Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: XDelusion on January 14, 2004, 08:38:14 AM
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My friend offered to sell me his old 233 Mhz iMac with 32Mb of RAM for cheap, and I thought I had talked myself out of buying it until my dual AMD PC died on my today.
No I am stuck using this piece of crap and am also stuck with OS 8.1 which, as fate would have it has NO support what so ever!
My first problem is the CD-ROM, it does not like Burned CD's at ALL, can I just pop that piece of crap out an put in a 52X IDE burner in in its place or is it a Sony Paystation story where you have to fork out A LOT of money to buy a company brand burner from Apple?
My second problem is how in the heck do I install Mandrake Linux on this, it will not boot off the CD, infact when I look at the contents of the CD's it looks kinda like you got to install that crap by hand, if that is the case, then forget it, I'm not a Linux nerd, I was ease of use (is that so hard to ask?).
My third and most troubling question is how do I update from OS 8.1 to 8.6? I thought updates were supposed to be free till OS 9, but it seems like I got to fork out $50 bucks or more for an obsolete OS, WTF!?!?
Forth question, if I really do have to fork out cash for a crappy Mac OS then forget it, what "good" browsers, FTP, Overnet, and IRC programs work with 8.1, and are there any good pages with FREE stuff to download. I'm poor, and I miss the free world of the PC and Amiga. :/
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Oh yes, I also could use Samba and Wheel Mouse drivers for my Logitech Optical mouse ( all 3 buttons act the same right now) if anyone can help with that too.
Sorry if I sound like a Mac virgin, but I pretty much am.
As for browsers, I sadly have to admit that IE 5 works real good on here, and so far no pop ups?!!? Amazing!
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Ok, I have "aquired" that bloated POS that we call Mac OS 8.5, so I am a step ahead of this horrible game.
My new question is this:
How do I assign certain programs to certain file types. I.E. When I download a MP3 file in iCab, it ends up with an iCab icon, and when I double click on it, it opens iCab and makes a copy of the file.
I downloaded a Mp3 player, but it will not let me load the Mp3 files, except that random few that will download and not get a iCab icon.
Mac is on Crack!
Now for a short rant. Ok so PPC is better than pIntel, but Winblows blows Mac OS away! I had a PC with the same CPU speed and Ram as this Mac and Winblows 98 ran faster, and did not run out of RAM every five seconds while merely browsing the web. On top of that Winblows did not lock up and randomly begin to close programs because I ran out of RAM (where did it all go!!!). Another thing, with a PC I can hit the reset switch if I did crash, on the Mac, you got to unplug the thing.
I'll never understand Mac users, let alone PC users, but now at least the PC makes more sence.
Amiga still rules! Too bad we can't have MorphOS or AROS on this iMac, then the hardware would actually shine!!!
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Amiga still rules! Too bad we can't have MorphOS or AROS on this iMac, then the hardware would actually shine!!!
This is a task for Matt! :-) (I was quicker than you Matt :-D ).
If there was such a thing usable, I'd consider buying a second-hand Mac.
________
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oy oy theres nothing wrong with Macs providing u got OS X and upwards. I'm not sure if it will run well but add RAM and it shud be capable.
OS X is the finest OS I have used EVER.
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Firstly, you would be well advised to get OS X and more RAM.
All the crashing is the result of not having enough RAM, but in
OS 8 -9.x, RAM is not allocated dynamically as it is in Windoz.
If you want to stop the browser from crashing, you have to
allocate more RAM to the browser. It sounds very primitive,
but all of this is fixed in OS X (but you still need lots of RAM -
it's not an Amiga:)
Secondly, a G3 is probably only a little faster than a P3 at the
same MHz, so the iMac is not a speed demon by any measure.
Check out places like macsales.com for better prices on Mac
OS upgrade CDs (9.1 or 10.1 $40, etc).
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Classic MacOS sure suck alot... I guess it would be impossible to install MacOSX on this thing?? You for sure need more ram though... MacOSX is a much better OS than MacOS classic... I even think that classic macos is worse whan win9x..
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You could run Yellow Dog (http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/) Linux. If you don't want to down load it you can usually find it on ebay.
here's one.
ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3071834235&category=11231)
But no matter what OS you decide to run, add more ram :-D
Specs (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=43102)
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Tomas wrote:
Classic MacOS sure suck alot... I guess it would be impossible to install MacOSX on this thing?? You for sure need more ram though... MacOSX is a much better OS than MacOS classic... I even think that classic macos is worse whan win9x..
Wrong. . . . More ram is needed to run OS X, not to mention a copy of OS X which will cost more than what our newbe will want to spend. :-)
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I thought this is amiga.org and not mac.org
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Wishmaster:
Take a look in which forum it's posted okay?
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Somebody PMed me a while back offering to sell me some upgrades for this system at a fair price, but I deleted his PM's when I thought I was no longer going to buy this Mac. I regeret that now! :/
Anyhow if I wanted to run OSX on here I'd have to fork out a LOT of money, and would have to have that 600 some Mhz G4 upgrade with the fire wire and all. Even more RAM is not cheap because you can not use standard RAM, you have to buy iMac specific RAM, and I am poor. Someday....
And even though OSX fixes a lot of my problems it is SLOOOOOOOWWWWWW and bulky just like our pal Linux when you want to run a decent GUI on top of it. But I guess I got to make that move some day if I wanna stop crashing.
So can someone help me with my problems without suggesting I upgrade, cause I can't right now. :/
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Ermm.... Windows NT existed for PPC at one point, it might be very primitive, but maybe it'll suck up less RAM et cetera, with the way windows manages RAM.... well the NT 4.0 we have in our office claims to run on PPC computers...
PS: I can't believe I'm suggesting this, I must be sick...
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Hi Mac,
Go to google and download Mac OS9 forever.
Then follow the instructions to upgrade to os9.2.
You can get all the OS files you need from Mac Support download.
I have and old Supermac 900/G3/500 that I upgraded to 9.2.2. I like it much better than OSx which I have on a new laptop.
You can buy memory cheap. Just google memory and try a few of the URLs.
Try it. You'll like it!
Jon Byk
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Do not try and put OSX on a 233/g3. It will be dog slow!!!. on top of that it probably has a really old and slow graphics chipset. If you want that machine to be decent then take the advice of the good people here and get it up to OS 9.2.
PS: the tray loading imacs have problems with burned CD's
PSS: classic MacOS, co-operative multitasking in the year 1999 :-o . The Amiga had pre-emptive in 1985 :-D
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A cheap 64mb (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781048453&category=11151) ram upgrade = a little help. :-)
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NT for PPC, ya good suggestion. Only...
...no software.
Your not going insane, it's just that there is no AROS or MorphOS for this hardware, that's all. What are we to do, sell out?!?! :/
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nothing wrong with Macs providing u got OS X and upwards
What he's trying to say is "the first 9 or more releases were crap" :-)
Just think, MS has so much leeway now, they're only up to 5.1....
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Hello XDelusion,
I might buy that iMac off you if your interested, i love Macs, and always wanted to own an iMac! :-)
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Tomas wrote:
Classic MacOS sure suck alot... I guess it would be impossible to install MacOSX on this thing??
OS X will install 'with ease,' assuming enough disk space and RAM. It will, as noted, be dog slow even with same. You don't need Firewire to run it. (10.3 requires "a Mac built with USB" as a way of distinguishing "New World" from "Old World" hardware. iMacs are "New World." One thing to do before you potentially obliterate MacOS is install the iMac Firmware Update from Apple.com (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60384#English).)
I can't speak for 10 on a weak machine (worst I've met is a G3 600 iBook with 10.1 - so pre_QuartzGL - and that felt reasonable enough), but I did just boot Gentoo on the Beige G3/300 here, which is similar enough but for the 384MB RAM. Memory-unconstrained, KDE and Gnome were both usable but somewhat pokey, so take this as a warning with 66MHz less horsepower. Moving down to something 'minimalist' (WindowMaker) would make things fine, but you've already mentioned the newbie aspect... Maybe XFCE would be a good compromise, if you can get to the point of getting Yellow Dog installed. (In theory, Linux + XFree86 should outperform OS X + Display PDF.. unless you end up using antialiased fonts or anything else touching the XRender extension. Yay. ;-))
These things should take standard PC100 (and probably PC133) SODIMMs ("laptop RAM," a-la the AmigaOne ITX), but I don't know how well they cope with anything larger than 256MB.
IDE stuff plugs on with laptop IDE headers, same as the A1200. Theoretically, any other slimline laptop drive can be crammed in that hole? ... but if you crack the system, don't touch the back of the CRT!
As to installing Yellow Dog... as far as I know, it's supposed to be shiny_happy_easy, but the CD-R issue may be giving you guff? Terrasoft Solutions (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com) seems to be unreachable right now (go figure), but they do offer support, and should theoretically be happy to try to convert you into a paying customer by making your install go smooth.
Have you tried rebooting with the install CD in the drive and holding down C (or Command-C, perhaps it is?) before it chimes? Secret Mac boot-me-from-CD-ROM keycode.
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You use Internet Explorer Preferences (Explorer menu, then Preferences), click on 'File Helpers' and there you can re-associate the file to your favourite player etc.
For more trouble shooting, see
http://www.graphixmad.plus.com/
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I had fun with MacOSX at my digital art class today (my dad asked if it used gnome or it's own manager hehe) stupid bloody thing dockbar popping up and photoshop dissapearing if you clicked outside fo windows >:| .... anyhow
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No I am stuck using this piece of crap and am also stuck with OS 8.1 which, as fate would have it has NO support what so ever!
People bitch at Microsoft for not supporting their products, but Apple takes the cake for planned obsolescence. I was told by an Apple salesman that you CAN get OS9 from Apple without OSX, but not according to the Apple website.
My first problem is the CD-ROM, it does not like Burned CD's at ALL, can I just pop that piece of crap out an put in a 52X IDE burner in in its place or is it a Sony Paystation story where you have to fork out A LOT of money to buy a company brand burner from Apple?
CD-R discs come in many subtle versions and are not going to work on all drives. This is true of all computers that have proprietary drives built into the case. You'll have to have those discs re-burned on an Apple approved burner. The older iMacs use el-cheao CD drives.
My second problem is how in the heck do I install Mandrake Linux on this, it will not boot off the CD, infact when I look at the contents of the CD's it looks kinda like you got to install that crap by hand, if that is the case, then forget it, I'm not a Linux nerd, I was ease of use (is that so hard to ask?).
I think the binary versions of Mandrake are for x86 only. You'll have to compile it all yourself to run it on PPC, and that's a real hassle. Also, the Mandrake package installer in 9.2 appears to be completely broken, because every time I use it, my "Start" menu gets culled, and it runs into tons of dependency issues and almost never installs things correctly.
I'm really getting pissed off with Mandrake, anyway. It's probably the slowest OS I've ever used (and KDE doesn't help). Try looking for a PPC-only version of Linux, otherwise you're in for a wild ride.
oy oy theres nothing wrong with Macs providing u got OS X and upwards. I'm not sure if it will run well but add RAM and it shud be capable.
OS X is the finest OS I have used EVER.
On a 233 Mhz iMac? Forget it. I saw OSX running on a dual processor G5 and I thought it was damn slow even on their flagship machine. Of course, that was a demo system, so chances are all the eye candy was turned on.
Besides, who wants to pay $100+ for OSX to run on a computer several years old? Apple has discontinued all support for OS 8.5 and older. OS9 is your best bet.
Firstly, you would be well advised to get OS X and more RAM. All the crashing is the result of not having enough RAM, but in OS 8 -9.x, RAM is not allocated dynamically as it is in Windoz.
Actually, OS8-9 uses dynamic memory allocation for the OS itself, but not for the apps. If your apps don't use a ton of memory, OS8-9 should be fine. Hey, at least you can manage your memory. Other OS's suck up everything in sight.
OS 8.1 has about 200 system extensions, though, so tracing crashing problems can be a real pain. I used to be a Mac sysadmin, so I can tell you that the story that Macs don't crash is complete crap, even if they are dedicated Photoshop machines, like I used.
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OWC (macsales.com) will sell you an OS 9.1 CD
AND 256 MB of RAM for less than $100 (excluding
shipping, perhaps). Save your pennies for a few
weeks/months and upgrade it a little. I wouldn't
bother putting a G4 CPU upgrade in this thing,
however - not really worth it (for roughly the same
money you could probably find a B&W G3 tower -
with more expadability - on eBay).
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osx is crap, bulky and will run like a vic-20 speed wise on a 233 imac. Best bet use os 9.x, run ie5 for browser (faster on mac than ns is), get more ram, and dont think about changing the processor card cause its a bitch to do and you'll be better of buying a newer mac, or pc or miggy:). Far as mp3 goes, download itunes and use it for your mp3 playback.Dont call apple for os9 support, you prob wont get it, osx has only one good version and that the jaguar, but like i said it'll be so slow on a 233 that you better buy a la-z boy recliner for your computer desk :). To change the cd-rom depends on wether its a slot loaded one or the tray loading. Slot loading on the older imacs are kinda a pain in the butt to change, and are a bit more expensive. I'd goto ebay get os 9 and upgrade to the latest 9x there is (9.2 i think), bump up the ram, change the cdrom if it wont frustrate you too much and be done with it. Then id go out and buy a new computer lol.
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Why would anyone pay for Mac OS software when it is available FREE FREE FREE! Everything is there in Apple support softtware download site through OS 9.2.2. OS 9.2.2 is the result of years of trying, it's quick, intutituve, and has drivers for everything you'll need. Google "OS 9 forever." It will download all the files you'll need to upgrade and practially do the work for you. Stop complaining and try it!
Jon Byk :-D
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Any OS has its strengths and weaknesses. IMHO, Amiga OS is for people (like me) who love the OS for its own sake. Many applications are showing their age, and the selection smaller but there are many ways to cope.
Other than being the same as 95% of computer users, it's hard for me to guess the attraction to Windows. Windows simply has more than critical mass, and is a magnet for viruses, spyware, and corporate control of the individual user. (I hate this!)
Classic Mac OS seems geared to creating documents, which it does very well. It's also more compatible with mainstream apps but seems to have fewer viruses and less corporate intrusion than Windows.
I'll stop pontificating now.
I ran OSX on a 300MHz G3, I found it to be annoyingly slow and combersome. OS9.2, however is sorta responsive, and when networked to my A3000, fills the several holes in my Amiga's abilities. If you go with OS9, find a copy of "Mac OS 9, the Missing Manual" by David Pogue. It explained most of the annoying questions I had as a newbie. Also there is a website that someone here gave me (can't find the link now) that lists all of the key combos to reset, clear pram, etc. These key combos should be in every manual, but Apple seems reluctant to pass them out. Let me know if you need them.
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@Jeffimix
stupid bloody thing dockbar popping up and photoshop dissapearing if you clicked outside fo windows
Most people find that useful for switching applications, click on the palette in photoshop, your back in photoshop. Can't find a file for the life of you? Then click on the background to get back into finder and track that sucker down!
I'm fed up with all this OS 9 bashing too, I used it for 3 years before OS X came out and had very few problems. I have some helper programs like conflict catcher which helped to route out any extension conflicts which where the main cause of problems in with the OS, but that's just the way it evolved. People started making programmes which required these extensions for extra functionality. Keep these in check using your extensions control panel and things should be peachy.