Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: redrumloa on January 12, 2004, 01:45:13 PM
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We are considering actually entering the market after all. This thread in particular is mostly aimed at people who still use classic boxes.
Ok first throw out the A1 and Pegasos. Great, now that we did that what product would YOU like to see?
I'll start first.
-> I'd like a new PPC accelerator for classic Amigas at a reasonable price.
We are actually evaluating it, but to be completely honest it's not likely to happen. The cost of R&D would probably never get recouped, even if OS4 became a smash hit on classic boxes:-(
-> Our own PCI solution ~50% cheaper than current options.
This is a very good possibility.
And now YOU. What would YOU like to see? We are thinking mainly hardwarewise. Would you like to see a cheaper RGB->VGA adapter? An extinct product ressurected? What? I'd really like to hear alot of opinions. This is mainly aimed at hardware, not software.
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I would like to see a new ppc g4 card supporting 1ghz or more for 1200 or 4000 with a slot for a geforce4 card or similar :-)
Not too expensive ofcourse ;-)
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restore2003 wrote:
I would like to see a new ppc g4 card supporting 1ghz or more for 1200 or 4000 with a slot for a geforce4 card or similar :-)
Not too expensive ofcourse ;-)
Sounds like You are talking about SharkPPC+ G4 (http://www.buy.elbox.com/cgibin/shop?info=330SP1G) ;-)
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@hnl_dk:
EUR 449.95? :-o And thats with the cheapest processor? Too expensive option, u need the mediator too :-o
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@ redrum
You must forgive my ignorance here, but are you stating that the re-entry into the market entails manufacture of certain products (ie hardware), or of re-selling them as NOS etc?
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I'd like a pci backplane for A3000D which will not require the whole thing to move to a tower. ;-)
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Hi Redrumola,
Here's hoping you DO enter the market... I would like to see an inexpensive (< $200 USD) graphics card for the classic boxes (or at least the A4000 since that's the one I have..) ;-)
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You must forgive my ignorance here, but are you stating that the re-entry into the market entails manufacture of certain products (ie hardware),
Possibly, very possibly. Thus the reason I post this:-)
or of re-selling them as NOS etc?
Less likely, but if we find it you never know.
IMO the only way to squeak out a profit in this market is to really have your ear to the ground, so to speak, to see what people actually want.
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A good upgrade to Amithlon, like Amithlon2K4 (all unoffical) or some product like that what runs on the hardware i want instead of very expensive hardware.
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L8Knight wrote:
Hi Redrumola,
Here's hoping you DO enter the market... I would like to see an inexpensive (< $200 USD) graphics card for the classic boxes (or at least the A4000 since that's the one I have..) ;-)
Does that include a PCI solution, or only a Zorro?
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Here's hoping you DO enter the market... I would like to see an inexpensive (< $200 USD) graphics card for the classic boxes (or at least the A4000 since that's the one I have..)
Vesalia sells CV643D's for ~130 euros.
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Well, you already know what I'd like to see there Red.
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@L8Knight
I've actually had a design for one sitting on the shelf for years.
Hey Red, think there'd be enough of a market for this?
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downix wrote:
Hey Red, think there'd be enough of a market for this?
Probably if we can bring it to market cheap enough. I think <$100US is a must. We'll talk:-)
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redrumloa wrote:
-> Our own PCI solution ~50% cheaper than current options.
This is a very good possibility.
How about resurrecting some sort of Zorro busboard expansion for the A1200. I can't seem to find any these days :).
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a ppc faster or sharkppc with g4, support for good agp graphics cards. A new SCSI & IDE controller up to this days... new 68k too... coldfire (coldfusion project) is a good solution, new expasions for amiga cd32 for ppc/gfx cards, akiko for all amiga models... mpg2 video decoder for view on classic amigas mpg2/dvd... and of course, a lot of sofware too... =)
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And now YOU. What would YOU like to see? We are thinking mainly hardwarewise. Would you like to see a cheaper RGB->VGA adapter? An extinct product ressurected? What? I'd really like to hear alot of opinions. This is mainly aimed at hardware, not software.
Seriously, the thang I'd like to see is:
A cpu card that sports a fast x86 CPU + fast memory controller. Perhaps also tie it to a PCI board so we can finally have quick PCI and forget all about ZorroII or III.. :-)
Ok? Now what makes it special? Have a firmware on it that emulates an 040 processor perfectly, but at great speed. :-) (the 040 is IMHO more compatible than the 060)
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Flicker fixers.
Ethernet boards.
32 bit Z3 ram board for 3000, 4000.
Clock crystals.
Floppy drives under $45.00
Tower kits something like the 51% airplane kits. In other words a tower with the cutouts and parts, but not assembled. (To make it less expensive)
Something like the Bodega Bay expansion for the A500, but with CPU slot and PCI perhaps (for flat Amigas).
Accelerators!!
I am sure I am forgetting something, but I'll think of it later ;-)
red, thank you for the EXCELLENT A500 on Ebay!
Dave
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@Jope:
In theory that is completely possible. You could make a card with a standard socket for an Athlon, or P4. You'd have to have a flashrom that initialises the card, and launches a JIT 040 emulation and then sets about executing kickstart. I'm not sure you'd get your R&D money back, though, and I'd rather get a G4 to run OS4 on :-).
Oliver Day will be solving similar problems getting his coldfire card running.
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@hnl_dk
I added SharkPPC to my wish list. :-D
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Here's a thought:
a 3D accelerator-graphics card with hardware MPEG1+2 decoder that allows AGA graphics overlay (with outline capability) for both ZorroIII Amigas and a 1200 version. Perfect suggestion for arcade games! Its own firmware should be allowed to upgrade to handle more complex 3D graphics. 256MB max RAM DIMM socket(s).
Everything else I would probably see on a mediator like 100Mb ethernet card, 16bit sound card and more.
:-)
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I'm after two things.
First would mean NEW Amiga stuff ... and since the AmigaOne Sports the most standard-interfaces, this is more a problem of software.
"VINTAGE" things:
I have been after a Viper 530 / 50 MHz for some time now, without avail. It does not really fir my needs anyway, too much things on the one side (interfaces), too little on the other.
I dream about the final 68k-socket *accelerator*.
- 68030 or 68040 @ 50 MHz (maybe 68060, but I doubt that it would fit in an A500 or A1000)
- Using standard SIMMS (up to 128 or so)
- FlashROM, like the Blizzard TurboMemory board had, but it should either keep the ROM image after power-off or use the actual KickROM of the Amiga. Would save lots of money for 3.1 ROMs or would maybe even enable a 3.5 ROM?? Main advantage would be to have the KickROM accelerated!?
-68000 fallback mode with memory still enabled
-clockport (like the adaptor from Katodev was going to offer).
- an AGA option??
And of course, it should all fit into a A500 AND A1000 ;)
Thats it basically :)
Oh, and by the way: I am not after a PPC accelerator for the classics. I'd be rather after the coldfire accelerator... if only one was made to fit in the Sidecar!!
Thats what I am after.
Good luck,
McTrinsic
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Personally, I have been looking at getting a PPC for my 3000 so I would like to see a resonably priced one hit the market :)
A decentish Zorro based sound card would be nice, to take some load off the CPU.
Keyboards for big box Amigas seem to be hard to find/expensive as well as diskdrives (basic essential things we never really think of but realise they are extremely important when they break).
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Many of the items mentioned above, but I would also like to see things like new spare parts for existing systems. Power Supplies, CPU boards, graphics boards, etc. I want to keep my baby running in addition to adding more toys to it.
:-)
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restore2003 wrote:
@hnl_dk:
EUR 449.95? :-o And thats with the cheapest processor? Too expensive option, u need the mediator too :-o
I know it is expensive ... but was it not what you wanted ;-)
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@hnl_dk:
Yeah, its what i wanted, but too expensive.
Therefore i want a new card to be available at a lower price ;-)
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I would something (PPC,CF,x86, I don't mind) that is fast on doing 68k, fits into
an A1200 (or maybe even an A600), features a reasonable current GFX-chip
(lets say something like the stuff used on VIA's ITX-boards, nothing fancy&hot),
and still is a real Amiga. Would be prepared to pay 300-400 Euro for that, depending
on features.
PCI-Slots for my A2000 would be nice, but those would probraly only make
sense in combination with an accellarator.
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>Does that include a PCI solution, or only a Zorro?
*shrug* For me only a Zorro solution, but I don't know if a PCI solution would be better for others... (Couldn't any 'generic' PCI based PC card meet this request then?)
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Quiet everything that the other guys have mentioned. I'm currently looking for an SX expansion for my CD??, just to be able using it as a full computer.
That means expansions/upgrades to all the vintage AMiGAs, at a reasonable price (we always had to pay more that the average computer user, due to custom solutions... A new start may bring back even old users -as hobby, or collectors- that have put their Amigas in the closet)
________
Ascari (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Ferrari_Ascari)
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@ redrumloa
Are you actually thinking of starting a new company to develop new hardware for the "classic" Amiga market? Wow! Are you thinking of living on this, or will it be more "a work of love"?
A bold mission nevertheless, since the few classics still not in the closet are probably dying in an increasing pase.
And just out of curiousity, who are "we"?
redrumloa wrote:
I'll start first.
-> I'd like a new PPC accelerator for classic Amigas at a reasonable price.
We are actually evaluating it, but to be completely honest it's not likely to happen. The cost of R&D would probably never get recouped, even if OS4 became a smash hit on classic boxes:-(
It could perhaps be made "the Eyetech" way; buying a batch of pre-made boards from outside the community and sell them here? Wasn't the SharkPPC (at least the first "versions") very similar to a certain Mac PCI based CPU upgrade? The software part might be a nightmare though ...
And now YOU. What would YOU like to see? We are thinking mainly hardwarewise. Would you like to see a cheaper RGB->VGA adapter? An extinct product ressurected? What? I'd really like to hear alot of opinions. This is mainly aimed at hardware, not software.
The Amiga was traditionally very strong on Video/TV production. It worked both on PAL and NTSC, and in several resolutions. The custom graphics chips could be synced from an external source, so it was very popular to use it with genlocks. The custom hardware made things very smooth and flicker free, without heavy CPU usage.
Both the BoXeR and the Commodore One (http://c64upgra.de/c-one/s_specs.htm) uses/would use FPGA's to accomplish solutions very similar to the Amiga custom chips, with coppers, blitters, hardware sprites, etc (of course, the C-1 also has to take the C64 in account).
Both the Pegasos and the A1 hardware goes the mainstream PC/Mac way, with all standard components. That is great for a cost/price POV, but it does not make the hardware stand out.
I would like to see a new "Amiga" custom chipset. It could be made with FPGA's, fast and easy (ehrm, sort of at least). The features of the Xilinx Virtex-II Pro FPGA's (http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xil_prodcat_landingpage.jsp?title=Virtex-II+Pro+FPGAs) looks kind of interesting IMO, as an option they can even include PPC CPU cores on the chip (up to four of them).
Forget about advanced 3D, there is no way (and no reason) to compete with the 3D chips developers. This is about powerful 2D with consumer TV's and video production in mind, with improved custom chips features. Perhaps some basic 3D functionality that can be used for 2D planes manipulation (for zooming, twisting, rotating, picture in picture, etc). It should be flexible and powerful in screen resolutions and modes (all VGA/SVGA resolutions/modes included, all TV modes, and it should go as far as HDTV), it should use 32 bit graphic (alpha channel in hardware), it should offer multiple displays, it should have a blitter, a copper, "windowing mode" (smooth HW scrolling of a small view of a much bigger screen), etc. It should offer HW antialiasing. It should offer at least one video in channel, with built in genlocking functionality.
As a start you could produce a graphic card with this chipset (or with sound too, a "media" card) in PCI/AGP. This could be used outside the Amiga world too, in PC's and Mac's for video editing/broadcast solutions. It should offer high quality video output, multiple displays, lots of connector options (including component video connectors). If the chipset has a built in CPU (like the virtex), it could run an OS internally (AROS with custom low level, hardware banging drivers in asm?) which handles everything internally "the Amiga way", independent of the OS on the main board.
This chipset could also be used in STB's and other consumer electronics/home entertainment products.
A new "Amiga" motherboard with a new custom chipset would be great too. It should be PPC of course, and it would also have PCI/AGP for expansions (and 3D cards for the ones who wants one of these).
But I'm just dreaming away here! :-D
It will be interesting to see what (if anything) may come out of your plans.
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I would like a fairly cheap PPC or ColdFire board for my A3000, that would be really cool. Also as mentioned previously cheap keyboard or floppy drive solutions cos they are quite hard to get hold of. :-)
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In regard to the Zorro bus, I've always wondered if a PCI-to-Zorro adaptor or . . .
a AGP-to-Zorro adaptor . . .
could enable the use of certain plentiful (and cheap) PC expansion cards on big-box Amigas? What I'm referring to is a Zorro Card base with a PCI (or AGP) bus socket offset behind it. . . . . like an 'L' shapped Zorro Card where the other card connects on the adaptor (PCI or AGP) and snugs into a stiffener vertical fitting on the Half-Zorro section.
GVP had a feature connector on certain of their GForce accellerator cards that at least one 32bit Gfx Card fitted onto.
That was the Spectrum 110/24(?), and due to the 32bit connection bypassed the 16bit ZorroII bus of the A2000.
Spectrum 110/24 (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/spectrum110.html)
With that LAST in mind; is it at all feasable to manufacture a CPU-Slot passthrough AGP connector that still allows the accellerator to be used? This last, if feasable, may be applicable to A2000 and CD32-Upgrades.
~ ~ Still wondering how those ColdFire accellerators are coming along?
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I would like to see a PCI/Zorro backplane replacement for A3000D
models and preferably it shouldn't cost more than $100.
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Personally, I have been looking at getting a PPC for my 3000 so I would like to see a resonably priced one hit the market :)
Yep... A CPU Card PPC for A3000/4000. Heck, even at a high price, it'd probably be a decent seller. Dodgy 3rd and 4th hand ones go on eBay for hundreds. I'd probably be willing to pay a few hundred for a one that was tested solid, but right now, there are so many defective/damaged ones on the market, who knows if one is good or not? I'm not really willing to roll the dice on odds that bad. The new solution needs to be compatible with the current PPC software, though.
Other projects I think would be cool.......
1) Amiga RGB -> Component Video adaptor. I commented about this in a post here about Plasma TVs a few days ago. As the idea kept rattling around in my brain, it kept coming back as a fairly simple thing to do, and would be a welcome addition. Maybe tack an S-Video plug on it, as well. Should be able to fit a form factor similiar to an A520 TV adaptor.
2) Along the same lines, I have another problem. I use an A1200 for games. I have an NTSC only television that I like to play games on. Most games swtich to PAL. Television then refuses to display. So... A gaming-priced PAL/NTSC converter would be useful. This could probably be marketed cross-community, because PlayStation2 importers and such run into the same problems. All too many TVs in North America are NTSC only.
So, how about it, sirs?
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Are you actually thinking of starting a new company to develop new hardware for the "classic" Amiga market?
Not the classic Amiga market specifically, but that was/is one of our original intended markets.
Are you thinking of living on this
Luckily I do not smoke crack. I do not expect to become a millionaire on such a small market. OTOH I do expect to be able to turn a small profit. It would be nice to one day be able to focus our entire energy at only the company.
since the few classics still not in the closet are probably dying in an increasing pase.
This is our thoughts. Why are the classics getting neglected? The is no good new product out there, or the price is unreasonable. PCI adapters are nice, but who wants to pay $300-$500 to get PCI slots? I think there is only a potential market for some who agressively goes out and makes it. And no as I stated don't have idiotic visions of grandure. If we turn a small profit and have new toys to play with ourself, fine.
And just out of curiousity, who are "we"?
The principals of the company are myself and Cybereye and work daily on it. There are a few other people in supporting, part time rolls and we have a few specific people who do alot of contract work for us. I specifically don't try to pretend that we are some huge company, but it is we not just me:-)
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@Redrumloa:
Can`t we make a poll with 10 options or more? Ehm...Moderators?
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Well, I wouldn't buy it, but if I was to buy something, I would buy it. ;-)
What I'm thinking of is av DVD/MPEG/etc-addition for the Classics, with included genlock and network capabilities so that you can hook it up to your TV as a media station, in an easy manner.
I'm dabbling with a genlock (Rocgen, those old crappy ones), RGB-signals and stuff, and almost has it working so that you can watch TV as usual but with the extra addition of an Amiga screen (superimposed RGB, no composite-crap!) with iBrowse and stuff. The thing I'd like to have is a DVD-card that can play DVD's (if I hadn't bought that DVD-player ofcourse).
Oh, yeah, as an extra addition to my own system I also have a PAR. I got it cheap, actually free, including an A3000/060 and lots of SCSI-stuff. :-D
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Red, you have Three options;
1. Develop a new OS for our 68K based Amiga's, with new features and bug fixes... Might I suggest using an open source Amiga like OS as the basis of this...
2. Make keyboards identical in every way to the A4000's keyboard except they are USB compatible (and should come with a PS/2 adaptor), this could be used with USB capible A1200 tower conversions, Pegs/A1's and PC's...
3. Talk to Dammy about his "Plans" ;-)
The choice is yours :-D
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G3/G4 accelerator card for A3/4000 and 1200 would be very cool, perhaps using the same Megarray socket the AmigaOne has to share CPU modules.
PCI bridge that would directly replace the Zorro riser cards in A3/4000 desktops, as well as something more like Prometheus for original tower Amigas and whatever for A1200, which would also have an AGP slot. I realize there's no way the Zorro3 slot could provide current AGP transfer speds, but it would be ncie to be able to use AGP cards, as PCI versions of the same cards I find are much harder (though not impossible) to find. This would make shopping for graphocs cards easier and also provide more variety, for example Radeon AllInWonder cards (including TV tuner/output) are not available in the PCI variants that I've seen.
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xeron wrote:
@Jope:
Oliver Day will be solving similar problems getting his coldfire card running.
But he won't have even close to the horsepower an x86 + JIT solution would bring (or compatibility)
I wish there was a way to make such an emu-card feasible.
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I've always liked all-in-one solutions that make so-called "simple" upgrades painless.
My list would include either a box for putting a PC power supply onto a 1200 with no soldering, or maybe a custom 100-150 watt supply that is a direct replacement for the crummy 1200 power supply. Discount deals with PPC accelerators would be sweet. :)
A simple, compact box that houses a laptop CD-ROM or DVD, that plugs into a 1200. I've taken my machine apart many times, but would never make it into a tower!
And of course...
A cheaper way of reading Amiga floppies on a PC. I have to believe there's a better way to make a hardware emulator with a PCI card and, say, an EC68020, to read ONLY Amiga floppies, instead of spending almost $100 for a Flipper card that uses a custom IC to read hundreds of floppy formats. Is an custom IC even needed to drive an Amiga floppy, or can it be done with Radio Shack parts? :-D
Or maybe what we need is a 1.4 meg floppy drive for the Amiga... *anything* to transfer files from an Amiga to WinUAE that doesn't involve a null modem cable!
-- Wac, who is now, finally, running Linux!
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I know you said not software..but...
Hardware is always great..but if you have no software that utilizes it...its just there doing nothing. Invest in the Amizilla project.. U will be da man.
If you write the software, the hardware will come (since both the Pegasos and A1 are already powerful systems..they just lack software)
As for hardware...I thought the BoXeR was awesome idea at the time.
I find it difficult to believe that if you make new hardware (video) for classic Amiga's that it will actually be put to use..PC's/Mac's are more powerful and already have surpassed the classic Amiga in the video department. If I was in your shoes I'd work on A1 or Pegasos hardware/software..that is the future.
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I love how Amithlon has put real speed into AmigaOS.
Now if I could find some way to FORCE my Video Toaster/Flyer cards into my $500 homebuilt PC, I would be happy.
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Anybody could any idea why Bill's post is allways on the end of the threat,
evenso it has atleast 3 posts added afterwards.
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A handheld Amiga 1200 clone with a 320x200 lcd display, and a small HDD (a few gigs) which is able to boot and play games from ADFs, utilising the thousand games which are out: the old software base in a new wrapping. Having an USB connector, probably with TV out, builtin CD32 joypad and infrared/bluetooth multiplayer options (emulating the second joyport this way).
Now that would be nice for a competitive price.
My 2 eurocents :-)
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What would be nice is for someone to fill the void to true mobile solutions for the Amiga. It being a laptop and/or PDA.
I still think that the AmigaOne/Pegasos efforts should not be eclipsed by other efforts until they have reached a foothold in the market. I personally believe that AmigaOS 4.2 should be the candidate for mass market instead of AmigaOS 5.
my 2 cents
:-D
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yes..a classic Amiga laptop WOULD be cool. that would be so awesome. A A1200 would be ok, as long as it played all of the old games.
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I would like to see a return to the Amiga. I honestly don`t feel that the newer attempts really are, they just don`t feel the same! (am I being too nostalgic?)
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what product would YOU like to see?
Good software!
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Ok, maybe I'm thinking outside the box, or maybe someone slipped me some crack, but what I would like to see is an amiga to PC bridge / Emulater adaptor.
I don't mean a bridge card like C= offered, I mean a connecter that would plug into the Zorro, PCI, or whatever on the Amiga, and the other end plug into a PCI socket on a PC. From there the Driver and emulator writers could do whatever they want.
Via makes some nice mini-atx motherboards that when loaded with the right software, would basically be a large add in card. Some even without fans.
Here is how I would see it working:
Write a driver on the Amiga to access the vCard. (Virtual Card)
Load linux onto the PC.
Write a driver that gives access to your application via the PCI port that is connected to the Amiga.
So, if you want a wireless/gigabit network card, you write a PC driver works with the aleady existing linux software router. Tada! One driver works with every network card that the Linux community is supporting.
Want a 3d grafics card? Write one driver, and you have support for every 3d grafics card that the Linux community supports.
Want a 300gig hard drive? USB 2.0 support? Firewire? Scanners? If the Linux community supports them, a generic driver can be written that would support any brand make or model. (Obviously a different driver would be needed for each class of hardware.)
This could work just as easily for emulation on the PC side. Do you want a super fast 68040 accelorator card? A driver and hack to UAE, and it's a PCI accelorator card. Heck, there is no reason that you couldn't even add a command that would allow the Amiga to change which CPU the accelorator is acting as.
Benefits to your company include:
*Your cost of development would be limited to a handful of interfaces. As little as one.
*The same technique could be applied to PC and Mac products for added revenue.
*Once the PC board is purchase by the customer, your product gives them an almost unlimited amount of inexpensive expandability. (Many people may even have a spare PC laying around that they could use at no extra cost)
*Solves the PCI "problem".
*Leverages the huge Linux community to add capabilities to the Amiga.
*Offers a great deal of flexability to the end user. Do they want a low power EPIA based fanless "vCard", or do they want one in it's own case that runs at a blistering 3 ghz?
*Your solution gains power at exactly the same rate that PC solution do.
*Your solution should be fairly simple, so it could be developed relatively quickly, and at a relatively low cost.
There is no reason that multiple bride cards couldn't be used to allow for multiple devices in a single add-on PC Just bridge to different PCI ports on the PC.
Does this sound like the rambalings of a man who was hit too hard in the head?
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I think getting the Blizzard 2604 (A2000 PPC board) into production would be a great idea. 2000s are cheap and easy to find, and with a board like this, the OS4/MorphOS market could be expanded onto a much wider user base. The board also has the same expansion slot as the Cyberstorm PPC, so the CVPPC or Grex could be connected, too (electronically, at least).
Best part of all is that the R&D designs are (I *think*) done. You'd just need to get them from DCE.
Other suggestions:
Combination Zorro/PCI bus for 1200Ts (cheaper than Z4+Mediator)
More scandoublers
1200 style case for MicroA1 (and Peg2?)
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Does this sound like the rambalings of a man who was hit too hard in the head?
Well, IMHO, it's both ingenious and crazed. But, if you take the idea one step further, I say it was already attempted. The best project of post 2000 Amiga community, and it was killed by greed and politics.
Here's the thing... You've essentially got a low-powered computer (Original Amiga) acting as a front end for a slave high-powered processing machine (the PC) The interface would probably cause a bit of a bottleneck. Plus, essentially, you'd just be using the classic Amiga as a front-end.
You've already got a high powered PC sitting there. Why don't you just virtualize the Amiga front end on it? It wouldn't cause much of a performance hit. Then you can run with totally off-the-shelf hardware.
I present you with Amithlon. Our dreams crushed. :-(
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How about an RTG amiga (like draco) on a mini-itx or smaller board with on board graphics and sound.
Other than that the old custom chips on a pci card for peg/A1 sounds good.
Hmm if both are possible combine the two and make a mini-itx classic amiga \o/
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I just want an Amiga 3000UX bundle (http://amiga.emugaming.com/a3000ux.html). :-D
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What would I like to see?
A flicker-fixer for the A1200 (internal or external) that flickerfixes *all* video modes, as in whatever is thrown at it. All the ones currently available only seem to fix the standard PAL/NTSC ones included in the OS, but I use a non-sandard mode, and my eyes start to hurt after extended use of my amiga :-/
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redrumloa wrote:
since the few classics still not in the closet are probably dying in an increasing pase.
This is our thoughts. Why are the classics getting neglected? The is no good new product out there, or the price is unreasonable.
Well, the classic Amigas are dying of age one after another. No new classic amigas has been produced for ages. Perhaps this is where to start, producing a new "Amiga"? It will desperately need updated specifications though. Perhaps the old BoXeR design could be acquired to get a flying start? ;-)
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I wouldn't object to an external tv modulator. But even better would be something that accepts firewire DV in... I know Amiga bus can't handle the Firewire's raw info rate, but maybe there's a way to use onboard compression over the video slot or some such?
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I would like a new classic compitable system, for playing classic Amiga games in case similar to a600 and similar, or laptop like :-D Is hard to get hold of working amiga's at a decent price this days..
I also would like to see some tv modulators, as it is impossible to get them today.. I contacted a few amigashops but none of them can get hold of them, which means i will be stuck with b/w on my good old a500 :boohoo:
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hello
a new 68K-based amiga motherboard with respectable RTG graphics, AHI sound and WHDLoad bundled is bound to cause some stir among us enthusiasts (particularly if the price is right)!
As said before, the BoXer would be great , but anything would do....
new accelerators is what many people seem to be after - whether it is for the A500 (I want a Viper 530!!), A2000 or 3/4Ks - perhaps some kind of modular 'universal solution' based on Zorro I for the A500 and working its way upwards may be a good idea - though demanding in terms of R&D
Dreaming aside, real life economics really limit the feasible hardware options - there are just not enough of us
Red's best bet (depending on the resources at his disposal) would be to approach an existing, or defunct amiga hw project and secure a deal - improving it along the way
whatever you decide Red - good luck!
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I tried posting htis earlier but didn't see it show up, so I musta hit preview and thought it was submitted... :)
I'd love to se a G3/G4 accelerator for my A4000T (Quikpak style) to put more life into it. Though I am going to have an AmigaOne as well. Perhaps an accelerator with a Megarray socket to share CPU module design with the AmigaOne...
A PCI bridge with an AGP slot (as well as Zorro and maybe one video slot if you want but I'd rather have PCI/AGP slots myself) that directly replaces the Zorro /ISA/Video slot riser cards in the desktop A3000/4000. One of the Mediators does this in A4000D, but not for my A3000D. :/ Then we could put the covers back on and use PCI cards without stuff sticking above the top of the machine preventing it from being closed up. And variations that fit original tower versions of A3000/4000 and something for A1200 users. I realize classics can't keep up with AGP speed, I'd just like functional use as AGP cards are more convenient to shop for and may offer more features than their PCI counterparts, such as the Radeon AllInWonder cards that include TV tuner/outputs not found on harder to find PCI Radeons.
And finally, a Buster replacement that could increase bus speeds beyond the available Buster 11 chips. A small FPGA board fitting intot he socket should be relatively easy to do, and SMT sockets can be fixed to boards currently having SMT Busters, making it possible to put the board in these machines as well as into socketed A3000 types. We could have more performance from aging machines this way and get faster PCI card accesses via the Amiga bus as well as fom Zorro3 native cards...
All designs with firmware ugradable FPGAs (SRAM FPGA with configuration EEPROM) to allow bug fixes and other enhancements via internet download and floppy disk program to re-burn the EEPROM/FLASH type thing, rather than sending board in for upgrading that can take a long time.
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This is all getting too much for me to take in! It would be really great if just a little of what's being thrown around here could really happen. But what sort of timeframe is involved?
After waiting a decade for the faintest signs of life returning to the Amiga market, I don't think I could wait much more yet again. I'm too old, I ain't gonna be around long enough.
I'm committed to my A1200T. I'd like an A1 but it's not gonna happen. I've spent too much to swap it now. So, any development involving PPC with JIT emulation of 680XX will suit me just fine. I'd like to run OS4 without having to get another mortgage to do so.
Cheers,
JaX
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Forget about advanced 3D, there is no way (and no reason) to compete with the 3D chips developers.
Au Contraire.
3D chip vendors have stopped innovating, and the quality of products is starting to show. My now 4-year old Kyro II renders scenes that look better than my brand-new Radeon.
You can also license a core, such as the PowerVR or 3DLabs to include in such a chipset. So you get a brand-new chipset while not the R&D effort needed to develop a 3D.
So the best of both worlds.
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For my the best hardware item for A1200/A4000/A3000 and others amiga computers is a motorola Coldfire... is 68k familiar and currently the speed is 220Mhz and 333Mhz (610 mips) and up to 800Mhz (1400 mips!!!!) with superscalar EMAC MMU Coldfires planned, Coldfire roolz!!! JIT? i dont know this speed emulated :P we dont have any power with this? bahhhhhh
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actually many people is wanting this they just hope it different way.
New classic amiga motherboard, it shoul be cheap (as possible), WITHOUT aga, gary, paula and others 3xPCIs should be enough.
Like amiathlon only RTG and AHI supported programs should work, only just real amiga.
Orginal Amiga ROMS would be from customers old computers.
That would be retro:::
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I want a replacement mobo that has a decent processor - coldfire or 060 would be fine. Audio, video, fast ide, enet, usb etc.
Also A1200 audio, video (w/ff) and rom chip slots for running classic stuff. Auto sensing Pal/NTSC graphic switching would be nice.
Graphics that would allow on board AGA graphics to play through as if they are a tv video input source that has a scaleable window without the need for scan doubling.
Audio would be sequenced through as an incoming pass through signal.
Goal: A new, more modernized classic Amiga mobo, small, low power and cool ofcourse. :-D
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a small cheap PPC accelerator which will fit into a desktop 1200. not everyone who wants the power wants to own a tower!!
(hey that rhymes)
:-)
got a marketing gimmick already lol
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My wishlist:
1. G3/G4 and G5 cards that can be used on every Amiga model. Cpuslot-usage on those which have it ofcourse.
2. Coldfusion.
3. SCSI card for Zorro, I would like to see an upgraded FastlaneZ3 with widescsi and sdram or ddr instead of the 30pin solution just because sdram and ddr are easier to get hold on. It would be great if the card could utilize the mems too. :-)
4. Zorro->AGP, same reason as with the mem. It´s easier and cheaper to buy an AGP card.
5. Cooling stuff, CPU-coolers (with bluelight) and so on.
6. DSP cards, mostly to use with sound and music but even to speed up the Amiga in any way possible.
7. New tower and desktop boxes, but with a similar design as the original. I think they are soooo fine.
8. Pure memory cards that can use sdram or ddr.
9. A new official Amiga mouse with a scrollwheel, five buttons and it should be optical (i.e. no ball) that uses the joystickport like it always has been. Or maybe with a usb->joystick adapter.
10. All this should work only on Zorro i.e. no PCI solutions, isn´t that classic then I don´t know what is.
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I'd like to see a cheap graphics card, sound card and pci board for classic amigas, possibly a bundle. Heck i'd like a cheap tower case, that wont be a crappy plastic thing too. Hey how about a good flight stick for once:)
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Well... feel the need to enter a few lines here... here's what I'd like:
1. SD/FF for the A1200/4000... prised at around 30$
2. Floppydrives DD and HD... prised at around 20 and 45$
3. Wireless mice and keyboard combo... priced at around 45$
4. Cheap 040 and 060 turbo for A1200 with SCSI and "BVision connector"... prised at around 70 and 150$
5. A cool 5.25" faceplate with Amiga logo seethrough for cool "glowire effect"... prised at a mere 10$
6. Got many more but they might seem trivial so I'll stop here for hardware.
Software up next:
1. CD/DVDBurner tool... prised at 20$
2. TCP/IP stack... WE NEED A FREEWARE OPTION!
3. "Probometer" software bundled with 5.25" faceplate with screen, buttons and stuff to show different options (selected from an easy to use gui) and change things like fanspeed and volume and what else for nicer custom towers builds... prised at around 35$
So the prises are cheap but that is what we all want right? perfectly good hardware att the lowest possible prise. :-D
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I haven't read all the entries here yet but ..
I the biggest one thing that would spark new
interest in the Classics would be the 'Cold Fusion'
(or something simular) accellerator.
Perhaps some arangment could be
reached with Oli that would speed up the
developement and bring it to market.
I'm not sure PPC is needed for the Classics,
that would require new software, whats the point??
There are a number of items that would sell,
keyboards, optical mice, GFX cards, ect.
The key here is to bring the Amiga up to speed.
A 220mhz (or more) Clasic 68k machine could
probably be compared to about a 1.5gig mhz PC.
Its all about the 'Need for Speed' :-D
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An inexpensive (<$125) combination Zorro / PCI busboard for A1200 towers would be awesome. If it gets more expensive than a PC motherboard, then there's not much of a return on investment for the hobbyist user.
I'd also like to see a new A1200 tower design. Something prettier than a Power Tower, sturdier than a Micronik, and much, much, much smaller than a Mirage. The A1200 motherboard is a bit on the long side, but it should be possible. Hmmm. Something along the lines of a Power Mac G5 chassis would be cool.
A nice rackmount chassis for the A1200 would be cool as well--but this would be a pretty small market. And I guess it really wouldn't be too hard to modify an ATX chassis; however, ATX boxes are usually pretty deep, and it would be cool to have something that fits nicely in a 19" wide by 17" deep A/V rack.
Trev
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Takemehomegrandma:
Unfortunately Xilinx Virtex chips costs a way more than existing GFX chips do.. So making Gfx using Virtex woudl be not only technically a lot to ask, but also economical suiside..
I don't know, IF it would be possible to use on of those as a replacement to whole machine.. afterall.. it has more CPU power than any Classix Turbo... :-D
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downix wrote:
Forget about advanced 3D, there is no way (and no reason) to compete with the 3D chips developers.
Au Contraire.
3D chip vendors have stopped innovating, and the quality of products is starting to show. My now 4-year old Kyro II renders scenes that look better than my brand-new Radeon.
The 3D chip developers are aiming primarly for the gaming industry now, and they are in die hard competition. It's a space race (and their budgets are closing in to the budgets used by the former Soviet Union and USA in that race ;-)).
Surely they (both, there are only two now) have a roadmap for a couple of years ahead. But innovation is not only about technology. You have to make it profitable too, to sustain in the cut throat competition and secure future funds for development. It's a race. Business innovation has been the key here for a while IMO.
You can also license a core, such as the PowerVR or 3DLabs to include in such a chipset. So you get a brand-new chipset while not the R&D effort needed to develop a 3D.
So the best of both worlds.
That would be the way to go! :-)
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I do not know if it would be possible oraffordable, but a new mobo would be nice. Something with an 060 and 4 or 5 PCI slots. I would think that this would eliminate a lot of the bottlenecks that you get with a1200 - 060 accelerator combos.
My price point would be approx. $300USD. For that price I would like to see a mobo with an 060, four PCI slots, three DIMM slots, and basic connectors (serial, parallel, IDE). I do not know if it would be necessaru to have all the classic vid & sound chips, perhaps a custom boot disk would allow you to go straight to a vid card.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
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JoannaK wrote:
Takemehomegrandma:
Unfortunately Xilinx Virtex chips costs a way more than existing GFX chips do.. So making Gfx using Virtex woudl be not only technically a lot to ask, but also economical suiside..
I figured that. I know that you have looked into it (and I haven't). :-)
I have no idea how these things works, but shouldn't it be possible to use these FPGA's as a small scale prototype, and then move ahead and go to a real "silicon producer" in the far east and place an order? Yes/No? AFAIK, even this IBM PPC core is available for licence for custom projects (like in the case of this Xilinx product). That would of course require a large scale production run (which in turn might require a lot of different products based on this component, and/or external partners/OEM customers), and budget far beyond a "garage company", but even a garage company can secure some VC funds if they manage to present their ideas in the right way to the right people. After all, both Microsoft and Apple started out this way (more or less in a garage)!
I don't know, IF it would be possible to use on of those as a replacement to whole machine.. afterall.. it has more CPU power than any Classix Turbo... :-D
That's a cool idea! :-)
The CPU part won't be *that* powerful, but what are custom chips for? ;-)
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Turambar wrote:
How about an RTG amiga (like draco) on a mini-itx or smaller board with on board graphics and sound.
techiebk wrote:
I do not know if it would be possible oraffordable, but a new mobo would be nice. Something with an 060 and 4 or 5 PCI slots. I would think that this would eliminate a lot of the bottlenecks that you get with a1200 - 060 accelerator combos.
My price point would be approx. $300USD. For that price I would like to see a mobo with an 060, four PCI slots, three DIMM slots, and basic connectors (serial, parallel, IDE). I do not know if it would be necessaru to have all the classic vid & sound chips, perhaps a custom boot disk would allow you to go straight to a vid card.
Aren't you guys really thinking slightly in terms of a Pegasos with a 68060 instead of a PPC? So a 060 card for the pegasos would be the product you want? That would of course limit you to the old Amiga3.x OS's forever (with heavy patches), it's performance would be inferiour, and you would not be able to use the improved MorphOS/OS4 ...
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Well, there have been a number of things mentioned, but the one's that stand out to me are:
- 1 - A cheaper PPC solution for my A3000 desktop
- 2 - A PCI expansion for the A3000 desktop that doesn't require a $300 custom tower (that is way oversized anyway)
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
downix wrote:
Forget about advanced 3D, there is no way (and no reason) to compete with the 3D chips developers.
Au Contraire.
3D chip vendors have stopped innovating, and the quality of products is starting to show. My now 4-year old Kyro II renders scenes that look better than my brand-new Radeon.
The 3D chip developers are aiming primarly for the gaming industry now, and they are in die hard competition. It's a space race (and their budgets are closing in to the budgets used by the former Soviet Union and USA in that race ;-)).
Surely they (both, there are only two now) have a roadmap for a couple of years ahead. But innovation is not only about technology. You have to make it profitable too, to sustain in the cut throat competition and secure future funds for development. It's a race. Business innovation has been the key here for a while IMO.
An addition: It's not only about 3D hardware, it's also about software. Today, Microsoft is a key here. They are setting the standards, and actually, the functionality of the current top of the line gaming hardware is ahead of the software support. The software side needs to catch up. In the mean time, the chipset manufacturers focus their efforts of gaining high scores in various performance benchmark tests. That's what it's all about for now (until the software actually starts using the new functions in the hardware), big numbers from tests for marketing purposes.
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A zorro2/3 board that did 100baseT with an RJ45 connector combined with DDR memory slots (1 gig memory, anyone?) would be a killer card, and if you could combine it with an IDE or serial ATA controller, that would be even better.
Someone's idea of a replacement motherboard, where you could take your custom chips off your A2000/3000/500/(1000?)and mount them on the new motherboard would be cool. The new motherboard could have USB, Firewire, sound, ethernet, PS/2 ports, serial, parallel, modem as per PC boards, but have a processor connector that could use 040/060/PPC etc. processor daughterboards. A 2000 case has room for lots of slots; could be some zorro3, some PCI and an AGP slot. Yowza! :ranting:
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Ahem..
Maybe a MC68k based PCI CPU Card?? For pissee..
:-D :-D
Ok, I don't know what would I do with such card (think, that Amithlon or UAE is cheaper, and you don't need to rewrite the OS or special drivers)..
8-)
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@trev
My company is swamped with bussiness right now which is holding back the web site developement. Can't seem to hire anyone competent to do it. But we do have some twenty diferent Tower cases for the A1200. Very nice tower cases not cheap.
look here for new developements the Cases and pictures should be going online in the next few day's "www.revanchellc.com"
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Seems to be different types of Amiga user wants here.
Those who want the ability to towerize an amiga with all the trimmings. Most who want this have already done so. Those who have/haven't just want it cheaper.
Those who want to keep it in the original case A1200 etc. or in another case, but not a tower setup. Not as much developed for this yet, because 1 cpu and 1 clock port not enough for Vid, Snd and other expansions.
Those who want a new mobo for a tower unit.
Those who want a new mobo more compact.
Then the obvious CPU - 060, coldfire or PPC ?
This thread started about classic Amiga stuff.
If you want a system to play all the modern games on then buy a modern machine. Those who want OS 4 and/or G3/G4 etc already have choices - ie. AmigaOne, MicroA1, Pegasos, Shark and Blizzard PPC etc.
The weakest availability for upgrades is those who don't want to towerize. Example - no way to upgrade video, audio, usb, ide and enet at the same time.
A1200 060 cpu with a video upgrade ability and a couple of extra clock ports or something might be a start !
I have read the ColdFusion plans for the A1200 but it does not include any kind of video upgrade ability so going to a tower is the only option. Unless one is developed of course !
To me, a new mobo with Coldfire? would be the thing. My Amigas are starting to die off little at a time. Good thing I got a NOS A1200 a year back as a back-up.
A lot to think about. :-o
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takemehometograndma: An addition: It's not only about 3D hardware, it's also about software.
Indeed. Game consoles are sold with hype, but untimately, it's about the games, not the true power of the hardware.
But please, there are limits. Putting a PSOne next to a GameCube is a no-brainer. :-)
OT: Does anybody know about S3's new GFX chip for notebooks? Does it look hopeful? My last S3 card was the ill-fated VergeDX, so it would be interesting to see them come back after so many years.
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Wolfe wrote:
Seems to be different types of Amiga user wants here.
Yes i think a poll and lots of options would be a good idea, and you can add another option if its not too vague
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Redrumloa rallied:
And now YOU. What would YOU like to see?
:-? How about a replacement daughter board for the desktop A4000 that puts the video slot at the top, instead of the bottom? This way, the toaster card would block only one Zorro slot instead of two.
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Coldfire add-on board for the Amiga 1200. Must have at least 10/100 Ethernet. :-D
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The one thing I'd like to see is an A500 on a PCI card. With modern FPGA technology, the OCS or ECS chipset should not be "too" hard to do, and I bet you'll have loads of emulation fans beating a path to your door. With the right drivers, you should be able to plug that bad boy into anything from a Mac to a Sun workstation, including Peecees and Mediator-equipped A1200s. Now there's a twisted idea :-)
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A working ColdFire turbo that can take SDRAM (PC133). At a decent price.
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A lot of good suggestions in here. TBH a new Amiga motherboard is highly unlikely, at least for now. We're going to start a little smaller,.
Keep the ideas coming, there is some good stuff out there. I guarantee we are reading them all and taking it all in:-)
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carls wrote:
A working ColdFire turbo that can take SDRAM (PC133). At a decent price.
Given the current possibilities available to make small boards, it would be nice to help the ColdFusion Accelerator Project people to make ColdFire accelerators for current Amiga models, but including also onboard graphics and IDE interface, not only sound, USB, etc. This would be a REAL all-in-one upgrade!! :-o :-o
Saluditos,
Ferrán.
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Hi Redrumloa:
if you REALLY have access and the option to do hardware, youmight start out with an already designed turbocard for the A500(+) / A1000 / A2000. You could sell them CPU-less, for a better price.
The German c't magazine has, in 1994, published the layout and all necessary things and documentation for a PAK, a ProZessor-Austausch-Karte, meaning "CPU-exchange-card". It offered up to an 68030@50, plus 68k-fallback mode and a kickstart-rom.
You can find some info here:
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?product=PAK&company=
Even more interestingly, it offered the option of adding a small RAM-daughterboard for using SIMMs up to 64MB.
Considering how much accelerators bring on eBay these days (easily 125+ Euro), you might make a start there.
Tell me if youd like to contact the team of the c't, I can find you some email-addys.
McTrinsic
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Most users would like to see an up to date ppc card with agp 2+ for 1200/3000/4000 at a reasonable price? dont you agree? And a cheaper pci option to give the mediator some competition, thats one of the things lacking in the Amiga hardware world, competition....
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@takemehomegrandma
takemehomegrandma wrote:
Aren't you guys really thinking slightly in terms of a Pegasos with a 68060 instead of a PPC? So a 060 card for the pegasos would be the product you want? That would of course limit you to the old Amiga3.x OS's forever (with heavy patches), it's performance would be inferiour, and you would not be able to use the improved MorphOS/OS4 ...
Yeah, I guess that is what I am asking for :huh:
As far as not being able to use OS4, that is not really for me. If I want to use a modern OS, I have a Mac and a PC that I can use. For me, it is about being able to have an affordable retro system. I know a lot of miggy HW is available on the cheap, but it is getting old, and Zorro cards for this hardware have never been cheap. A new clasic mobo would be less likely to die because of age related problems, and I would be able to take advantage of cheap PCI cards, assuming of course driver support is there.
Lastly, I have been eyeing a Pegasos II mobo off and on since it was released. I probably would have spent my christmas bonus on one, but I am finding out just how expensive a fianace(sp?) can be :-o
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Hi red,
i would like a G4 CPU card (ie SharkPPC), with a NLE program (ie MovieShop5.x or Producer2.x) native for those card MORE a driver for a Matrox RT2500 or better for a DPS Velocity (YUV in-out).
Serious RT-NLE on Amiga AGAIN :-) my dream from a life :-)
Ciao
PS- obviously it is OK all the above, even on an AOne or Pegasos.
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I'd like to see a ppc accelerator... it may be plugged to your PCI solution...
The idea of adding a MegArray sounds great but I would use a MegArray compatible with Mac.
The idea of a buster replacement board sounds even better...
A Z3 memory board with support for lots of ram (and a fast IDE and a flash to add some value
In conclusion: I want a ppc accelerator for my 4000T that uses DIMMs (if it includes ultra-DMA it would be enough for me...) if it adds pcis and agps would be wellcome even a pci with a riser would bve enough...
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@McTrinsic
Dunno nothing bout this newer PAK (how could I have missed that ?) but the
orginal PAK (as detailed under your URL), is the weakest of the weak in
030-turbos, that makes an A2630 look like an sweet offer, hell one might be
tempted to get an A2620 instead of that ...
If an 68k (non-CF) accel is decided, I would advice trying to licence the design
of a more modern card, like the one from Phase/DCE or even the Apollo-stuff.
Hey, a Blizz2060 with a 1 PCI-slot would be a real nice treat :-D
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@Crumb
There is a reason why noone produces PPC-boards compatible with Apple-CPU-module
(no, the A1 can take these just as much as my Peg could take a Slot1-Pentium or SlotA-
Athlon).
Some patented trickery needed :-o
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I would also like to see a PPC solution for a good price. I have a CSPPC, but if you could do the PCI bus at a good price, then get one of the PCI G4 boards that are out now at a nice price working you have solved botht the problems. Here is my top list of classic hardware I'd like to see.
1. G4 PCI card working with OS4
2. PCI solution as good if not better the Mediator with open driver support (I have a mediator, but they close the system and no new drivers seem to be getting done)
3. Cheap P96/CGX4+ video cards
4. Cheap USB cards/ (the overpriced E3B stuff is a joke, as is Elbox rebadged $10 2.0 card sold for $50+)
5. Audio cards for a good price, say nothing over $75
6. MOST OF ALL!! KEYBOARD AND MOUSE ADAPTERS! We need new keyboards and a good mouse for Amiga in the form of a PC adapter or even new native ones!!
That should be a great start!
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New Classick amiga MOBO, without custom thinks.
RTG and AHI only supported like draco.
WHY:
1 I don't want to spend any many my current amiga, can't be sure when it stops to work
2 Speed problems of Zorro II & III, event those PCI expansions doesn't work as they could.
And maybe there could be some solutions to like emulating sound chip, some programs work with RTG but not with ahi.
I'm quite sure If someone could make it there would be many solutions to problems produced by hobby, I mean not by manufacturer
PS. I write this on my amiga
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Oh, and while we are at it (it = dreaming)...
I would LOVE a sexy case. Especially a mix of the CDTV (black! LCDs!) and the A1000 (keyboard garage!)....
McTrinsic
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And another thing, to start with something "simple":
http://www.katodev.de/deutsch/melodycdtv.html
(page in German only, have a look at the downloadable http://www.katodev.de/down/cdtvclock.ps layout).
A clockport for Amiga A500(+), A1000, A2000 and CDTV!!
Id buy one - you could connect LOTS of stuff; imagine USB!
McTrinsic
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Re Mouse and keyboard adapters.
I have been making Mouse and keyboard adapters for years and selling them to amiga dealers.
I am now making them available for sale from my new company web site
revanche LLC Keyboard Adapter (http://revanchellc.com/cgi-bin/mivavm?Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=REV&Product_Code=RAKA&Category_Code=ACHD)
Revanche LLC Mouse adapters (http://revanchellc.com/cgi-bin/mivavm?Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=REV&Product_Code=RAMA&Category_Code=ACHD)
Both the mouse and Keyboard adapters work with KVM's and are hot swapable. This keyboard adapter works with 100% of all Windows Keyboards. I originally designed this keyboard adapter in 1994 and have upgraded the software over the years incorperating users suggestions. The mouse adapter came about becuase of desperation I brought every Amiga Mouse adapter available and none worked with my KVM or even worked good by itself.
Yea I know shameless plugs for my stuff. But I really make very little on Amiga items. Actually I lose money on Amiga items cause the time could be spent on more profitable endevors. I do it mainly out of frustration with alot of the dealers out there that sell @#$ that barely work if at all. Most of the Amiga stuff I make is normally cause I need or want it for my self. Plus I am a bit of an Amiga Fanatic
I appologize for the state of the web site. we are working on getting stuff on it. check it out in the coming day's and weeks I have thousands of items to put on it. Dealers inquiries welcome
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Ok first throw out the A1 and Pegasos.
OK I'll ignore the fact that my Pegasos has basically replaced my A 4000 T for this one... :-)
-Good Zorro II/III NIC
-New Amiga compatable keyboards that use the traditional 94 key layout
-New mouses - Optical with scroll wheel, that plug into the 9-pin mouse port
-Zorro III Graphics card
-(Yes, it's software, however...)A new kickstart ROM capable of displaying the early startup menu on the GFX card, and with an option to completely disable the Amiga custom graphics chips
:-) That would be hardware that might be worth buying :)
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Well, IMHO, it's both ingenious and crazed. But, if you take the idea one step further, I say it was already attempted. The best project of post 2000 Amiga community, and it was killed by greed and politics.
Here's the thing... You've essentially got a low-powered computer (Original Amiga) acting as a front end for a slave high-powered processing machine (the PC) The interface would probably cause a bit of a bottleneck. Plus, essentially, you'd just be using the classic Amiga as a front-end.
You've already got a high powered PC sitting there. Why don't you just virtualize the Amiga front end on it? It wouldn't cause much of a performance hit. Then you can run with totally off-the-shelf hardware.
I present you with Amithlon. Our dreams crushed.
Didn't Amithlon die due to licencing problems? I thought it was the Amiga emulation itself that killed Amithlon. If that is true, making a bus to bus adaptor and a couple of drivers dodges the entire IP problem. There are no patents to be in dispute.
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In the last interview with Dave Haynie he mentioned the guy that still has the design for the AmiJoe. Maybe he/you coluld finish it (with improvements to the bus speed maybe). That could be a good start for a more uptodate PPC for the A1200. That's what I'd want too! And like someone said, a Megarray connector in it would be very cold for upgrading options.
I seem to remember that the major obstacle of Metabox (or was it Escena?) to releasing the AmiJoe was the Northbridge, or something like that. But nowdays there are northbridges available ...
Maybe different models, some like the CyberstormPPC wich is a computer in itself, but with a processor slot and bus for upgrading, the A1200 motherboard would be there for the legacy stuff. Other models with just a simple PPC in a socked or megarray connector. Other chepers ones with the processor soldered. I guess the best to do is the do a market study to see what people would buy.
OTHER THINGS:
- Mike Tinker had an AGA replecement chipset in the works wich would be used in CURRENT AGA Amiga models. Could he finish it? I think the thing included Firewire, and AGA true color modes, while stll being compatible with AGA (I guess there's not much point with RTG anyway.)
- Some sort of chip or whatever that would allow draggable screens with RTG and more modern PCI gfx cards. I think that would have a market but don't know if it's possible at all
- To make the AKIKO chip available to the A1200. There was even a prototype with that in a CD ROM addon by commodore. Check it out HERE (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/cd1200.html) and HERE (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/cd1200_2.jpg)
- Well, an internal A1200 PCI expansion for the desktop if one took of the drive. That would be crazy.
- A mini DVDR/W writter for the A1200 instead of the floppy. There were actually CD roms that had a slot and you put the CD in it. Maybe there are mini DVDR/Ws that have the same mechanism.
- A flicker fixer /scan doubler that works at 100hz, and that works in all AGA modes
- All of the above at the same time!! :-D 8-)
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In the last interview with Dave Haynie he mentioned the guy that still has the design for the AmiJoe.
Now i wonder who could have possibly asked THAT question? ;-)
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"Now i wonder who could have possibly asked THAT question? ;-) "
Cool!! It'd buy that right a way :-o Don't give up!!
If you need us to make some sort of compromise for some company to consider it, as long as there's no risk I think most of us wouldn't mind trusting you, since we know you from this site for a long time.
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I would like to see companies entering this market not try stuff that's already been done before, and not wasting their time and money on "100 made" projects.
As for takemehomegrandma: the A1 and Pegasos *do* stand out! Name me another commercial PowerPC motherboard that is as reasonably priced as the Pegasos, and I will retract that.
Sure, so it allows you to buy an AGP card from Best Buy, hard disks from CompUSA, and memory from any PC supplier you like, and you're saying this kind of generic solution is *BAD*?
Amigans hankering for entirely custom solutions just want them for bragging rights. 64bit processor? To brag about. Totally new graphics card? To tell all your mates that it's better than their "Micro$oft Winblows PeeCee of Crap". I personally think that's sickening behaviour.
You can buy a Pegasos the same way as you buy a PC and get work done - who gives a crap if it's using the same parts, what you have is a machine that gets work done in the way you want it to.
Prerequisites are that you would really have to like MorphOS or Linux or OpenBSD to get that work done, but is THAT a bad solution? It gives people (and companies and governments..) a very good excuse to stop using Windows if they simply CANNOT use Windows :)
Let's not think about products that the people want, but products that mean more than running around shouting about how you have a *more* unique solution than everyone else. Like that counted for anything :)
=Neko=
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Besides all the obvious addons I'd like to see for my A4k like PPC card, PCI bridge and such there is one thing I'd love to have:
A Zorro II add-on for the A500, with pass-through, so I can put my old A500 to some good use. One slot is enough, two is preferred. Want to be able to add at least a nic and a gfx-card to it.
The pass-through is important for the harddrive-controller.
That way I could have my 500 run as a webserver or something like that.
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At the moment, my Amiga hardware needs are really quite modest ...
For my Amiga 2000HD ...
- a hassle-free 68K accelerator card,
- an ethernet interface,
- an internal 880K floppy disk drive to replace my flaky one.
This should suffice until AmigaOS4 is ready for the AmigaOne. ;-)
---------------
redfox
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IMO the only way to squeak out a profit in this market is to really have your ear to the ground, so to speak, to see what people actually want.
Be careful, very few customers really know what they want :-)
And those that do dont want it at your price :-)
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As for takemehomegrandma: the A1 and Pegasos *do* stand out! Name me another commercial PowerPC motherboard that is as reasonably priced as the Pegasos, and I will retract that.
I didn't say they didn't! I am a Pegasos owner and think it is a fine piece of hardware , however at the moment we are not a reseller for either it nor the Teron/A1.
There will always be people using classic Amigas IMO. Reasonably priced NEW hardware could sell, even if only in very small quantities.
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Jose wrote:
Cool!! It'd buy that right a way :-o Don't give up!!
If you need us to make some sort of compromise for some company to consider it, as long as there's no risk I think most of us wouldn't mind trusting you, since we know you from this site for a long time.
:-)
Don't get any false hope from my coment. There are no plans for a PPC board at the moment beyond a discussion. It would be foolish for me to suggest otherwise. If we ever do decide to persue such a product I guarantee we will announce it:-)
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I'd love to see a Coldfire based accelerator card become available, or failing that I liked the idea of an x86 running 68040 emulation.
I'd also like to see a better and more elegant solution for integrating native Amiga graphics modes and RTG. I'm fed up with swapping cables and having to make room for two monitors on my desk.
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PMC wrote:
I'd love to see a Coldfire based accelerator card become available, or failing that I liked the idea of an x86 running 68040 emulation.
I'd also like to see a better and more elegant solution for integrating native Amiga graphics modes and RTG. I'm fed up with swapping cables and having to make room for two monitors on my desk.
If you are concidering an Acelerator for the classic line... I would urge you to be thinking Cheap x86 board (1.8Ghz Durons are something like $30 now!) with DDR ram. Then you could have a 68k emulator on a small flash rom.
One could run a x86 version of AROS on this board with an integrated 68k emu and it would then offer the same type of system as OS4 and MOS.
If you are thinking about Gfx/sound cards, then choosing a cheap VGA chip and AC97 chip and an AGA Emulation FPGA and then building an VGA/AGA hybrid card would be nice :-)
One where The FPGA emualtes the AGA functions and promotes them to the VGA chip (and the 16bit Audio chip), while allowing the Native features of the modern Gfx and audio as well. :-)
But at the end of the day, I think my Keyboard idea is still the best...
(Imagine one of these with a USB connector plugged into your PC/A1/PEG :-D ) (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/kpre94yc_1_sm.jpg)
How about also selling A4KT boxes (ATX compatible), and I mean propper Commdore ones (NOT the tacky Escom A4KT ones).
(http://www.amiga-hardware.com/c4k2.gif)
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Vaguely feasible thoughts:
-PCMCIA USB for the AGA models?
(I'm one of those who thinks USB hits the sweet spot for expanding anything you *can't*/*don't want to* slap a PPC on, and is 'important' in terms of giving the old machines a new lease on life... but the market is indeed pretty saturated right now. Anyone doing US importing of the Thylacine, I've lost track?)
-Everyone seems to like Coldfire. If you go through the trouble and expense... go through the trouble and expense of giving the same PCB some standalone capacity. Given physical limitations, I'm not sure if it'd be a good idea to try to wedge PCI onto such a beast, but something that can 'Flipper' into a backplane would be worth shooting for, or if not that, just something with the usual onboard CF/USB/Ethernet interfaces useful for the embedded Linux/BSD/maybe_even_AROS games.
-Not exactly hardware, and I've already pitched this to Fleecy and others, but an affordable hardware/software 'kit' to turn an old 'miggy into a networkable VNC client might be a good idea with the launch of 4 and the Pegasos line. Of course, this depends on having some VNC server action for the PowerPC "big boxes," but it'll keep people's classics out of landfill, and probably be reasonably popular.
There are probably some innovative (USB?) peripherals that could be used along with the above, depending how many cycles you can squeeze out of a 68000 or 020 already trying to handle IP and VNC... Along the lines of Griffin Tech's Mac lineup, but with more an eye to the 'networked home' business we were supposed to be shooting towards.
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I want the A4kt and keyboard that Bloodline has asked for. PPC would also be great as well as PCI stuff. Maybe even some of the custom chips. I will also try to think of some more.
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Oh, and I forgot. POWER SUPPLIES :-)
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Amiga keyboard +Mice is something we need badly , it should support ps/2 and USB aswell as Classic connectors and a slot in for the a1200 /a600 connector etc (so u wont need a keyboard adapter (which sometimes is a PAIN! when it comes to multi useage of keys (ie like CTRL+ALT+F10) .
and ofcourse a PPC board that has faster mem and with proper "SILENT" cooling.
make this and i will buy it even if it wont run out of the box with all software.
cheers
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Bodie_CI5 wrote:
Oh, and I forgot. POWER SUPPLIES :-)
????? Was that just a joke ?????
@Bloodline:
Some nice ideas there, is it that simple to get a 68k emulator running off a ROM like that? That hybrid Gfx Card sounds interesting!
Personally:
I'd definately buy a ZII/III NIC. A decent, cheap, AGA-compatiblte SD/FF would be great. And is a cheapo Gfx card in a realms of posibility? For a classic amiga the cheapest gfx chips available would be all you'd need.
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Some nice ideas there, is it that simple to get a 68k emulator running off a ROM like that? That hybrid Gfx Card sounds interesting!
For the x86 CPU expansion there would be no more problems than a PPC CPU expansion but it would be a lot cheaper (from a design and component point of view). And There is a GPL 68K JIT for the x86 already used in UAE :-D
As for the AGA/VGA hybrid card.. that could be more of a problem, since the AGA Chipset is very fussy about timing... But since the AGA modes would simply be promoted to a VGA (Trucolour) screen and the Sprites/HAM/blitter/copper effects could all be emulated and also promoted to the VGA screen too. The VGA chips registers would be available to the host system too, so that the software could use it as both an RTG card and Native chipset.
The Same applies to some onboard Audio solution.
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You know those guitars, that are like, double guitars, you know?
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i think
High Density drive, coldfusion + ppc accelerator, and finaly a new classic amiga with modern grafics en a fast cpu ina small box (A1200 style)
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I would also kill for an 880k/1.76Mb floppy drive for my A3000! It is a shame they are so scarce! :-(
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PMC wrote:
. . . . .
I'd also like to see a better and more elegant solution for integrating native Amiga graphics modes and RTG. I'm fed up with swapping cables and having to make room for two monitors on my desk.
But a Scan Doubler that "Passes through" standard ChipSet Gfx to the Gfx Card already does that!
Later cards had that bit included, as a Snap-Off if the Video Slot was not inline with a Zorro Slot!
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Oh - and before I forget:
I was discussing Jeri's C-One reconfigurable computer on a list when someone suggested an A1-configuration of the C-One?!?
My thought were more that classic-Amiga/C1 configuration may be more feasable?
Perhaps Mick Tinker's replacement chipset (or that other used in that 5.25 Bay Amiga media device) added to the C-One reconfigurable computer to produce a modern classic Amiga clone? :-?
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@vortexau
The C1-HW is not even comparable to an A500 when it comes to speed.
Apart fromthe fact that i doubt it would be able to work with a PPC-CPU-modul.
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Well, the C1 would have to have a new processor card built for it to emulate any Amiga, but the Bus is IIRC much faster than any classic Amiga.
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I'm not talking bout the bus, but the programmable chips used to emulate
the chipset. That ones just lacks the grunt to truely emulate OCS, let alone
AA.
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I fully agree with Bloodline on the Celeron Card. At 2.4, the costs are nominal and even economically viable in bulk, once the board is designed. I'm sure that trimmed down UAE that could hit the hardware instead of through emulation could be seated in some sort of Flash Rom.
Just think...a little A500 with a 2.4ghz celeron cpu card with a Big Foot Power Supply. Talk about a speed demon. Heh. Still, I'd search for an old 3000 or something, if you could build a card for it.
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My 2 cents worth.....
Here is a list of items I need to make my trusty 2000/3000 and 4000 productive again. Number one being the most important, and down to the least.
1. Affordable network cards. I can't buy 10 meg cards at 100+us$ per card for 3-4 machines. I need a reasonable 100meg card for some thing less than $50us
2. New Accelerator Cards. PPC is fine but maybe that new coldfire project would be an economical choice too. I don't see the need to put in an intel in a classic to run UAE. I can do that on any pc clone. Maybe a coldfire version of OS4 could be released.
3. New keyboards to replace the crummy original commodore ones, again that don't cost a fortune.
4. Graphics upgrade. An ATI card on Zorro III or an IDE expansion bus would be nice.
5. Sound. My old AD516 cards are still great, but I could stand an update to the DAC features for recording and special effects.
In honesty, I don't think you can make much on any of these projects. With A1 and pegasos boards becoming more available, you would have to come in with a really decent price for me to concider diverting funds from and A1 to my classics. But if you could, I would definitly buy at the right price.
Good luck!
Plaz
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@L8Knight
I've actually had a design for one sitting on the shelf for years. (video card)
Hey Red, think there'd be enough of a market for this?
I'd love new video for my 3000 and 2000. Make it cheap and they will come :-)
Plaz
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@DaNi
motorola Coldfire... is 68k familiar and currently the speed is 220Mhz and 333Mhz (610 mips) and up to 800Mhz (1400 mips!!!!) with superscalar EMAC MMU Coldfires planned
I agree coldfire needs more attention for the classics. And up to 800mhz?! cool. Hyperion/AI could compile a version of OS4 to match I'm sure.
Plaz
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@takemehomegrandma
Aren't you guys really thinking slightly in terms of a Pegasos with a 68060 instead of a PPC? So a 060 card for the pegasos would be the product you want? That would of course limit you to the old Amiga3.x OS's forever
I'm thinking of a 300+mhz coldfire with it's own version of OS4 actually. :-) More classic owners should take a look at the Amiga Cold Fire Project page. (http://www.cdtv.org.uk/coldfire/)
Plaz
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Hi,
Actually I would love to reduce the desktop footprint of my B2000 to ZERO.
Nobody makes a tower kit anymore and desk-space is at a premium here. How
about something with, 2= 3.5" floppy bays, 3= 5.25 drive bays And a nice
new beef power supply.
Also it seems to me that most accel cards have some kind of expansion
connector, could this be utilised for a higher speed plug-in buss?
My slots are all used. Just me thinking again.
Chris
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I would like to have a nice tower case for my Amiga 2500 mother board. The tower case should be the same quality as the A2500's desktop case. ;-)
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Fly wrote:
I would like to have a nice tower case for my Amiga 2500 mother board. The tower case should be the same quality as the A2500's desktop case. ;-)
You mean it should weigh a ton, be a complete pain for service and should offer
a limited number of drive-bays in odd sizes and colors ?
:-P
Really, get an old full-height tower with AT-PSU, do some metal-work and you'll
be done with it. Building these in a company would force Red to obeys to lots of
rules, and posting would cost a fortune.
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Hi,
Ok, how about a multi classic case. Fit an A500, A600, or an A2000++
in a tower with room for goodies and a new beefy power supply.
Chris
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Well I want a new MOTHERBOARD. One taht has a bus that can handle higher speeds for LVD SCSI, and raid options, Giganet, wireless and faster ram etc. My 4k is just too slow and I want it updated! PCI and new graphics! 5.1 Channel sound DVD playback.
Oh, hang on, that's A1 isn't it. Silly me. Why would I want to go backwards anyway! lol ;) Hope it's OS is as good if not better than my OS3.9 :))
Serious answer?
Some REAL world apps to run native on fast hardware, like Word/Excel (I know, I know. eek, but I use them daily.)
Mozila would be nice too. Some networking tools and software. Server based ability so I can set it up like winblowz server. I dislike running server fomr M$ in my house. And I registered it! I would have rather spent that 1400 on AMIGA. :(( Bring it on!
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I've never seen a company make the leap from auction company to engineering firm, but good luck with that.
in the day, a video card for the A1200 would have interested me. The AteoBUS was too expensive and did too much. They just needed nothing but a video card for the A1200.
But nowadays, there is no product at all that would ever lure me back to the 'classic' line. Dead is dead. Slow is slow. Even a coldfire is slow.
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Martyn wrote:
Bodie_CI5 wrote:
Oh, and I forgot. POWER SUPPLIES :-)
????? Was that just a joke ?????
I thought A2000 PSU's were different to all standard PC types. And besides, I'm not qualified, or have the knowldge of how to hack a PC PSU.
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Hi,
I'm with Bodie_C15 on that one. I do work for a living, and hacking a PC power supply
is not my idea of fun. If I had the time I would build A bullet- proof one from scratch.
That timing thing would be a bugger. More dependable Power Mr. Scott.
Chris
PS: Maybe I should take my own advice and change all the capacitors in mine before it's
too late
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restore2003 wrote:
I would like to see a new ppc g4 card supporting 1ghz or more for 1200 or 4000 with a slot for a geforce4 card or similar :-)
Not too expensive ofcourse ;-)
mwuhahahaahaha.......er............erm.............oh this guy is serious.
Say, while you are working out how to fit a G4 ( with cooling ) and Geforce4 ( with cooling ) into an amiga 1200 can you also work out how to fit an enitire Windows system into a small module that plugs into the clock port so I can run Windows XP in a window on my Amiga Workbench? :-P~
on a serioius note, a wireless nic for the amiga would be nice.
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Say, while you are working out how to fit a G4 ( with cooling ) and Geforce4 ( with cooling ) into an amiga 1200 can you also work out how to fit an enitire Windows system into a small module that plugs into the clock port so I can run Windows XP in a window on my Amiga Workbench? ~
Towerize, and give it a Zorro board, compat with the 2000s, and you can run Win95, heck maybe even 98 on those 486 bridgeboards.
ahem back to dreamworld... dammy I wish that Blizzard 2604 had come out...
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I've never seen a company make the leap from auction company to engineering firm, but good luck with that.
Yup