Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Kesa on March 13, 2012, 03:40:14 AM

Title: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Kesa on March 13, 2012, 03:40:14 AM
In response from certain users whom i will not mention here (bigmac, Duce and LoadWB) complaining about the non Amiga content on Amiga.org i have started this thread that will contain Amiga content only and all social talk is forbidden.

So er, how's everyones harddrive doing?

:p
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Matt_H on March 13, 2012, 03:46:35 AM
I'll run with this.

Quote from: Kesa;683506
So er, how's everyones harddrive doing?

:p


Kinda slow, actually. Anyone got any tips for a Compact Flash drive in a 2000 on a 2091 controller? Could bad termination be slowing things down? We're talking transfer rates in the 90K/s range.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: LoadWB on March 13, 2012, 03:47:23 AM
Nice trolling.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: LoadWB on March 13, 2012, 03:48:17 AM
Quote from: Matt_H;683507
I'll run with this.



Kinda slow, actually. Anyone got any tips for a Compact Flash drive in a 2000 on a 2091 controller? Could bad termination be slowing things down? We're talking transfer rates in the 90K/s range.


You using an accelerator?  2091 only has SCSI, right?  What's your converter?
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Matt_H on March 13, 2012, 03:50:48 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;683509
You using an accelerator?  2091 only has SCSI, right?  What's your converter?


Yup, got a A2630 with heaps of RAM. 2091 is SCSI only (also with full complement of RAM), and driving a native SCSI card reader.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Kesa on March 13, 2012, 03:52:35 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;683508
Nice trolling.

Now c'mon, did i actually mention your name? Brackets don't count  :quickdraw:
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: LoadWB on March 13, 2012, 03:53:38 AM
Quote from: Matt_H;683510
Yup, got a A2630 with heaps of RAM. 2091 is SCSI only (also with full complement of RAM), and driving a native SCSI card reader.

90k/s sounds a little slow to me.  I haven't done any SCSI->IDE(CF) work, so I can't speak on the performance of the converters.  I do know from experience that different cards perform better, even within the same speed class.  Have you used something like SCSI Bench to test raw throughput and CPU load?
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 13, 2012, 06:19:21 AM
Wondering this myself.  I wanna go a Mechy Adapter route, but I'm still running stock 68000 in my 2000 with a 2091 with rev4 WD chip and 6.6 roms.  I dunno if my Rev4 chip and barebones is up to the task.

BUT I gotta think anything is better than my 40MB SCSI drive from 1990...
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: orcish75 on March 13, 2012, 11:05:20 AM
90KB/sec is very slow. I've got a GVP HC+8 card with a Guru ROM, connected to Mechy's native SCSI CF card reader on my A2000. I'm using a Transcend 16GB 133x CF card. I'm getting ~1.5MB/sec transfer rates on it regardless if I'm in 68000 or 68030 mode.

I had to disable synchronous transfers on the CF reader otherwise it would randomly lock up when copying large amounts of data. Disabling synchronous transfers didn't seem to have an impact on performance though.

The GVP card does SCSI DMA directly into it's onboard ram, I'm not sure if the A2091 does the same.

If you can, get a Guru rom for your A2091, it made a huge difference to my GVP HC+8 in terms of stability and performance. Unfortunately the adapters that the Guru rom plugs into are difficult to come by. The rom image itself is available on Ralph Babel's hompage http://babel.de/amiga.html but it won't work without the adapter.

Sorry I can't help you more..
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Cass on March 13, 2012, 11:44:31 AM
I`m about to buy the IDE2CF adapters (CF card included) from AmigaKit, one for a barebones A1200 and one for my A4000 (CSPPC/060@50). How do they perform respect to a standard IDE HD?
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: orcish75 on March 13, 2012, 12:07:32 PM
On my A1200 the CF is very quick. You are limited to the ~2MB/sec of the IDE port on the A1200 motherboard. What makes it quick is there is no seek time to speak of on a CF card, so it boots up in no time. My workbench is ready before my monitor has warmed up enough to display the image if I do a cold start.

Once in Workbench, it definitely "feels" a lot faster when accessing files and folders, however if you are going to copy a lot of files or large files, it will still take a while due to the 2MB/sec limit of the IDE port.

Just a warning if you do get an accelerator for your A1200, some CF cards don't initialise in time when you cold boot the A1200. It'll give you the insert floppy screen. Usually a Ctrl + A + A will allow it to boot, but it is irritating when it doesn't want to boot first time.

My Transcend 4GB and 8GB 133x cards boot fine on an accelerated A1200 but my Trancend 16GB 133x card won't cold boot, I have to Ctrl + A + A to get it to boot.

Unfortunately I don't have an A4000, so I don't know if it'll show the same symptoms of the A1200, especially as you have such a fast accelerator for it.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 13, 2012, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: orcish75;683537
90KB/sec is very slow. I've got a GVP HC+8 card with a Guru ROM, connected to Mechy's native SCSI CF card reader on my A2000. I'm using a Transcend 16GB 133x CF card. I'm getting ~1.5MB/sec transfer rates on it regardless if I'm in 68000 or 68030 mode.

I had to disable synchronous transfers on the CF reader otherwise it would randomly lock up when copying large amounts of data. Disabling synchronous transfers didn't seem to have an impact on performance though.

The GVP card does SCSI DMA directly into it's onboard ram, I'm not sure if the A2091 does the same.

If you can, get a Guru rom for your A2091, it made a huge difference to my GVP HC+8 in terms of stability and performance. Unfortunately the adapters that the Guru rom plugs into are difficult to come by. The rom image itself is available on Ralph Babel's hompage http://babel.de/amiga.html but it won't work without the adapter.

Sorry I can't help you more..


Hard to get a picture of just the adapter.  I wonder if its just mapping one chipsize to another 1 to 1, or if there is some logic on it...
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: orcish75 on March 13, 2012, 03:06:55 PM
Quote
Hard to get a picture of just the adapter.  I wonder if its just mapping  one chipsize to another 1 to 1, or if there is some logic on it...    

The adapter has a PAL to do some sort of address decoding as the GVP/A2091 card only has enough address lines for a 16KB ROM (27C128). The Guru ROM is a 32KB chip (27C256). I have tried to copy the PAL but naturally it  has the copy bit enabled so I couldn't copy it.

It is frustrating as the Guru rom is no longer commercially available. I'm always happy to support any hardware vendors such as Jens and Ralph but when they decide to no longer support a device, they should make things like the PAL image available to everyone so that we can at least make the adapters ourselves. :(
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: CritAnime on March 13, 2012, 03:08:54 PM
Been having issues with my CF HDD. Though a recent format and reinstall on CLassicWB Full and PFS seems to have sorted it.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 13, 2012, 03:13:19 PM
Quote from: orcish75;683561
The adapter has a PAL to do some sort of address decoding as the GVP/A2091 card only has enough address lines for a 16KB ROM (27C128). The Guru ROM is a 32KB chip (27C256). I have tried to copy the PAL but naturally it  has the copy bit enabled so I couldn't copy it.

It is frustrating as the Guru rom is no longer commercially available. I'm always happy to support any hardware vendors such as Jens and Ralph but when they decide to no longer support a device, they should make things like the PAL image available to everyone so that we can at least make the adapters ourselves. :(


I did not realize that the chip was made by Ralph Babel - there's no chance we'll ever get that adapter array information.

I can get 7.0 ROMs for my card - its the rev 8 WB chip that is the hard one to find.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: CritAnime on March 13, 2012, 03:17:26 PM
Has anyone else tried the latest Indivision ECS firmware with the 800x600 super display yet? Works great with my LG LCD.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Ral-Clan on March 13, 2012, 03:43:25 PM
Quote from: Matt_H;683507
I'll run with this.

Kinda slow, actually. Anyone got any tips for a Compact Flash drive in a 2000 on a 2091 controller? Could bad termination be slowing things down? We're talking transfer rates in the 90K/s range.


Have you tried the utility "vb2091" on Aminet? It really made a big difference for me when using an an A2091 and a 68040 accelerator with 32-bit RAM on board.  Helps with the DMA issues.

aminet.net/package/driver/media/vb2091

I eventually bought a GURU Rom from my A2091, which was also good, but it was damaged a few years ago through some sort of electrical fault and I don't know if anyone can repair the GURU ROM (I guess the chips on it would have to be replaced and flashed with the GURU ROM code - I have the bin images for these chips but cannot burn them).

Here's some good reading on the A2091 and accelerator RAM DMA issues:
http://members.quicknet.nl/rhm.herold/computing/amiga/DMA%20and%20Accelerators%20FAQ.htm
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: orcish75 on March 13, 2012, 04:09:52 PM
Quote
I can get 7.0 ROMs for my card - its the rev 8 WB chip that is the hard one to find.    

Mechy sells them on his website, not too expensive either, it's the AMD version which is the same as the -08 WD version.

http://a4000t.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=210&zenid=ce58e464a2906f5a92768b7e20cdacd1

Cheers
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 13, 2012, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: orcish75;683571
Mechy sells them on his website, not too expensive either, it's the AMD version which is the same as the -08 WD version.

http://a4000t.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=210&zenid=ce58e464a2906f5a92768b7e20cdacd1

Cheers


Sweet!  Thanks a bunch!
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: orcish75 on March 13, 2012, 04:41:46 PM
It's a pleasure! :)

I'll swap my Guru rom for the regular v4.15 GVP rom and set my A2000 to 68000 mode and do some benchmarks for you. I know it's not exactly the same as your A2091, but it'll at least be an indication of what you can expect.

The main reason I went the CF route is that with all the expansion cards and 7200RPM SCSI drive in my A2000, the A2000 was getting REALLY hot. I could barely touch the HDD. After swapping it for the CF solution, it was running MUCH cooler but it also made my A2000 much faster. Not in terms of raw speed, but workbench operations are much snappier, opening a drawer with lots of games in it is now much quicker.

I'd definitely recommend going the CF route over a normal HDD.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 13, 2012, 07:48:05 PM
Quote from: orcish75;683575
It's a pleasure! :)

I'll swap my Guru rom for the regular v4.15 GVP rom and set my A2000 to 68000 mode and do some benchmarks for you. I know it's not exactly the same as your A2091, but it'll at least be an indication of what you can expect.

The main reason I went the CF route is that with all the expansion cards and 7200RPM SCSI drive in my A2000, the A2000 was getting REALLY hot. I could barely touch the HDD. After swapping it for the CF solution, it was running MUCH cooler but it also made my A2000 much faster. Not in terms of raw speed, but workbench operations are much snappier, opening a drawer with lots of games in it is now much quicker.

I'd definitely recommend going the CF route over a normal HDD.


I noticed a huge speedup in my A4000 when I stuck a CF card in it, and just on the motherboard IDE port, which everyone poo-poohs as slow.  Right now I am waiting to redo the caps on the mobo for her, so the 2000 is getting some love, since its recap is and was easily accomplished with just an iron and some solder wick.  There's something to be said for wide open and easily accessible componentry!
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Matt_H on March 13, 2012, 11:25:56 PM
What about Mask and Max Transfer rates for a 2091?
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Iggy on March 13, 2012, 11:38:31 PM
Quote from: CritAnime;683566
Has anyone else tried the latest Indivision ECS firmware with the 800x600 super display yet? Works great with my LG LCD.

While not following the rest of the thread, I find your question interesting.
I'm not that familiar with this piece of Jens' hardware.
How well does it work and what software is compatible with the 800x600 display?
At one time I ran PCs at this setting and it was adequate.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: CritAnime on March 14, 2012, 12:33:14 AM
Quote from: Iggy;683631
While not following the rest of the thread, I find your question interesting.
I'm not that familiar with this piece of Jens' hardware.
How well does it work and what software is compatible with the 800x600 display?
At one time I ran PCs at this setting and it was adequate.

It's only workbench that runs in 800x600 setting as you need the monitor settings to make it work. It certainly makes navigating though larger folders easier as you can really open the windows to see more stuff. I have the links laying around to a german forum with the superdrive(think it's called that) and the latest firmware. It however does eat memory if you have fancy workbench effects going. So I use the oldschool wb 1.3 theme on ClassicWB full as it looks good and keeps things zipping along. :)

As for the device it's self. It does an adequate job. I have no reason to complain for what I use it for.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Iggy on March 14, 2012, 12:38:07 AM
Quote from: CritAnime;683637
It's only workbench that runs in 800x600 setting as you need the monitor settings to make it work. It certainly makes navigating though larger folders easier as you can really open the windows to see more stuff. I have the links laying around to a german forum with the superdrive(think it's called that) and the latest firmware. It however does eat memory if you have fancy workbench effects going. So I use the oldschool wb 1.3 theme on ClassicWB full as it looks good and keeps things zipping along. :)

As for the device it's self. It does an adequate job. I have no reason to complain for what I use it for.

Thanks. I really like your A600 setup. Looks like a nice, compact, yet powerful system.

Jens still has some 42MHz accelerators for the 1200 that also look attractive (if he ever gets around to finishing the latest flicker fixer for that machine).

Hey, that's not too social, is it?
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: bbond007 on March 14, 2012, 01:13:10 AM
I had the GURU ROM for the GVP 4008... made a huge difference, I could not get my CD-ROM to work reliably before that.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: CritAnime on March 14, 2012, 01:05:13 PM
Quote from: Iggy;683638
Thanks. I really like your A600 setup. Looks like a nice, compact, yet powerful system.

Jens still has some 42MHz accelerators for the 1200 that also look attractive (if he ever gets around to finishing the latest flicker fixer for that machine).

Hey, that's not too social, is it?

I have just finished putting a HxC into it. So I no longer have to rely on disks at all with it. Sad in one way but makes life easier in another.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Iggy on March 14, 2012, 01:39:42 PM
Quote from: CritAnime;683699
I have just finished putting a HxC into it. So I no longer have to rely on disks at all with it. Sad in one way but makes life easier in another.

I know the feeling. I have 1.44 drives in two of my PCs, but they get very little use.
A few days ago I did use one to hold video card bios files for ATIflash.
But I booted the system with a CD and the latest version of ATIflash was also stored on CD because it was too large for the floppy.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Bigbronc on March 14, 2012, 05:28:08 PM
I have several A2000 toaster setups and use them for titles saved to DVD burners, I am tired of the same old fonts to display, looking in old mags I see that several font packages where sold. I check E bay but most of the time the disk are part of a pack of 100 disk sold as blanks, might be some thing or may not. I am looking for a font package for the toaster or any Dpaint program. something flashy not the large yellow font I use. also because I am a rule breaker, how about them Giants? SB 2012...
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Methuselas on March 14, 2012, 06:06:37 PM
Where are all the white women at??
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: CritAnime on March 15, 2012, 02:58:53 AM
Quote from: Iggy;683702
I know the feeling. I have 1.44 drives in two of my PCs, but they get very little use.
A few days ago I did use one to hold video card bios files for ATIflash.
But I booted the system with a CD and the latest version of ATIflash was also stored on CD because it was too large for the floppy.

it was a tough decision to not have a proper floppy drive in the 600. But as a gaming machine first and everything else second I needed to think of the longevity of the system. Which meant going for WHDLoad and HxC. It's awesome, don't get me wrong, as the HxC does all the proper click sounds a real floppy drive would do. But it doesn't have the same feel now. If you get my drift.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: mechy on March 15, 2012, 02:39:09 PM
Quote from: orcish75;683561
The adapter has a PAL to do some sort of address decoding as the GVP/A2091 card only has enough address lines for a 16KB ROM (27C128). The Guru ROM is a 32KB chip (27C256). I have tried to copy the PAL but naturally it  has the copy bit enabled so I couldn't copy it.

It is frustrating as the Guru rom is no longer commercially available. I'm always happy to support any hardware vendors such as Jens and Ralph but when they decide to no longer support a device, they should make things like the PAL image available to everyone so that we can at least make the adapters ourselves. :(

I have talked to ralph about this at one time, and because places like softhut list them but do not have them,ralph won't release the code because he says it would undercut vendors. I explained that i contacted softhut and they don't have the guru roms but this did no good.

mech
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 15, 2012, 02:46:30 PM
Quote from: mechy;683872
I have talked to ralph about this at one time, and because places like softhut list them but do not have them,ralph won't release the code because he says it would undercut vendors. I explained that i contacted softhut and they don't have the guru roms but this did no good.

mech


Aren't you an Amiga Vendor?  Do you not qualify as a distributor?
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Piru on March 15, 2012, 04:36:29 PM
(http://sintonen.fi/pics/amigatunkkaus.jpg)
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Iggy on March 15, 2012, 08:10:33 PM
Quote from: Piru;683887
(http://sintonen.fi/pics/amigatunkkaus.jpg)

Amiga, can of beer, G5 Mac in the background.
What's the point Harry?
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 15, 2012, 08:25:04 PM
Quote from: Iggy;683911
Amiga, can of beer, G5 Mac in the background.
What's the point Harry?

Just that he's an OG Finnish Pimp...
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: smerf on March 16, 2012, 01:56:15 AM
Quote from: Cass;683542
I`m about to buy the IDE2CF adapters (CF card included) from AmigaKit, one for a barebones A1200 and one for my A4000 (CSPPC/060@50). How do they perform respect to a standard IDE HD?


Hi,

Been trying for about 18 months now to get a CF and a CD drive working together, I don't think it can be done, something there is not allowing something not to talk. Anyhow if I use the CF drive alone it works great. And Paleese don't say I need a buffer for this to work, I have a 4 way buffered ide interface.

This is what makes the Amiga fun

smerf
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: CritAnime on March 16, 2012, 02:30:57 AM
I was just thinking. Would I be able to get Amix working on my 600 with Accelerator I have installed?
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Matt_H on March 16, 2012, 04:26:18 AM
Quote from: CritAnime;683947
I was just thinking. Would I be able to get Amix working on my 600 with Accelerator I have installed?


I don't think so. Amix has very limited hardware/driver support. It might start to boot, but it probably won't recognize the onboard IDE as a 2091 or the A3000's onboard SCSI, so you'll be without a hard drive. I think there's a good chance it won't recognize the accelerator's RAM, either.
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: CritAnime on March 16, 2012, 04:47:26 AM
Fair enough. Just thought I would ask as it seemed interesting. Maybe I could emulate it?
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: LoadWB on March 16, 2012, 06:46:21 AM
Quote from: smerf;683946
Hi,

Been trying for about 18 months now to get a CF and a CD drive working together, I don't think it can be done, something there is not allowing something not to talk. Anyhow if I use the CF drive alone it works great. And Paleese don't say I need a buffer for this to work, I have a 4 way buffered ide interface.

This is what makes the Amiga fun

smerf


That and the Voo-Doo of SCSI.  If you're trying the CF and CD on the same chain, a thought comes to mind: master/slave configuration, but not your settings -- maybe the CF or its adapter doesn't like having a slave present.  I've seen that in the world of old IDE hard drives.  If they're on separate chains, then your guess is as good as mine.  Anyone have an IDE protocol analyzer?
Title: Re: The strictly Amiga only thread. No socializing!
Post by: Matt_H on March 16, 2012, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: CritAnime;683959
Fair enough. Just thought I would ask as it seemed interesting. Maybe I could emulate it?


WinUAE might be able to do it these days. I recall that Amix needs an MMU, which WinUAE didn't emulate for a long time, but I think it does now. And it definitely has 2091 emulation.