Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: mechy on January 16, 2012, 07:31:37 AM
-
Anyone considering buying the 68060 chips from seller I.V.TAN on ebay dont bother. I won all of them originally and they are fake. I sent the info back to him with the chips and got a refund. He aparently does not deem it necessary to tell people they are fakes..:furious:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1lb-0-4oz-Gold-Recovery-CPUS-Processors-10PCS-/280803982233?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416138bb99
These are china remark fake 68lc060's rev 4 remarked to the 71e41J mask.
they are missing the fpu. they are NOT revision 6 chips as marked
Mech
-
@mechy
That auction is listed as "gold recovery" and not as a 68060 CPU. Looks like the seller is trying to recover some money from the fakes by selling them as salvage stock...
-
Anyone considering buying the 68060 chips from seller I.V.TAN on ebay dont bother. I won all of them originally and they are fake. I sent the info back to him with the chips and got a refund. He aparently does not deem it necessary to tell people they are fakes..:furious:
Yikes!! I was bidding on those same auctions. I considered the possibility they were duds, which is why I refused to rise over 1.5 times the value of a '060 (there were 10 in the auction.) I noticed the final selling price was much higher, so I can understand your anger at the misdescription.
I see now he is not marking them as 68060 CPUs, so it's possible the guy just doesn't understand this particular brand of CPU and the original misdescription was an error on his part. I'm glad he agreed to refund you, in any case; the original auction stated "no refunds." (Did he put up a fight after you pointed out the description in the auction was incorrect, or agree it was his mistake?) For what its worth, he told me they "looked brand new" but wouldn't say whether he thought they were working or not, or how he came into possession of them.
Finally, are these LC060's of any value to Amiga users or does AmigaOS expect and require an FPU in an 68060 in order to function? Did you get around to testing to see if they would work or were you more understandably interested in getting a refund and didn't want to risk bending/damaging the CPUs?
-
Does WhichAmiga tell the truth about the revision/fpu?
What's the best way to test this?
-
I see now he is not marking them as 68060 CPUs, so it's possible the guy just doesn't understand this particular brand of CPU and the original misdescription was an error on his part.
It's also possible they're for gold recovery as someone already mentioned, in which case the type of CPU isn't relevant, only the amount of gold.
-
It's also possible they're for gold recovery as someone already mentioned, in which case the type of CPU isn't relevant, only the amount of gold.
The new auction doesn't include it, but the original auction (the one mechy and myself saw) was very specific about the CPU model, giving detailed processor information within the title and auction description.
Ah, here it is:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280795073645
I should also mention that when I queried the auction with the seller, he said the 68060's "looked brand new" and said they "were not pulls" (i.e. they hadn't been pulled out of a CPU socket of a computer system). He wouldn't outright say they were working, however, or give me any information as to how he got ahold of them. The seller may or may not have had honest intentions, but since the description was off, the winner was entitled to a refund. I am curious, however, as to whether the seller tried to put up a fight or whether he apologised for the error and accepted the returns.
-
Right the original auction i won had the mask and part numbers listed.He had 40 total of the cpus, i bought all 40 and tested with which amiga and they are indeed fake. Granted the amiga will run with a LC chip,but being rev 4 they probably wont overclock much and even if so you are missing the fpu which is important to many things.
He is now selling as scrap gold,but by doing so there is no need for a picture of the top of the chip with part # and mask,its just my theory that he is trying to capitalize on people thinking they will get a real 71e41J cheap driving the bidding up. Maybe its not intentional, who knows.
As i say i had the chips in my hand and they did appear to be brand new,no evidence of ever being installed but only useful for a key chain :D
Edit: @shapeshifter: no he did not put up a fight and said he didn't know. claimed he bought them from a company local to him that went under.who knows if thats true,or not i was just happy i got every dime back. Now that the chinese have found the world market on chips, tons of fakes are popping up everywhere.
Mech
The new auction doesn't include it, but the original auction (the one mechy and myself saw) was very specific about the CPU model, giving detailed processor information within the title and auction description.
Ah, here it is:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280795073645
I should also mention that when I queried the auction with the seller, he said the 68060's "looked brand new" and said they "were not pulls" (i.e. they hadn't been pulled out of a CPU socket of a computer system). He wouldn't outright say they were working, however, or give me any information as to how he got ahold of them. The seller may or may not have had honest intentions, but since the description was off, the winner was entitled to a refund. I am curious, however, as to whether the seller tried to put up a fight or whether he apologised for the error and accepted the returns.
-
Finally, are these LC060's of any value to Amiga users
Sure! If they are cheap.
An LC060 still blows away a lame 030 or 020!
How much are these LC060s selling for?
or does AmigaOS expect and require an FPU in an 68060 in order to function?
Not required.
Did these chips have an MMU?
BTW: u can never trust the markings of any 060 100%. You must always test the chip to see if it really has an MMU or FPU.
For example: The 060 in my A1200 has markings that indicate no MMU.
Yet the chip really does have a working mmu!
For some ppl (like me) a MMU is more valuable than an FPU.
-
Anyone considering buying the 68060 chips from seller I.V.TAN on ebay dont bother. I won all of them originally and they are fake. I sent the info back to him with the chips and got a refund. He aparently does not deem it necessary to tell people they are fakes..:furious:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1lb-0-4oz-Gold-Recovery-CPUS-Processors-10PCS-/280803982233?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416138bb99
These are china remark fake 68lc060's rev 4 remarked to the 71e41J mask.
they are missing the fpu. they are NOT revision 6 chips as marked
Mech
Would these 68LC060s be OK for the FPGA Arcade's daughter board? If so, I might snag them and then pass them on to Jakub for the boards or sell them at cost to other FPGA Arcade customers.
-
I'm not really surprised that this finally bit one of us. And I expect the situation to only get worse. Coutnerfeit semiconductors has become a huge problem. I think sometime last year newegg dropped one of their suppliers because customers were getting fake chips that were nothing more than poor die-cast molds of CPU chips, expensive ones. The fan inlcuded was little more than a plastic block with a sticker on it. Counterfeit parts have affected how big companies do purchasing, with new industries coming up to provide verification services. Some fakes are simply pulls marked as new parts. Some things get relabelled, as it seems was done in this auction. Some things get relabelled as completely different products than what the die is. Some packages a re cleaned and relabelled to look new. Some things are repackaged. Some things probably don't even have die in the package. I bought a very cheap compared to elsewhere Bluray drive off Ebay, claiming to be whatever brand/model, but all the brand/model labelling on the thing was blacked out. Looks like it had said what I would expect it to, as you could sortof make out the original labelling through the censor blocks, but I do have to assume this was a factory reject salvaged by the seller, which is another popular counterfeit practice. It worked OK as a reader and to burn DVD disks, never have put a blank bluray disk in it, and now that laptop has died so I'll have to get an external case for the drive to find out. In time, I won't really trust any ebay from China stuff, though it looks like that auction was located in USA.
-
Well yes, they do blow away the 020/030 but you won't be putting a 060 in their sockets ;D
The XC chips are not qualified parts, basically motorola is sorting them to find the fully working ones to mark as MC/RC. Many XC's were fully working with MMU and FPU. Supposedly when motorola was low on EC chips they would remark the XC or RC parts,so its possible some EC's are full chips,but i have not run across any yet.The fakes do have a MMU but no FPU.
If you want the best one,look for the MC prefix and RC as fully qualified.
If you look close on the fakes you can see their printing is not very good and the color is a bit off.
Mech
Sure! If they are cheap.
An LC060 still blows away a lame 030 or 020!
How much are these LC060s selling for?
Not required.
Did these chips have an MMU?
BTW: u can never trust the markings of any 060 100%. You must always test the chip to see if it really has an MMU or FPU.
For example: The 060 in my A1200 has markings that indicate no MMU.
Yet the chip really does have a working mmu!
For some ppl (like me) a MMU is more valuable than an FPU.
-
I bought these cpu's knowing there was a 95% change they were fake. I wasn't worried about getting my money back because paypal and ebay protect buyers well,and worst case my credit card company would of went after him if needed. Of course on the off chance i was wrong and they were real then WOO HOO!
Unfortunately they were fake. i had my money back in 3 days,so it was worth a try.
You are right though bill, it is becoming a really bad problem. Its why i try and mainly deal with certified chip brokers that test the parts.It seems any parts worth anything are being faked these days.
Another sad thing is our beloved motorola parts with gold in them are all being scrapped by the toms now since the price of gold is up. All the gold chips amiga people need etc will become scarce soon.
They are getting more clever at pushing their fake goods, many of the china sellers establish someone in the usa to use as a shell ebay seller.
Your bluray experience is a perfect example.
Mech
I'm not really surprised that this finally bit one of us. And I expect the situation to only get worse. Coutnerfeit semiconductors has become a huge problem. I think sometime last year newegg dropped one of their suppliers because customers were getting fake chips that were nothing more than poor die-cast molds of CPU chips, expensive ones. The fan inlcuded was little more than a plastic block with a sticker on it. Counterfeit parts have affected how big companies do purchasing, with new industries coming up to provide verification services. Some fakes are simply pulls marked as new parts. Some things get relabelled, as it seems was done in this auction. Some things get relabelled as completely different products than what the die is. Some packages a re cleaned and relabelled to look new. Some things are repackaged. Some things probably don't even have die in the package. I bought a very cheap compared to elsewhere Bluray drive off Ebay, claiming to be whatever brand/model, but all the brand/model labelling on the thing was blacked out. Looks like it had said what I would expect it to, as you could sortof make out the original labelling through the censor blocks, but I do have to assume this was a factory reject salvaged by the seller, which is another popular counterfeit practice. It worked OK as a reader and to burn DVD disks, never have put a blank bluray disk in it, and now that laptop has died so I'll have to get an external case for the drive to find out. In time, I won't really trust any ebay from China stuff, though it looks like that auction was located in USA.
-
My 060 is an X and it has both MMU and FPU fully working.
-
Would these 68LC060s be OK for the FPGA Arcade's daughter board? If so, I might snag them and then pass them on to Jakub for the boards or sell them at cost to other FPGA Arcade customers.
My original intention was to do something similar. I thought if I got them cheap I could sell them onto Mike/Jakub at a reduced price and this would bring down the cost of the 68060 accelerator for the Replay.
I think if anyone here is interested in bidding on these chips here at Amiga.org, then it would be a good idea to declare that interest here so that we don't end up with a few people from AO all bidding against each other and driving up the price by 300% unnecessarily. If a few folks are interested, perhaps one can bid and then share some of the proceeds with the others?
-
My original intention was to do something similar. I thought if I got them cheap I could sell them onto Mike/Jakub at a reduced price and this would bring down the cost of the 68060 accelerator for the Replay.
I think if anyone here is interested in bidding on these chips here at Amiga.org, then it would be a good idea to declare that interest here so that we don't end up with a few people from AO all bidding against each other and driving up the price by 300% unnecessarily. If a few folks are interested, perhaps one can bid and then share some of the proceeds with the others?
I agree.
Do you have a bid in at the moment?
I would like to have some sort of response from MikeJ or Jakub on whether these CPUs are suitable. If that's the case then I'm more than happy to provide the winning bid myself. Any idea what a fair price for 10 of these things is? Assuming they are suitable then I don't see a problem distributing them. If we take one each then that leaves 8 and at the current bid I don't see a problem offloading them at around $10 each.
Edit: Oh bugger! It has ended. :(
-
For example: The 060 in my A1200 has markings that indicate no MMU.
Yet the chip really does have a working mmu!
My 060 is an X and it has both MMU and FPU fully working.
CPU manufacturers sometimes mark processors which have a feature as not having that feature. This is (or at least was) done for a couple of reasons. Sometimes samples from a batch would have a functional core, but a feature such as the FPU wouldn't pass tests, so they couldn't sell it as having that feature. Another reason is it was more cost effective at some point to just make the full featured chip but sell it as not having the feature.
So, you might find chips which are marked as not having a feature which actually do have it. But I doubt you'll find a chip from a reputable manufacturer marked as having a feature which it doesn't have. In this case of this auction it seems like the chips are knockoffs or have been relabeled.
-
Any idea how much gold there actually is in such a CPU?
I think that the gold value may be less that the CPU value in case of the 68060.
-
Any idea how much gold there actually is in such a CPU?
I think that the gold value may be less that the CPU value in case of the 68060.
I suspect a hell of a lot less. I hope these CPUs don't end up in the hands of someone who will try and melt the gold plating off them.
-
They are listed again (assuming these are the same processors)...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1lb-0-4oz-Gold-Recovery-CPUS-Processors-10PCS-/260936891502?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc10cfc6e#ht_500wt_1180
-
They are listed again (assuming these are the same processors)...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1lb-0-4oz-Gold-Recovery-CPUS-Processors-10PCS-/260936891502?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc10cfc6e#ht_500wt_1180
AH thanks for that.
I hope this is another batch of 10 and that he isn't trying to sell the same chips to multiple people.
-
An LC060 still blows away a lame 030 or 020!
Thank you for calling other peoples stuff (including my own) 'lame', it's greatly appreciated :(
-
I would like to have some sort of response from MikeJ or Jakub on whether these CPUs are suitable.
Don't bother with them. Get the real thing.
-
They are listed again (assuming these are the same processors)...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1lb-0-4oz-Gold-Recovery-CPUS-Processors-10PCS-/260936891502?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc10cfc6e#ht_500wt_1180
He had 40 cpu's with straight pins and a bunch supposedly with smashed pins. he seems to just be selling them in lots of 10.
mech
-
If these were true MC/RC parts and 71e41J mask they would be worth way more than the gold recovery.
As they are they aren't very usefull. It takes alot of these cpu's to make any substantial gold. they dissolve the gold off in a chemical process then separate it out of the "soup" as i understand it.
Sadly since the value of gold is going so high we will start seeing all of our cool old motorola chips(and other gold) being tossed for scrap now.
They will become scarce now :(
Any idea how much gold there actually is in such a CPU?
I think that the gold value may be less that the CPU value in case of the 68060.
-
Thank you for calling other peoples stuff (including my own) 'lame', it's greatly appreciated :(
I have '020s and '030s, and compared to my '060s they are lame. They work and do a job, but still lame in comparison IMHO :p
-
Are these likely to be any good?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260618840054?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1948wt_1064
-
Am curious i have 2 060 cpus here came with buggered blizzard 2060 board to brought locally of auction site i was told that cpus chould been installed wrong way around
And the lgoic chip needed reprograming on the board apprently only cde can do this
I emailed them no rpley dam germans hehe
curious does anyone think they chould be good still , i also brought one of ebay donkeys
ago and was solidered to circuit baord just cut of roughly yikes was cheap though should know <
friend who runs elctronics biz said be job getting solider of the pins so never
Bothered just left in its case wasint a amiga sourced 060 was like ec version
Love to get board fixed looks mint toying with idea sending to amiga france
I emailed him year ago just havent got courage to do it , its long way to send something
-
If you are in .NZ, You might send them to anthony hoffman at Christchurch,NZ. His site is amiga.serveftp.net i bet he could fix them if possible and at a min. shed some light on if they are fixable.
Mech
Am curious i have 2 060 cpus here came with buggered blizzard 2060 board to brought locally of auction site i was told that cpus chould been installed wrong way around
And the lgoic chip needed reprograming on the board apprently only cde can do this
I emailed them no rpley dam germans hehe
curious does anyone think they chould be good still , i also brought one of ebay donkeys
ago and was solidered to circuit baord just cut of roughly yikes was cheap though should know <
friend who runs elctronics biz said be job getting solider of the pins so never
Bothered just left in its case wasint a amiga sourced 060 was like ec version
Love to get board fixed looks mint toying with idea sending to amiga france
I emailed him year ago just havent got courage to do it , its long way to send something
-
Don't bother with them. Get the real thing.
Cheers. Thanks for the heads up.
Do you know if Mike managed to source any to sell with any production run? These things on their own seem to be like hen's teeth.
-
Are these likely to be any good?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260618840054?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1948wt_1064
Those are the early 060's they work fine,but run warm (01f43g mask)
as for the particular ebay seller, your guess is as good as mine ;)
Looking at his feedback,people have had some problems with his stuff so you probably have a 50/50 chance :)
Mech
-
Any idea how much gold there actually is in such a CPU?
I think that the gold value may be less that the CPU value in case of the 68060.
Honestly i doubt enough to make worth while i know these things cost they make out pure gold at the time well even know silly prices.. but yeah right gold pated pns maybe but be dam thin . i used to work as elecroplater chrome brass and know the biz well.
Nickel etc
-
If you are in .NZ, You might send them to anthony hoffman at Christchurch,NZ. His site is amiga.serveftp.net i bet he could fix them if possible and at a min. shed some light on if they are fixable.
Mech
thanks i got 2 machines booked to go see him yes am postive anthony looked at this board
from person sold to me bit nasty selling something you know to be had it .
athought to be far didnt pay very much for it .. but money down toilet is money down the toilet if its just paper weight , 10 bucks 1 dollor no point buying rubbish
he one said it need reprograming and as only dce have those codes it got fat chance being fixed bit waste really . i put pic up of the board looks brand new maybe never went ?
Mind you think test them before left the factory