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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: SysAdmin on March 28, 2012, 06:44:13 PM
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News via amigaworld.net
The second public beta release is currently uploading to os4depot.net
This new version improves some features of the first beta, and fixes some of the bugs. In essence, the main improvements are as follows:
- Splash screen when starting up (to show something is happening)
- Crash fixes. For example, clicking the zip box no longer crashes
- Right-click popup menus work now
- Downloads work now
- Timberwolf now uses a native ASL file requester instead of the alien file picker
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Interesting but still needs tons of work... downloads do work now as long as you don't download anything to ram disk:... GUI is still slow and so is render speed. Nice, but still not usable.
Good work tho!
Cheers,
Dragster
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And, of course, you could always just use Fab's version of OWB which works fine and doesn't have any significant bugs.
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OWB is great but having timberwolf working is also very important. The bigger choice of softwares we have the better.
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Are they ever going to release the source code per the gpl of firefox or do they still planning on trying to illegally keep their port closed source and try and charge people money for a firefox port which violates the gpl?
And why won't anyone answer this very valid question anywhere?
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Are they ever going to release the source code per the gpl of firefox or do they still planning on trying to illegally keep their port closed source and try and charge people money for a firefox port which violates the gpl?
And why won't anyone answer this very valid question anywhere?
Mozilla Firefox is not under GPL, it's under MPL (http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/)
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And, of course, you could always just use Fab's version of OWB which works fine and doesn't have any significant bugs.
You do understand what a Beta is...
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And why won't anyone answer this very valid question anywhere?
You might wanna try to ask that on AW.net, Amigans.net or hyperion.biz. ;-)
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It's already been asked there... and answered.
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Aren't the donations to Timberwolf voluntary?
Varthall
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I hate to mention this, and I know I will probably get flamed for it, but am I the only OS4.1.5 user that has any concern that the amount of time coding Timberwolf is taking coding time away from finishing drivers for the SAM460ex and AmigaOne X1000, plus other parts of OS4.1.x?
I mean the amount of programming resources available to Hyperion for working on OS4.1.x and beyond is very limited.
Or are there different programmers who are assigned to work on drivers and work on Timberwolf has no effect on anything else that needs to be done on drivers and other parts of OS4.x?
Not meant to be a criticism, but just a concern I have thought of once or twice.
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@amigadave
Well, since they're doing it in their spare time, it shouldn't have too much of an impact. Hyperion aren't paying them to work on Timberwolf so if they don't work on the OS, they don't get paid. I guess they just spend all their waking hours coding :p
@haywirepc
If you're actually interested in the source code and not just trolling, they will of course give it to you. All you have to do is ask.
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They're not breaking any rules, but you have to admit that requiring people to ask for code to an open source project is obnoxious, antisocial and goes against the grain of what opensource is all about. The brothers should have just put it out on github instead of blowing their gaskets and acting like brats on the forum when asked about the situation with the code.
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@amigadave
Well, since they're doing it in their spare time, it shouldn't have too much of an impact.
You do understand that *everything* is being developed in *everyone's* spare time, don't you?
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Timberwolf evolves nicely, if the updates continues to come within a few weeks between them timberwolf will soon become a good alternative to OWB. i guess there will be atleast 2 more updates before it's time to work on the performance and then the fun will start :) for now it loads most sites within an resonable time but some others like facebooks seems to be hopeless, maybe something to do with network activity? even searching/connecting to a page eats lots of cpu for a long time. The gui works good & i can live with the slow scrolling speed for now so there's not really that much to fix before it can be an everyday browser.
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You do understand what a Beta is...
Of course, it means it can't be relied on to work properly.
BTW - I'm using real Firefox to post this.
Even when Timberwolf is finished it won't offer significant improvements over OWB.
Neither will have good Flash support.
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Timberwolf allows AmigaOS 4 to use plug-ins and also HTML5 support for sites like YouTube.
Plus competition is a good thing even in a small market - it helps make OWB and Timberwolf the better browsers.
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It's a great day for OS4 users. I applaud Timberwolf's dev team for their hardwork
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Are they ever going to release the source code per the gpl of firefox or do they still planning on trying to illegally keep their port closed source and try and charge people money for a firefox port which violates the gpl?
Firefox code is MPL. There is nothing wrong with that, and it isn't illegal. Donations are not forced, the program will come out one way or the other.
I'd really recommend to inform yourself first before accusing people of illegal behavior. I'm ready to take your apology.
~~ Rogue
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Timberwolf allows AmigaOS 4 to use plug-ins and also HTML5 support for sites like YouTube.
Plus competition is a good thing even in a small market - it helps make OWB and Timberwolf the better browsers.
OWB already has html5 support.
And will Timberwolf allow you to use Firefox plug-ins?
And in our market competition tends to eliminate other products.
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And for myself, I will donate when I eventually have any money again (I donated to OWB, I see it as only fair).
@Rogue
Many of us appreciate the work you've put in on TW and AmigaOS generally, so thank you! I'm amazed you even come to this site any more given how many anti-OS4 people there are here, I don't think I would.
@Iggy
OWB only has HTML5 on MOS. Timberwolf does allow Firefox plugins, I believe, yes.
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You do understand that *everything* is being developed in *everyone's* spare time, don't you?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but I was under the impression that the Friedens are getting paid for their work on OS4, but not for Timberwolf. Are you saying that they're working on OS4 for free?
Any time I'm being paid for I don't consider to be spare, or even mine. I've sold it to someone else and so do work for them during that time instead.
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And will Timberwolf allow you to use Firefox plug-ins?
Add-Ons. Plugins are compiled for the platform they run on and need to be ported.
And in our market competition tends to eliminate other products.
So that means that we should all quit at Workbench 1.0 and not develop it any further because it might eliminate other products? I don't get THAT logic.
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And for myself, I will donate when I eventually have any money again (I donated to OWB, I see it as only fair).
@Rogue
Many of us appreciate the work you've put in on TW and AmigaOS generally, so thank you! I'm amazed you even come to this site any more given how many anti-OS4 people there are here, I don't think I would.
@Iggy
OWB only has HTML5 on MOS. Timberwolf does allow Firefox plugins, I believe, yes.
I thought the latest version was based on the MOS version.
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C'mon guys, lets just grow up a little bit? At least someone is taking the time to develop something.
@Haywire
What has you in an uproar? As previously stated nobody's doing anything illegal. Are you upset they havent ported it to AROS, MOS etc? From a personal stance I think it is higher priority to getting the issues worked out before going off on a tangent and porting an unfinished application to other platforms. But, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to give you the source, and, if you're so inclined, you may attempt to port it to AROS or MorphOS. Just send the team an e-mail, and if they refuse, just post the response here in a new thread and we'll come to your aid and politely ask ourselves, I don't see the point in getting riled up over details
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Speaking about bugs: If you use Timberwolf and come across some bugs, please make sure to check
http://bugs.os4depot.net/index.php?function=viewsoftware&softwareid=19
Check whether the problem has been reported already, and if not, add a report there with steps to reproduce the error. That will help immensely.
Thanks.
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thanks rogue, but I dont use OS4, if you were talking to me. If I hit the lottery anytime soon, then I'll buy an a1x1k, but until then, I'm with my current machines
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I thought the latest version was based on the MOS version.
What spirantho meant was HTML5 video support, via the WebM codec. MOS' OWB and Timberwolf support WebM, the OS4's port of MOS' OWB (MUI OWB) does not.
@Rogue
Thanks for this new release, most welcomed.
Varthall
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I was under the impression that the Friedens are getting paid for their work on OS4
Then I think you may have been greatly overestimating the accumulated sales of OS4, Gorky 17, Shogo, SiN, Quake2 etc during the last decade... ;)
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What spirantho meant was HTML5 video support, via the WebM codec. MOS' OWB and Timberwolf support WebM, the OS4's port of MOS' OWB (MUI OWB) does not.
Just for the completeness:
Odyssey Web Browser supports HTML5 video and audio, and not only WebM (which is still not very widely used except on YouTube) but also H264, Ogg/Theora and FLV (and several audio codecs as well such as mpeg, aac and so on). FireFox given its choices will never support H264, which means it won't be able to view a good amount of HTML5 video websites such as DailyMotion or Vimeo and many others.
It currently scores 345 + 15 bonus points at html5test.com, by the way.
It also supports NPAPI plugins, but it wasn't adapted (yet?) on the OS4/AROS ports. Through this plugin system, Flash is supported with swfdec plugin (gnash would also be a possibility, but it's not better, anyway).
Finally, add-ons such as the ones you can find on userscripts.org are also supported by OWB (some needs some tweaking). These ones need the GreaseMonkey addon to work on Firefox.
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Indeed Odyssey gets nice full score for HTML5 video and audio tags:
(http://sintonen.fi/pics/odyssey-html5test2.png)
Firefox 11.0 gets only 21 (+4 bonus points) for video and 20 (+3 bonus points) for audio.
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Thank you both fab & piru,
So we need foreign software, why?
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@Fab and Piru
Thank you very much for your in deep insights into Odyssey.
And now back on topic: Nice to see some more frequent beta releases, looking forward to the next one...
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Just for the completeness:
Odyssey Web Browser
It currently scores 345 + 15 bonus points at html5test.com, by the way.
Intresting just tested that site on OS4
Timberwolf 4 Beta 2 scored 281 plus 9 bonus point
OWB-MUI scored 191
Anyway, I'm more than pleased with the update, the previous problems I had with it running Google Doc all seem to be fixed, wich is really neat. Keep up the good works guys.
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I hate to mention this, and I know I will probably get flamed for it, but am I the only OS4.1.5 user that has any concern that the amount of time coding Timberwolf is taking coding time away from finishing drivers for the SAM460ex and AmigaOne X1000, plus other parts of OS4.1.x?
Don't forget, part of the reason for porting Firefox was to find any deficiencies in OS4 that would prevent porting such a complex program over to it. In their porting efforts, they find areas where the OS needs to be improved or new functionality that need to be added and then they proceed to address those issues. There was a reason why the Timberwolf Beta REQUIRED Update 4. So don't fret; I'm sure the time they spend coding Timberwolf does directly benefit Os4.1.x.
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You do understand that *everything* is being developed in *everyone's* spare time, don't you?
it pains me to say this but you actually have a point;)
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@ Piru
I get:
- 281 with 9 bonus points with TimberWolf Beta2
- 191 with 0 bonus points with mui-owb
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@ Piru
I get:
- 281 with 9 bonus points with TimberWolf Beta2
- 191 with 0 bonus points with mui-owb
But this is with OWB 1.9 that uses an almost two years old webkit, and with disabled HTML5 features (including HTML5 media but also other things).
The snapshot was about current Odyssey Web Browser on MorphOS.
End of OT. :)
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I'll apologize ahead of time for quoting a private e-mail AmigaDave and I exchanged earlier without checking with him first.
"I am afraid that the Frieden's are spending too much time working on
Timberwolf, instead of working on drivers for the SAM460ex, or X1000.
I am sure that Timberwolf is important to them, as it might spur more
hardware purchases, but many people are saying that Timberwolf is
unusable on any SAM systems and it may never be usable on a SAM."
Now that's the opinion of an OS4 user and advocate who has spent a fair amount of money on an X1000.
Again, sorry David.
But honestly guys, don't the Frieden's have enough work to do without this project?
Where are all the drivers for the on board hardware included in those two systems David mentioned?
This is not a flame.
I've considered an OS4 hardware purchase recently, but the priorities of the developers of my current OS seem much more sensible.
You don't release it till its ready.
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But this is with OWB 1.9 that uses an almost two years old webkit, and with disabled HTML5 features (including HTML5 media but also other things).
The snapshot was about current Odyssey Web Browser on MorphOS.
End of OT. :)
thanks for the explanation Fab so hopefully we get an updated WebKit for mui-owb soon
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for comparison purposes, Chromium gets 369 (+13)
Rekonq gets 310 (+14)
Old Konqueror gets a measly 93 (+6)
...and Ibrowse 2.4 wouldn't even load the page :)
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"I am afraid that the Frieden's are spending too much time working on
Timberwolf, instead of working on drivers for the SAM460ex, or X1000.
I am sure that Timberwolf is important to them
Of course, there is a €6.000+ bounty ear-marked for them personally to cash in, for some relatively easy work (in the approach they have chosen).
but many people are saying that Timberwolf is
unusable on any SAM systems and it may never be usable on a SAM."
Firefox *is bloated*, there is a considerable and very much noticeable speed difference between Firefox and Chrome even on my core i7 (not saying it's unusable on a modern PC, far from it, just that there is a noticeable difference), and Sam is *very* weak HW, especially the 440 that even lacks a L2 cache...
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I dont want to start any flames, but Id be curious to see how AROS Odysee scores in that test. Id hazzard a guess it'd be somewhere between MOS version and OS4 OWB-MUI?
Again, not trying to instigate any sort of flame wars, personally Ive gone back to just my a1200 and amithlon, so it's inconsequential to me, but I am curious.
As for the topic, Im not a Firefox fan, nor am I an OS4 user, but congrats anyway. No harm in having a few options :)
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I dont want to start any flames, but Id be curious to see how AROS Odysee scores in that test. Id hazzard a guess it'd be somewhere between MOS version and OS4 OWB-MUI?
I don't know whether some stuff aren't ported/supported on AROS, but at least Odyssey on AROS is of version 1.16, which should mean WebKit r103170 (December 2011)...
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@Iggy
One of the major weaknesses in AmigaOS 4 is that we didn't have an HTML5 capable browser (Yes, we know MOS has one, but we didn't). While Fab's Odyssey is an excellent program, and much kudos to him for doing such a good job, he only works on MOS. The AmigaOS version has fallen too far behind and it doesn't seem to be being updated.
By porting TW, as has been mentioned earlier, the Friedens are able to fix a hole in the OS4 software library (an HTML5 browser) while also finding missing elements in the AOS API, which they can correct to make porting easier.
So I think they did a really good thing with TW - they're working on getting HTML5 to OS4, and it's building the OS4 API at the same time.
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I'll apologize ahead of time for quoting a private e-mail AmigaDave and I exchanged earlier without checking with him first.
"I am afraid that the Frieden's are spending too much time working on
Timberwolf, instead of working on drivers for the SAM460ex, or X1000.
I am sure that Timberwolf is important to them, as it might spur more
hardware purchases, but many people are saying that Timberwolf is
unusable on any SAM systems and it may never be usable on a SAM."
Now that's the opinion of an OS4 user and advocate who has spent a fair amount of money on an X1000.
Again, sorry David.
But honestly guys, don't the Frieden's have enough work to do without this project?
Where are all the drivers for the on board hardware included in those two systems David mentioned?
This is not a flame.
I've considered an OS4 hardware purchase recently, but the priorities of the developers of my current OS seem much more sensible.
You don't release it till its ready.
I don't know how anybody got this impression, but it is complete and utter bollocks. Actually, for the record, I haven't even touched Timberwolf in, I think, four months or so. All of the recent work was done by my brother.
I find it hilarious, to say the least, that someone claims to know how much time I spent on what project, when he is obviously quite clueless about it.
For the record, I don't even work on drivers. I don't have a SAM 460. I think my brother has one, but I don't. I have an X-1000, but I am currently working exclusively on next gen graphics, and I have been doing this for the last several months.
So, please, for ****** sake, stop spreading idiotic lies and bollocks like this. This so-called community continues to make me sick.
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thanks rogue, but I dont use OS4, if you were talking to me. If I hit the lottery anytime soon, then I'll buy an a1x1k, but until then, I'm with my current machines
No, it was just a general message, since I didn't know whether it was part of the announcement or not. The bug tracker helps us keep track of what is left to be done.
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Then I think you may have been greatly overestimating the accumulated sales of OS4, Gorky 17, Shogo, SiN, Quake2 etc during the last decade... ;)
See, what the hell? Why do you think that you are in a position to say this? For the record, I *AM* being paid by Hyperion. I work for Hyperion full-time.
Seriously, what the **** is wrong with you guys? Is your hatred and envy so far that you cannot skip even the slightest chance to slander your competition? What a sorry bunch you are.
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Seriously, what the **** is wrong with you guys? Is your hatred and envy so far that you cannot skip even the slightest chance to slander your competition? What a sorry bunch you are.
This is Amiga.org, i.e. the site where the MOS people are hanging to slam AmigaOS 4 in every possible way they can think of. Every time when AmigaOS 4 is mentioned for whatever reason, MOS will be brought even if it is totally off-topic. As see you wasn't been here for a long time, so you didn't notice the change.
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Looks like rouge needs another hobby. Anything less than praise sung from the roof tops will causes this man to blow his gasket.
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Wouldn't you when people talk out of their backsides?
I would. There is a limit to how much **** someone can take... ;)
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I think we're not listening to what rogue is saying. He is saying that he works with graphics, not drivers. How is his work affecting any of his colleagues who may or may not be working on drivers? Things take time to form, and the OS4 philosophy is more about get it out there and work it out on the go rather than keep it in development until its pristine and polished. It's a matter of choice,and I for one am not always a big fan of it, but it's no use voicing concerns to rogue when he does not even work on drivers. Every developer has his strengths, and rogues are graphics, I'm assuming from his post
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Firefox *is bloated* ... and Sam is *very* weak HW, especially the 440 that even lacks a L2 cache...
I think you have a fair point here. I would be really surprised if TW ever gains the ability to play internet streams such as youtube on anything but X1000.
It appears there's some unrealistic expectations regarding how much any kind of "hw acceleration" will be able to improve the browser performance.
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Looks like rouge needs another hobby. Anything less than praise sung from the roof tops will causes this man to blow his gasket.
Yeah... :rolleyes:
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Seriously, what the **** is wrong with you guys? Is your hatred and envy so far that you cannot skip even the slightest chance to slander your competition? What a sorry bunch you are.
i've often wondered the same thing. there is an obsession about anything OS4-related among a few people around here. i honestly think they have mental issues. please don't confuse this sorry place filled with pathetic obsessives with the broader community of amigans.
i mean, this thread was about timberwolf, a piece of software which runs only on OS4. and it didn't take long before the usual suspects came in, with snarky comments, doing anything to justify their desperate belief in their own superiority. if they think this helps convince people to use the product they promote, they are sorely mistaken.
i would suggest continuing to drive the platform forward and ignoring these jack-asses entirely.
-- eliyahu
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i've often wondered the same thing. there is an obsession about anything OS4-related among a few people around here. i honestly think they have mental issues. please don't confuse this sorry place filled with pathetic obsessives with the broader community of amigans.
i mean, this thread was about timberwolf, a piece of software which runs only on OS4. and it didn't take long before the usual suspects came in, with snarky comments, doing anything to justify their desperate belief in their own superiority. if they think this helps convince people to use the product they promote, they are sorely mistaken.
i would suggest continuing to drive the platform forward and ignoring these jack-asses entirely.
Now that was not very nice of you.
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See, what the hell? Why do you think that you are in a position to say this? For the record, I *AM* being paid by Hyperion. I work for Hyperion full-time.
Seriously, what the **** is wrong with you guys? Is your hatred and envy so far that you cannot skip even the slightest chance to slander your competition? What a sorry bunch you are.
I doubt tmhgm is in competition against you since he is not selling anything. And I dont see how it could be seen as slandering to say someone is working for free. Quite opposite I would say.
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I don't know how anybody got this impression, but it is complete and utter bollocks. Actually, for the record, I haven't even touched Timberwolf in, I think, four months or so. All of the recent work was done by my brother.
I find it hilarious, to say the least, that someone claims to know how much time I spent on what project, when he is obviously quite clueless about it.
For the record, I don't even work on drivers. I don't have a SAM 460. I think my brother has one, but I don't. I have an X-1000, but I am currently working exclusively on next gen graphics, and I have been doing this for the last several months.
So, please, for f*ck's sake, stop spreading idiotic lies and bollocks like this. This so-called community continues to make me sick.
Lovely sentiment.
Now I know I definitely do NOT want to purchase OS4 hardware.
You guys are depending on this egotistical a-hole to develop your OS?
Good luck with that.
"This so-called community continues to make me sick."
Wow!
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Now I know I definitely do NOT want to purchase OS4 hardware.
You guys are depending on this egotistical a-hole to develop your OS?
Good luck with that.!
that's exactly how i feel about at least two of your OS developers. i really wish you guys could just stay out of OS4 threads here. even if you don't mean to -- and i think some of you do -- it just turns into a slap-fest.
-- eliyahu
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This is Amiga.org, i.e. the site where the MOS people are hanging to slam AmigaOS 4 in every possible way they can think of. Every time when AmigaOS 4 is mentioned for whatever reason, MOS will be brought even if it is totally off-topic. As see you wasn't been here for a long time, so you didn't notice the change.
That is completely unfair.
I'd love to see OS4 succeed.
As the former manager of a business that built 68K based systems in the mid '80s to early '90s (Delmar Co.) I know what a struggle it can be to market low volume computers systems and software.
But, so far, I'm not impressed with the team developing this software.
For comparison, when my former employer Ed Gressick wrote his first video driver he had a functional version created in one day.
Porting a GUI from Gespac? One week.
And I can assure you that no hot headed divisive comments about our customer base was made during that period.
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that's exactly how i feel about at least two of your OS developers. i really wish you guys could just stay out of OS4 threads here. even if you don't mean to -- and i think some of you do -- it just turns into a slap-fest.
-- eliyahu
I never intended to offend anyone.
If that's your take on the situation, so be it.
From what I've seen, you guys want to act like OS4 is your personal club house.
Why don't you grow up and learn to take criticism constructively?
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I never intended to offend anyone.
If that's your take on the situation, so be it.
From what I've seen, you guys want to act like OS4 is your personal club house.
Why don't you grow up and learn to take criticism constructively?
i think you misunderstood. i'm not offended at all, just frustrated. and constructive criticism is perfectly fine, welcome even. it's just the deliberately snarky comments that drive me bonkers. there's really only two people in the MOS community that do it consistently on this site, and you're certainly not one of them.
oh, and by the way, we don't want a personal club house. when i first joined the amiga community back in early 2010, i couldn't understand the -- in some cases, rather severe -- sensitivity of some OS4 users to anything that sounded like criticism. i understand why they react that way now: it's because anything that happens that is positive it set upon and demolished as much as possible by 'the usual suspects.'
i would argue that we just want people to be civil and not make things up or deliberately troll OS4 threads again and again and again. i imagine you wouldn't like it if you knew, in advance, that any MOS thread that appears here would quickly be set upon by the OS4 equivalent of a certain MOS zealot present in this thread. i mean, i would be nice if there could be OS4 threads here that didn't turn into slap-fests every single time, you know? that's not too much to ask, is it?
-- eliyahu
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Without wanting to get involved in any arguments, it should be worth pointing out that:
TMHG said that OS4 was all done in his spare time. It's not. It's a proper commercial product, and Hyperion deserve credit for that.
It was also claimed that Hyperion were acting illegally, yet this is patently untrue, and is actually libel. Rogue could actually sue for that, and would probably win.
This thread is about OS4's Timberwolf. It was quickly derailed into a "my OS is better than your OS" with people going out of their way to talk about how great Fab's browser is. Yes, it is an excellent piece of work, and MOS is a very good OS, but this thread is about Timberwolf on a completely different OS, and talk about MOS browsers doesn't belong here.
I think Rogue was absolutely right in getting annoyed, I would do too.
Now can we all please get along? We're all in (roughly) the same boat together, can't we work with each other rather than against?
I mean... come on*.
* This worked in South Park. I want to see if it works on Amiga forums too.
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I was going to do this late yesterday afternoon, but only had access through the painfuly crappy browser on my phone.
This has gotten off-topic and snarky to the point of just insulting others. It's beta, it has issues, it's in development. Deal.
and Closed.