revisionism, an amazing marketing and PR machine at Apple even in the early days, and lack of perspective. Unfortunately it seems like Woz has come to believe a lot of the hype that's gotten attached to him over the years.
In many ways, the biggest difference between Tramiel and the two Steve's is probably that Tramiel was way more human than Jobs (for both good and bad - his tempers are of course famous, but so is his dedication to his family, to the extent that he was willing to lose Commodore at least in part over his sons involvement), and way more committed and determined than Woz (in that way he was probably closer to Jobs).
Oddly, you didn't mention that U.S. schools were FULL of Apple computers in the early 80's. That was the key to their early success- marketing as an "education" machine when it was no better than its contemporaries. This led to alot of home sales with no technical qualification whatsoever, and the high cost fed the status and prestige. The Apple ]['s were costly enough, and the Lisa and Mac were too expensive to buy in bulk.
This created the vacuum filled by the C64. (And some others of course)
Anyway RIP Jack.
P.S. As far as the Islamoterror infiltration thing- none of these guys died poor. Just a thought.
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I would like to add my 2cents to all of this too:
Commodore will always be apart of me for both the Commodore64/128 and the Amiga line. Commodore and Jack made it possible for a whole generation to own a computer and that was a jumping off point for so many careers, innovations, and personal lives. I am happy to say that I was in that group.
My experience with a Commodore 64 in 1983 (for Christmas) was the most life-changing product I've ever owned. Jack's passing is another mark in my history of getting older and watching those that have come before me pass into history.
I think Jack touched many people's lives and whether he was as ruthless as the stories paint him I do not know. I am just glad for the good that he has done and wish him well in the next life.
Thank you Jack.
RIP
-P
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CNet's obituary is quite good too. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-57411467-235/commodore-founder-jack-tramiel-dies-at-83/), and links to a great interview with Jack from 2007.
Thanks for the link, this qoute down below I agree with a 100 %
When I was in high school, it seemed like there was almost a culture war between users of the Commodore 64, the Apple IIe, and the Atari 800. What do you think was different about the machines and the people who used them?
Tramiel: The only difference was the price. Because it seems that in this country, if you sell something cheaper, it can't be as good. If it's more expensive, and it's the same product, it must be a better product. That didn't stop me. I still wanted to sell it for a low price. But if a person pays three times as much for a computer, he has to be proud of it, because he paid for it. He can't call himself stupid.
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My first computer was a Commodore 64. I loved that thing, and I'm still amazed by what it could achieve with so little. We'll miss you Jack.
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My first computer was a Commodore 64. I loved that thing, and I'm still amazed by what it could achieve with so little. We'll miss you Jack.
I know how you feel. Mine was 1982 and a ZX81 + 16K. Anyone who pioneered at that time was a life changer. RIP.
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Oddly, you didn't mention that U.S. schools were FULL of Apple computers in the early 80's.
Commodore had the same strategy here in Canada. Canadian schools were full of PETs and C64s. So naturally every parent bought for their child the same computer that was being used in the schools.
Nary and Apple to be seen in schools here.
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Commodore had the same strategy here in Canada. Canadian schools were full of PETs and C64s. So naturally every parent bought for their child the same computer that was being used in the schools.
Nary and Apple to be seen in schools here.
Commodore did that in the US too at one point, but they reduced focus on the US market because they could sell PET's at a far higher markup in Europe and elsewhere, while the US market was far more competitive, and they had problems ramping up production early on.
In retrospect perhaps that was a mistake - it bought them important revenue, but when the time came to try to boost their presence in the US again with the VIC-20 and C-64, they'd lost a lot of mindshare.
They even had a PET version with networking and software that let the teacher remote control the other PET's in the class room etc.
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Poke 53280,0
Poke 53281,0
:(
Exactly.
I did plenty of time on Pet4032 back in the day, then went on to dig into the C64 even more.
I still have that C64 and it still runs just as good as ever. I might have to dust this and the C128 off and start them up soon.
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May he rest in peace...
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Apple IIc's in my grade school - but my dad thought computers were a fad and I never got one of my own until my A1200 in college.
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I would like to add my 2cents to all of this too:
Commodore will always be apart of me for both the Commodore64/128 and the Amiga line. Commodore and Jack made it possible for a whole generation to own a computer and that was a jumping off point for so many careers, innovations, and personal lives. I am happy to say that I was in that group.
My experience with a Commodore 64 in 1983 (for Christmas) was the most life-changing product I've ever owned. Jack's passing is another mark in my history of getting older and watching those that have come before me pass into history.
I think Jack touched many people's lives and whether he was as ruthless as the stories paint him I do not know. I am just glad for the good that he has done and wish him well in the next life.
Thank you Jack.
RIP
-P
I couldn't be more agree with you, I feel exactly the same way. The Commodore 64, my first computer, changed my life forever.
Thank you, Jack.
D.
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Apple IIc's in my grade school - but my dad thought computers were a fad and I never got one of my own until my A1200 in college.
PC's in my school in the 80s and early 90s.
One of the youth clubs I went to had 64's and later some A500's.
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I was not a C64 user, but had Amigas since 1992. I didn't even know much about Jack Tramiel before reading this book "Commodore Company on the Edge". So I have deepest respect to The man. Indeed, very sad he left his own company in 1984.
R.I.P.
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Was no doubt Jack was a complete ballbuster to work for - however given his background of having to fight tooth and nail for success, coming from a concentration camp to North America, it's quite understandable he was particular in his ways. Fight your way up the ladder from the bottom, you'll inevitably step on some toes, and Jack got a lot of bad press for that. Oddly, Steve Jobs was worse, but in retrospect is now lauded as a sheer visionary rather than the cut-throat (and borderline neurotic/abusive) businessman he was.
I never owned a Commodore 64, but used them a fair bit back in the day. Tramiel is one of the ones that got computers to the masses, and while I do think he did so for profit value to some extent (good intentions don't pay the bills, after all), I firmly believe he had some revolutionary motives and simply wanted people exposed to this new medium of home computers. That in itself is something to be admired - the "home computer" market was virtually non existent back then.
I know for certain I would have gotten into computers far, far later if the offerings from Commodore were not so affordable for the masses. I never owned a 64, but they undoubtedly sparked my interest, an interest I have to this day in all things "computer".
Back then, everyone had a VIC or a 64. Apple offerings were 3-4x the cost of a C= 64 and were only generally found in schools in my area at the time - the VIC and 64 series were truly revolutionary back then, and I fondly remember spending weekends with a now deceased friend, typing in BASIC programs from the popular print magazines at the time on his 64.
He was also a co-founder of the US Holocaust Museum, another noteworthy cause.
RIP Jack - if it wasn't for you and your ideals of computers for the masses, I can safely say many of us here wouldn't have the passion we have for computers right now.
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And Steve Jobs will still be celebrated less accurately than he should be...weird.
Apple still applies the concept of computers for the classes not for the masses...double weird.
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I was a big fan of the first Atari founder, Nolan Bushnell, as my Dad had been a purchaser of early Pong games, and when the Atari VCS came out in 1977, he purchased one - I mean he just bought one, full price, no questions asked :)
I followed along with my Dad's loyalty to Atari, buying an Atari 400, later an 800XL, and later kind of watched the whole thing collapse, both in terms of losing the 8-bit war to Commodore, and the collapse of the video game market under Warner.
Then a curious thing occurred, Tramiel left Commodore, formed Atari Corp. from the ashes of the old Atari.
I didn't know anything about him, my friends in the Commodore community weren't sure we were getting such a gift. But man, he launched that Atari ST, and Atari was back on top.
And I'll always have fond memories of the ST, as I do of the Commodore 64 and the not-dead Amiga.
Tramiel - rest in peace dude. Thanks for the ST, and more fun years with Atari. I'll overlook that whole JTS reverse merger, where I lost my investment (tiny one at that).
I'll echo what others are saying, Tramiel was an early pioneer, and for that I have great respect for him.
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Man, its funny to watch Jack and Woz trade jabs. There is no love lost there!
Actually, in the pre-show they had a long discussion (about an hour or so) with each other, both smiling and laughing. You can see a photo of that at
http://techland.time.com/2012/04/09/improbable-pc-pioneer-commodores-jack-tramiel-1928-2011/
I observed them from a balcony, me not being a VIP allowed to join that pre-show on the ground floor.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
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Ok.. that's it. I've just decided that for the month of April, and every April after this one .. I vow to set up my C64, 1702 and all the extras etc..etc in Jack's honor.
(If I had the space it would never be put away :-).. ).
Rich
NY..
Pics to follow. I know this is the Amiga forum, will anyone be offending if I posted them here??
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Ok.. that's it. I've just decided that for the month of April, and every April after this one .. I vow to set up my C64, 1702 and all the extras etc..etc in Jack's honor.
(If I had the space it would never be put away :-).. ).
Rich
NY..
Pics to follow. I know this is the Amiga forum, will anyone be offending if I posted them here??
Well, FWIW, I won't be -- I have my C128 and 1571 on my desk with my Amiga 2000 and the gear for my main PC. I built a cable and it is connected to the 42" plasma across the room. :D Maybe I should play a few games in Jack's honor.
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Rest in peace Mr. Power Without The Price and Mr. Jackintosh!
I was born and raised Atari and never did the whole Commodore or Amiga thing until now with my Amiga stuff.
I for one was happy Jack founded Atari Corp and made the Atari a success for at least a little while.
Thanks Jack and Family.
Sorry to hear Jack passed.
Remember the good times.
TJ
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Alas. Mr Tramiel was worth a hundred of Steve Jobs. I suspect if he had remained at the helm of Commodore, the Amiga would now dominate the industry.
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Ok.. that's it. I've just decided that for the month of April, and every April after this one .. I vow to set up my C64, 1702 and all the extras etc..etc in Jack's honor.
(If I had the space it would never be put away :-).. ).
Rich
NY..
Pics to follow. I know this is the Amiga forum, will anyone be offending if I posted them here??
Hi,
Yeah! I would be offended, post them on a C64 board, I just won't allow it. This is an Amiga board, what the heck are you doing posting C64 on Amiga boards.
OK seeing that this a special occassion honoring Jack, I will let you slide this time, but don't ever try this again, or I will, will, will, will, will, will, will pout a lot.
Nothing more annoying than a pouting smerf with a pancake on his head
smerf
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Alas. Mr Tramiel was worth a hundred of Steve Jobs. I suspect if he had remained at the helm of Commodore, the Amiga would now dominate the industry.
Hi,
Why do you underrate Jack so much, he was worth way more that a hundred Steve Jobs, he was worth pi to the umpteenth power, and that is a lot of Steve Jobs. I wonder if both of them are carrying on the competition up there.
smerf
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I was very sad to hear of Jack's passing. I wish his family well in this terrible time.
I am coping with his death in the only way I know how. Via Meme's.
http://i.imgur.com/gAVuB.jpg
RIP Jack, I wish we could have had you around until you were 183.
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Here Here RIP Jack! I guess due to commodores initial success thats the reason why Im an IT worker now.
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Amiga.org was the first place where I saw the news. Very sorry to hear Jack having passed away. I have been reading the "On the edge" book again and again (currently having the new edition underway).
Thanks, Jack, for everything C= you made possible
:(
Yesterday I put up a small "In memoriam"- display at work (school). I had already my C64 and SX-64 at work, so I printed the Forbes news item and put them all on show at the teachers lounge. I am sorry to see how very little news coverage there has been in local medias.
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At least Jack was willing to come out in recent times and fill us in on the details before he went. Too bad about the turn of events that took his company away from him. A guy like that made computing interesting.
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Just read this on CNET. Made me quite sad! His key contribution was out before I was born (the c64) but his contribution to bringing computing to everybody can still be felt! Unfortunate his contribution won't be recognised like Steve jobs.