Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: amigasociety on February 05, 2012, 08:00:11 PM
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Curious about gaming on the Amiga platform.
Now that the AmigaOne X1000 is shipping, and Amiga OS is up to 4.1u5, I wonder if this newer more powerful NG Amiga would make a killer gaming platform also.
My guess the AmigaOne X1000 was designed for more professional use but now that it is the most powerful system to run Amiga OS 4.x, will it attract any from the outside work on the gaming capability of the Amiga platform.
Is gaming relying on strictly high GHz power to propel the 3D nature of gaming or does the respondent OS have anything to do with gaming?
Obviously most games 3D games these days are running on Windows based platform with gaming computers, high overclocked CPUs, water cooling, and all that.
But, is it that they need all this speed because of the bogged down Windows it runs on?
Can a speedy X1000 running Amiga OS make some killer gaming because of how fast the Amiga OS is?
Or again is it all about power power power?
tj
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My guess the AmigaOne X1000 was designed for more professional use
Really? Doing what exactly?
Is gaming relying on strictly high GHz power to propel the 3D nature of gaming or does the respondent OS have anything to do with gaming?
The OS has to provide the necessary services for the games to utilize. Today that's DirectX 11.
Obviously most games 3D games these days are running on Windows based platform with gaming computers, high overclocked CPUs, water cooling, and all that.
But, is it that they need all this speed because of the bogged down Windows it runs on?
Can a speedy X1000 running Amiga OS make some killer gaming because of how fast the Amiga OS is?
Are you serious?
It's about market size. No-one is going to bother with commercial games if the potential sales are counted in hundreds.
So you can forget any kind of commercial games.
Also, I'd say it doesn't help that the actual 3D drivers are nowhere to be seen.
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Sure, just install the driver.
Oh wait....
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Now now chaps the guy is just excited about his new toy, but your perfectly correct in what you say. The x1000 could turn out to be the most expensive ornament in his house
we will just have to wait and see...............
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Now now chaps the guy is just excited about his new toy, but your perfectly correct in what you say. The x1000 could turn out to be the most expensive ornament in his house
we will just have to wait and see...............
Now I understand the business plan behind the X1000. It's a computer for women. They like to decorate the house with expensive useless things. What a brillinat strategy that is. Impressing!
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My question was genuine.
I am not a gamer, don't really follow it in the gaming world, and wondered if a modern day Amiga has good gaming capability.
If I am not mistaken, some popular gaming platforms are PPC based with CPUs that are not super pumped up with all the water cooling, overclocked cpus, etc...
And obviously these major gaming platforms are still in business and making fun games for all.
So I was curious what stands behind the game and it capability.... is it all about power power power only or does the OS have something to do with it, or all about drivers for the GPUs and that is where gaming is now.
So, right now, same question for MorphOS since I am also planning on buying and supporting this platform, mostly for fun and to help support the folks that work hard on it.
Does the MorphOS platform, version 2.7 or the newer 3.0 coming out, running on say Mac Minis, make a favorable and fun platform to support gaming developers?
TJ
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My question was genuine.
I am not a gamer, don't really follow it in the gaming world, and wondered if a modern day Amiga has good gaming capability.
If I am not mistaken, some popular gaming platforms are PPC based with CPUs that are not super pumped up with all the water cooling, overclocked cpus, etc...
And obviously these major gaming platforms are still in business and making fun games for all.
So I was curious what stands behind the game and it capability.... is it all about power power power only or does the OS have something to do with it, or all about drivers for the GPUs and that is where gaming is now.
So, right now, same question for MorphOS since I am also planning on buying and supporting this platform, mostly for fun and to help support the folks that work hard on it.
Does the MorphOS platform, version 2.7 or the newer 3.0 coming out, running on say Mac Minis, make a favorable and fun platform to support gaming developers?
TJ
The secret is in the GPU support.
Seriously, if you're worried about games you picked absolutely the worst system imaginable. Did you get rid of your A4000? That was a far, far better platform for games - but then it was an Amiga, not an AmigaOne like what you have now. Apparently you don't understand the difference.
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The secret is in the GPU support.
Seriously, if you're worried about games you picked absolutely the worst system imaginable. Did you get rid of your A4000? That was a far, far better platform for games - but then it was an Amiga, not an AmigaOne like what you have now. Apparently you don't understand the difference.
No, I own a A4000T, A1000, CD32, SAM 440ep, and the X1000.
As mentioned before, I am not a gamer, at least in the modern sense. Worried about gaming, that is silly. Just questions for learning more about the subject and looking for info and feedback.
I enjoy the games from the wayback machine, but that does not mean if I am curious, and have questions, not to ask them in the forums.
Since I do not have a great knowledge of the gaming platform of today, other that the few I play like Castle Wolfenstein once in a while, my question was just out of curiousty, not that I purchased my X1000 for gaming.
I use Mac professionally and the X1000 will also be used in my office, so no plan to be an expensive ornament as another user put it.
I take it some of you don't feel Amiga OS or even MorphOS are not used for business use or gaming?
If that is the case, why be on these forums? What about Amiga OS or MorphOS do YOU use them for?
Some will be hobby, some gaming, some professionally, it is just a computer, and whatever model makes the day go happily along, the more power to the owner.
tj
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Since the late 1990s, the Amiga has been years behind PCs and consoles in terms of games. We have some fun Amiga-developed shareware and ports of open-source stuff ("homebrew", in modern parlance), but a single modern major commercial game is developed by hundreds if not thousands of developers, and with a budget of millions upon millions of dollars. No commercial publisher is going to come anywhere near the X1000 with its installed base in the tens of users right now, regardless of the technical capabilities of the hardware. Same thing with MorphOS and the other OS4 machines, which estimates suggest number well under 10,000 users combined.
Attracting commercial interest will only be realistic if the user base can be grown to the millions. In the meantime, it's a homebrew world we're living in.
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Since the late 1990s, the Amiga has been years behind PCs and consoles in terms of games. We have some fun Amiga-developed shareware and ports of open-source stuff ("homebrew", in modern parlance), but a single modern major commercial game is developed by hundreds if not thousands of developers, and with a budget of millions upon millions of dollars. No commercial publisher is going to come anywhere near the X1000 with its installed base in the tens of users right now, regardless of the technical capabilities of the hardware. Same thing with MorphOS and the other OS4 machines, which estimates suggest number well under 10,000 users combined.
Attracting commercial interest will only be realistic if the user base can be grown to the millions. In the meantime, it's a homebrew world we're living in.
I guess a huge hand and thanks goes out to the folks that keep this Amiga platform alive, even with open source ports.
Kind of sad the Atari and Commodore of days past are no longer alive and especially in the gaming world.
But my use again is not games but still nice to know some folks port some games over for us to enjoy.
tj
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Some will be hobby, some gaming, some professionally, it is just a computer, and whatever model makes the day go happily along, the more power to the owner.
tj
you will have hard time to find an adequate application for an amiga today. i have had such an application at least for some time, due to amigas unique hardware features. but it really demanded genuine amiga hardware in my case. neither pcs nor similar amigalike ng solutions like amigaone or macmini would come in question. to be honest i dont know what i would do with an amigaone if i had one, and therefore i dont care. with an original amiga you have a unique hardware to play with and see in what it differs from todays pc. with an amigaone you do not have neither this nor the other, i guess.
btw. for what do you use or intend to use your amigas, sams or x1k? im having my a4k turned on daily, but lately it was mostly to test aros and program a little presentation, it revolves a little around itself these days i must admit. of course im doing most my productivity stuff on pc next to it.
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@amigasiciety
Exactly, amigaos, morphos or aros is just a hobbie os, no way for gaming or professional use, but... you buy a 2500eur computer for some emuls and office works, thats the true.
I dont understand the people that try to put the amiga on the professional side.
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Some will be hobby, some gaming, some professionally
Anyone using these NG systems for any professional work are few and far between, you could likely count them with fingers in our one hand (no office suite or support for modern file formats kind of kills the whole idea). Gaming is probably limited to retro action, such as mame and friends (and to be honest you can run mame on pretty much any box, it doesn't have to be $1000-$3000 one). For serious gaming (modern titles) you'll just use a PC, Mac or a console.
Hobby.. that's the ticket.
amigasociety, I sincerely do hope you did consider these issues before buying your $3000 computer.
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Anyone using these NG systems for any professional work are few and far between, you could likely count them with fingers in our one hand (no office suite or support for modern file formats kind of kills the whole idea). Gaming is probably limited to retro action, such as mame and friends (and to be honest you can run mame on pretty much any box, it doesn't have to be $1000-$3000 one). For serious gaming (modern titles) you'll just use a PC, Mac or a console.
Hobby.. that's the ticket.
amigasociety, I sincerely do hope you did consider these issues before buying your $3000 computer.
Piru, the X1000 was purchased mostly for hobby and fun but with a dream that fun new things will come from the platform.
No, the X1000 was not purchased so I can throw out my Macs or replace them. :roflmao:
I enjoy many platforms and the X1000 now sitting at my main office u shaped desk will be used for mostly bringing computing fun back into my life but just like most computers in my home, I find a everyday use for them, and the X1000 will for sure see that happen.
I must say, what I like most about Amiga X1000 and the Amiga OS, is the super fast desktop experience. Must say on my Mac, even one that is real new with no defrag issues in the drive, spinning beach ball starts to drive me nuts.
It is nice to do some basic computing on Amiga OS and MorphOS that just flies and that is probably the biggest selling point for me.
tj
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Anyone using these NG systems for any professional work are few and far between, you could likely count them with fingers in our one hand (no office suite or support for modern file formats kind of kills the whole idea). Gaming is probably limited to retro action, such as mame and friends (and to be honest you can run mame on pretty much any box, it doesn't have to be $1000-$3000 one). For serious gaming (modern titles) you'll just use a PC, Mac or a console.
Hobby.. that's the ticket.
amigasociety, I sincerely do hope you did consider these issues before buying your $3000 computer.
Me thinks Piru might be jealous that he doesn't own his own x1000.
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Piru, what may I ask do you use MorphOS for?
Do you develop for MorphOS?
I take it professionally you use Linux or Windows based systems daily but use MorphOS for hobby only?
tj
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Piru, what may I ask do you use MorphOS for?
Do you develop for MorphOS?
Well, you could say that. Dropping the word "for" might get you even closer :)
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Well MorphOS at least has 3D support for a large number of the cards that it supports.
And while we don't have DirectX, we do have some OpenGL compatibility.
AROS also has soon 3D support and Hyperion has announced that they would also like the support OpenGL (eventually).
So, yes all NG systems are hobbyist system. Many of the games available are ports from other OS'. But the fun is in seeing what new capabilities you can gain while still maintaining some legacy compatibility in a next generation development of a system we all hold dear.
It may just be hobbyist, but its developed far better then I ever thought it would.
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Curious about gaming on the Amiga platform.
Now that the AmigaOne X1000 is shipping, and Amiga OS is up to 4.1u5, I wonder if this newer more powerful NG Amiga would make a killer gaming platform also.
My guess the AmigaOne X1000 was designed for more professional use but now that it is the most powerful system to run Amiga OS 4.x, will it attract any from the outside work on the gaming capability of the Amiga platform.
Is gaming relying on strictly high GHz power to propel the 3D nature of gaming or does the respondent OS have anything to do with gaming?
Obviously most games 3D games these days are running on Windows based platform with gaming computers, high overclocked CPUs, water cooling, and all that.
But, is it that they need all this speed because of the bogged down Windows it runs on?
Can a speedy X1000 running Amiga OS make some killer gaming because of how fast the Amiga OS is?
Or again is it all about power power power?
tj
its not just the cpu graphics card and ram just as important
The two brothers have done pc-amiga ports and thertes nothing to stop anyone porting
Open source Pc games ie old pc games
What windows uses is direct x software which is built into windows os
uses this for the sound and graphics interface so you can use many diffrent cards
There working on gaming interface for the amiga os 4 x not yet ready
So id say this is big road block to anyone being able to program decent games for amiga
X1000 , that and doesint support other cpu yet either , its a work in progress
You cant expect one small team to do everthing though easy sit on you butt and complain
be negitvie
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You cant expect one small team to do everthing though easy sit on you butt and complain be negitvie
It didn't sound like he was complaining to me, just asking.
The X1000 has the potential to play reasonably modern games if it's hardware resources could be fully utilised.
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Well, you could say that. Dropping the word "for" might get you even closer :)
Even though I have only been on the Amiga forums for a couple years now, I have read enough that I know Piru is pro MorphOS and I figured he either develops for it, or is one of the main folks helping make it happen. No reason for me to study one persons background over another.
But, curious to know now since he has participated in this thread I started what he uses MorphOS for. Is it strictly hobby? Does he use it professionally or everyday computing? Does he instead use Linux or Windows (or something else) for everyday use?
What drove me to buy into a number of the Amiga "based" platforms could very well be why Piru and many others support their favorite platform.
For me, I love the speediness of Amiga OS user experience. I was also blown away with MorphOS and how speedy its user experience is. Being a professional Mac person, I love what MorphOS has done for the G4 Apple systems. I could see me equally using my Mac Mini G4 1.5GHz system for some professional or everyday computing.
TJ
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Well, you could say that. Dropping the word "for" might get you even closer :)
heck with all the interest he has in AmigaOS4.x threads here I'd of guessed he had shares in Hyperion! of course along with shares in recycling old Apple products
@ amigasociety
I guess you're starting to figure out why you don't find many AmigaOS4.x users here lately eh :razz:
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@ amigasociety
I guess you're starting to figure out why you don't find many AmigaOS4.x users here lately eh :razz:
Uh, because there aren't that many in total?
Or maybe its because they get tired of hearing that their OS doesn't compare well to the alternatives?
When your rendering figures with Radeon HD graphics compare poorly to a Radeon 9200 based system you know there's something wrong.
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@amigasociety
Amiga has not been gaming platform since 1994 but there are few excellent open source games ported from Linux. Battle for Wesnoth and OpenTTD for example, they are one of my favorite games on MorphOS. I know they were ported to OS4 so maybe you want to take a look.
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@amigasociety
Amiga has not been gaming platform since 1994 but there are few excellent open source games ported from Linux. Battle for Wesnoth and OpenTTD for example, they are one of my favorite games on MorphOS. I know they were ported to OS4 so maybe you want to take a look.
Thanks for the tips. Will have to check them out. Tj
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The OS has to provide the necessary services for the games to utilize. Today that's DirectX 11.
No, that should be OpenGL. OpenGL is a much more viable platform than ever before. You see everything from the PS3 to the iPhone to the Android supporting OpenGL. Only Microsoft supports DX11, yet they also support OGL. DX11 is really only an option if you're a huge games publisher than can risk millions of dollars on a single Triple-A title. Most of these games are failures, that's why you see most publishers in the red and most dev houses shutting down.
It's about market size. No-one is going to bother with commercial games if the potential sales are counted in hundreds.
So you can forget any kind of commercial games.
Not at all. While it's true that there is no company that will develop SOLELY for the Amiga looking for a profit, you do have companies that can develop cross-platform games that support the Amiga. The other side is that hardware manufacturer's often fund game projects themselves to ignite interest in the platform. How do you think there are launch titles? There is also the fact that independent development has become so much more relevant--hobbyists and small studios can now market their games directly without having shelf-space at Gamestop.
Also, I'd say it doesn't help that the actual 3D drivers are nowhere to be seen.
Now this is another matter. If there is no graphics driver support, then the difficulty ramp raises considerably.
=Beast
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No, that should be OpenGL. OpenGL is a much more viable platform than ever before. You see everything from the PS3 to the iPhone to the Android supporting OpenGL. Only Microsoft supports DX11, yet they also support OGL. DX11 is really only an option if you're a huge games publisher than can risk millions of dollars on a single Triple-A title. Most of these games are failures, that's why you see most publishers in the red and most dev houses shutting down.
OpenGL support is still quite spotty with the windows, I'm afraid. Traditionally DirectX has gotten much more attention from the driver developers. It however is nowhere near as bad as it was couple of years ago.
Not at all. While it's true that there is no company that will develop SOLELY for the Amiga looking for a profit, you do have companies that can develop cross-platform games that support the Amiga. The other side is that hardware manufacturer's often fund game projects themselves to ignite interest in the platform. How do you think there are launch titles?
Which titles? I don't see any.
There is also the fact that independent development has become so much more relevant--hobbyists and small studios can now market their games directly without having shelf-space at Gamestop.
Could be, but I can count recent commercial amiga titles with one hand. None of them are nowhere near interesting for me to buy.
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Trust me, it's about market size.
To recoup on total costs you need to sell several hundred thousand units, or at least many tens of thousands.
Now consider the size of the Amiga market. If an Amiga model sells well it'll sell a few thousand units. On a really good return you may get a quarter of that buying your game. Launch products are made where the projected sales are at least a million these days.
As you can see, getting a game made specifically for the Amiga is suicide. Your only hope is getting a company to port from the Mac on the cheap (no DirectX), and even then you are talking tens of thousands quite possibly.
In other words, it's just not viable for a niche platform to have games written professionally.
Also, there is no proper developers environment like MSDev or even Eclipse.
Plus, the fact is that all our hardware is very slow these days, when compared to x86 Macs and PCs.
There is no way I'm afraid you will be able to use your x1000 for gaming unless it homebrew or open source, same as every other amigaoid platform.
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Anyone using these NG systems for any professional work are few and far between, you could likely count them with fingers in our one hand (no office suite or support for modern file formats kind of kills the whole idea). Gaming is probably limited to retro action, such as mame and friends (and to be honest you can run mame on pretty much any box, it doesn't have to be $1000-$3000 one). For serious gaming (modern titles) you'll just use a PC, Mac or a console.
Hobby.. that's the ticket.
amigasociety, I sincerely do hope you did consider these issues before buying your $3000 computer.
1,000,000 happy gould's use NG Amiga's in the Bahamas.
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OpenGL support is still quite spotty with the windows, I'm afraid. Traditionally DirectX has gotten much more attention from the driver developers. It however is nowhere near as bad as it was couple of years ago.
What do you mean by spotty? I'd argue that the Khronos group has remained active in it's support for updated technology. It has had to. There are numerous titles that are developed with the latest OpenGL, take for instance Dark Siders.
Which titles? I don't see any.
Well currently, there are none! I'm thinking of future titles. You have to start somewhere.
Could be, but I can count recent commercial amiga titles with one hand. None of them are nowhere near interesting for me to buy.
The X1000 just came out, correct? I'm simply stating that the thing can grow and develop a user base. Like I said, it would probably require some incentive to do so, e.g. money. But it's not out of the realm of possibility.
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Speaking as the owner and director of a games company, I can tell you now there is no way I would consider writing just for AmigaOS unless someone was paying me up front, because the numbers are just far too small. If you can get me £100,000 I'll get the guys started on a small game if you like, that should cover about 12 months work (as we're a very small company so we're very cheap compared to most) so we should be able to get a nice little game up.
Of course for your £100,000 you'll probably see sales - if we do a REALLY successful game - of about £10,000.
You might have a hard time getting financing with those numbers.
Honestly, I'm as pro-Amiga as anyone but seriously, the days of the Amiga as a commercial gaming platform are long gone. Heck, I wouldn't even want to do a game on the PC, which is a billion times the bigger platform, because there's no point - you can get much more return on a 360 or PS3.
For gaming, consoles have taken over the market.
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Honestly, I'm as pro-Amiga as anyone but seriously, the days of the Amiga as a commercial gaming platform are long gone. Heck, I wouldn't even want to do a game on the PC, which is a billion times the bigger platform, because there's no point - you can get much more return on a 360 or PS3.
For gaming, consoles have taken over the market.
Amen.
The buzz is with the consoles and mobile devices (mostly apple store, some android market. The problem with android is that the device scene is too fragmented). The most notable success stories appear to follow the same script: 1) Make an basic game/app that is free or very cheap 2) Create internal content that is payware (more levels, more special/status items, whatever). Make purchasing very easy (single click if possible). 3) Give out free stuff out occasionally, adding even more potential future customers.
Some of the guys in the industry are paper billionaires now.
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Amen.
The buzz is with the consoles and mobile devices (mostly apple store, some android market. The problem with android is that the device scene is too fragmented). The most notable success stories appear to follow the same script: 1) Make an basic game/app that is free or very cheap 2) Create internal content that is payware (more levels, more special/status items, whatever). Make purchasing very easy (single click if possible). 3) Give out free stuff out occasionally, adding even more potential future customers.
Some of the guys in the industry are paper billionaires now.
So Piru, what do you use MorphOS for?
*(curious, since you've ignored Amigasociety's question three times now)
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66 million XBoxes @ USD 100 to 300.
55.5 million PS3s sold @ USD 300 to 400.
95 million Wii sold @ USD 100 to 300.
250 AmigaOne X1000s made. Priced at £1799, USD 3000.
If I'm a developer, which platform/s am I likely to develop for?
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If I'm a developer, which platform/s am I likely to develop for?
This makes me think of the fantastic Zero Mostel/Gene Wilder film "The Producers".
I'll write a game for you, sure. And if you pay me £1000 I'll give you 10% of all the profits. Then I just need to keep doing that for another 100 people and I'm rich!
Any takers? Go on, you know you want to....!
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66 million XBoxes @ USD 100 to 300.
55.5 million PS3s sold @ USD 300 to 400.
95 million Wii sold @ USD 100 to 300.
250 AmigaOne X1000s made. Priced at £1799, USD 3000.
If I'm a developer, which platform/s am I likely to develop for?
The X1000 because you feel "Teh Spirit of Amiga!"
Or maybe that was just some bad fish?
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So Piru, what do you use MorphOS for?
replied here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=679437&postcount=16)
To elaborate, I've written all sort of things in MorphOS, here's some of the components I've touched over the last 11 years:
quark (kernel)
abox static and jit (trance) 68k emulators
abox exception handling and processing
btree,library
ramlib
sysdebug.library (built-in segtracker)
cyberguard (built-in enforcer)
exec.library
dos.library
shell
resident shell commands
utility.library
intuition.library
graphics.library
layers.library
cybergraphics.library
commodities.library
gadtools.library
cia(a|b).resource
card.resource
misc.resource
battclock.resource
battmem.resource
potgo.resource
clipboard.device
input.device
keyboard.device
timer.device
network drivers (SANA2)
monitor drivers (CGX)
scsi/sata/ide device drivers
c commands
various disk based libraries and components, too numerous to list, there are probably only a couple of things I haven't touched
datatype system
ixemul (nix port compatibility share library)
debug.lib (debug link-library)
libnix (amiga.lib replacement)
arexx
ambient, including icon and workbench libraries
contributions to poseidon (usb stack)
Degree of my involvement in each component of course varies. Some things I've written mostly myself, while other contributions are rather minor (bugfixes). The list is awfully incomplete, I grouped ton of stuff to "various disk based libraries and components".
In short, this is what I use MorphOS for: Developing MorphOS.
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I'm been sort of following the X1000... But why is it so expensive!? Any idea if that will come down over time? I'm all for low volume novelty/hobby hardware. But for $3000 I can buy a beast of a PowerMac. On the PC side, for that you could have the ultimate gaming rig. But I guess there is a market if they are selling...
Personally I'm pretty excited about the FPGA-Arcade...
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replied here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=679437&postcount=16)
To elaborate, I've written all sort of things in MorphOS, here's some of the components I've touched over the last 11 years:
Degree of my involvement in each component of course varies. Some things I've written mostly myself, while other contributions are rather minor (bugfixes). The list is awfully incomplete, I grouped ton of stuff to "various disk based libraries and components".
In short, this is what I use MorphOS for: Developing MorphOS.
Wow, you must have a great passion for MorphOS. Looks like you have worked hard to make MorphOS a viable Amiga based OS.
I know from the little time I have spent using 2.7, I really like the Ambient desktop. So smooth and has a very fresh feel to it.
Tell me though, I take it all that you have done with and for MorphOS has been as a hobby only?
I would take it you put MorphOS in the same category as Amiga OS 4.1.x and AROS as a hobby OS only and not one folks should look at to help run their businesses or for production of modern gaming, like we have been discussing in this thread I started?
TJ
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I'm been sort of following the X1000... But why is it so expensive!? Any idea if that will come down over time? I'm all for low volume novelty/hobby hardware. But for $3000 I can buy a beast of a PowerMac. On the PC side, for that you could have the ultimate gaming rig. But I guess there is a market if they are selling...
Personally I'm pretty excited about the FPGA-Arcade...
(http://i.imgur.com/apY9t.jpg)
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Tell me though, I take it all that you have done with and for MorphOS has been as a hobby only?
Yep. It has been pretty good reference though. :P
I would take it you put MorphOS in the same category as Amiga OS 4.1.x and AROS as a hobby OS only and not one folks should look at to help run their businesses or for production of modern gaming, like we have been discussing in this thread I started?
Indeed I do.
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Yep. It has been pretty good reference though. :P
Indeed I do.
Thanks for the honest answer.
Looking forward to when MorphOS 3.0 comes out as I will be diving in more myself to learn as maybe it will also be a good reference for me also.
TJ
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66 million XBoxes @ USD 100 to 300.
55.5 million PS3s sold @ USD 300 to 400.
95 million Wii sold @ USD 100 to 300.
250 AmigaOne X1000s made. Priced at £1799, USD 3000.
If I'm a developer, which platform/s am I likely to develop for?
Thats silly argument when brought my sony ps3 when first released in new zealand it
was in fact 1200.00 nz plus it was more xpensive than was in the usa and we had to wait till yanks got there fill and they took out the ps2 hardware emulation.
And they where not many good game si even liked for the machine they dont always get it right certainly wasint the ps2 all over again. i used it for media centre and blu ray player
Played bit of reisitance and one car racing game forget the title
but i do agree with what platform u whould devlep for mind it be nice to have some orginal type amiga games not much orginal these days from big companys
there just after big bucks and playing it safe dumbing the games down really
forget team 17 are still in the market and others that cut there theeth on the amiga
And alot people play those god alwfull flash games like farmville evony my nephew spends hours on that thing , i should imagine as there web based you will be able play these on amiga once the firefox port is brought along more. i say its quality not quanity
So little game that costs less to make , get it beta tested on amiga flash up graphics for xbox ps3 vita ? there you got you money back , and alot eager testers to try for you
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I think you're underestimating how much work is involved in porting to a new platform.
Put it this way:
Estimated cost to port: $10,000
estimated return on investment: $1000
Developing a commercial game on the Amiga is tantamount to charity, I'm afraid. There is just no business sense at all.
If you want to spend several thousand on getting a game written then great, but no company will.
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Since the late 1990s, the Amiga has been years behind PCs and consoles in terms of games.
By "the late 1990s", I think you mean 1994. By then Amiga games were either poor clones of Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog, or technically limited "Doom clones".
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I would take it you put MorphOS in the same category as Amiga OS 4.1.x and AROS as a hobby OS only and not one folks should look at to help run their businesses or for production of modern gaming, like we have been discussing in this thread I started?
TJ
I know that would be Piru's sentiment, but I use MorphOS as often as any of my other systems.
I have Linux and Windows, but whenever possible I use MorphOS. It boots fast and has a decent web browser. I don't really care about games, but we could use an office package or a better word processor.
And it would be great if UAE was as powerful as WinUAE.
Hobbyist OS' are always in flux, buggy and unstable with features incomplete or entirely missing. MorphOS has been stable and functional for years.
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Curious about gaming on the Amiga platform.
Now that the AmigaOne X1000 is shipping, and Amiga OS is up to 4.1u5, I wonder if this newer more powerful NG Amiga would make a killer gaming platform also.
My guess the AmigaOne X1000 was designed for more professional use but now that it is the most powerful system to run Amiga OS 4.x, will it attract any from the outside work on the gaming capability of the Amiga platform.
Is gaming relying on strictly high GHz power to propel the 3D nature of gaming or does the respondent OS have anything to do with gaming?
Obviously most games 3D games these days are running on Windows based platform with gaming computers, high overclocked CPUs, water cooling, and all that.
But, is it that they need all this speed because of the bogged down Windows it runs on?
Can a speedy X1000 running Amiga OS make some killer gaming because of how fast the Amiga OS is?
Or again is it all about power power power?
tj
Killer gaming on X1000... :lol:
One of the later "killer games" was Starcraft 2 (just one of several killer games the last years). Just for a reference, look at the list of people involved in the "Credits" cinematic ending the single player campaign (feel free to look through the whole list to really get a feel of the amount of people involved):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Pu_j9yHCg&t=3m45s
As you can see, the list goes on for many minutes, and contains more people than most Hollywood Blockbuster movies!
The game was released worldwide on July 27, 2010. Here is part of the marketing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Starcraft_II_Commercial_on_Korean_Air_-_Seoul_Incheon_Airport_edit.JPG) for the game (yes, that's a Jumbo Jet painted in a SC2 theme!)
It sold 1,000,000 units the first day. As of December the same year, the game has sold nearly 4.5 million units.
OK, hmm, so now when the "Amiga" is back in force with the X1000, why wouldn't Blizzard be interested in supporting this new technological revolution you say? After all, it's sold in, what, a hundred units? Two hundred? Three hundred?
2007 level performance of the HW, without driver support for 3D, completely lacking the SW framework needed, etc. And costing some $3,000 making it really dressed for success! I mean, how wouldn't it make sense for a game publisher to spend time developing for this gem?
PS.
Maybe if the community provides Blizzard with a free X1000 system? We could set up a bounty collecting the money from the community! Then someone living close by could go over to the Blizzard head quarter delivering it? And ssolie could provide them with the SW and information they need? This will be great! :rolleyes:
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Killer gaming on X1000... :lol:
One of the later "killer games" was Starcraft 2 (just one of several killer games the last years). Just for a reference, look at the list of people involved in the "Credits" cinematic ending the single player campaign (feel free to look through the whole list to really get a feel of the amount of people involved):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Pu_j9yHCg&t=3m45s
As you can see, the list goes on for many minutes, and contains more people than most Hollywood Blockbuster movies!
The game was released worldwide on July 27, 2010. Here is part of the marketing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Starcraft_II_Commercial_on_Korean_Air_-_Seoul_Incheon_Airport_edit.JPG) for the game (yes, that's a Jumbo Jet painted in a SC2 theme!)
It sold 1,000,000 units the first day. As of December the same year, the game has sold nearly 4.5 million units.
OK, hmm, so now when the "Amiga" is back in force with the X1000, why wouldn't Blizzard be interested in supporting this new technological revolution you say? After all, it's sold in, what, a hundred units? Two hundred? Three hundred?
2007 level performance of the HW, without driver support for 3D, completely lacking the SW framework needed, etc. And costing some $3,000 making it really dressed for success! I mean, how wouldn't it make sense for a game publisher to spend time developing for this gem?
PS.
Maybe if the community provides Blizzard with a free X1000 system? We could set up a bounty collecting the money from the community! Then someone living close by could go over to the Blizzard head quarter delivering it? And ssolie could provide them with the SW and information they need? This will be great! :rolleyes:
I detect a slight note of sarcasm.
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............. Heck, I wouldn't even want to do a game on the PC, which is a billion times the bigger platform, because there's no point - you can get much more return on a 360 or PS3.
For gaming, consoles have taken over the market.
* Sniff * That is the most beautiful news I have ever heard in my life * sniff * Finally, finally no more stupid PC games that demand constant hardware upgrade. No more stupid PC games that lag down and slow down because of many applications open on the market or shrink to window because someone text you or send you a message. No more stupid PC game where it constantly goes to the desktop and quit because of faulty coding and constant crashing, and you have to patch it up a thousand and a hundred fifty times before it is stable enough to play and still crashes after that.
No more stupid PC games where I have to buy an 800 dollar video card to get at least decent a graphics quality without drop in frame rate......I am the happiest person in the world. I am a full blown console supported and ALL AND ALL of my xbox 360 games I buy them! Not a single game is stolen or downloaded from torrent or anything like that. All of them buy buy buy buy buy buy buy buy! Sometimes I spend 200 dollars on xbox 360 games.
In fact I am going to pre-order Mass Effect 3 and The Darkness 2 and those two games is going to cost me 120 dollars easy!!
Yup, xBox 360 IS THE THE ULTIMATE TOY!
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...finally no more stupid PC games that demand constant hardware upgrade...
Why does everyone ALWAYS say that? It`s utter garbage! My 8800GT is years old and plays everything perfectly well at max settings if you choose a reasonable resolution...
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Not to mention the fact that any decent machine with a decent graphics card will absolutely BLOW AWAY any console junk out there...
If you are going to spew CRAP at least make it somewhat reasonable when you do... Otherwise you just look silly...
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I have several games on my sAmiga that i have good fun playing. Some i purchased from AmigaKit, some downloaded, and others from Amiga Future CD's. I haven't tried doing emulation to play games but want to in the future.
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Curious about gaming on the Amiga platform.
Now that the AmigaOne X1000 is shipping, and Amiga OS is up to 4.1u5, I wonder if this newer more powerful NG Amiga would make a killer gaming platform also.
I make a summary:
X1000 is out for gaming
X1000 is out for internet
X1000 is out for Office
X1000 is ok to watch Workbench, icons and composite on FullHD
X1000 is ok to play with MAME, Playstation 1, neogeo and maybe dosbox gaming (complex 3D games maybe not).
Maybe X1000 could run UAE games and application at full 68040/68060 speed (maybe..)
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composite on FullHD
What do you mean, "composite on FullHD"?
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What do you mean, "composite on FullHD"?
composite engine: nice effects and workbench and direcotry, transparence, ecc ecc
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replied here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=679437&postcount=16)
To elaborate, I've written all sort of things in MorphOS, here's some of the components I've touched over the last 11 years:
quark (kernel)
abox static and jit (trance) 68k emulators
abox exception handling and processing
btree,library
ramlib
sysdebug.library (built-in segtracker)
cyberguard (built-in enforcer)
exec.library
dos.library
shell
resident shell commands
utility.library
intuition.library
graphics.library
layers.library
cybergraphics.library
commodities.library
gadtools.library
cia(a|b).resource
card.resource
misc.resource
battclock.resource
battmem.resource
potgo.resource
clipboard.device
input.device
keyboard.device
timer.device
network drivers (SANA2)
monitor drivers (CGX)
scsi/sata/ide device drivers
c commands
various disk based libraries and components, too numerous to list, there are probably only a couple of things I haven't touched
datatype system
ixemul (nix port compatibility share library)
debug.lib (debug link-library)
libnix (amiga.lib replacement)
arexx
ambient, including icon and workbench libraries
contributions to poseidon (usb stack)
Degree of my involvement in each component of course varies. Some things I've written mostly myself, while other contributions are rather minor (bugfixes). The list is awfully incomplete, I grouped ton of stuff to "various disk based libraries and components".
In short, this is what I use MorphOS for: Developing MorphOS.
Are you using tools running on Morphos to do this? Otherwise you're not really using Morphos for anything: you're just developing Morphos.
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Why does everyone ALWAYS say that? It`s utter garbage! My 8800GT is years old and plays everything perfectly well at max settings if you choose a reasonable resolution...
What did cost new?
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Not to mention the fact that any decent machine with a decent graphics card will absolutely BLOW AWAY any console junk out there...
If you are going to spew CRAP at least make it somewhat reasonable when you do... Otherwise you just look silly...
what would a that cost? And the obligatory fartsing around with drivers, and bugs.
1080p-hell 720p- on a 50 inch widescreen in the living room is plenty good for the VAST majority of gamers, all of whom play consoles. Judging by the lack of shelf space PC games get-and, no, most don't buy online games, they tend not to BUY at all- PC games will slowly end up a niche platform.
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what would a that cost? And the obligatory fartsing around with drivers, and bugs.
1080p-hell 720p- on a 50 inch widescreen in the living room is plenty good for the VAST majority of gamers, all of whom play consoles. Judging by the lack of shelf space PC games get-and, no, most don't buy online games, they tend not to BUY at all- PC games will slowly end up a niche platform.
I am seriously praying with all my heart that this will happen. Even my brother migrated from PC to console and when I ask him to play a PC game his face screw up in disgust and says "No!"
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Speaking as the owner and director of a games company, I can tell you now there is no way I would consider writing just for AmigaOS unless someone was paying me up front, because the numbers are just far too small. If you can get me £100,000 I'll get the guys started on a small game if you like, that should cover about 12 months work (as we're a very small company so we're very cheap compared to most) so we should be able to get a nice little game up.
Of course for your £100,000 you'll probably see sales - if we do a REALLY successful game - of about £10,000.
You might have a hard time getting financing with those numbers.
Honestly, I'm as pro-Amiga as anyone but seriously, the days of the Amiga as a commercial gaming platform are long gone. Heck, I wouldn't even want to do a game on the PC, which is a billion times the bigger platform, because there's no point - you can get much more return on a 360 or PS3.
For gaming, consoles have taken over the market.
If you're referring to my posts, ultimately I think you're missing my points:
1. There would be no "successful" game on the Amiga, and certainly no one would do anything with it looking for a return on their investment!
2. Any work would need to be done by hobbyists or indy development teams who are probably Amiga fans themselves. Again, for no money. I mean, we all do this as a hobby, right? Anybody getting rich out there on the Amiga? Heck, people still make hardware for this thing.
3. Any game done on the Amiga would simply be for fun, and might need to be the result of an Amiga company offering a small incentive to just to get something on it's platform.
People make games all the time because they're fun, not always for financial gain.
... and I also worked as a programmer for 4 years in the games industry, so I do have experience. However, I only have an Amiga 2500 and not the time!
-Chris
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This whole, "pc gaming is a niche" nonsenese has been repeated for years (at least a decade) and yet nothing has changed. If anything pc gaming has increased in popularity in recent times. Repeating it over and over again, contrary to what some people appear to think doesnt make it true. Yes consoles command a large part f the market, but pc game sales are still strong enough that developers continue to support the platform, especially with games whose mechanics favor the platform.
Dont like pc gaming, fine, ignore it.
I enjoy my xb360, but its pretty humble compared to my pc gaming rig (which is connected to the same big screen 1080p tv, in the lounge with joypads, etc. ). The pc blows it away for audiovisuals.
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I lament.
Is this what we're left with? Now I knew that the brightest Amiga talent moved to more enriching platforms (technologically and financially), but I didn't know that all we were left with are laggards and people who seem to know squat about computers.
No offense to amigasociety, he seems like a genuinely nice guy, and maybe that's the problem, you're all too nice for your own good; because he's not the only one to throw these kinds of questions around.
FYI, a fast(-ish) CPU and AmigaOS 4.1u5 does not a platform make. Heck, it barely makes a computer. And this is the distinction everyone should be able to make before discussing anything else. The age of computers has passed, even platforms are waning in the face of ecosystems.
I thought maybe these people are being facetious in asking these kinds of questions, but some of them have already received their X1000-FC and others are awaiting delivery, and I doubt they'd dis a system they forked out ~US$3,000.00 for.
takemehomegrandma has covered the game aspect fairly well, though not every killer game has such a large team working on it, but the point still stands.
I'm not a mean-spiritted person but what I see saddens me and I can't help but rain on some o' y'all's parade. Even with the second core enabled, 3D drivers, Xena, and AmigaOS 4.2un, none of the commercial entities that have previously released games and/or productivity software for the PowerPC Mac will bother porting those products to the X1000, let alone write new stuff.
Those of you that have purchased or are planning to purchase an X1000 as a hobby computer, I know you're all nice people, y'all like the Amiga so you must be, I know you'll end up getting some satisfaction from your purchase, and my intention is not to undermine your decision. I plead that you all do a little reading into what it takes to have even a mildly successful platform; because if you wan't more from the companies that are brining you your favourite system, this way you'll be able to ask the right questions.
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At the end of the day, like I said a year+ ago - a X1000 will not do a thing different from a lowly SAM 440. Will it run Blender quicker? Sure. OS4 machines are fun little machines to putz around on, and until there's some sort of more varied software for them they will be not much more than a novelty. You cannot even type up and save a native Office format grocery list on this $3000 machine, just like I can't on my SAM. Even the $25 Raspberry Pi should be able to do that when it's released under Linux.
We need modern software for these machines something terrible.
So will the $150 PC in the corner, in fact the PC will run circles around the X1000. If you bought a high end NG Amiga machine for serious rendering purposes, it may be enjoyable working with the machine, but your productivity is suffering.
I hope those who bought them enjoy them and bought them for the right reasons and love them for what they are - fun hobby systems. I certainly overpaid for my SAM, but I do enjoy it and I am not silly enough to try and justify the $1000 I spent on it in comparison to what it can do compared to modern machines. Truth be told, my iPad is more useful for modern computing and consumption.
Regarding gaming - I'm about to do something I've never done, and that's agree with Takemehomegrandma, as well as Agami. The Amiga will never be a contender in gaming again, not in a market of $500 3ghz cheapo PC builds that can run BF2 and games like Skyrim. Gaming, as Agami said is also becoming quite platform redundant with things like the iPad as well. Never thought I would see the day where I could buy GTA 3 for my Ipad (for $5), and it's every bit as good as the original was and I can play it anywhere.
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Ah, this is something I read recently: How to Create a $1M App with a $10K Marketing Budget (http://www.forbes.com/sites/terokuittinen/2012/02/01/how-to-create-a-1m-app-with-a-10k-marketing-budget/)
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66 million XBoxes @ USD 100 to 300.
55.5 million PS3s sold @ USD 300 to 400.
95 million Wii sold @ USD 100 to 300.
250 AmigaOne X1000s made. Priced at £1799, USD 3000.
If I'm a developer, which platform/s am I likely to develop for?
Fair comment. Wii has Xbox1 quality visuals at best though ;)
Firstly the PS3 has twin 6800GTX SLI type performance. The 360 has ATI Radeon X1800/1850 type GPU. Both are old hat really. However the CPU is about the same as an AMD triple core Phenom so it isn't the CPU grunt as such either, and the G5 class PPC is not even close to the PPC performance of the IBM Xenon 3.2Ghz CPU in the 360 and even if it was OS4 can only use one core.
What IS different is the architecture of the consoles, the bus bandwidth is incredible for a start. The OS overhead is minuscule too and the hardware specification is locked. This means consoles are very efficiently utilized unlike Win7 gaming PCs.
What x1000 needed in the first place was a locked graphics card with top end specification, and then pay for full 3D driver development for that one and only 3D card specified.
As it stands the x1000 technically could never compete with even a £500 PC gaming wise, so it might get better games than SAM based machines but that's not really enough IMO.
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Fair comment. Wii has Xbox1 quality visuals at best though ;)
Firstly the PS3 has twin 6800GTX SLI type performance. The 360 has ATI Radeon X1800/1850 type GPU. Both are old hat really. However the CPU is about the same as an AMD triple core Phenom so it isn't the CPU grunt as such either, and the G5 class PPC is not even close to the PPC performance of the IBM Xenon 3.2Ghz CPU in the 360 and even if it was OS4 can only use one core.
What IS different is the architecture of the consoles, the bus bandwidth is incredible for a start. The OS overhead is minuscule too and the hardware specification is locked. This means consoles are very efficiently utilized unlike Win7 gaming PCs.
What x1000 needed in the first place was a locked graphics card with top end specification, and then pay for full 3D driver development for that one and only 3D card specified.
As it stands the x1000 technically could never compete with even a £500 PC gaming wise, so it might get better games than SAM based machines but that's not really enough IMO.
Actually, the G5 core is more capable then the cores in the Xenon.
The Xenon cores and the PPE core of the Cell BE (in the PS3) are both in order execution designs.
The G5 is an out of order processor and is significantly more powerful per clock cycle.
Current game machine processors, while clocked fast, are closer to G4s the their performance.
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Actually, the G5 core is more capable then the cores in the Xenon.
The Xenon cores and the PPE core of the Cell BE (in the PS3) are both in order execution designs.
The G5 is an out of order processor and is significantly more powerful per clock cycle.
Current game machine processors, while clocked fast, are closer to G4s the their performance.
That doesn't really matter for running game code on a locked hardware reference design, only on a generic OS like Windows on a complete disaster of an open hardware specification. OS4 can only use one core of the G5 and it's cocked at half the speed too though.
But like I said, it's not just the CPU that makes games like Killzone 3 possible on PS3 for $300. Amiga 1000/500 used to have all the advantages of a console and a home computer which is why it was unique in the 80s.
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That is *NOT* a computer!
*THIS* is a computer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn3cmYJ4Pw4&t=30s
:lol: